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Apple's new Mac Pro a better value than the sum of its parts - Page 4

post #121 of 130
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Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

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You're "Cuisinart" comment basically boiled down to "If I don't like Apple I should just go away" Well no actually. I make my livelihood writing software for Apple operating systems, as I mentioned in a previous post.

Learn to comprehend what you read. What altered reality do you live where you take personally someone voicing a disagreement with comments they think are ignorant and childish.
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I understand things from Apple's perspective. Why would I want to voice their perspective? I am voicing my own perspective.

You're complaining which means you don't understand. Try to find solutions, not problems.

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Again with the personal attacks.

Never once have I attacked you in this thread.
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And other companies don't have these costs? Apple is special. Especially profitable. Otherwise, why would they build a doughnut spaceship that can't fly, or create a map of the entire Earth from scratch just because they have a petty feud with Google? Apple has more money than brains at this point. And they have a lot of brains.

Apple inhibits the ability for end users to service their devices, and charges ridiculous premiums for basic components that should be able to be installed by the end user. While RAM is not a "consumable," otherwise the analogy is completely valid. Apple would charge me for the electricity I use to power their machines if they could.

What you write isn't reality. Apple does what every other for-profit company in the world does but that's beside the point. The bottom line for all customers is to decide the best product for their needs. If it doesn't then look for a different vendor to satisfy your needs. If no vendor offers what you want then you are in the position to fill a potential void in the market but instead of saying "I see an opportunity!" you say "Apple doesn't care about Mac people!" in your best Kanye West voice.

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post #122 of 130
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Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post

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Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I think the faster speeds we're getting on the new MP are due to a RAID stripe set; I believe the MP has two memory sticks.

Every photo of the new Mac Pro thus far has shown one only. There's not even been a socket for a second one on the other GPU board, though many have suggested Apple might put one there.

That may be true, but I think in order for the Mac Pro to get to 1200MB/s throughput they will need to stripe it. And for that to work they don't need two sockets; the card I use from OWC only has one socket but two sticks (which I can replace by new/larger ones):



PS has the render changed on their website; I don't recall seeing it like this:



edit: no, I'm not crazy; it was different before:

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post #123 of 130

I'm no Apple expert but this just seems like the usual carping about hardware and specs. Seems to me this is a pretty impressive box that, once the price falls, should garner plenty of followers both professional and non-pro.

post #124 of 130
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Originally Posted by csiusasvu View Post

I'm no Apple expert but this just seems like the usual carping about hardware and specs. Seems to me this is a pretty impressive box that, once the price falls, should garner plenty of followers both professional and non-pro.

I like the specs. I don't know where the price of the machine would necessarily fall. I guess I wish it does, I mean, a quad core starts at $3k and the memory is expensive.

My biggest cringe with this is that it really constrains mass storage. Last I saw, only one flash stick and then beyond that, you have to go with Thunderbolt for fast storage. It still seems to add at least $100+ per drive just for the ability to connect a drive via Thunderbolt.

For integrating it into a business' infrastructure, I'm not sure how that would happen without some unnecessary pain. Did I miss a Thunderbolt to Fiber Channel or 10gigE adapter?

I hope there's something that I missed in all this, because every revision and non-revision seemed to make the Mac Pro more expensive to outfit on each iteration.
Edited by JeffDM - 12/27/13 at 12:25pm
post #125 of 130

Wonderful piece of machinery, I only wished the PC makers followed this design philosophy.  Unfortunately the PC industry is not interested in reinventing the industry more interested in making 200% on warranties with a sub 6% profit margin on PC.  No wonder, PCs today still look roughly the same as they do 20 years ago.  Only until Apple popularized the AIO designs PC makers began putting out more AIOs.  

 

I can imagine 1-2 years from now, that Lenovo or HP will reveal their own Workstation class toaster to compete with this.

post #126 of 130
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Originally Posted by Vision33r View Post

I can imagine 1-2 years from now, that Lenovo or HP will reveal their own Workstation class toaster to compete with this.

I'm not sure that HP/Dell/Lenovo have the balls to do something this radical. Part of the reason the new Mac Pro design works is because it's the only option Apple offers. If they offered a traditional tower alongside it, the superiority complex that leads to the scoffing at 'iToys' with their restrictions would drive a lot of people away from the 'restricted' design. Some of that contributed to the Cube's fate. If PC manufacturers went this route, they'd have to offer it alongside their other products and PC buyers especially would want to upgrade their machines themselves so they'd see a restricted machine at pretty much the same or higher price as a machine with PCIe slots and HDD bays.

When some people have stuck to a certain way of working for 2-3 decades, the only way to get them to change is by pushing them into it and PC manufacturers aren't pushers. These companies get dragged along on a leash by their customers' demands pulling in all directions and they end up making products to try and please as many people as possible because they profit from volume. They don't have the leverage to do anything different because they are just another face in a crowd like Android manufacturers. They know that if a Windows user or Android user doesn't get their way, they'll move to the next face in the crowd to stick to their own legacy way of working. Apple having exclusive operating systems, hardware and eco-system gives them that leverage.

This is what sets Apple apart from the crowd and it's a reason why some buyers hate them for it. Being different is often seen as elitist and companies having the leverage to pull it off makes buyers feel powerless. If any company even attempts something like the Mac Pro, I'd expect it to be HP but I really doubt they'll invest in the manufacturing process.
post #127 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


I'm not sure that HP/Dell/Lenovo have the balls to do something this radical. Part of the reason the new Mac Pro design works is because it's the only option Apple offers. If they offered a traditional tower alongside it, the superiority complex that leads to the scoffing at 'iToys' with their restrictions would drive a lot of people away from the 'restricted' design. Some of that contributed to the Cube's fate. If PC manufacturers went this route, they'd have to offer it alongside their other products and PC buyers especially would want to upgrade their machines themselves so they'd see a restricted machine at pretty much the same or higher price as a machine with PCIe slots and HDD bays.

When some people have stuck to a certain way of working for 2-3 decades, the only way to get them to change is by pushing them into it and PC manufacturers aren't pushers. These companies get dragged along on a leash by their customers' demands pulling in all directions and they end up making products to try and please as many people as possible because they profit from volume. They don't have the leverage to do anything different because they are just another face in a crowd like Android manufacturers. They know that if a Windows user or Android user doesn't get their way, they'll move to the next face in the crowd to stick to their own legacy way of working. Apple having exclusive operating systems, hardware and eco-system gives them that leverage.

This is what sets Apple apart from the crowd and it's a reason why some buyers hate them for it. Being different is often seen as elitist and companies having the leverage to pull it off makes buyers feel powerless. If any company even attempts something like the Mac Pro, I'd expect it to be HP but I really doubt they'll invest in the manufacturing process.

 

Actually, what sets Apple apart is that they have more money than God, and even if this Mac Pro experiment is a total fiasco, they won't even notice, while if it is a success, umm, they won't notice either on the bottom line, but it will be a succes d'estime, and and they will have made some people in the Mac hardware group happy. 

post #128 of 130

So I am a dentist who runs a dental office, and I'm kinda a Do It Yourself person when it comes to tech. This machine is being run as a shitty windows 2008 server for one of the few decent dental programs on any OS. Its server function works better than any PC server I ever owned. It backs up to a HIPAA secure site after hours, and to a backup I keep offsite at my house. During the day it easily handles huge radiograph and dental patient electronic medical record, and backs up to my 'to go' drive fast.

 

We only use macs in my office because, well, they Apple makes better PCs than PC makers can. They look good in an office. Their hardware never complains or conflicts, and makes my day easier with all the other stuff I need to do. I think there are more PC users than people realize that wish they could go to mac at work, but the software is sparse on the mac for health specialties, as i would think is true for many other big as well as small industry settings. 

 

There is plenty of room for this computer out here. Not everyone wants the same things in a computer. But for those who still want consistent professional grade equipment, these do not fail nearly as often and hard like the ones they sell at Staples, or even Dell.

post #129 of 130
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Originally Posted by Jakephish View Post
 

So I am a dentist who runs a dental office, and I'm kinda a Do It Yourself person when it comes to tech. This machine is being run as a shitty windows 2008 server for one of the few decent dental programs on any OS. Its server function works better than any PC server I ever owned. It backs up to a HIPAA secure site after hours, and to a backup I keep offsite at my house. During the day it easily handles huge radiograph and dental patient electronic medical record, and backs up to my 'to go' drive fast.

 

We only use macs in my office because, well, they Apple makes better PCs than PC makers can. They look good in an office. Their hardware never complains or conflicts, and makes my day easier with all the other stuff I need to do. I think there are more PC users than people realize that wish they could go to mac at work, but the software is sparse on the mac for health specialties, as i would think is true for many other big as well as small industry settings. 

 

There is plenty of room for this computer out here. Not everyone wants the same things in a computer. But for those who still want consistent professional grade equipment, these do not fail nearly as often and hard like the ones they sell at Staples, or even Dell.

Excellent point, and I assume that the price of a Mac Pro is a rounding error compared to the cost of actual dental equipment (not to mention the cost of running the office). Are you running it purely as a PC or with some virtualization (Parallels/VMWare)?

post #130 of 130

Honest Dentists don't make nearly as much as most people think. I fix all my own equipment, be it my chairs to running my server. Being of the Digital native generation, but having started on a SE, its clear that Apple knows how to build well. Electing to use high end computers that present well to the public and having a robust backbone structure was really attractive. A secure raid drive that quickly backed up at the end of the day via thunderbolt is huge. I dont need as much video speed and power, but having the 4k res display means a lot for digital radiology at my desk. For a small business that relies entirely on its data management and stability of a core unit that must perform, this takes a great mac and makes a perfect solution for me.

 

All I was saying is that this machine may attract an entirely different type of Professional now that digital data is used in ever more formats. There is a device in dentistry that cuts Porcelain crowns in about an hour on a mill. This computer can get that data to the device faster and would shave about 50% of the time. With acrylic 3-d Denture printing data speed of transfer is tremendous. 3D reconstrutions of CT scans for Implant planning needs robust computer data processing power to reduce amount of radiation exposure times. I think that a lot of people are perfect on their imacs, minis, laptops, pads and phones. I cant do what I need with much less than this if I want something that can grow with the industry.

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