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Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop arrives Thursday starting at $2,999 - Page 3

post #81 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

But I already have a trashcan in my office... lol.gif
That might have been clever and/or funny last June. Now it's just annoying.
post #82 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Any chance of having new Apple displays announced tomorrow as well?

Normally I'd say anything is possible, but after adding that Sharp panel to the Store the other day I think this is wishful thinking. Sure would hope they'd release their own: I love large screens (I use the 30" ACD) and when not in use they have a prominent place in homes. But only Apple makes their monitors nice looking.
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post #83 of 296

You have flying squirrels attaching your chimney? Cool, I only get pidgeons, have to get myself an upgrade!

post #84 of 296
When will they be in the stores? I want to see one.
post #85 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

 

And where's the Haswell Mini?

 

Heh, you're assuming there will be one...

post #86 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


That might have been clever and/or funny last June. Now it's just annoying.


No, no, it's still pretty funny.

post #87 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

Why no fusion drive? 1TB is way too little. I'm not complaining, but this really marks the end of the expandable Mac.

Yeah except for the petabytes of directly attached storage it can easily support, what will we do.

Edit: To answer your first question, look at the picture of the inside on the apple site and then tell us where you would put the 3.5" drive.
Edited by Wovel - 12/18/13 at 11:43am
post #88 of 296

Did I read that correctly...9.9" tall???

 

This thing is going to be a hair taller than an iPad?  Unbelievable.

post #89 of 296

"Fusion Drive" is just a name used by Apple's marketing team, it just refers to hybrid drives that include SSD for caching HDD data. The connector can be whatever the manufacturers design it to be, it is in no way limited to SATA. I only used the term Fusion, because that's what Apple calls it.

 

Either you don't know what you are talking about, or you think that I don't know what I'm talking about, either way your assertions are incomplete at best and flat out wrong otherwise.

Lastly, an "expandable" machine is most commonly used to denote a computer who's internal components can be swapped/upgraded. An external device is almost never considered an expansion, but more of an add-on. If you consider external devices to be expansions, then you can expand your iPod by buying a second iPod.

 

Anybody who know the technical details of how computers are designed and built will see right through your claims.
 

I'm not trolling though so why be so defensive? I just miss the days where pro users had the ability to modify their own pro machines.

 

I don't 'want' a hackintosh but that's the only option in some cases now, pun intended.

post #90 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wovel View Post


Yeah except for the petabytes of directly attached storage it can easily support, what will we do.

Edit: To answer your first question, look at the picture of the inside on the apple site and then tell us where you would put the 3.5" drive.

"Directly attached storage", that's a nice way to say external hard drive...

 

I'll let an image make my point for me:

post #91 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post
 

"Directly attached storage", that's a nice way to say external hard drive...

 

I'll let an image make my point for me:

 

One 5 bay Thunderbolt enclosure doesn't add that much mess.  There's no reason they spec'd out individual enclosures for every damn thing in that picture.

post #92 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creep View Post

Did I read that correctly...9.9" tall???

This thing is going to be a hair taller than an iPad?  Unbelievable.

You read it incorrectly. It's going to be 9.9' tall, and renamed Door Mac; code named Round Tower.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #93 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

"Directly attached storage", that's a nice way to say external hard drive...

I'll let an image make my point for me:

Hyperbole is one thing but that pic simply isn't close to being reasonable.

Why would you have a DVD drive and Blu-ray drive and feel the need for the new Mac Pro?
Why would you consider buying a Mac Pro when you have all this old gear?
Why doesn't the old Mac Pro show any cables at all?
Why would you have all those cable coiled up on the desk next to the new Mac Pro?

People made the same silly argument with notebook v. desktops and notebooks v. tablets yet people flock to notebooks and tablets, respectively, for what they can do, not because they can't do something they aren't suppose to do.

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post #94 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by iw16w8sH0v View Post

How quick do we see a new monitor get released? You would think TB2 and a slim down would be in order not to mention a 4k option.

Apple might be waiting for panel prices to drop.
post #95 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

They were wonderius beasts indeed. Remember the fun writing postscript manually to make crazy images? 1biggrin.gif

PostScript used to be easy. Then they messed it up by adding all those extra features in 2 and 3.
post #96 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

We Apple Centre owners loved people like you. 1biggrin.gif

I'm so relieved to hear that. It made it all worthwhile. I still have the thing in my attic.
post #97 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

My first reaction was: where is he going to get a minicomputer?

Ha!

Then I remembered a talk by Guy Kawasaki where he described the dilemma facing a customer choosing between a microcomputer and a minicomputer.. He said the guy just sat there -- in one hand was his Apple and in the other hand was his Wang.

I'm not sure if I should reprimand or congratulate you for that statement. ???
post #98 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

"Directly attached storage", that's a nice way to say external hard drive...

I'll let an image make my point for me:

That picture makes me laugh.

I've seen existing Mac Pros with just as many external devices. Go to any production house... cables everywhere... already.

Plus... external devices are sometimes preferable because you can easily use them with multiple machines... especially laptops.

I find it hilarious that they included audio/video interfaces in that image. Those thing are external. You want to be able to access them easily.

How would you put this inside a Mac Pro?

post #99 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I find it hilarious that they included audio/video interfaces in that image. Those thing are external. You want to be able to access them easily.

Is that what that is? It's even more ridiculous knowing that.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #100 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
 

 

One 5 bay Thunderbolt enclosure doesn't add that much mess.  There's no reason they spec'd out individual enclosures for every damn thing in that picture.

 

And... how much does a decent 5 bay thunderbolt enclosure cost? 599$ used? I am looking at the Drobo 5D myself... looks pretty sweet, but for a pro machine one must ask why we need to purchase Hard drive enclosures at all, computers used to be all the hard drive enclosures you need.
My only point was that Apple decided to consumerize a Pro machine by making it 'smaller' and 'sleeker'. Don't get me wrong, it's hot! But someone who needs that much power, and can afford the price tag, will typically expect to not have to buy another 1000$ device just for storage, Hard drives NOT included. Am I completely wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Hyperbole is one thing but that pic simply isn't close to being reasonable.

Why would you have a DVD drive and Blu-ray drive and feel the need for the new Mac Pro?
Why would you consider buying a Mac Pro when you have all this old gear?
Why doesn't the old Mac Pro show any cables at all?
Why would you have all those cable coiled up on the desk next to the new Mac Pro?

People made the same silly argument with notebook v. desktops and notebooks v. tablets yet people flock to notebooks and tablets, respectively, for what they can do, not because they can't do something they aren't suppose to do.

 

-To explain the picture a little bit more, it tries to show two equivalent systems, one using the old Mac Pro as a base and the other a new. The old Mac pro had a DVD drive, as well as an expansion bay that you could add a second one (bluray, whatever) two. Without which these would not be equivalent. I agree though, for the most part physical media like CDs and DVDs are dead.

-Why would they buy a new mac pro if they had all that equipment? Ummm... to upgrade? But that's not the point of this image, it is just comparing equivalently 'expanded' systems in terms of capability, not specs.

-Why doesn't the old mac pro show any cables? Because all that stuff is INSIDE of it. You don't see the power cable behind the new one either, this comparison seems perfectly fair to me.
-"Why would you have all those cable coiled up on the desk next to the new Mac Pro?" On the desk, under the desk, whatever, you need cables to plug all that stuff in. Remember the original bondi blue iMac commercial where they who making fun of PC's because of how many cables you needed? yeah....
 

Finally, tablets vs laptops vs desktops... Consumers are snapping up tablets and laptops, professionals need powerful machines that can be upgraded and expanded. Having to upgrade and expand using external components has NEVER been an advantage. Sure it's possible, and with thunderbolt it's going to be a lot less detrimental to performance, but that's not the point. People who need the most power and abilities possible are not well served by machines that have soldiered components that used to be user replaceable.
It's on heck of a machine, but a package that could handle a 3.5" drive would have been nice...

Can Apple fans not even be critical anymore?

post #101 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Since I have spare money and put nothing on my Christmas list, perhaps I should pick one of the new nMP to replace my 2011 iMac - which top-notch yet reasonably-priced 27" display could I find?

I read somewhere that, under Mavericks, you can interconnect 2 (or more) Thunderbolt Macs using: System Preferences--->Network--->Thunderbolt Bridge.

If this works as I understand it, you could use your 2011 iMac as a interim display for the New Mac Pro -- until Apple releases new displays.

I only have 1 Thunderbolt Mac (a 2011 iMac) so I can't test it.

I already have 2 Pegasus 12 TB Raids & Planed to buy a New Mac Pro and TB Display... but I think I will try to use the iMac, as above, until I can buy an Apple 4K display.

As an alternative, I have an old 23" Cinema Display that works fine connected to the TB port with a MiniDisplay Adapter.
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post #102 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


I read somewhere that, under Mavericks, you can interconnect 2 (or more) Thunderbolt Macs using: System Preferences--->Network--->Thunderbolt Bridge.

If this works as I understand it, you could use your 2011 iMac as a interim display for the New Mac Pro -- until Apple releases new displays.

I only have 1 Thunderbolt Mac (a 2011 iMac) so I can't test it.

I already have 2 Pegasus 12 TB Raids & Planed to buy a New Mac Pro and TB Display... but I think I will try to use the iMac, as above, until I can buy an Apple 4K display.

As an alternative, I have an old 23" Cinema Display that works fine connected to the TB port with a MiniDisplay Adapter.

 

That sounds indeed like an interesting proposition - but how would the iMac itself behave while the display is being used by the nMP? Sort of like in Firewire target mode (i.e., inactive otherwise)?

 

Edit: this link seems to have all the answers:

 

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3924?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US#1

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post #103 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

-To explain the picture a little bit more, it tries to show two equivalent systems, one using the old Mac Pro as a base and the other a new. The old Mac pro had a DVD drive, as well as an expansion bay that you could add a second one (blurry, whatever) two. Without which these would not be equivalent. I agree though, for the most part physical media like CDs and DVDs are dead.
-Why would they buy a new mac pro if they had all that equipment? Ummm... to upgrade? But that's not the point of this image, it is just comparing equivalently 'expanded' systems in terms of capability, not specs.

How is it fair if you use a bunch of equipment that isn't relevant for today's average Mac Pro buyer? I could do the same thing with an old Power Mac since the old tower Mac Pro doesn't support a lot of the old interconnects and I doubt there are many PCIe cards that will support them and if they do likely not have Mac drivers.
Quote:
-Why doesn't the old mac pro show any cables? Because all that stuff is INSIDE of it. You don't see the power cable behind the new one either, this comparison seems perfectly fair to me.
-"Why would you have all those cable coiled up on the desk next to the new Mac Pro?" On the desk, under the desk, whatever, you need cables to plug all that stuff in. Remember the original bondi blue iMac commercial where they who making fun of PC's because of how many cables you needed? yeah....

If that isn't a surge protecter and power cables all bundled together then what are they? Why are the cables are coiled up next to each other anyway except to make it looks like crap? How about putting that old Mac Pro on a desk next to a display, wireless mouse and keyboard and comparing it to the new Mac Pro? It would be comparatively loud and look really silly as it's not designed for that, just like it's silly to buy to notebooks and rack mount them or carry a rack mounted server in a bag to plug in at Starbucks.
Quote:
Finally, tablets vs laptops vs desktops... Consumers are snapping up tablets and laptops, professionals need powerful machines that can be upgraded and expanded. Having to upgrade and expand using external components has NEVER been an advantage. Sure it's possible, and with thunderbolt it's going to be a lot less detrimental to performance, but that's not the point. People who need the most power and abilities possible are not well served by machines that have soldiered components that are used to be user replaceable.

I had no intention in buying a Mac Pro with internal SATA HDDs and pointless expansion that very few buyers ever seem to utilize but this new one piques my interest. Is it my interests that you think are invalid or are you saying Apple doesn't know what people are doing with their Mac Pros when they decided to make one with PCIe SSDs and versatile, almost endless expansion as opposed to limited, internal expansion in a large, heavy case? Do you think it will be a failure?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #104 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Creep View Post

Did I read that correctly...9.9" tall???

This thing is going to be a hair taller than an iPad?  Unbelievable.



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post #105 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winter View Post

That's incredible when you think about it. You really tricked out your system. Things are so cheap these days because the dollar has shrunk in value over the decades. It no longer means as much as it used to.

Also maybe on Thursday they silently update the Mac mini : D

I was doing commercial photo imaging work. It was some of the overflow from my company.

Things were even more amazing on the high end color part of our business. We had four Barco studio graphics monitors: $16,000....each! Also six Barco Personal monitors at $4,000 each. For lessor work we used 21" Apple studio monitors. They used to be called the poor mans' Barco.

In those days money was nothing for a commercial photo lab. Our clients expected the best. Nowadays, lots of those doing color work have no idea as what they need to be doing. Often, they find spending more than a thousand bucks for a monitor to be too much. And they work in a bright room with the sun to their backs!

I can't even imagine it.
post #106 of 296

You girls really need to calm down...
The Mac Pros have never been a success story, and I'm not saying this one is crap. I am just saying I wish it could store more than 256GB of data without breaking the bank; it maxes out at 1TB which is not sufficient for anyone dealing with HD video, certainly not 4K. What this means is that this machine, as is, is NOT enough for a serious professional, they will absolutely have to buy more stuff just to make it useable, and that is why it will never gain much traction. Apple is great at providing the whole package, but the Mac Pro falls short of that.

 

Regarding onboard storage, I said the same thing about the new Macbook Pros and to be perfectly honest, that is why I finally decided against buying one. 256GB isn't enough to do anything serious and for a portable system, the whole point is to not need external devices.
The Mac Pro is not exactly supposed to be portable, but then why make it so damn tiny, add an inch and we could have had 4TB internally...

 

I hope the new Mac Pro goes one to become a huge success... but am I not allowed to express my opinion regarding it's standard and then maximum storage capacity? Sheesh...

post #107 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

My first reaction was: where is he going to get a minicomputer?

Ha!

Then I remembered a talk by Guy Kawasaki where he described the dilemma facing a customer choosing between a microcomputer and a minicomputer.. He said the guy just sat there -- in one hand was his Apple and in the other hand was his Wang.

I'm not sure if I should reprimand or congratulate you for that statement. ???

Just quoting (paraphrasing) Guy...

My wife, Lucy, who managed our computer stores called him Kawabunga... to his face... Guy was a fun person to deal with...
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post #108 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Ha! I used to own a NeXTStation Turbo Color.......cost me over $15,000 back then.

Funny you should mention it. I was considering the neXT. But when I went to look at it I was told that it came in three configurations. greyscale, for $8,000. 16 bit color for $16,000, and 24 bit color for $24,000, I asked if a lower model was upgradable to the higher one, but was told no. What you bought was what you had. I decided to pass.
post #109 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


That sounds indeed like an interesting proposition - but how would the iMac itself behave while the display is being used by the nMP? Sort of like in Firewire target mode (i.e., inactive otherwise)?

Edit: this link seems to have all the answers:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3924?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US#1

That link describes TB TDM -- I think that the TB Bridge is different. I got the impression that the iMac acts as an iMac and as a display for the mMP through the magic of Mavericks.


If someone has 2 TB Macs they could check it out -- a TB iMac connected to a TB Mini (as proxy for the nMP). Whew!
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post #110 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

Why no fusion drive? 1TB is way too little. I'm not complaining, but this really marks the end of the expandable Mac.

Most workstations for animation, video, and even high end Photoshop work use network storage of some sort. Often, even the software is on the network. So significant local storage isn't required. But fast network communications is, which is why the Mac Pro has always had two Ethernet network connections. With so many Thunderbolt 2 connectors (6), you can really max out your drive speed.

The same for most scientific research. Non local storage has been the way to go. Given that, it's much better having a small powerful device on the workstation with the storage elsewhere.

If you want it all in one unit, then you're not a potential customer for this.
post #111 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That's a good option! I've seen the 27" iMac in an Apple Store, and the reflection is too much for my taste, even though they got better, less glossy, over time.

Heh heh! Get two suction cups and remove the glass. I just did that to replace the HDD in my wife's iMac. Removing the glass takes five seconds. Doesn't look as nice, but what the heck, we're men, right?
post #112 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


That link describes TB TDM -- I think that the TB Bridge is different. I got the impression that the iMac acts as an iMac and as a display for the mMP through the magic of Mavericks.


If someone has 2 TB Macs they could check it out -- a TB iMac connected to a TB Mini (as proxy for the nMP). Whew!

 

But TBB has nothing to do with what we're talking about here - my only goal would be to use the iMac as an external display under TDM...or am I missing something?

 

A negative point about TDM: you can't use the iMac's built-in camera with the nMP.

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post #113 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Quoting Wikipedia:

"Its theoretical performance was thus 160 MIPS
 (80 MHz x 2 instructions), although there were a few limitations that made floating point
performance generally about 136 MFLOPS. However, by using vector instructions carefully and building useful chains, the system could peak at 250 MFLOPS."

So really the iPhone 5 is the proper comparison clocking in at around 365 MFlops on linpack.  CPU only I think…the GPU numbers are of course much higher and perhaps more in line with the peak numbers for the Cray 1 using vector instructions.

Slower than I remember. Which one did a gigaflops?
post #114 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I had no intention in buying a Mac Pro with internal SATA HDDs and pointless expansion that very few buyers ever seem to utilize but this new one piques my interest. Is it my interests that you think are invalid or are you saying Apple doesn't know what people are doing with their Mac Pros when they decided to make one with PCIe SSDs and versatile, almost endless expansion as opposed to limited, internal expansion in a large, heavy case? Do you think it will be a failure?


Right on!

I think that in today's market Apple realizes that building an empty box with a lot of expansion capability is of little benefit to Apple. Customers would populate the box with non-apple drives, adapters, etc.

Better, IMO, to go with the new philosophy of external expansion -- with advantages of modularity, configuration flexibility, interchangeability, portability.

I think the TB Bridge supports IP over TB so, shared external devices may be possible too...
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post #115 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitbat View Post

You have flying squirrels attaching your chimney? Cool, I only get pidgeons, have to get myself an upgrade!

Nah, they jump from the trees. But you hear the pigeons through the fireplace (which my wife refuses to allow me to light a fire in.) so I keep an extra subwoofer in.
post #116 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

One 5 bay Thunderbolt enclosure doesn't add that much mess.  There's no reason they spec'd out individual enclosures for every damn thing in that picture.

You've got admit though, it's funny.
post #117 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post
 

"Directly attached storage", that's a nice way to say external hard drive...

 

I'll let an image make my point for me:

 

Wonderful, and hey, this is not to depict reality, it is to bring home a point in humorous manner.

 

And regarding this picture I totally agree that despite all the many good things about the new Mac Pro its design is a a prime example for narcissistic minimalism gone wrong. Clutter is one thing and will be there to a certain extent, but if you ever had to work with audio, you'd appreciate quietude. And that is exactly what is in danger if you have to put everything into external enclosures. No matter how much Apple is proud of their quiet "one-fan" design. Chances are, the additional fans are sitting right next to it and most manufacturers do not care about noise pollution. And on that note, and not that I would ever want a PC, but there is a company called Deltatronic that builds 12-core systems with internal hard drives and space for more with NO fan whatsoever. Yes, they weigh a bit more, are a bit larger, but it's a desktop machine after all and not a lapcan.

post #118 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fruitbat View Post

You have flying squirrels attaching your chimney? Cool, I only get pidgeons, have to get myself an upgrade!

Nah, they jump from the trees. But you hear the pigeons through the fireplace (which my wife refuses to allow me to light a fire in.) so I keep an extra subwoofer in.

All this bird talk...

When we lived in Tucson, we had a built-in metal fireplace. The whole thing was metal from the firebox all the way up to the roof vent.

Then, one day, a woodpecker landed on the fireplace roof vent...
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post #119 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

You girls really need to calm down...

The Mac Pros have never been a success story, and I'm not saying this one is crap. I am just saying I wish it could store more than 256GB of data without breaking the bank; it maxes out at 1TB which is not sufficient for anyone dealing with HD video, certainly not 4K. What this means is that this machine, as is, is NOT enough for a serious professional, they will absolutely have to buy more stuff just to make it useable, and that is why it will never gain much traction. Apple is great at providing the whole package, but the Mac Pro falls short of that.

Regarding onboard storage, I said the same thing about the new Macbook Pros and to be perfectly honest, that is why I finally decided against buying one. 256GB isn't enough to do anything serious and for a portable system, the whole point is to not need external devices.

The Mac Pro is not exactly supposed to be portable, but then why make it so damn tiny, add an inch and we could have had 4TB internally...

I hope the new Mac Pro goes one to become a huge success... but am I not allowed to express my opinion regarding it's standard and then maximum storage capacity? Sheesh...

You can express any opinion you want to. It doesn't mean that others will agree with you. But as for success, well, I don't know. How do you measur success in an expensive high end pro product? Apple used to sell between 250 thousand and a million PowerMac G5's and Mac Pro's a year. Is that a failure?

Every hundred thousand in sales at an average price of $5,000 would be a half a billion a year of a highly profitable sale. That seems like a success. Well known competitors such as Boxx sell about a $billion in workstations a year. It's their entire business.
post #120 of 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alienzed View Post

You girls really need to calm down...
The Mac Pros have never been a success story, and I'm not saying this one is crap. I am just saying I wish it could store more than 256GB of data without breaking the bank; it maxes out at 1TB which is not sufficient for anyone dealing with HD video, certainly not 4K. What this means is that this machine, as is, is NOT enough for a serious professional, they will absolutely have to buy more stuff just to make it useable, and that is why it will never gain much traction. Apple is great at providing the whole package, but the Mac Pro falls short of that.

Regarding onboard storage, I said the same thing about the new Macbook Pros and to be perfectly honest, that is why I finally decided against buying one. 256GB isn't enough to do anything serious and for a portable system, the whole point is to not need external devices.

The Mac Pro is not exactly supposed to be portable, but then why make it so damn tiny, add an inch and we could have had 4TB internally...

I hope the new Mac Pro goes one to become a huge success... but am I not allowed to express my opinion regarding it's standard and then maximum storage capacity? Sheesh...

1) Calling us girls for disagreeing with you doesn't help your argument.

2) Why haven't they been a success? It's a long running product that has used pretty much the same case design since the PowerPC days. It's now it's been reimagined for today's market and technology. Not outselling iDevices does not a failure make.

3) Why would you think Apple expects you to "deal with HD video" on that internal SSD? Would any true video professional working in HD and wanting redundancy really have enough with 4 internal disks?

4) So editing HD video is the only way a professional is serious? Don't limit your scope to such a myopic video of the Mac Pro market.

5) Are you really saying "serious professionals" never had to "buy more stuff" with the old style Mac Pro? You're the one that showed an image that had a Forte A/V interface!

6) I only wanted 128GB of storage on my 15" MBP but I wanted the dGPU so I had to get the 512GB SSD. C'est la vie. I don't need it but I had the option to not buy it. I do have lots of video stored, but I keep that on a separate RAID. It's FW400 and connected to a 10 year old iMac. The first iMac flatscreen; you know. the round base wi the swivel heads. Just yesterday I was finally able to get OS X Leopard Server on it so now I can use that FW attached RAID for Time Machine backups in my house. I could have bought a used Mac mini and it would have been so much easier but I wanted to find a use for this older HW and so I did. Perhaps you should consider what you have with your Mac Pro instead of complaining Apple didn't continue going down a dead-end path to suit your specific needs.

7) There are plenty of reasons why smaller, lighter, and lower-power non-mobile devices can save money for buyers and earn money for vendors.

8) Again, you have your opinion but please state it as such. I clearly said the MBP I bought was exactly what was ideal for my specific needs but I found the solution available and moved on. Remember, it's Apple's choice to make what they think will benefit their bottom line best, not yours or mine.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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