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Weaker than expected iPhone 5c sales may trigger China Mobile renegotiation - Page 2

post #41 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun View Post

I just bought a 5c for my daughter as a Christmas present. I like it a lot and I think it's a great phone. I wouldn't buy one for myself because the colors are too pastel. They really needed to have more masculine colors in the mix; at least a black one.

 



I agree about the colors. Still can't believe they didn't come out with a project RED 5c. Seems like it would be a natural, and the true red would be a much more masculine color than pastal blue or green.
post #42 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJRSV View Post

Tim Cook has to be considered the most boring dude ever.  He has single-handedly made AAPL the most boring company in Silicon Valley.  Despite all their great products, gone are the days of "edgy" ads and innovation.  Moving forward, AAPL clearly illustrates in their holiday ad, that if you invest in this company, you will end up like the grandma wiping her tears.  Better to invest in Exxon at this point.  The 5s is awesome, but the failure to roll out the China Mobile deal asap and in step with the 5s is just another missed opportunity by Cook and Co. These guys are showing their age, despite their operational expertise.  I have refused to believe that AAPL is finished innovating, but let's face it, SJ is gone and Cook is merely a candle flame compared to SJ's ability to create a firestorm.  Look at AAPL's executive page and it's like looking at the Mona Lisa...Get some fresh management and enthusiasm in there Cook, your present leadership is well represented by your holiday commercial...Boring.


 




The best post I've read on here in a long time. I remember when AAPL was a $700. stock at the same time AMZN was a $200. stock, now AMZN is a $400. stock and AAPL is stuck in the 500's. I reckon Amazon will surpass Apple sometime in 2014. BA HA HA HA.
post #43 of 60
Let's see, they sell fewer 5C units because people are buying more 5S units. Time to lower the predicted stock price!
post #44 of 60

The fact that iPhone 5C is the second best phone doesn't mean much. It only says that there are too many contenders for second spot, and the 5C is the better amongst them.

 

Don't get me wrong, the 5C is a great phone. Even though it is plastic, it feels solid, not like a cheap plastic phone. However, the market is not looking for a great second best phone. I think Apple intentionally positioned the 5C the way they did, to prevent cannibalization, but their anti-cannibalizing strategy is working too well.

 

Anyone who buys a 5C is instantly advertising himself as having purchased a "cheaper" option. It is not like previous years, where buying an older phone at a lower price was never an issue - it looked exactly the same as the phone did a year ago, so it just gave an impression that you haven't yet upgraded. This year, it is instantly obvious that you have purchased a cheaper phone.

 

In the category of people who normally opt for Apple products, I think this is a very negative thing. Apple generally targets the higher strata of society, and these people are image conscious. They don't want to be associated with a cheaper product.

 

For the people who are looking for a cheaper product, the 5C is not at all cheap - it is ridiculously expensive.

 

I have seen stores in India, that have ample availability of the 5C, and zero availability of the 5S. Every day, a lot of customers enquire for the 5S, and just walk out when they find no stock available. Entreaties of the salesperson that 5C is available make no difference. If this is the case in India, I must say 5C is a flop. This is a phone that was meant to target markets like India - at least that is the feeling everyone has.

 

We are past the point where people absolutely want the Apple experience, and if they cannot pay full price for the high-end phone, they will pay a slightly lower price for the second best option. Android offers a good enough option today that people don't have to stretch to buy Apple at prices that make no sense.

 

Apple is neither here nor there in its pricing and positioning of the 5C, and they need to fix one or the other to get it right. If they are smart, they will fix both.

post #45 of 60
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Anyone who buys a 5C is instantly advertising himself as having purchased a "cheaper" option. It is not like previous years, where buying an older phone at a lower price was never an issue…

 

Right, because you were buying the… cheaper… option.

 

In the category of people who normally opt for Apple products, I think this is a very negative thing.

 

We instantly know when you purchase a 13” MacBook Pro, 11” MacBook Air (the MacBook Air at all), etc… 

 
Apple generally targets the higher strata of society, and these people are image conscious. They don't want to be associated with a cheaper product.

 

Are people embarrassed by buying a nano over a touch? Come on.

 
5C is a flop
 

 

And continue to be wrong.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #46 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by ndirishfan1975 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun View Post

I just bought a 5c for my daughter as a Christmas present. I like it a lot and I think it's a great phone. I wouldn't buy one for myself because the colors are too pastel. They really needed to have more masculine colors in the mix; at least a black one.

 



I agree about the colors. Still can't believe they didn't come out with a project RED 5c. Seems like it would be a natural, and the true red would be a much more masculine color than pastal blue or green.

The color choices Apple made, make one thing clear. The 5C is not targeted at men or women - it is targeted at kids. While women might be OK and like some of the colors, no woman worth anything will be caught dead carrying a phone that is totally mismatched in color with her dress. Neutral colors are one thing, but specific colors are a total no-no.

 

Kids on the other hand probably don't care for masculine or feminine colors, they just like a color and go with it. They are probably happy just to have a new phone rather than a hand-me-down.

post #47 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Right, because you were buying the… cheaper… option.

 

We instantly know when you purchase a 13” MacBook Pro, 11” MacBook Air (the MacBook Air at all), etc… 

 

Are people embarrassed by buying a nano over a touch? Come on.

 

And continue to be wrong.

I am not sure if it is your ignorance or your indefatigable craze for Apple that you are advertising here! I will give you the benefit of doubt and grant that you are just crazy about Apple.

 

The shuffle/nano vs touch serve different purposes, and are suited for different usage patterns. Even a Bill Gates probably will prefer a shuffle while at the gym (compared to the Touch, I mean).

 

The 5C and 5S aren't like that. Especially compared to years past, where you can never make out whether the 4S you bought last year was a cheaper phone, or just a phone you bought 2 years back and aren't yet eligible to upgrade. This year, you cannot hide behind such things - moment you buy a 5C, everyone knows you got a cheaper phone. And probably made a stupid decision, because it isn't all that cheap either. You are not just advertising your cheapness, you are effectively advertising your stupidity as well.

 

11" vs 13" Mac Book Air is also similar. Even a 11" MBA can be configured to be more expensive than the low end 13" MBA. 11" MBA is more suitable for a road warrior whose paramount concern is portability. It does not immediately make you look like a cheapskate because you bought the 11" MBA!

 

Even the Mac Mini is "ideal" for some purposes. If you want a PC connected to your TV, MacMini is perfect, and is effectively an upgrade compared to other options. You don't come off looking as cheap when you buy a Mac Mini.

 

The 5C however doesn't offer any such walls to hide behind. There is no scenario where the 5C is more suited than buying the 5S - except because it is cheaper.

post #48 of 60
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

The 5C and 5S aren't like that.

 

It’s literally all the same. I’m gobsmacked that you can pretend otherwise.

 
…where you can never make out whether the 4S you bought last year was a cheaper phone, or just a phone you bought 2 years back and aren’t yet eligible to upgrade.

 

You keep pretending that half the time is all the time.

 
This year, you cannot hide behind such things…

 

No one wants to. No one is trying to. You’re inventing this. Either give actual proof that this is the reason the 5C “isn’t selling” (which it isn’t, isn’t) or stop!

 
…everyone knows you got a cheaper phone.

 

What kind of moron cares what anyone else thinks? If the cared, they’d spend the money on the more expensive phone. If they didn’t, they’d buy what they wanted. Like people are actually doing. I saw a pretty young woman with a red 5C two days ago. Happy as a clam, she was. Made me smile just seeing her on it.

 

She picked it because it was pretty. Knowing nothing about her, not even her name, I can tell you for a fact that she couldn’t care less that it’s “last year’s phone”, nor that anyone else would see it as such, particularly since she had a matching (perfectly, which was surprising) color bumper case on it (not an Apple case, but really just a bumper-style one).

 
And probably made a stupid decision, because it isn't all that cheap either.

 

Ah, so now you’re calling this nice young lady an idiot because she either enjoyed the color or wasn’t rich enough to afford the more expensive one, is that it? Way to go.

 
You are not just advertising your cheapness, you are effectively advertising your stupidity as well.

 

Sounds like a great ad campaign for the Android guys to get behind: “You’re stupid for buying what you want.”

 
11" vs 13" Mac Book Air is also similar. Even a 11" MBA can be configured to be more expensive than the low end 13" MBA.

 

“Not the same use case, therefore irrelevant.” Heck, you even say that yourself, following: 

 
11" MBA is more suitable for a road warrior whose paramount concern is portability.

 

So you’re wrong at least somewhere.

 

The 5C however doesn't offer any such walls to hide behind.

 

That’s probably because it doesn’t want them.

 
There is no scenario where the 5C is more suited than buying the 5S

 

If you want color, if you prefer the feel of it, if you don’t need or want the ‘latest and greatest’, if you want something for your child as their first foray into serious responsibility toward a complex product but are pragmatic enough not to waste money, if you’d like your device not to be as easily scuffed…

 

That’s a single minute of thinking; take one as well, maybe?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #49 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by TJRSV View Post

Tim Cook has to be considered the most boring dude ever. He has single-handedly made AAPL the most boring company in Silicon Valley. Despite all their great products, gone are the days of "edgy" ads and innovation. Moving forward, AAPL clearly illustrates in their holiday ad, that if you invest in this company, you will end up like the grandma wiping her tears. Better to invest in Exxon at this point. The 5s is awesome, but the failure to roll out the China Mobile deal asap and in step with the 5s is just another missed opportunity by Cook and Co. These guys are showing their age, despite their operational expertise. I have refused to believe that AAPL is finished innovating, but let's face it, SJ is gone and Cook is merely a candle flame compared to SJ's ability to create a firestorm. Look at AAPL's executive page and it's like looking at the Mona Lisa...Get some fresh management and enthusiasm in there Cook, your present leadership is well represented by your holiday commercial...Boring.

For some reason you writing sounds familiar. Have you written this before?

I am glad Tim Cook is not Steve Jobs! When Steve was alive and had to take time off from work, Tim Cook stepped in and did an amazing job keeping the ship sailing smoothly. Each time that Tim took over the following fiscal quarter earnings were greater than ever. Profits were through the roof. The bank account grew. Under Tim's watch, the watch you consider to be boring, Tim has grown Apple's cash by over $100 billion in two years! Two years!! No other company has been able to generate the cash that Apple has under Tim's watch. Incredibly, you and so many others consider this boring.

Innovation gone? I do not think so. No other company has a working fingerprint sensor like Apple has. In 2014 every other mobile company will attempt to create a fingerprint sensor now that they have a working model to follow. The 64-bit A7 microprocessor was slammed by nearly every tech journalist and Wall Street analyst out there. Now the truth is being admitted as the competitors are getting closer to releasing their own 64-bit microprocessors. Apple has invested in robotics to help manufacture the new Mac Pro in the United States. Unlike being flashy like Google, Apple is being quiet and just doing what needs to be done to be the best that it can be. Apple is investing in everything that it needs to invest in from maps to sapphire to foldable glass to biometrics and so much more that we don't even know about. Yet Apple is not being innovative because it has not produced a television or a smart watch. What have competitors created?

Would consider the LG smart television that captures what you view and sells it to marketers for advertising innovative? How about Samsung's Galaxy Gear smart watch? How about HTC's back-facing fingerprint sensor?

The board is the same board that was there was Steve Jobs was there two years ago. All the fire, all the enthusiasm is still there. These people are doing a great job. Take a look at Google's board or Amazon's board or HPs board or eBay's board or Facebook's board or Twitter's board or Microsoft's board. They all look similar.
post #50 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Yet Blackberry posts a $4B loss and the stock is up 3% pre market. 1rolleyes.gif

You haven't seen anything yet. When Blackberry implodes their stock will take off like a rocket.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #51 of 60

If this analyst is correct in his numbers, specifically that China Mobile will only sell 15 to 20 Million iPhones in 2014, then it's hardly surprising that this deal isn't getting done quickly.  For China Mobile this would be a relatively small deal and they're likely unwilling to make many concessions to Apple in order for minimal gains.  They're currently adding approximately 9 million 3G subscribers a month (which includes both new customers and existing customers adding data services).  They're adding approximately 5 million new customers each month.  

 

iPhone sales would be to both existing customers and new customers.  It's likely that iPhones sales would represent only a small increase in their subscriber base, as both China Unicom and China Telecom already sell iPhones.  

 

Note however that other analysts have optimistically called for sales of as many as 70 million units a year.


Edited by JamesMac - 12/22/13 at 4:46pm
post #52 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMac View Post

If this analyst is correct in his numbers, specifically that China Mobile will only sell 15 to 20 Million iPhones in 2014, then it's hardly surprising that this deal isn't getting done quickly.  For China Mobile this would be a relatively small deal and they're likely unwilling to make many concessions to Apple in order for minimal gains.  They're currently adding approximately 9 million 3G subscribers a month (which includes both new customers and existing customers adding data services).

I wouldn't conflate 3G customers with data customers. I don't think they are even selling any handsets that are only 2G-capable these days even though they still offer 2G-only service packages. However, those packages are not very cost effective when you consider what you get for even their 3G Lite package in terms of speed, data, minutes, and SMS*.

I also wouldn't assume all data using customers are equal in the eyes of a carrier. As we've seen time and time again iOS users average a considerably higher data usage than Android users.



* My info was taken from the Hong Kong portal which will surely be different for their mainland store(s).

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #53 of 60
Still talking ?
Didn't the Wall Street journal say they have signed the deal ? SIGNED !!!
post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I wouldn't conflate 3G customers with data customers. I don't think they are even selling any handsets that are only 2G-capable these days even though they still offer 2G-only service packages. However, those packages are not very cost effective when you consider what you get for even their 3G Lite package in terms of speed, data, minutes, and SMS*.

I also wouldn't assume all data using customers are equal in the eyes of a carrier. As we've seen time and time again iOS users average a considerably higher data usage than Android users.



* My info was taken from the Hong Kong portal which will surely be different for their mainland store(s).

One has to wonder about the value of a data plan in a country where access to "un-scrubbed" information is so restricted.

Can someone actually living in mainland China offer their views on this matter? When I went to China I specifically avoided all computers, cell phones and email out of concern for data theft (same concerns I'd have if I were Chinese visiting America, to be blunt).

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy_mac_lover View Post

Still talking ?
Didn't the Wall Street journal say they have signed the deal ? SIGNED !!!

Yes, SIGNED.

China Mobile signs deal with Apple, will launch iPhone 5s, 5c in January
By Daniel Eran Dilger


http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/12/22/china-mobile-signs-deal-with-apple-will-launch-iphone-5s-5c-in-january-
post #56 of 60
Deal is done.

5C is a big success around the world.

5S is an even bigger success.

Apple is breaking sales records in multiple product categories right now.

iOS7, fingerprint recognition, Mac Pro and many other things show innovation

China Mobile deal will greatly increase iPhone sales, despite the naysayers

Apple is firing on all cylinders.

And that is before watch and larger screen iPhone 6.

Bookmark this page and tell me I'm right after earnings are announced lol.
post #57 of 60
Is this analyst saying that China Mobile will only sell 2 million 5c's in the first 2 qtrs of availability??
I've read there are around 30 million iphones on China Mobile's network right now, using older and slower iphones at 2g speeds. So, this guy thinks in 6 months only 7% of current users will upgrade to a phone that will be literally 10 times faster, and they will get very few new customers? What are this analysts estimates for the 5s?
Apple will easily sell 20-25mil iphones through China Mobile in the first 6 months, and i'd say a third will be the 5c.

Looking down the road, i predict Apple will sell 60mil larger screen iphones in the first full qtr of availibility.
post #58 of 60

Exactly correct. To Chinese, iPhone is a status product and if you will afford a 5C you will afford a 5S, which is a better investment.

 

But I think Apple will do well with 5C in places like India, Indonesia & Malaysia where (a) Apple has low market share and it is a highly aspirational brand (b) where Chinese smartphones have low market penetration and a poor reputation compared to Western/Japanese brands (even Samsung is second choice there) and (c) people will really like the crazy colorful cases.

 

I see relatively few 5C is Shanghai, mostly teenage girls with pink or blue.

post #59 of 60
There are a lot of teenage girls in China though.

EDIT: that sounds a lot creepier than I meant it to...

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post #60 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

There are a lot of teenage girls in China though.

EDIT: that sounds a lot creepier than I meant it to...

It'll be even creepier if you add "...I have lots of photos that prove it!!"
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