or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Evasi0n iOS 7 jailbreak funding supplied by Chinese app piracy site
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Evasi0n iOS 7 jailbreak funding supplied by Chinese app piracy site - Page 2

post #41 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPad View Post
 

 

Don't think it went unnoticed that you didn't answer the question.

 

To answer your question, yes, some people do. That's not the question at hand. The question is whether piracy is part of why many people jailbreak.

 

And your logic doesn't even make any sense. Who is talking about stopping sales of iPhones?

My logic, which you missed, is just because some people choose to do something bad with jail breaking, that doesn't mean jail breaking is bad.

 

this country being a prime example.

guns kill people, but most Americans tell you yes some people use it to kill people, but that doesn't mean that guns are bad.

 

to answer your question, yes I have pirated apps.

but that was because someone at apple decided that certain apps should not be offered for sale in the us store, but are available in other stores.

at one point the BMW remote app, was not offered for sale in the US, but could be readily downloaded (for free) from the uk store.

so I could either do what everyone else was doing, create a new iTunes account on the uk store, with a uk address, and download it that way.

or I could download it from one of the pirated app stores (which by the way, if you try to add them in cydia, you get a warning that this source has ported material, and you are strongly asked not to add it)

 

I've also downloaded some Arabic language apps, that are not for sale in the us store.

And to be honest, I downloaded all the navigation apps to test them, because I've bought some crap apps for over $20, so I wanted to be sure I was getting the best one.

navigon, garmin, etc

and when I found one I liked, I actually purchased navigon from the App Store for $30

 

to simplify this, the reason I jailbreak is to be able to tweak the phone to my liking,

just like when I buy a windows machine, I can change the icons, change the sounds, move the task manager anywhere I want etc.

why should I be forced into using it the way johhny ive sees fit?

he likes 2D icons, to me 2D icons are taking a step back, and I much prefer the look of icons on ios6 than ios7.

yes it's a question of taste, but johhny is not paying for my phone , so I'm changing it to the way I like :)

post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by smalM View Post
 

As evasiOn7 1.0.1 is avialable w/o TaiG since yesterday I'm not sure what this article is about...

 

The free advertising for Taig.

 

Want pirated Apps, jailbreak and reinstall Taig.

 

I don't like the way the government makes me have a muffler on my car, it's my car and if I want everyone to hear the sound of my engine at 120 dB as I drive around with straight pipes I will.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #43 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
 

 

"To be fair..."?  Oh please.

Do you think stealing software and media is fair, in any way, to the developers and artists who create it?

 

Because that's what piracy is.  It's stealing.  It's not "fair."

Sorry.  Your argument is pure sophistry.  There is no way to defend piracy / stealing.

I jailbreak because there's some tweaks I appreciate being able to make that Apple's sandboxing approach renders otherwise impossible. One example involves making a Javascript-based search prefixes setup I wrote available as a "search engine" in Safari so I can switch between searches of Wikipedia, Google, Amazon, my local airport, and the Internet Hockey Database with a one- or two-letter prefix rather than being stuck with only one all the time every time. (If anyone here jailreaks and is interested in the idea, there's a copy of the necessary file at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1241117, and it can be added via instructions at http://lifehacker.com/5903558/how-to-add-a-new-default-search-engine-to-safari-on-the-iphone ).

 

And as a software developer myself, I DEEPLY resent the implications by some here that this somehow makes me a software pirate, or one who tolerates software piracy. I'm not exactly fond of the current state of IP law, but I don't address that by rationalizing theft; instead, I spend more by contributing to political advocacy organizations that press for this sort of thing.

post #44 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
 

My logic, which you missed, is just because some people choose to do something bad with jail breaking, that doesn't mean jail breaking is bad.

 

I never said jailbreaking was bad (in the moral sense, as you're using here). And I never said all people use jailbreaking for pirating. But piracy is one of the common reasons.

 

Quote:
to simplify this, the reason I jailbreak is to be able to tweak the phone to my liking,

just like when I buy a windows machine, I can change the icons, change the sounds, move the task manager anywhere I want etc.

why should I be forced into using it the way johhny ive sees fit?

he likes 2D icons, to me 2D icons are taking a step back, and I much prefer the look of icons on ios6 than ios7.

yes it's a question of taste, but johhny is not paying for my phone , so I'm changing it to the way I like :)

 

And like I said earlier, if you want to, go for it. But Apple doesn't owe you that flexibility. You aren't "forced" to do anything, not by Jony Ive or anyone else. You are free to not use an iPhone and buy an Android phone. Until iOS devices are mandatory, the use of the term "force" is pretty weak.

 

You want flexibility. iOS is not designed with the level of flexibility that you desire. Maybe you should buy a more flexible phone. Or maybe you don't mind playing the jailbreak game, which involves waiting on upgrades until a jailbreak is available, etc.

 

Both are valid options. I hope you enjoy whichever path you choose.

 

I've only been trying to make two points here.

 

1. Piracy is a common reason for jailbreaking.

2. I'd prefer jailbreaking not happen (and the people who want more "power" to just go use Android).

 

Neither means I think it's wrong. It's your phone, you have every right to break the security on it.

 

And it's Apple's OS, they have every right to make it more secure.

post #45 of 130
Neither the people replying nor the people writing the article (want to) get it.

Jailbreaking is first and foremost about taking ownership of a device paid for; there would be no need to find or break security measures if Apple gave legitimate owners of a device legitimate means to access the hardware as master (i.e. root) rather than as a chattel/child with Apple as big daddy.

It's perfectly fine for Apple to support only specific configuration, it's not fine for Apple to prevent me from exercising my rights as an owner to do with a device as I please.

This is even more important knowing that there always will be security holes, so users need to have the option of monitoring their own devices, rather than being unaware victims of cyber snooping and other unsavory activities which may escape a user's awareness because no look behind the scenes is possible.

The issue about piracy is a red herring that Apple loved to trott out to explain their users being locked out (makes me wonder why Mac and PC users don't need to be locked out...)

As for the evasi0n team giving back money: Why should they? They made a contract and they did the work; so why should they not be paid for the other party having violated the contact.

If I get screwed by someone, I don't give back money, I sue for punitive damages to get MORE money to be compensated for the hassle and negative publicity the screwing caused.

The only criticism I have for the evasi0n team is not having waited for 7.1 final; it's silly to give away the jewels to Apple when iOS 7.1 is such a key update and 7.0.x is so full of bugs; a "fix" for 7.1
post #46 of 130
I can watch Big Bang Theory on CBS on the web or over the air.

I can also watch it on iTunes. And I can watch it on P2P.

If I watch it on CBS I don't see any commercials. Either I leave the room, or turn them down.

Or, on my computer, I figured out which ad sites to block so that when I watch CBS.com I NEVER SEE COMMERCIALS.

You could say I jailbroke my Mac, but I just added some entries to my hosts file and now I don't see many ads at all

For the best combination of price, quality and service, p2p is it. Hidef, no commercials, portable, available within 15 minutes of broadcast.

If I watch all the commercials on broadcast TV, does that give me the right to download it on p2p?

After all, if I used a VCR to record it as I was watching it and edited out the commercials, I can legally give someone a copy of that tape. I can't sell it but I can legally give it away.

Nobody but my stepdad uses videotape anymore. Logically there are a lot of grey areas when it comes to "piracy"

Keep fighting kids. It keeps you distracted from the important stuff. Like I said before, killian is lying to you...
Edited by vaporland - 12/26/13 at 1:39am
post #47 of 130

Most people dont jailbreak, because they think people do that to pirate apps. As someone mention that there are dozens of options to do that without jailbreak, even easier, because apple doesnt care. 

I see a lot people saying they dont like icons in ios7. Can you change them? Yes, you can - with jailbreak. Just few icons invidually or whole themes.

Slow animations? Tell me more. Do you want to put password in specific folders? I like to have five icons on my dock with calendar in the middle. Did you try this? I also choose to have 3 pages in dock with light indicator from os X. My icons bounce when they received a notification.

I choose not to have a status bar in any app. I just swipe down to see time (2nd swipe brings down notifications) http://tinyurl.com/q6rcfux

I dont like to have iPod in there. http://tinyurl.com/od5o98y 100s downloadable images of your favourite team, band whatever...

I can capture photos while taking videos on ipod touch 5g, have flash button also there.

Swipe down http://tinyurl.com/lc8cj39http://tinyurl.com/nosjb56,http://tinyurl.com/oaa7sfmhttp://tinyurl.com/q7w26lm or this http://tinyurl.com/l4h6xv5

More useful Lockscreen http://tinyurl.com/kqxex3l , swipe down and http://tinyurl.com/nb5ebz2 boom! Music is there with what? Query?? http://tinyurl.com/o9lbn6m Yes! I wont write there everything, because it will take hours... Best tweaks live activator, f.lux is hard to describe, you just have to try it and then say something...

 

 

 

 
post #48 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by xPad View Post
 

 

I never said jailbreaking was bad (in the moral sense, as you're using here). And I never said all people use jailbreaking for pirating. But piracy is one of the common reasons.

 

Common reasons why people use the Internet:

1) Learning: to gain new information about something. Anything will do.

2) Teaching: to OFFER new information about something. Anything will do.

3) Collaboration: social experiences are pretty awesome, after all.

4) Commercial activity: sales of software and many, many, many other things.

5) Pirated software redistribution.

 

By the logic you have been applying here, #5 and #5 alone means that the Internet (and the Web in particular) is a vector for software piracy and that therefore anyone acquiring software via the Web "deserves what they get" if they end up picking up malware in the process, that this causes all sorts of support headaches because of user forgetfulness, and really some serious thought should be given to shutting it down.

 

You seem to be operating under some kind of assumption that my jailbreaking MY phone (or, in my particular case, my iPad) makes YOURS less secure. Nothing could be further from the truth. The security implications come from research into this sort of thing, and given how popular iDevices are said research is inevitable. I for one applaud the fact that for once the applications of that research and the talent in this area is being applied towards a per-user voluntary relaxation of device controls rather than a general malicious breakage of devices.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xPad View Post
 

And like I said earlier, if you want to, go for it. But Apple doesn't owe you that flexibility. You aren't "forced" to do anything, not by Jony Ive or anyone else. You are free to not use an iPhone and buy an Android phone. Until iOS devices are mandatory, the use of the term "force" is pretty weak.

Apple doesn't owe the flexibility and they should not be under any obligation to support it, correct. But it doesn't follow from there that they should do everything in their power to deny it to anybody and everybody.

 

Let those of us who know what we're doing and can actually safely and professionally administer this sort of thing have the option.  It legitimately costs nothing, despite your assumptions w/r/t software piracy (which is STILL, alas, an inevitable phenomenon).

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xPad View Post

 

You want flexibility. iOS is not designed with the level of flexibility that you desire. Maybe you should buy a more flexible phone. Or maybe you don't mind playing the jailbreak game, which involves waiting on upgrades until a jailbreak is available, etc.

For the record, I *do* have a more flexible phone (Nokia N900; had it for four years and it's still awesome :) ). My tablet, OTOH, is less so. But I have testing I'm required to do on actual iOS devices (and if you even bring up the simulator you are evidently not a real-world developer and you can shut up now :) ), and sometimes when that notification badge just won't go away no matter what I do it's helpful to have the option to install a small jailbreak-only app and say "make that go away so I can test it again". :D

(and yes, it's also tested on non-jailbroken devices, just to be sure, so don't try that canard either. :) )

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xPad View Post

 

I've only been trying to make two points here.

 

1. Piracy is a common reason for jailbreaking.

2. I'd prefer jailbreaking not happen (and the people who want more "power" to just go use Android).

 

Neither means I think it's wrong. It's your phone, you have every right to break the security on it.

 

And it's Apple's OS, they have every right to make it more secure.

 

Jailbreaking isn't "broken security", it's relaxing one part of a multifaceted security model. If Apple's sandbox were literally the only thing standing in between a perfect iOS experience and "everything is broken, your device is under the control of anybody", then their security would have been broken by design. Fortunately for us all, Apple isn't that stupid. (Now if only their public statements didn't suggest that they think their entire userbase is... ;) )

 

 

EDIT: To build on that point - if you jailbreak, essentially you're taking responsibility for your device's security yourself. Some people can do that, and benefit from it. Some people are not realistically capable of that responsibility, and should be advised against it (and I do). And then there's the ***holes who don't care because it enables amoral behavior. I advise against punishing that first group exclusively because the third group exists (if for no other reason than the fact that that first group hates those ***holes just as much as you do if not more! :) ).

post #49 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhulgan View Post

DED. The Fox News of Jailbreak reporting.

 

 

Bravo, jhulgan! Nice insult coming from an anonymous Astroturfer who just signed up on the forum less than 24 hours ago.

 

DED - in stark contrast to Fox News - is one of the few tech writers who's actually practicing responsible journalism by researching detailed historical data and emerging stories, doing the hard work of analyzing said data, and then presenting a no holds barred analysis exposing the lies and hypocrisy of various companies and individuals. In other words, he's doing all the hard work to set the record straight after all the misinformation we get from corrupt mainstream news outlets.

 

So now that you've had your fun, why don't you go crawl back into the little hole you came from, hmm?

post #50 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

 

Then again, if the right people in the PRC government are alerted, these criminals could end up in a prison for the rest of their lives.

 

What makes you so sure that much of the piracy coming from China isn't feeding the pockets of PRC government officials?

post #51 of 130
The problem with saying jailbreaking has nothing to do with stealing is human nature. All locking a phone does is put up a virtual wall between the customer and the merchandise. Yes this means that certain products cannot be added to the phone that in other situations would be very useful for the customer to obtain that software. This does not mean that you have a natural right to jailbreak your phone. You can't force Walmart to carry products that it deems unacceptable. Why should you be able to force Apple to do the same? I will admit that there are honest people who don't steal, but if I could cut a door into Walmart with a saw and used it to load my paid for merchandise, would they be happy with my behavior? Even if I was the landlord, and owned the building, Walmart would be quite right to use any legal means available to shut that door down. You own your phone, but you do not own the software that runs it.

I am quite willing to admit that the relationship between Apple and the phone company leads to decisions about phone software that are not in the best interest of the phone owner. The government should step in and force the telecoms to offer software that allows you to use their system without arbitrary system barriers designed to milk the customer for unreasonable charges. Text messaging is the classic example here. Ending the contracts to lock phones is another. Those are issues that need to be taken up in a political realm, and not simply ignored. Everybody has a right to get a fair price for their phone and usage charges. The current system gives big customers discounts and over charges the small user. This is not a good thing. Walmart doesn't have one set of prices for one customer and another for you.

We need to take charge of our society just like our parents and grandparents did before us. If we don't then we deserve what we get. Using jailbreaks to avoid this problem is not a responsible solution.
post #52 of 130
Originally Posted by jhulgan 
DED. The Fox News of Jailbreak reporting.

 

I’m pretty surprised this is still up; I reported it long ago.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #53 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Just a matter of time before Apple kills of jailbreaking once and for all.
Looking forward to it.

Yes, by like the Mac, providing us an unlocked device from the start.
post #54 of 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post

The problem with saying jailbreaking has nothing to do with stealing is human nature. All locking a phone does is put up a virtual wall between the customer and the merchandise. Yes this means that certain products cannot be added to the phone that in other situations would be very useful for the customer to obtain that software. This does not mean that you have a natural right to jailbreak your phone. You can't force Walmart to carry products that it deems unacceptable. Why should you be able to force Apple to do the same?

Jailbreaking doesn't add anything to the App Store, and jailbreaking voids the warranty (as well it should - if you're jailbreaking, you are implicitly saying that you know enough to fix things when they break). Therefore, Apple's other customers are unaffected and their liability is zero.

 

What some of us would like is the OPTION to void our warranty because we're do-it-yourselfers. I still have yet to see a compelling and rational basis for why Apple considers this to not just be unacceptable, but actively harmful.

 

(Hell, if they made an official jailbreak available, then they could DETECT it and be able to quickly and easily tell users who want jailbreaks without responsibility to buzz off! ;) )

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post

I will admit that there are honest people who don't steal, but if I could cut a door into Walmart with a saw and used it to load my paid for merchandise, would they be happy with my behavior? Even if I was the landlord, and owned the building, Walmart would be quite right to use any legal means available to shut that door down. You own your phone, but you do not own the software that runs it.

Despite the neologism of "intellectual property" making it seem like property law applies, last I checked IP law and property law are VERY different in this regard. :) The analogy also breaks down because, again, jailbreaking does *nothing* to the App Store. A better big-box-store comparison would be, say, Wal-Mart resenting that you, the landlord, sold the plot of land right next to them to a Home Depot. After all, Home Depot sells sledgehammers and cordless drills, and so folks could use those to break into Wal-Mart and steal from them! ;)

 

If you're in the US, jailbreaking is completely legal under the DMCA and other US law, independent of ownership of the software, because the hardware is in fact yours. (Other jurisdictions may vary. I understand much of Europe is similar, for example, but law in general and IP law in particular is complicated - that's why my brother gets paid the big bucks to explain it to people while I just get in arguments about the morality of it all. :D )

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post

I am quite willing to admit that the relationship between Apple and the phone company leads to decisions about phone software that are not in the best interest of the phone owner. The government should step in and force the telecoms to offer software that allows you to use their system without arbitrary system barriers designed to milk the customer for unreasonable charges. Text messaging is the classic example here. Ending the contracts to lock phones is another. Those are issues that need to be taken up in a political realm, and not simply ignored. Everybody has a right to get a fair price for their phone and usage charges. The current system gives big customers discounts and over charges the small user. This is not a good thing. Walmart doesn't have one set of prices for one customer and another for you.

We need to take charge of our society just like our parents and grandparents did before us. If we don't then we deserve what we get. Using jailbreaks to avoid this problem is not a responsible solution.

I don't think of it as "avoiding the problem"; I think of it as a temporary fix while the long-term changes are being worked on. For my immediate needs, I jailbreak, and for the future, I do my research each Election Day, and also contribute to the EFF and FSF monthly and to other actions on an as-needed basis.

post #55 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post

I jailbreak because there's some tweaks I appreciate being able to make 
that Apple's sandboxing approach renders otherwise impossible. One example involves making a Javascript-based search prefixes setup I wrote available as a "search engine" in Safari so I can switch between searches of Wikipedia, Google, Amazon, my local airport, and the Internet Hockey Database with a one- or two-letter prefix rather than being stuck with only one all the time every time. (If anyone here jailreaks and is interested in the idea, there's a copy of the necessary file at 
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1241117, and it can be added via instructions at http://lifehacker.com/5903558/how-to-add-a-new-default-search-engine-to-safari-on-the-iphone ).

And as a software developer myself, I DEEPLY resent the implications by some here that this somehow makes me a software pirate, or one who tolerates software piracy. I'm not exactly fond of the current state of IP law, but I don't address that by rationalizing theft; instead, I spend more by contributing to political advocacy organizations that press for this sort of thing.

What software have you worked on?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #56 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post
 

 

 

Bravo, jhulgan! Nice insult coming from an anonymous Astroturfer who just signed up on the forum less than 24 hours ago.

 

DED - in stark contrast to Fox News - is one of the few tech writers who's actually practicing responsible journalism by researching detailed historical data and emerging stories, doing the hard work of analyzing said data, and then presenting a no holds barred analysis exposing the lies and hypocrisy of various companies and individuals. In other words, he's doing all the hard work to set the record straight after all the misinformation we get from corrupt mainstream news outlets.

 

So now that you've had your fun, why don't you go crawl back into the little hole you came from, hmm?

Yep! And then after all that praiseworthy hard work, it's completely ruined by throwing on a sensationalist headline that misrepresents the situation and ends up making the evad3rs look amoral. It's kind of depressing, really. Heck, I'm kind of hoping some other editor came up with the headline - I don't want to believe he sabotaged his own work.

 

How about we target the actual pirates, instead? Submitted as an alternative: "Evasion iOS 7 jailbreak funding broke down due to app piracy by funders"

post #57 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


What software have you worked on?

Aside from patches to various free software projects (which, for this context probably doesn't count), probably none you would know unless you're into statistical bioinformatics research.

post #58 of 130
I still don't get why people who want all this tweaking ability just don't go Android. Seems to me jailbreaking is more trouble than its worth,
post #59 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I still don't get why people who want all this tweaking ability just don't go Android. Seems to me jailbreaking is more trouble than its worth,

Because most Android devices *also* need similar circumventions (see "rooting an Android device"), and the internals are far less standardized than iOS is because of that Dalvik mishegaas and everybody throwing on their own UI, so you paradoxically end up *worse* off in the end.

 

Personally, I want one of Maemo/Meego/Sailfish to take over the world, but that seems unlikely. :) Besides, it occasionally helps that I can run the same apps as other folks I know who use iPhones and iPads because I recommended them to said folks.

post #60 of 130
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
I still don't get why people who want all this tweaking ability just don't go Android. Seems to me jailbreaking is more trouble than its worth,

 

They’d rather live next to the hog rendering plant than in it.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #61 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post

The problem with saying jailbreaking has nothing to do with stealing is human nature. All locking a phone does is put up a virtual wall between the customer and the merchandise. Yes this means that certain products cannot be added to the phone that in other situations would be very useful for the customer to obtain that software. This does not mean that you have a natural right to jailbreak your phone. You can't force Walmart to carry products that it deems unacceptable. Why should you be able to force Apple to do the same? I will admit that there are honest people who don't steal, but if I could cut a door into Walmart with a saw and used it to load my paid for merchandise, would they be happy with my behavior? Even if I was the landlord, and owned the building, Walmart would be quite right to use any legal means available to shut that door down. You own your phone, but you do not own the software that runs it.

I am quite willing to admit that the relationship between Apple and the phone company leads to decisions about phone software that are not in the best interest of the phone owner. The government should step in and force the telecoms to offer software that allows you to use their system without arbitrary system barriers designed to milk the customer for unreasonable charges. Text messaging is the classic example here. Ending the contracts to lock phones is another. Those are issues that need to be taken up in a political realm, and not simply ignored. Everybody has a right to get a fair price for their phone and usage charges. The current system gives big customers discounts and over charges the small user. This is not a good thing. Walmart doesn't have one set of prices for one customer and another for you.

We need to take charge of our society just like our parents and grandparents did before us. If we don't then we deserve what we get. Using jailbreaks to avoid this problem is not a responsible solution.

 

That's a terrible analogy. By jailbreaking, nobody is forcing Apple to sell unapproved apps in their store. Jailbreaking merely overrides Apple's restrictions so that users can install whatever they like on their devices. We OWN our phones and should be free to use them as we see fit. This is not breaking into Walmart and forcing them to stock different merchandise. It's going to a different store of our choosing and buying whatever the hell we want.

 

Now, it's not Apple's responsibility to facilitate this, given that a) the App Store is a big revenue generator for them and b) their curation of the App Store is what maintains the level of quality and security that is clearly absent on the Android platform. Furthermore we shouldn't be shocked when Apple takes steps to prevent this from occurring.

 

But it's a mistake to suggest that it's a) morally wrong or b) illegal for users to jailbreak their phones. If someone wants to install a custom keyboard - which Apple expressly forbids in their App Store - then nobody has a right to tell that person they can't do it - if they figure out a means to do so on their own or with someone else's help.

 

The only place where morality and legality come into play are areas like pirated apps and enabling of features like tethering without paying for them. As far as apps go, I'm a huge supporter of paying developers for their efforts. They clearly deserve to be rewarded for the great work they produce. On the other hand, I'm not going to shed a tear for AT&T if they see a drop in revenue from tethering fees, which by all rights should be free since they're essentially double-billing us for using the same data we're already paying for.

 

So to summarize, it's OK for Apple to control what's on their App Store and take measures to dissuade users from jailbreaking. It's also OK for users to jailbreak. It's not OK to steal from talented and hard working developers who create great apps. And finally, no one should give a flying crap about AT&T's ill-gained profits.

post #62 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post

The problem with saying jailbreaking has nothing to do with stealing is human nature. All locking a phone does is put up a virtual wall between the customer and the merchandise. Yes this means that certain products cannot be added to the phone that in other situations would be very useful for the customer to obtain that software. This does not mean that you have a natural right to jailbreak your phone. You can't force Walmart to carry products that it deems unacceptable. Why should you be able to force Apple to do the same? I will admit that there are honest people who don't steal, but if I could cut a door into Walmart with a saw and used it to load my paid for merchandise, would they be happy with my behavior? Even if I was the landlord, and owned the building, Walmart would be quite right to use any legal means available to shut that door down. You own your phone, but you do not own the software that runs it.

I am quite willing to admit that the relationship between Apple and the phone company leads to decisions about phone software that are not in the best interest of the phone owner. The government should step in and force the telecoms to offer software that allows you to use their system without arbitrary system barriers designed to milk the customer for unreasonable charges. Text messaging is the classic example here. Ending the contracts to lock phones is another. Those are issues that need to be taken up in a political realm, and not simply ignored. Everybody has a right to get a fair price for their phone and usage charges. The current system gives big customers discounts and over charges the small user. This is not a good thing. Walmart doesn't have one set of prices for one customer and another for you.

We need to take charge of our society just like our parents and grandparents did before us. If we don't then we deserve what we get. Using jailbreaks to avoid this problem is not a responsible solution.

 

This is the most ridiculous piece of reasoning I've read in a long time.

According to you, a manufacturer has the right to decide how you use a product you paid for, as a consequence e.g.:

a) you are a criminal if you blow up CDs in a microwave oven, because that's not what they were designed for, and because you don't own the software that controls the device

b) you're a criminal because you use a screwdriver as a chisel because it says on the handle "Do not use as a chisel"...

c) you're a criminal if you chip your car, because the ECU software isn't owned by you...

 

Further, every Mac sold is a device for committing piracy, because OS X allows for user's root access to the devices they own.

 

Rooting/Jailbreaking a device you own has nothing to do with piracy, the rules against it are primarily a consequence of badly written legislation with side effects that the spooks love: devices you can't control, inspect, understand, such that they can permanently embed a bug on your person; you don't think for a moment that e.g. the NSA will not jailbreak a device behind your back if they have the chance to do so?

 

Rooting/Jailbreaking is users asserting their rights of owners over devices they legally bought, and a necessary step to prevent wholesale erosion of property and civil rights under the guise of anti-piracy legislation.

post #63 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Neither the people replying nor the people writing the article (want to) get it.

Jailbreaking is first and foremost about taking ownership of a device paid for; there would be no need to find or break security measures if Apple gave legitimate owners of a device legitimate means to access the hardware as master (i.e. root) rather than as a chattel/child with Apple as big daddy.

It's perfectly fine for Apple to support only specific configuration, it's not fine for Apple to prevent me from exercising my rights as an owner to do with a device as I please.

This is even more important knowing that there always will be security holes, so users need to have the option of monitoring their own devices, rather than being unaware victims of cyber snooping and other unsavory activities which may escape a user's awareness because no look behind the scenes is possible.

The issue about piracy is a red herring that Apple loved to trott out to explain their users being locked out (makes me wonder why Mac and PC users don't need to be locked out...)

 

Did the system come as a surprise to you when you first turned on your iPhone?

 

And let me inform you of something: Yes, it is TOTALLY fine for Apple to "prevent [you] from exercising your rights to do with a device as [you] please" if they made the device and sold it to you, and you agreed to the license.  Don't like it?  Get an Android phone.  But as long as you:

 

1) Were well aware of the situation when you purchased the phone,

2) Agreed to the license when activating the phone,

 

Then you're damned right they can determine how the phone is to be interacted with.

 

Jesus.  Go get a Samsung.

post #64 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macnewsjunkie View Post

You own your phone, but you do not own the software that runs it.

I am quite willing to admit that the relationship between Apple and the phone company leads to decisions about phone software that are not in the best interest of the phone owner. The government should step in and force the telecoms to offer software that allows you to use their system without arbitrary system barriers designed to milk the customer for unreasonable charges.

We need to take charge of our society just like our parents and grandparents did before us. If we don't then we deserve what we get. Using jailbreaks to avoid this problem is not a responsible solution.

The top sentence in this quotation says it all. I believe it is total BS too. Not the statement or it's truth, but the legal ramifications that go with it. When I bought my first computer and turned it on I read the license agreement for XP. It said I didn't own the software. This made me very angry. My $1200 just went into that system and here is a company telling me I don't own it. F___ That! When I buy a book, a car, or furniture I own it and can sell it and change it in any way that suits me. What gives the company the right to tell me I don't own this software? I can understand that if I duplicate a car or book and sell it as my own then I'm perhaps violating copyright laws. Being told I can't change or modify something for which I paid money in advance to own is just absurd.

 

I don't know how to program a computer. I can follow instructions from others who want to help me have a better experience with my devices. I claim that right and won't ever give it up. Something that is mine is mine not Apple's or Microsux'. I'll do what I want with it. Jailbreaking is an intrinsic right. If someone doesn't want to do it then that is totally fine with me. Just don't tell me how to use a device I paid to own.

 

It is for these reasons I've become a fan of GNU/Linux. Throw off the chains of Microsux and Apple and dare to be free. The open source community is improving in leaps and bounds. It even leads in many ways. Check it out at Distrowatch.com.

post #65 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post

"It's better to be a pirate than join the navy" Steven P Jobs

“I was definitely talking about the theft of intellectual property when I said that. Totally. Like, no two ways about it.”

–Steven P. Jobs

Rip, Mix, Burn - Steven P. Jobs
post #66 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

 

Did the system come as a surprise to you when you first turned on your iPhone?

 

And let me inform you of something: Yes, it is TOTALLY fine for Apple to "prevent [you] from exercising your rights to do with a device as [you] please" if they made the device and sold it to you, and you agreed to the license.  Don't like it?  Get an Android phone.  But as long as you:

 

1) Were well aware of the situation when you purchased the phone,

2) Agreed to the license when activating the phone,

 

Then you're damned right they can determine how the phone is to be interacted with.

 

Jesus.  Go get a Samsung.

Um. "Selling the phone/device" and "agreeing to a license" do NOT go together. The hardware is yours and that's that and you can do what you like with it so long as you don't break the law (much in the same way that you own the sledgehammer, but that doesn't make it okay to use it to bash somebody's skull in). The *software* is never sold, however; what's sold is a license to use it. That's the legal structure this takes. And per US law, Apple can't insist that you refrain from jailbreaking because it is a lawful activity. It's piracy that is unlawful, and despite efforts by Apple (and by some trolls here) to conflate the concepts they remain separate and legally different according to US federal law.

 

As for "you agreed, so that's that" - I'm not sure if the license does include a provision along the lines of "you agree not to 'jailbreak'", but even if it did, I'm not sure if that clause would actually be enforceable if it was taken to court. Popular perception aside, contract strength (and that's what an EULA is - a contract between the vendor and the customer) is determined not based on "it was written down, and you said yes, so there", but based on how legally enforceable what was written down is. It is not exactly trivial to sign away basic legal rights in a manner that can be made to stick.

 

 

What I find curious, by the way, is this open hostility to the very idea of jailbreaking and jailbreak users. What is it about jailbreaks that threatens you? Why are you so overwhelmingly hostile to the point of insisting that people go away and use something else entirely rather than slightly modifying what they have? How does this affect you or those you care about or Apple in any possible way? What is the motivation for this snide, dismissive hatred? Because I frankly don't get it. It makes no sense to me.

post #67 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post
 

The top sentence in this quotation says it all. I believe it is total BS too. Not the statement or it's truth, but the legal ramifications that go with it. When I bought my first computer and turned it on I read the license agreement for XP. It said I didn't own the software. This made me very angry. My $1200 just went into that system and here is a company telling me I don't own it. F___ That! When I buy a book, a car, or furniture I own it and can sell it and change it in any way that suits me. What gives the company the right to tell me I don't own this software? I can understand that if I duplicate a car or book and sell it as my own then I'm perhaps violating copyright laws. Being told I can't change or modify something for which I paid money in advance to own is just absurd.

 

I don't know how to program a computer. I can follow instructions from others who want to help me have a better experience with my devices. I claim that right and won't ever give it up. Something that is mine is mine not Apple's or Microsux'. I'll do what I want with it. Jailbreaking is an intrinsic right. If someone doesn't want to do it then that is totally fine with me. Just don't tell me how to use a device I paid to own.

 

It is for these reasons I've become a fan of GNU/Linux. Throw off the chains of Microsux and Apple and dare to be free. The open source community is improving in leaps and bounds. It even leads in many ways. Check it out at Distrowatch.com.

Um. Speaking as a card-carrying paying member of the Free Software Foundation myself... you are NOT doing GNU/Linux any marketing favors with this kind of rant. Just a hint. ;)

 

What gives the company that right is that they did not actually sell you full ownership rights to the software. They sold a license and included the software usable under that license along with. I'm not fond of that "bundling it together" arrangement either, but they're legally allowed to do it that way. That they've made it all too easy to assume otherwise doesn't necessarily change that (although I'm not sure of the current legal strength of most EULAs in court).

 

Heck, technically you don't own any of the GPL software you have either - copyright remains with the author or (if it's a GNU project) the FSF (since they require reassignment for legal defense reasons). But the rights you have with it under the license are MUCH broader and are much more respectful of the desire to tinker with the stuff one uses on a daily basis. ;)

post #68 of 130
To all those hateful people wanting Jailbreaking to fail: you are ignorant of what jailbreaking means. It just means opening up root access and contrary to what you think you know, most people do it to mod their device's look, feel, and capabilities.

Personally I use only a few JB apps, but they aren't available natively and don't have anything to do with piracy.

1. ActionMenu: a persistent system wide clipboard.
2. Winterboard: a theming apps that allows you to change the look and feel of the OS with free and paid theme packages.
3. MyWi: a tethering app so I can the unlimited data plan I pay for without having to change everyone on my family plan to a shared plan.

The ability to pirate apps isn't part of the Jailbreak itself and hurts, not helps, the JB developers who often themselves create and sell apps to JB users.
post #69 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

 

Did the system come as a surprise to you when you first turned on your iPhone?

 

And let me inform you of something: Yes, it is TOTALLY fine for Apple to "prevent [you] from exercising your rights to do with a device as [you] please" if they made the device and sold it to you, and you agreed to the license.  Don't like it?  Get an Android phone.  But as long as you:

 

1) Were well aware of the situation when you purchased the phone,

2) Agreed to the license when activating the phone,

 

Then you're damned right they can determine how the phone is to be interacted with.

 

Jesus.  Go get a Samsung.


You're a great fascist.

 

Why must Apple and others sell items with such restrictive agreements? Think about it. How does it benefit them? All they have to do is give a warranty for the hardware and original software. They don't need to honor warranties for non-Apple software? They don't honor warranties for non-Apple software. So why is there this big need to control the users? Why must they dictate what we can do with our property?

 

This is about controlling people. These agreements are invasions of privacy. These companies are interfering with our lives from afar. They let their machines come into our homes and they are then dictating to us what we can do with them. That is unacceptable.

 

Most of us wouldn't stand for the US government blocking web sites and preventing us from getting information on the internet or running certain programs on our devices. The Chinese government does it for their people. They are blocking access to technology and information. Computer and phone manufacturers are doing a similar thing to end users. They just don't have the same force and power behind them. They are still exercising power over individuals by telling them what they can and can't do. Instead of using physical treats of violence they use financial force. They void warranties.

 

Spending hundreds of dollars on a device and having it die due to a manufacturing flaw would be very detrimental to many people if there were no warranty. Who's to say that these companies with their proprietary secret hidden code, haven't embedded kill switches in these devices that can be activated when one loads "unapproved" software? Then they can just void a warranty and blame the user. Until the code is visible to all, we'll never know if this isn't already happening.

post #70 of 130
Originally Posted by vaporland View Post
Rip, Mix, Burn - Steven P. Jobs

 

“I was definitely talking about stealing CDs and illegally distributing them. Like, totally. That’s what I wanted people to do when I said that.” 

 

–Steven P. Jobs

 

No, really keep it up. Is English not your first language? Do you not comprehend context?

 

Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post

Why must Apple and others sell items with such restrictive agreements? Think about it. How does it benefit them?

 

It ensures quality of device, quality of support, and quality of reputation.

 

This is about controlling people. These agreements are invasions of privacy. These companies are interfering with our lives from afar. They let their machines come into our homes and they are then dictating to us what we can do with them. That is unacceptable.

 

Nice psychosis you have there. Who was it, again, who dictates what machines goes into what house? The companies?

 
Computer and phone manufacturers are doing a similar thing to end users.

 

Yeah! You should be able to access all the child porn you want! You should be able to steal all the software you want! How dare they stop you! You won’t stand for this!

 
Spending hundreds of dollars on a device and having it die due to a manufacturing flaw would be very detrimental to many people if there were no warranty.

 

Good thing there’s a warranty, huh.

 
Who's to say that these companies with their proprietary secret hidden code, haven't embedded kill switches in these devices that can be activated when one loads "unapproved" software?

 

I’m to say. So is everyone else who isn’t a nutcase. Someone just saw the trailer for Dragon Day…

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #71 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
 

Aside from patches to various free software projects (which, for this context probably doesn't count), probably none you would know unless you're into statistical bioinformatics research.

 

So no iOS app dev work?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #72 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

 

So no iOS app dev work?

1) If you really think that matters, you're being finicky just to try to justify an ad-hominem. Are you selling anything on the App Store yourself and suffering from piracy as a result, or are you pretending to empathize with developers based on your assumptions as to what "universal opinion" is or should be about jailbreaking?

 

2) To actually answer the question, by the way - yes, roughly speaking. Didn't write the app in question (and it's both iOS and Android), but I've been part of the qa and testing, and it's not in the public App Store because it's specific to a research study that I don't believe I'm allowed to talk about.

post #73 of 130

I didn't say that your lack of software ownership was the right situation.  I agree that it is nothing more than leaving control of your property with the seller after the sale.  It is not the way the laws in this country should be written, but is the way they currently stand.

post #74 of 130
The system in China has spawned a process by which the people only get a little more bread by carving it out. Cheating. This has led to pollution, corruption, bribes, taking advantage of others (even in the same village), and it has become the norm. If you don't go along, you don't get along. Please, don't expect anything different coming out of there. We will go along because we see money to be made. The largest capitalists taking advantage of the largest communist labor pool. Thing is, the leaders of the communists are happy to sell their comrades labor to their supposed enemy.
Jailbreakers, by definition, are crooks. Please, don't hate, just accept it. Jailbreakers try to circumvent the contracts that Apple have made. The only thing that could destroy this system of cheating is honor. If I don't get it fair and square, I don't want it.
post #75 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esprit de Corps View Post

Jailbreakers, by definition, are crooks. Please, don't hate, just accept it.

Under 17 U.S.C. § 1201 (part of the DMCA) the Library of Congress may designate certain classes of work as being exempt from DMCA prohibitions. Included in these exceptions, as of 2010 are "Computer programs that enable wireless telephone handsets to execute software applications [read: operating systems such as iOS or Android], where circumvention is accomplished for the sole purpose of enabling interoperability of such applications, when they have been lawfully obtained [emphasis added], with computer programs on the telephone handset."

 

Or, in other words, you are freely allowed to circumvent the operating system's protections w/r/t what applications may execute, so long as the sole purpose is to execute other applications that you have the legal right to own and access.

 

Or, in short... you're not just wrong, you're provably and demonstrably wrong. "Please, don't hate, accept it." :)

 

(NOTE: As this only cites US law, it obviously only applies to US jurisdictions. If you live elsewhere, the legal situation may be different. As I and Apple are both US residents, though, this is good enough for me. :) Apple still insists that such a procedure voids the warranty - as is their wont and legal right to assert.)

post #76 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
 

1) If you really think that matters, you're being finicky just to try to justify an ad-hominem. Are you selling anything on the App Store yourself and suffering from piracy as a result, or are you pretending to empathize with developers based on your assumptions as to what "universal opinion" is or should be about jailbreaking?

 

2) To actually answer the question, by the way - yes, roughly speaking. Didn't write the app in question (and it's both iOS and Android), but I've been part of the qa and testing, and it's not in the public App Store because it's specific to a research study that I don't believe I'm allowed to talk about.

 

I want an App store that attracts developers and maintains their livelihoods.

 

Apple is the first to come up with that in a truly successful way.

 

Symbian (previously the most widely used smartphone OS) never provided protection from piracy which pretty much killed it, volunteers can only do so much.

 

If I want to steal others work I would start by Jailbreaking then installing this Taig repository of pirated stuff.

 

So many tosspots whining about their right to do stuff, go contribute to one of the free and open iOS and Android alternatives, such as Ubuntu, Firefox and others.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #77 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
 

[quote]Um. "Selling the phone/device" and "agreeing to a license" do NOT go together. The hardware is yours and that's that and you can do what you like with it so long as you don't break the law (much in the same way that you own the sledgehammer, but that doesn't make it okay to use it to bash somebody's skull in). The *software* is never sold, however; what's sold is a license to use it. That's the legal structure this takes. And per US law, Apple can't insist that you refrain from jailbreaking because it is a lawful activity. It's piracy that is unlawful, and despite efforts by Apple (and by some trolls here) to conflate the concepts they remain separate and legally different according to US federal law.[/quote]

 

I phrased that very badly, you're correct.

 

Quote:
As for "you agreed, so that's that" - I'm not sure if the license does include a provision along the lines of "you agree not to 'jailbreak'", but even if it did, I'm not sure if that clause would actually be enforceable if it was taken to court. Popular perception aside, contract strength (and that's what an EULA is - a contract between the vendor and the customer) is determined not based on "it was written down, and you said yes, so there", but based on how legally enforceable what was written down is. It is not exactly trivial to sign away basic legal rights in a manner that can be made to stick.

 

I am aware of how contract law works.  My point was that, within the law anyways, Apple licenses something to you.  You click on "Agree" -- twice, actually -- and they can put whatever restrictions they want onto your use, assuming those restrictions aren't already otherwise illegal.  Your "basic legal rights" are exactly what you signed onto by pressing "Agree."  

 

 

Quote:

What I find curious, by the way, is this open hostility to the very idea of jailbreaking and jailbreak users. What is it about jailbreaks that threatens you? Why are you so overwhelmingly hostile to the point of insisting that people go away and use something else entirely rather than slightly modifying what they have? How does this affect you or those you care about or Apple in any possible way? What is the motivation for this snide, dismissive hatred? Because I frankly don't get it. It makes no sense to me.

 

 

Nothing threatens me.  I couldn't care less, to be honest.  What bothers, me, though, is someone claiming that the iPhone he bought is somehow so screwed up -- due to THINGS HE KNEW ABOUT GOING IN!  It's like me buying a Shakira (well, old Shakira, anyways) album called "Sale e Sol" and then complaining that it's in Spanish.

 

When I was sick of Windows -- sometime between '95 and '98 -- I moved to Linux.  I ran that for many years.  Eventually, I got my first Mac, a TiPb G4, and that was that (god, I miss that machine -- spilled a Coke on it in my sleep :( ).  If I wanted Windows, I ran that (god knows why).  When I wanted free software and a system with which I could do absolutely anything, I ran Linux.  When I wanted a Mac and a very free OS, I ran and am running OSX.

 

So, I run the OS which most fits my use-case scenario.  If digging into the root system and messing around with the file system most fits your use-case scenario, then why use iOS?  Why not use Android?  Clearly, that fits the scenario much better.  

post #78 of 130

As always, insightful reactions.  What I'd like to see is a more proactive approach from you.  

 

What do you think the government of China will do to protect Apple from the (I believe) coming onslaught of pirates and hacks against iOS, primarily and OSX secondarily?  I wonder if China's government has an interest in preserving the spirit of the contracts it makes with Apple and other US companies, or in merely advancing its own ends.  Cloaked in ruse and deception, China seems to allow its courts to advance spurious claims and subvert contracts for the benefit of Chinese companies against western interests.

post #79 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallwheels View Post
 


You're a great fascist.

 

Why must Apple and others sell items with such restrictive agreements? Think about it. How does it benefit them? All they have to do is give a warranty for the hardware and original software. They don't need to honor warranties for non-Apple software? They don't honor warranties for non-Apple software. So why is there this big need to control the users? Why must they dictate what we can do with our property?

 

This is about controlling people. These agreements are invasions of privacy. These companies are interfering with our lives from afar. They let their machines come into our homes and they are then dictating to us what we can do with them. That is unacceptable.

 

Most of us wouldn't stand for the US government blocking web sites and preventing us from getting information on the internet or running certain programs on our devices. The Chinese government does it for their people. They are blocking access to technology and information. Computer and phone manufacturers are doing a similar thing to end users. They just don't have the same force and power behind them. They are still exercising power over individuals by telling them what they can and can't do. Instead of using physical treats of violence they use financial force. They void warranties.

 

Spending hundreds of dollars on a device and having it die due to a manufacturing flaw would be very detrimental to many people if there were no warranty. Who's to say that these companies with their proprietary secret hidden code, haven't embedded kill switches in these devices that can be activated when one loads "unapproved" software? Then they can just void a warranty and blame the user. Until the code is visible to all, we'll never know if this isn't already happening.

 

I'm about as FAR FROM a fascist as you will find.  Just so you know.

 

I buy iPhone and iPad, and I invest time into iOS7 (or whatever) BECAUSE I know that it won't be a mess, BECAUSE I know what I'm getting is OK'ed.

 

As far as your last paragraph, I don't even know where to begin.  I've been using Apple products fro over a decade.  I'm fairly sure that they aren't messing with my content.

post #80 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
 

Common reasons why people use the Internet:

1) Learning: to gain new information about something. Anything will do.

2) Teaching: to OFFER new information about something. Anything will do.

3) Collaboration: social experiences are pretty awesome, after all.

4) Commercial activity: sales of software and many, many, many other things.

5) Pirated software redistribution.

 

By the logic you have been applying here, #5 and #5 alone means that the Internet (and the Web in particular) is a vector for software piracy and that therefore anyone acquiring software via the Web "deserves what they get" if they end up picking up malware in the process, that this causes all sorts of support headaches because of user forgetfulness, and really some serious thought should be given to shutting it down.

 

I've said no such thing. You are conflating two things (and adding in a third, the "deserves what they get", which I've never said, and never do).

 

Those two things (which are SEPARATE) are:

 

1. People commonly use jailbreaking for piracy.

2. I prefer an iOS without a notable jailbreaking scene.

 

#2 is not predicated on piracy.

 

Quote:
You seem to be operating under some kind of assumption that my jailbreaking MY phone (or, in my particular case, my iPad) makes YOURS less secure.

 

Nope, I never said that. I said those two things I listed above, and also (in reference to another claim, though this is just the primary reasoning behind #2) that having jailbreaking be something even remotely common, people will do it when they shouldn't, which will cause things like bad reviews for apps, and cause problems for people who don't understand what's going on, all because some idiot said something like, "lol, why are you using the iPhone the way Jony Ive is forcing you to? Mod it like mine, don't be a sucker."

 

Quote:
Apple doesn't owe the flexibility and they should not be under any obligation to support it, correct. But it doesn't follow from there that they should do everything in their power to deny it to anybody and everybody.

 

I never said that followed. Please quit putting words into my mouth. These are straw men. Congrats on defeating an argument I am no making. Now, could you focus on the ones that I am? They are numbers 1 and 2 above (with the third one being an elaboration on #2).

 

Quote:
Jailbreaking isn't "broken security", it's relaxing one part of a multifaceted security model. If Apple's sandbox were literally the only thing standing in between a perfect iOS experience and "everything is broken, your device is under the control of anybody", then their security would have been broken by design. Fortunately for us all, Apple isn't that stupid. (Now if only their public statements didn't suggest that they think their entire userbase is... ;) )
 

No, jailbreaking is breaking the security, not "broken security". QUIT USING QUOTES as though I've said any of those words. You've literally "quoted" nothing I've written. Nor did I say it was "literally the only thing" or that "everything is broken, your device is under the control of anybody".

 

I said the two things above, with the third for elaboration.

 

If your intention is simply to argue with a made up list of arguments, please don't bother replying to me, as I've said none of it and have no responsibility for the imaginary arguments put forth by people in your head.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Evasi0n iOS 7 jailbreak funding supplied by Chinese app piracy site