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Shares of Apple dip on lack of China Mobile deal, supplier's disappointing earnings - Page 2

post #41 of 53

So professional stock analysts really are no better than an monkey throwing a dart at a dart board. I knew it.

post #42 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

I don't understand how the Wall Street Journal would be allowed to get away with giving out false information and yet Apple does nothing about it to squash those rumors.  Apple should just slap them with a lawsuit to prevent such things from happening in the future.  I don't know why anyone from the WSJ isn't being held responsible for writing articles gleaned from unsubstantiated sources.  The news media has absolutely no fear of retaliation from Apple and I have to blame Tim Cook for this.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post
 

In order to win a lawsuit against the media for presenting a story that has false information requires more than just showing that the information is false.  You have to show that they had good reason to know it was false, and that's often a very hard thing to do when the press doesn't have to identify its sources.  Even if you can show that the publisher should have known the info was false, often you also have to prove malicious intent.  We can speculate that this indeed happened, but you have to prove it.

 

For these reasons, and more, Apple won't ever sue for this.  One good other reason is precedence.  From that point on, every time a negative article came out containing either false information and/or false conclusions, if Apple didn't complain it would be viewed as confirmation.  As Steve figured out over a decade ago, you're better off letting the truth prevail in the long run.  What's a few more months for the truth to come out?

 

On the flip side of things, you imply that if Apple started suing (and hopefully winning) that the manipulation would decrease.  I don't think so.  It is far too easy to write a speculative piece that makes it clear you are not 100% sure, but still tank or pump the stock.  This will protect you from repercussions.  

 

The bottom line is that Apple is more vulnerable than Amazon, or Google, or most other names because it chooses to hold its cards close to its vest and because its main sources of revenue (now iPhone and iPad) are perceived by enough investors/traders (not me) as in danger of being knocked down a notch at a moment's notice.  Perfect conditions for rumors to have large impact.  You can't say that about either Amazon (nearly unassailable internet retail king) or Google (nearly unassailable search revenue king via advertising).  So I don't care what CEO Apple has or what lawsuits they throw, as long as their business strategy remains the same, they will be subject to what you see here.

 

Thompson

 
Well said, Thompson.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

You'd better believe no one would do this sort of thing with CEO Jeff Bezos' company, Amazon.

Of course they would, if there was any money in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

Tim Cook is worse than a wet noodle when it comes to protecting shareholders...Apple stock is going absolutely nowhere with Tim Cook at the helm.  I'm really concerned when a stock can be moved so much by mere rumors.  There just seems to be so much wrong with a company like that.  The only positive thing about Apple's share price drop today is that if Apple is still buying back shares, then today would be a fine day to buy them back.

 

Talk about conflicted! Constable Odo can't see the forest for the trees. Apple buying back shares is exactly why these little ups and downs in the stock market won't be hurting the long term AAPL holder. It's a genius move and it came about because Tim Cook is at the helm.

post #43 of 53
So the market rallies on Fed news; Amazon and Google way up, even Microsoft ended the day slightly up after being down close to 2% but Apple ended the day down over $4, even with another firm raising their price target. I'd like to believe Apple will get the last laugh when they report earnings next month but even if they kill it the stock will probably not move much and Wall Street will find something in the numbers to be D&G about. 1rolleyes.gif
post #44 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

And yet the broader market rallied on Fed news (Amazon was up over 2%).
post #45 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayTed View Post

While Amazon doesn't make much profits, they have built up a huge business. When they start to stop expanding a lot, the profits will be huge then.
How exactly does Amazon turn on the profit fire hose?

I've never understood this argument that it's ok for Amazon to not be profitable because they're plowing all their profits back in to the business. And once they're done with that the profits will just be gushing out. How is it that other companies seem to be able to be profitable and still spend money on R&D, infrastructure, etc.? And is all the stuff Amazon is "plowing back into the business" really stuff that's expensed right away vs being amortized and depreciated over time? Someone help me out here.
post #46 of 53

Folks - Please take a look at: 

 

http://service.zj.10086.cn/iphone5s/index.jsp?AISSO_LOGIN=true

 

Key Facts from this site: 

- They are outright listing the iPhone 5S on the china mobile site

- They are saying the reservation process takes place from December 18 to December 31st

 

@Raymond - You are an idiot

post #47 of 53
It seems pretty obvious China Mobile want to announce the deal themselves as a surprise, hence the denials. Wall Street, as per usual, are total morons.
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post #48 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How exactly does Amazon turn on the profit fire hose?

I've never understood this argument that it's ok for Amazon to not be profitable because they're plowing all their profits back in to the business. And once they're done with that the profits will just be gushing out. How is it that other companies seem to be able to be profitable and still spend money on R&D, infrastructure, etc.? And is all the stuff Amazon is "plowing back into the business" really stuff that's expensed right away vs being amortized and depreciated over time? Someone help me out here.

It's magic Amazon fairy dust. 1wink.gif

Meanwhile I plough my money into APPL a company that actually makes billions in profit.

Not that I don't love Amazon, they are my second favorite company, I just don't own any stock yet.

EDIT ... that should have been 'ploughed' not 'plough' I got in early, although a lot of the dividends auto repurchase.
Edited by digitalclips - 12/19/13 at 5:00pm
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post #49 of 53

On days like this I'm glad I sold all my Apple during the conference call last January.  Apple is a great company but it also a 500B market cap company.  You have to sustain a lot of dollars and sales constantly at a very high margin to just keep that let alone grow it.  If they did nothing but waiver around a 400B to 500B cap that isn't all that bad except for investors.  Any company would kill for half that market cap and cash flow. 

 

Apple needs something as big as iPhone and iPad to take another big leg up.  That is a tough trick to pull off again without Jobs there.  Even if they do come out with a watch or tv one has to wonder what the price points would be and the sales.  Because apple is so freekin huge they could be popular and still not enough to move the needle.  Look at Warren Buffett. Guy made 37 million a day this past year.  However he can't even invest in most companies because he'd be a 10% plus beneficial owner or he'd have to buy the whole company.  Most whole companies could grow at above market rates and they still won't add enough to Berkshire's pile to move the needle.  Apple is similar.  It's so darn big.

 

As far as China Mobile.  They feel Apple needs them more. They are pushing for lower subsidies and profit sharing for service/itunes revenues.  I am sure there is a stalemate still and each waits to see if the other blinks.  Neither company needs the other in reality and this is the reason there is no deal and unless one side blinks there won't ever be unless the balance of power shifts much further than it is at right now

post #50 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post

As far as China Mobile.  They feel Apple needs them more. They are pushing for lower subsidies and profit sharing for service/itunes revenues.  I am sure there is a stalemate still and each waits to see if the other blinks.  Neither company needs the other in reality and this is the reason there is no deal and unless one side blinks there won't ever be unless the balance of power shifts much further than it is at right now

 

or maybe new iphones and ipads are selling so well that apple doesnt need deal with China Mobile right now and can wait few more weeks, months? 

post #51 of 53

Exactly.  Apple feels it is doing good enough that they can hold out. China Mobile feels exactly the same. They will push android and other cheap phones all day long.  With 700M plus subs they can wait a long time.   Samsung is happy to cut cheap deals with them to be first to market and try to adopt users into their ecosystem.  It's just a case where the status quo is good enough for all parties right now.  

 

If China Mobile was bleeding mass subs to the other carriers they might make a move.  If apple was getting killed even worse in china they would bend a little.  For now I see no deal unless somebody really needs it or feels there will be a material gain by doing so.  The landscape has changed and China Mobile knows they have alternatives that people are buying.  Their 4G networks are ramping up and any new smartphone can push the data charges they seek. 

 

I think a deal doesn't come until the middle or next half of 2014 much to the disappointment of many shareholders but not to apple management who is doing just fine

post #52 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvigod View Post
 

Exactly.  Apple feels it is doing good enough that they can hold out. China Mobile feels exactly the same. They will push android and other cheap phones all day long.  With 700M plus subs they can wait a long time.   Samsung is happy to cut cheap deals with them to be first to market and try to adopt users into their ecosystem.  It's just a case where the status quo is good enough for all parties right now.  

 

If China Mobile was bleeding mass subs to the other carriers they might make a move.  If apple was getting killed even worse in china they would bend a little.  For now I see no deal unless somebody really needs it or feels there will be a material gain by doing so.  The landscape has changed and China Mobile knows they have alternatives that people are buying.  Their 4G networks are ramping up and any new smartphone can push the data charges they seek. 

 

I think a deal doesn't come until the middle or next half of 2014 much to the disappointment of many shareholders but not to apple management who is doing just fine

I suspect it sooner (Chinese New Year), but otherwise I concur.

 

most importantly, neither wants to bend, as it opens the door for all their other supplier/carriers to ask for the same concession.

post #53 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I wouldn't call a 2% change greatly though.

I think the sentiment referred to all the BS over the last year or so, not this one time. Meanwhile, you watch, if China Mobile sign the stock will go down because of worries about the ability to supply demand ...
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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