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Google takes aim at Apple's 'iOS in the Car' with Audi-Android partnership - Page 2

post #41 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

You're all either full of shit, sarcastic, or your priorities when choosing a car are out of whack. 

I would suspect the latter. I was behind a BMW that was involved in a terrible accident. I ran up to the driver who had lost his whole left arm in the accident and he was bemoaning the damage to his "poor Beemer." I told him to refocus because he also just lost his left arm. He looked down, saw his missing arm and screamed, "OMG, where's my Rollex !!!"
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post #42 of 135
Android is what embedded Linux used to be: the starting point for building the brains of all kinds of devices. It's great to have for that purpose, and I expect to be using tons of "Android" devices in future whether I know it or not. Some will be well-designed.

That doesn't mean all those devices are "Android" in the sense any user or developer cares about, and I don't see this being much better in that regard.

In fact, I expect the ideal system in future will be an Android-based car computer (because what else would it be?) connected to an iPhone delivering iOS in the Car.

I have no interest in actual apps running ON the car itself--not from Google nor Apple. They can try to sell me on that concept, but I don't see it yet. I want the basic driving functions to work really well (maps, media, communication) and am happy to have my phone serve those applications, with the car being merely a UI for it.
post #43 of 135
Hugely disappointing. I was thinking of getting an Audi for my next car and this decreases the chances of me doing that significantly. I agree with other commenters, this is a huge misstep on Audi's part. I'm really disappointed with this. All I can hope is that they offer ios in the car as well, but something tells me that ain't gonna happen. I'm floored and saddened. 😩
post #44 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Bull. Nobody is considering Android for anything mission critical (like medical). QNX and other embedded OS's have those markets locked down. Android would be an utter joke used in something that was supposed to have high reliability and guaranteed up time.

You should do a bit more reading then. Would you like me to research it for you or can you do it yourself?
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post #45 of 135
Isn't Eddie Cue on the board of Porsche?
post #46 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello2014 View Post

So you're saying iOS shouldn't be in a Honda?

 

Ouch. Honda sells a $40K Accord Plug-in, btw. And a new NSX is coming, ftw.

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post #47 of 135
Ugh. The A7 was going to be my next car, about six months from now. They just lost a sale. 1hmm.gif
post #48 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Ouch. Honda sells a $40K Accord Plug-in, btw. And a new NSX is coming, ftw.

Actually, I think iOS should be an option for Honda based on what I've seen.

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post #49 of 135
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Originally Posted by Freshmaker View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

Maybe you are, or maybe you're not.  

 

Either way your priorities need to be fixed, clearly the drive of the car or other related attributes are missing from your check-list.

 



I know right? Crazy that some people claim to use the in-car OS as the deciding factor of whether or not to buy a vehicle, throwing out fuel economy, safety, styling, performance, etc. Certainly within their right, but very strange indeed.


Never knew Audi is the only car in the market!

 

Lot of great Cars around. Right?  If yes please shut your horizontal vagina :lol: 

post #50 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by helicopterben View Post

You can say we are full of MONEY lol.gif


I do not like to brag but dogs like you need to be known about it that we will do whatever we want with our money. Go get some life!
Maybe you are, or maybe you're not.  

Either way your priorities need to be fixed, clearly the drive of the car or other related attributes are missing from your check-list.

Stop being such a jerk. In that segment, there are some pretty darn good choices on all of the latter attributes.

(Pipped by helicopterben).
post #51 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I am surprised the Koreans didn't do it already. They can call it "Open Dashboard Alliance" with "Open" = "do what Google says or else."

It would be nice if the protocol(s) for connecting to any in-dash system was standardized in some way that mobile OS could connect to any call in the same way that (say) VNC is platform independent.

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post #52 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by gprovida View Post

I can see where Auto manufacturers would find Android OS integrated into their car as a way to garner control over the services, albeit, Google Android is notoriously not open when the apps compete with Google e.g., music, maps, search, etc. thereby compromising this control, ask SAMSUNG.

However, this is a very complicated endeavor where underlying infrastructure is important. A car has a 5 to 15 year lifespan and this means support in the software and hardware for nearly an order of magnitude time horizon greater time horizon for Android 18 months. Apple, albeit not yet in that time league, has a 4X time line support and infrastructure upgrades advantage of 3-5 years for iOS and OSX, respectively. For the auto manufacturer having the driver bring the device to the car, substantially reduces the lifecycle support challenges. Note, i do not mean to say it goes away, but sure is easier.

A big concern for the automobile manufacturers is going to be licensing costs, Nokia, Apple, Microsoft, etc. are aggressively pursuing licensing agreements or denial of patents when using Android. Google has not developed an IP strategy that reduces any liability, case in point HTC with Nokia bans in Germany, soon in the US and UK, Apple's successful IP lawsuits with Samsung and more to come on that, and Microsoft on Motorola.

It is easy to imagine a licensing cost for auto manufactures of $50 to $100 or more per car. This is a liability that must be on the minds of the car manufacturers.

So allowing a phone iOS, Windows Mobile 8, or Android to interact in a limited way with the car is certainly valuable to customers and since these are "bring your own device" relatively low cost and risk free, but Android as core OS in cars is much more problematical.

I think from a car mfg point of view it's more like carriers.  It's about having 'control' and a 'low price component' when it comes to this sort of thing.   

 

The problem with an outside device connecting to your car is that in 3 years, Apple can come up with a new and amazing thing that your make won't be compatible with and the cost for the new stuff is out of your hands.  Clients then evolve to another make and you're 'locked into' a decision to support apple forever. 

 

embedding android&HW in a car in 2014 is a fixed price for that year, and next year, the 2015 models could have MS, or Apple or whomever is the low bidder.   This is purely the mindset of Audi et al...

 

and I doubt it's a 'core' os (like one that is maintaining ignition and safety controls), and more the 'interface' control (The brakes will work if android BSOD's on you, you just won't be able use the google glass HUD that shows you where all the Starbucks are.

post #53 of 135
Amazing what the media will hype. Now we have iOS and Android war for the car. 1rolleyes.gif And not one media outlet questioning that report about Chromebook sales. 1rolleyes.gif
post #54 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


You should do a bit more reading then. Would you like me to research it for you or can you do it yourself?

 

Why read when this is my full-time job (working with embedded systems for automotive)? You want to start an in-depth discussion of all the current systems, which processors they're using, what software development platforms are common, what communications buses they employ, protocols used on those buses, which manufacturers use which systems or just anything related to automotive electronics?

 

Go on, ask away. Nothing generic please, be as detailed as possible. Or would you like me to ask you the questions instead, so we can test your knowledge?

 

Here's a couple to start you off...

 

On a CAN bus what voltages could you expect to see on the High and Low lines when referenced to vehicle ground using a multimeter? Why do you see these voltages? What about voltages in reference to each other? What will happen to the data patterns on the CAN lines if a short occurs between the two CAN lines themselves? What is it about how the CAN lines are electrically connected that causes this pattern? Will module on the CAN bus still be able to communicate when this happens?

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post #55 of 135

I agree, bring your own device is not a panacea over typical life of a car.  In your model the car gets shipped with a set of features, Android version x, and remains with this set for the next 5-15 years with the car manufacturer perhaps only obligated to do some egregious bug fixes, like MS Synch in Ford cars.  Albeit that model has been panned by pretty much anyone who reviews Sync in Fords, however, lets assume this is MS and Ford mismanagement.  This is consistent with people's general expectations in a car, what you get on day1 is what you get on day 3650.

 

Alternatively, you contractually require Apple for provide some subset of capabilities consistent with Day 1 and that this capability needs to be retained for 3650 days, albeit new capabilities can be added as part of the bring your own device.   This clearly puts a constraint on the degree and speed of innovation that Apple wants, 3 years for mobile and 5-6 years for MacOS.  

 

In either case, the lifecycle scales of automobiles and computers [mobile or fixed] is pretty incompatible by a factor of X8 for Android and X3 to X5 for Apple.  However, if iCloud or THE Cloud is where the magic happens, then the device [or car] just becomes a dumb interface to the Cloud and need not change much to provide Day1 and Day 3650 capabilities.  

 

It will be interesting so see how the very different business models and rhythms of change work across these technologies.  I wonder if AM, AM/FM, 8 track, cassette, CD, DVD, and now SiriusXM might reveal a workable pattern?

post #56 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Vulgar...Get some sleep, bro!
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

You're all either full of shit, sarcastic, or your priorities when choosing a car are out of whack. 
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

You're all either full of shit, sarcastic, or your priorities when choosing a car are out of whack. 
post #57 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

You're all either full of shit, sarcastic, or your priorities when choosing a car are out of whack. 

You are the one that's full of shit. You go buy a
Car that doesn't have the features you want. Make a comment about the article or go f*ck yourself.
post #58 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Why read when this is my full-time job (working with embedded systems for automotive)? You want to start an in-depth discussion of all the current systems, which processors they're using, what software development platforms are common, what communications buses they employ, protocols used on those buses, which manufacturers use which systems or just anything related to automotive electronics?

http://blog.vdcresearch.com/embedded_sw/2013/10/android-to-transform-medical-device-market.html
http://www.mentor.com/embedded-software/multimedia/using-android-in-automotive-systems-with-linux-containers
http://hsc.com/services/product-engineering-services/embedded-android/telematics
http://www.tgdaily.com/hardware-features/49743-report-gm-eyes-android-for-in-vehicle-telematics

Further, 16% of embedded engineers surveyed by UBM say they are already using Android as their OS of choice.
http://images.content.ubmtechelectronics.com/Web/UBMTechElectronics/%7Ba7a91f0e-87c0-4a6d-b861-d4147707f831%7D_2013EmbeddedMarketStudyb.pdf

Will it become commonplace to see Android used in embedded systems? I don't know. I do know that there's interest in Android for that market. You apparently would not be one of those with any interest.

You are right that I'm not an engineer myself so no need in wasting time failing your engineering knowledge test. Congrats to you tho on landing what's probably a pretty good paying job in an interesting and quickly changing field. I mean that sincerely.
Edited by Gatorguy - 12/30/13 at 12:59pm
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post #59 of 135
I see a lot of negative towards Android being in cars. How people are saying they won't buy a certain brand because of Android? Since when do people decide on their next car based on the OS? I know I buy a car based on the way it looks, number one. Never had been about the OS in it all these years, why now? Seems kind of silly to me.
post #60 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello2014 View Post

I see a lot of negative towards Android being in cars. How people are saying they won't buy a certain brand because of Android? Since when do people decide on their next car based on the OS? I know I buy a car based on the way it looks, number one. Never had been about the OS in it all these years, why now? Seems kind of silly to me.

To each his own... :) For me having an MS or Android product in my car is a deal killer.

 

I don't want to have to muck about with an MS product (Sync).  I had enough of MS in the nineties at work with PC's! Ugh! What a nightmare that was compared to my home Macs.

 

Best.

post #61 of 135
When people like myself refuse to consider Audi vehicles in the future, it will because of precisely the point you bring up.  How can I trust this automaker given its decision to integrate with an obviously inferior OS?  The answer is, I cannot and I will not.
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Android in Audi vehicles? What a major misstep and failure to understand their own customers. Android is the low-rent OS that mostly appears on crappy, cheap hardware. iOS appears only only the finest hardware. Clearly Audi products have more in common with Apple, and I am willing to bet their customers share very similar taste and economic advantages. Android belongs in Kia and Hyundai.
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post #62 of 135

This is a HUGE blunder for Audi.  I was ready to pull the trigger on another A8.  Now I will buy elsewhere.  If Audi did their homework they would know that the people with disposable income buy Apple products not cheap android crap.

post #63 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post

This is a HUGE blunder for Audi.  I was ready to pull the trigger on another A8.  Now I will buy elsewhere.  If Audi did their homework they would know that the people with disposable income buy Apple products not cheap android crap.

Unless Apple has done an about-face and decided to open up iOS how would you propose an embedded iOS telematics system make it into an Audi or BMW or Mercedes or any other auto for that matter. Buy the completed turn-key system from Apple? Not sure if that would be very cost-effective for them. Maybe Eric the Half Bee can comment on that. He's intimately involved in developing automotive systems and mighty know if Apple is perfectly willing to let manufacturers modify their OS's as need be for use in vehicles or if they're pretty well set on integrating existing iPhones into manufacturers own systems.

I don't think what Google and Audi envisions is the relatively simple connect-your-iPhone/iPad to access information that Apple has in mind with their "iOS in the Car" program. I believe Google (with Audi's assistance) is looking to establish industry standards, easing the way and speeding telematics developement for the industry as a whole. If they're successful it probably won't matter what your smartphone of choice is. They'll all work within the manufacturers built-in systems along with the apps they choose to offer.

They also might have bitten off too much which remains to be seen. Apple has a good idea too and their's may be much quicker and easier to implement being not as integrated. They also have a lot of support from other auto companies.
Edited by Gatorguy - 12/30/13 at 1:58pm
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post #64 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by hello2014 View Post

Never had been about the OS in it all these years, why now? Seems kind of silly to me.

Android is such a clunky OS that affects the entire car because all the technology within the car. Think about a car is more than 4 tires and an engine. Modern cars like Audi are lifestyle and leap ahead technology but with Android Audi downsizes the car. OK for years I bought Audi but Android changes my decision.
post #65 of 135

I think a lot of you are missing the bigger picture.  There is no way to put an Apple OS, be it OS X or iOS, in a car without Apple building the hardware.  Can any of you name a single instance of any Apple OS appearing on non-Apple hardware?

 

Beyond that, I don't think you'll see much of Android in the cars' UI.  With cars as they are now (actively driven by humans), there is no need for an app store or any of the typical Android user layer.  Whatever OS is in a car will be used primarily for low-level services like Bluetooth.  Using Android lets Audi take that basic service structure and add its own minimal driver-focused UI and whatever basic "apps" (radio controls, A/C controls, music interface, etc.) are needed in car.

 

Of course it's possible that navigation functions may be handled by Google maps, but that is an unequivocal improvement over the DVD-based navigation systems that are currently in cars regardless of whether you would prefer Apple maps.

post #66 of 135
Just wait until your Audi won't start because it has a virus. LOL. NOW Google can REALLY track your movements. Unbelievable misstep by Audi if this is true.
post #67 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I think a lot of you are missing the bigger picture.  There is no way to put an Apple OS, be it OS X or iOS, in a car without Apple building the hardware.  Can any of you name a single instance of any Apple OS appearing on non-Apple hardware?
You apparently missed Apple's iOS in the car announcement?
post #68 of 135
Automotive malware.

What a concept.
post #69 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigybank View Post


You apparently missed Apple's iOS in the car announcement?

 

That's not built into the car.  That's an interface for your iPhone.

post #70 of 135
I guess cheap LED lights aren't cutting it anymore. On to cheap phones. Very disappointing Audi.
post #71 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior View Post
 

An appropriate survey question, I believe: what percentage of Audi (or Porsche) owners own iOS devices vs. Android devices???

In March 2013, current Audi owners were asked "Which type of mobile/wireless phone do you use most for personal use?" Here are the results:

iPhone (60.3%), Android (23.4%), BlackBerry (7.0%), Windows Phone (2.8%). Source: Ad-ology AudienceSCAN, www.ad-ology.com

post #72 of 135
Rather disappointing. Audi is at the top of my list for potential car purchase when circumstances allow. If this comes through to reality by the time I am ready, Audi will no longer be in the list.
post #73 of 135
If you are going to spend money on a luxury car why would you use the budget phone? More importantly why would you risk your customer base with something as unstable as Android? If audi was catering to budget consumers, I could understand but its probably best to give people options here.
post #74 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigybank View Post

Just wait until your Audi won't start because it has a virus. LOL. NOW Google can REALLY track your movements. Unbelievable misstep by Audi if this is true.
im just not that hard up to let the nsa know what Im driving and where Im driving it all the time.
post #75 of 135
Previous points are spot on! I don't want android in my new Audi. My last 5 cars have been new Audi's, can't see me making it 6 if this news is correct.
post #76 of 135
Obviously a lot to do with quality map systems.
post #77 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post

In March 2013, current Audi owners were asked "[URL=]Which type of mobile/wireless phone do you use most for personal use?" Here are the results:[/URL]
iPhone (60.3%), Android (23.4%), BlackBerry (7.0%), Windows Phone (2.8%). Source: Ad-ology AudienceSCAN, www.ad-ology.com

If they went with an iOS in the Car solution then 40% of their buyers couldn't use it, restricted to Apple devices. Is that correct? I think the expectation would be that an Android-based one would work with nearly all smart-device OS's and not just Android thus being more usable to a broader range of Audi buyers. I doubt anyone would even realize it's Android unless someone told them so.
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post #78 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

im just not that hard up to let the nsa know what Im driving and where Im driving it all the time.

You'll really dislike this revelation then. There is no "safe" mobile platform that I'm aware of.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/12/30/nsa-worked-on-iphone-spyware-to-remotely-monitor-users-leaked-documents-show
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post #79 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If they went with an iOS in the Car solution then 40% of their buyers couldn't use it, restricted to Apple devices. Is that correct? I think the expectation would be that an Android-based one would work with nearly all smart-device OS's and not just Android thus being more usable to a broader range of Audi buyers. I doubt anyone would even realize it's Android unless someone told them so.

I truly doubt the Android solution will work with 60% of those polled.
post #80 of 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by leesmith View Post

In March 2013, current Audi owners were asked "[URL=]Which type of mobile/wireless phone do you use most for personal use?" Here are the results:[/URL]
iPhone (60.3%), Android (23.4%), BlackBerry (7.0%), Windows Phone (2.8%). Source: Ad-ology AudienceSCAN, www.ad-ology.com

Only makes sense. Premium car buyers buy premium products, not Android.

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