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Editorial: 2013 was a terrible year for both Apple's competitors and its media critics - Page 4

post #121 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post

Gee, it isn't enough that there are so many me-too apps from developers already, but now you want to open up the Walled Garden to uncertified crap? I'll bet those unprofitable devs would be unprofitable on any platform. Maybe they should consider other lines of work?

Here's a hint; don't like the App Store rules? Google play awaits.

That's not my point. My point is that developers would make money with or without the walled garden, Apple doesn’t make the money for them.

 

Then why are they developing apps for iOS?  If you are correct then they don't need the Apple ecosystem and, in fact, would be better off without it since then they would not have to give up 30% of their profit.

post #122 of 257
This headline is all wrong. It was a banner year for Apple%u2019s critics. They get paid to be wrong, and this year was a doozy.
post #123 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by williamneildrake View Post

...
Strive for clarity. Permit only one idea per sentence. Avoid using too many adjectives for dramatic effect. These suggestions should help you communicate your thoughts more clearly.

With such a patronizing attitude you must be a teacher.
You probably wonder why JK Rowling is so successfull.
post #124 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


my point is fashion/lust/desirability are going to become more and more important for Apple. That's where Jony Ive and Angela Ahrendts come in to play. Make Apple products fashion statements that people want/have to own.

If chamfered edges cut with polycrystalline diamonds is a fashion statement, then it is well placed within the design philosophy of the original iPhone that included, wait for this, a traditionally milled chamfer on the face frame.

 

Here's another theme. Obrounds. All over the place. Look especially at the Lightning connector; the physical body of the female connector is an obround the fits in another obround machined in the iPhone housing. That gives a high level manufacturing benefit as well as functional benefit that looks appropriate. Would that USB.org could think like that.

 

Fine patterns of laser cut holes; fashion, utility, manufacturing or all of those?

 

Apple has been building an evolution of iDevices since the iPod. While there are some design elements, color and surface finish for example, that point to fashion, most of what I see is a continuation of a form and function design philosophy espoused by Jony. This will continue with wearable devices, albeit some ornamental elements will be employed, but I hardly see fashion or ornamentation as driving the design; that's function, materials and manufacturability.

 

Angela will obviously be included in design sessions, but her primary job is to market those devices to the demographics that Apple appeals to, and even to those that don't. That's what she brings to the table.

post #125 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Both Google and Amazon stocks are up 58% year-to-date; Microsoft is up 40%. If these companies have had a terrible year it's certainly not reflected in their stock price. Compare that with Apple which is up a paltry 5% year-to-date even though the S&P 500 is up 29% and the Nasdaq is up 38%. How is it that Google and Microsoft stock is up double digits if they had such a bad year?

you have just demonstrated once again how Wall Street is driven by hype, not facts as the conventional wisdom fantasizes (e.g., "analysts"). how else do you think the crash of 2008 was possible?
 

or the next one ...

post #126 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Then why are they developing apps for iOS?  If you are correct then they don't need the Apple ecosystem and, in fact, would be better off without it since then they would not have to give up 30% of their profit.

Did you not read where I wrote Apple needs devs and devs need Apple? But Apple doesn’t pay developers to make apps, they do it on their dime in hopes that they'll earn money in the app store, and even though Apple provides storage and handles the transaction they do nothing to ensure that a developer makes money, that's totally on them and if and when they do Apple makes money from them not for them.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #127 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Why exactly should Apple release a special dividend? What do you think a special dividend would have done to the stock? Shot it past it's temporary 2012 peak?

2) Stocks fluctuate. If you are an investor you just have to accept that. It's also gambling so you can't simply look at a successful company (like Apple) and expect the stocks to grow because the company is profitable or expect a stock to drop upon hearing about quarterly losses (like BB and Amazon) because there is emotion involved in these decisions. It's not rational but it's a reality.

3) Apple doesn't have product releases for most of the year. They never have. You can't have a new product every week and since Apple only has 4 legs of business — Mac, iPod, iPhone, and iPad — with the first not being a major consideration for the majority, the second dropping each year because of the iOS-based iDevices are dominating it, you really only have 2 categories that the market and media really care about. You can't have a new iPhone and IPhone released every week or even every month or every 3 months. It's unrealistic.

4) The worse thing Apple can do is to over extend themselves and dilute their brand by flooding the market with more product categories for the sake of it. They have the dominate mindshare so everything if already compared to an Apple product if Apple makes something in that category. Let's remember the time between the Mac and iPod and the iPod and iPhone. Just because the iPhone and iPad were only 3 years apart doesn't mean everything else can be this expedited.

5) What does the iPhone 5C have to prove? What did the iPhone 4S, or iPhone 4, or iPhone 4GS all have to prove in their second year? From what I've seen the numbers are impressive and I, anecdotally, see plenty of 5C's in public which is impressive because unlike any flagship product there is no reason for people to run out and get last year's HW.

6) Every time Apple releases a new OS update people complain. Your complaint that it "still needs serious tweaking" says nothing about what is wrong with it, but on this point I agree, because all OSes need serious tweaking. There are bugs to fix and refinements to be made constantly but I see nothing about Mavericks that would make it a bane to Mac users, hurt sales, or the stock price which is what your inclusion of Mavericks suggests.

1) Had Apple issued the Special Dividend it would've demonstrated it was a team player. Wall Street punished Apple for being a prima donna when the SD wasn't issued.

 

2) Yes, stocks fluctuate on emotion and Wall Street followed though by punishing Apple for the company's perceive arrogance. Apple could've staved off hitting the skids if it staggered its product releases to address the predictable annual new product drought between January and August every year -- but Apple didn't have the foresight to address Wall Street's overreaction.

 

3) It's time for Apple (and its apologists) to stop living in the past and address the present and the future. Everybody knows Apple's old game. Time for a new game plan re: product releases.

 

4) I agree and am not suggesting that.

 

5) I think the 5C has quite a lot to prove and it may well succeed. As an Apple pursuit I ( and many others) consider the design mediocre and the product a transparent grab for a market that may not exist. 

 

6) We can agree on that. Personally I'd like to see some tasteful skeuomorphic elements like the opening user screen integrated back into the OS.

 

I  criticize Apple out of my love for its products and in the belief the company can do better in some instances. Allow me to take this opportunity to wish all my fellow Apple lovers a happy and healthy New Year!


Edited by MJ Web - 12/29/13 at 11:35am
post #128 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63 View Post

Actually, they do. Pages, Numbers, Keynote... 1wink.gif

As for independent entrepreneurs, you have a mighty sense of entitlement going on there.

You haven't been following the thread. They are a software company so of course there are in house developers that get paid for Apple to make apps. I was talking those entrepreneur developers that on their own accord make a app to sell in the app store.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #129 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Did you not read where I wrote Apple needs devs and devs need Apple? But Apple doesn’t pay developers to make apps, they do it on their dime in hopes that they'll earn money in the app store, and even though Apple provides storage and handles the transaction they do nothing to ensure that a developer makes money, that's totally on them and if and when they do Apple makes money from them not for them.

Apple does nothing except provide large numbers of the most desirable devices, with a demographic that spends more money than any competitor platforms, the developer tools to create the app, and an online store to market that app.

 

Apple provides the opportunity. 

post #130 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Did you not read where I wrote Apple needs devs and devs need Apple? But Apple doesn’t pay developers to make apps, they do it on their dime in hopes that they'll earn money in the app store, and even though Apple provides storage and handles the transaction they do nothing to ensure that a developer makes money, that's totally on them and if and when they do Apple makes money from them not for them.

 

This whole argument reminded me of the last boss I ever had.

 

I was/am a graphic artist/desktop publisher. The guy who headed the company hated the fact that he had to pay the graphics department salaries because, in his opinion, we were a drain on the company's finances; we didn't actually earn any money for the company, per se. In his mind it was the sales people in the company who made the money. He'd come to the back every once in a while and say, "If it wasn't for the sales guys you guys wouldn't have a job."... and he could never get it through his head that without us, the sales guys would have nothing to sell. He just couldn't see it that way.

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post #131 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Apple made money from content providers, musicians, App developers, accessory makers, advertisers, oh, and lots of component suppliers.

Apple also made money from Google and Microsoft.

There fixed it for you.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #132 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I hope that's not a serious question. Safari frequently crashes on the iPad Air. And I'm being being kind to Apple when I use the word frequently.

i just don't have this Safari problem - on any device.

 

maybe i just don't go to ... those ... websites.

post #133 of 257
Thank you for the good laugh. I sure needed some comedy value today and this article sure provided it.
post #134 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's not my point. My point is that developers would make money with or without the walled garden, Apple doesn’t make the money for them.

No they wouldn't. If there were third party stores for iOS Apps nobody would use them over issues like security. Just like Android apologists keep saying "stick with Google Play and avoid third party app stores and you won't get malware."

Or another way to put it: I could install my vending machine at the entrance to Walmart and pay them a cut of sales, or I could put it on a side street somewhere and keep 100%.
post #135 of 257
N
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

There fixed it for you.
Now you sound like my kids. "I know you are but what am I?"

Do you have any actual points to make?
post #136 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post

If chamfered edges cut with polycrystalline diamonds is a fashion statement, then it is well placed within the design philosophy of the original iPhone that included, wait for this, a traditionally milled chamfer on the face frame.

Here's another theme. Obrounds. All over the place. Look especially at the Lightning connector; the physical body of the female connector is an obround the fits in another obround machined in the iPhone housing. That gives a high level manufacturing benefit as well as functional benefit that looks appropriate. Would that USB.org could think like that.

Fine patterns of laser cut holes; fashion, utility, manufacturing or all of those?

Apple has been building an evolution of iDevices since the iPod. While there are some design elements, color and surface finish for example, that point to fashion, most of what I see is a continuation of a form and function design philosophy espoused by Jony. This will continue with wearable devices, albeit some ornamental elements will be employed, but I hardly see fashion or ornamentation as driving the design; that's function, materials and manufacturability.

Angela will obviously be included in design sessions, but her primary job is to market those devices to the demographics that Apple appeals to, and even to those that don't. That's what she brings to the table.
I'm not suggesting Angela Ahrendts should be sitting in design meetings but I think she's the one who will need to be front and center from a marketing stand point. Joined at the hip with Schiller or maybe even replacing him in some cases.

And what I mean by fashion is making stuff people lust after. Yeah there might be a cheaper alternative but it's Apple's product people want because it looks beautiful, expensive classy, etc.
post #137 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

i just don't have this Safari problem - on any device.

maybe i just don't go to ... those ... websites.
Then you must rarely frequent this site. I just had two crashes within the last 10 minutes.
post #138 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Then you must rarely frequent this site. I just had two crashes within the last 10 minutes.

I've only ever had that issue with 10.9.0.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #139 of 257
As to Safari crashing I've noticed in on my 5S and Air on several sites, not just AI. It's a real issue and not something I expect from Apple. I attribute it to the change to 64bit and the growing pains caused by it.

One good thing is I now get to experience Android with the random crashes and force closes.

Twice just typing this single post from my 5S. 1smile.gif
post #140 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

N
Now you sound like my kids. "I know you are but what am I?"

Do you have any actual points to make?

Yes and my point is that Apple is not a altruistic company that makes money for others. They provided a platform in which content makers can make money for themselves and Apple. Saying that Apple makes money for them would suggest that Apple has failed those that don't make money
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #141 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I'm not suggesting Angela Ahrendts should be sitting in design meetings but I think she's the one who will need to be front and center from a marketing stand point. Joined at the hip with Schiller or maybe even replacing him in some cases.

And what I mean by fashion is making stuff people lust after. Yeah there might be a cheaper alternative but it's Apple's product people want because it looks beautiful, expensive classy, etc.

You aren't making your case at all.

 

Apple is already making beautiful devices, that look expensive without being ostentatious; that have an inherent value, a luxury item without the luxury cost. What more would you have them do, specifically?

post #142 of 257
This propaganda is sponsored by Tim Cook.
post #143 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

This whole argument reminded me of the last boss I ever had.

I was/am a graphic artist/desktop publisher. The guy who headed the company hated the fact that he had to pay the graphics department salaries because, in his opinion, we were a drain on the company's finances; we didn't actually earn any money for the company, per se. In his mind it was the sales people in the company who made the money. He'd come to the back every once in a while and say, "If it wasn't for the sales guys you guys wouldn't have a job."... and he could never get it through his head that without us, the sales guys would have nothing to sell. He just couldn't see it that way.

Or when Marge Schott complained that the only thing scouts did was watch baseball games.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #144 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Then you must rarely frequent this site. I just had two crashes within the last 10 minutes.

um ... this is post 1,350 ...

 

clearly there is something amiss with your set up (need more RAM?), a corrupted/bug/incompatible software, or your hardware.

post #145 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

This whole argument reminded me of the last boss I ever had.

 

I was/am a graphic artist/desktop publisher. The guy who headed the company hated the fact that he had to pay the graphics department salaries because, in his opinion, we were a drain on the company's finances; we didn't actually earn any money for the company, per se. In his mind it was the sales people in the company who made the money. He'd come to the back every once in a while and say, "If it wasn't for the sales guys you guys wouldn't have a job."... and he could never get it through his head that without us, the sales guys would have nothing to sell. He just couldn't see it that way.

He saw his sales guys as uniquely talented and you and your brethren as expendable commodities. Unless this company was in advertising, he probably had a point.

 

Why was it even necessary that he had to see it your way? You had a job, he paid you, jobs by definition have downsides but you probably gained experience and moved on.

 

Trust me, there are plenty of jobs that test a person's self worth on a daily basis. I've been self employed for a long time, but I've also had a variety of great and terrible jobs. Comes with capitalism.

post #146 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post
 

um ... this is post 1,350 ...

 

clearly there is something amiss with your set up (need more RAM?), a corrupted/bug/incompatible software, or your hardware.

 

Except that Rogifan isn't the only member who has been complaining about this.

 

My system is 5 years old... works fine for me. 

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post #147 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post
 

He saw his sales guys as uniquely talented and you and your brethren as expendable commodities. Unless this company was in advertising, he probably had a point.

 

Why was it even necessary that he had to see it your way? You had a job, he paid you, jobs by definition have downsides but you probably gained experience and moved on.

 

Trust me, there are plenty of jobs that test a person's self worth on a daily basis. I've been self employed for a long time, but I've also had a variety of great and terrible jobs. Comes with capitalism.

 

Obviously you missed the point... and from what you wrote it seems that there is no use in discussing it further... you just wouldn't get it.

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post #148 of 257
Well written and researched article. I enjoyed the read.
post #149 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Then you must rarely frequent this site. I just had two crashes within the last 10 minutes.

 

I had very frequent crashes on AI until I upgraded to 10.9.1.  On the Mac, at least, it was an OS problem, not AI, but it manifested only on AI.  I am no techie, so I cannot start to explain.

 

I don't use my iPad for posting so I don't know about that.  

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #150 of 257
Analysts can be found along the entire spectrum of views regarding companies. Basically they want your business and will tell the investors with the same disposition what they want to hear. Analysts jobs are simply to make money for themselves.
post #151 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post

You aren't making your case at all.

Apple is already making beautiful devices, that look expensive without being ostentatious; that have an inherent value, a luxury item without the luxury cost. What more would you have them do, specifically?
Keep doing it and don't be tempted to go low end no matter how often Wall Street says they need to.
post #152 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post

um ... this is post 1,350 ...

clearly there is something amiss with your set up (need more RAM?), a corrupted/bug/incompatible software, or your hardware.
How do I add more ram to my iPad Air? I turned off JavaScript but too many sites don't work right with it off.
post #153 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've only ever had that issue with 10.9.0.
It's an iOS issue. Hopefully 7.1 fixes it.
post #154 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Yes Apple takes 30% of what another party created and sold on Apple's platform hence they made Apple money. Apple wouldn't have made that 30% if someone didn't create the content/app/service.

& to Google there customers & their customers content are the product. Where is their cut of the profits?

post #155 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Except that Rogifan isn't the only member who has been complaining about this.

 

My system is 5 years old... works fine for me. 

Mavericks broke a lot of older software. and some old extensions in Safari don't work anymore either.

post #156 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


How do I add more ram to my iPad Air? I turned off JavaScript but too many sites don't work right with it off.

for iPads i just don't know. mine work fine.

 

does it crash even after a restart the kills all apps and clears memory?

post #157 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

& to Google there customers & their customers content are the product. Where is their cut of the profits?

Google pays Apple a set fee on a yearly basis. Last I heard it was one billion dollars.

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/news/apple-charges-google-1-billion-per-year-for-being-the-default-search-engine-on-its-devices-analyst-330228
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #158 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


That's not my point. My point is that developers would make money with or without the walled garden, Apple doesn’t make the money for them.

 

If you sell your product at a brick & mortar store do they take a cut? When Amazon sells products how do they profit? It is the developers choice to agree to those terms to be part of the App Store.  They don't have to be a part of it. What you seem to leave out are the expenses that developers would have to pay that they don't pay for being a part of the App Store.

post #159 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Google pays Apple a set fee on a yearly basis. Last I heard it was one billion dollars.

http://gadgets.ndtv.com/mobiles/news/apple-charges-google-1-billion-per-year-for-being-the-default-search-engine-on-its-devices-analyst-330228

I'm not sure what you are referring to. That has nothing to do with my statement. Google product is any person that uses their services. The consumer & the consumers data is the product.

post #160 of 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splif View Post

I'm not sure what you are referring to. That has nothing to do with my statement. Google product is any person that uses their services. The consumer & the consumers data is the product.

I understood that you asked me what's Apple's cut for Google's revenue, and the answer is that Google pays Apple a flat yearly rate instead of a percentage.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
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