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Apple says it was unaware of NSA's iPhone spying, vows to defend customers' privacy - Page 2

post #41 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickers View Post
 

 

Isn't Steve-O one of the people who said something to the effect of, "if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about"?

Maybe you are thinking of Larry Ellison, who has openly defended the NSA spying as "essential." http://www.examiner.com/article/oracle-ceo-larry-ellison-praises-nsa-program-as-essential

post #42 of 78
...why doesn't apple insider require a credit card to authenticate? That way when these trolls post you blacklist the card associated with the acct. trolls will eventually run out of cards.

As it stands now, you kill one user acct, they make another
post #43 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

...why doesn't apple insider require a credit card to authenticate? That way when these trolls post you blacklist the card associated with the acct. trolls will eventually run out of cards.

As it stands now, you kill one user acct, they make another

I think that would prevent a lot of people from posting who simply don't want every site to have access their CCs or real names.

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post #44 of 78
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post
As it stands now, you kill one user acct, they make another

 

And that’s a piece of cake to detect if you can put the effort into detecting it. Not everyone’s schedules are free enough to do a run through the recurring accounts in the morning, but I did it before. 

post #45 of 78
Physical access isn't needed to jailbreak a phone, so I would argue it should not be needed to install a NSA backdoor, either.

D
post #46 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And that’s a piece of cake to detect if you can put the effort into detecting it. Not everyone’s schedules are free enough to do a run through the recurring accounts in the morning, but I did it before. 

Maybe. Just automate it. In fact, make it part of the verification process when u sign up. New user? Yes. Does credit card match a banned one? Yes. Stop new acct process.

Eventually it'll be cost prohibitive and time consuming for these guys to troll the site. FFS they don't even try to hide that they're trolling anymore. They just start blurting BS w no coherence
post #47 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I think that would prevent a lot of people from posting who simply don't want every site to have access their CCs or real names.

Possibly but I think there are ALOT of regulars here that would welcome that extra security.
post #48 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

Possibly but I think there are ALOT of regulars here that would welcome that extra security.

Extra security? How would visiting AI be made more secure if a credit check were done on every member as you're suggesting?
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post #49 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post


Prove that it is or go away. Isn't that how I've been treated here for some time now? I've listed proof and evidence in abundance and told to just go away. People in this forum want to hide from the evidence...hide from the truth... Tim Cook only cares about soaking you dry in the name of profit. He's not Jobs. Jobs had conviction. Cook just wants to make money.

Rooted Android? Since there are so many players, they'd be quite busy. Since Google writes it, OEMS fine tune it and add hardware support, and providers add their mods and sign off on the code, they've got their work cut out. Android developer community is so all over this stuff, rooters would be rid of it in days. If it comes out that despite the roadblocks, they did, I'll root and rid myself of it quickly.

It might not be Android but Windows NT had a file that directly talked to the NSA if the machine was on the internet. The fix was reasonably simple. Create a blank text file using a hex editor and make sure it was exactly 4KB in size.

 

If the NSA had this stuff back in the 90's in one of the most major "secure" operating systems on the planet at the time what makes you think that Android doesn't have it being the most "open" operating system on the planet today?

 

Android has so much malware on the platform there is no denying it would be relatively trivial for the NSA to hack it WITHOUT physical access to the phone. iOS NEEDS physical access because the OS is locked down so much to prevent this from happening.

 

The only reason Android isn't discussed is because the entire document is about iOS not any other OS. If it was all about Apple then why is the Mac not also included in this document?

 

I guess it's too much to ask fandroids to use a little something called CONTEXT but hey, you've got to keep the shiny turds looking shiny I guess.

post #50 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

...why doesn't apple insider require a credit card to authenticate? That way when these trolls post you blacklist the card associated with the acct. trolls will eventually run out of cards.

As it stands now, you kill one user acct, they make another

Nah a better idea would be to charge their credit cards $100 for every troll post they make. Then when they go to buy their next Android/Windows device they can't because they have no money.

post #51 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Extra security? How would visiting AI be made more secure if a credit check were done on every member as you're suggesting?

Not credit check. U submit a credit card attached to your acct. that's no different than if it was a pod site except you're not paying anything
post #52 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryn Lowe View Post

Nah a better idea would be to charge their credit cards $100 for every troll post they make. Then when they go to buy their next Android/Windows device they can't because they have no money.

Lol. I prefer they buy that next POS. They don't deserve to own an idevice
post #53 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

Not credit check. U submit a credit card attached to your acct. that's no different than if it was a pod site except you're not paying anything

So any old made-up 10 digit number should work since you wouldn't do a credit verification? OK then. Sounds like a plan.

And again why that would make AI more secure for it's members even if credit cards were checked and verified as belonging to the person registering which of course would require their real name and real address too?
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post #54 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

So any old made-up 10 digit number should work since you wouldn't do a credit verification? OK then. Sounds like a plan.

And again why that would make AI more secure for it's members even if credit cards were checked and verified as belonging to the person registering which of course would require their real name and real address too?

I think I lost you.

Problem
Trolls flooding AI. When the accts are determined to be troll owned, they are deleted. Trolls then simply create another acct and continue their rants

Solution
All accts have a credit card on file that can be verified as being active(see pay pal as an example). If credit card is attached to a troll acct that card is blacklisted and the troll acct is denied login access to post on AI. IF a new acct attempts to use that credit blacklisted card, the AI acct is denied.
post #55 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

I think I lost you.

Problem
Trolls flooding AI. When the accts are determined to be troll owned, they are deleted. Trolls then simply create another acct and continue their rants

Solution
All accts have a credit card on file that can be verified as being active(see pay pal as an example). If credit card is attached to a troll acct that card is blacklisted and the troll acct is denied login access to post on AI. IF a new acct attempts to use that credit blacklisted card, the AI acct is denied.

This would simply not happen. Too much cost for AI and they risk losing a lot of their forum members. For every troll that signs up there are probably at least 100 valid posters. How many of them are going to hand over their CC data to a site they may have never heard or read before? And what about stolen CC numbers? If there really are paid shills from China and Korea posting anti-Apple comments why wouldn't they use stolen cards to sign up?

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post #56 of 78
No Apple discussion forum will ever require a verified credit card for admission. For a number of reasons no one in their right mind would sign up. AI already has verification methods at their disposal as do other forums,.Introducing yet another risk to your credit information being stolen is hardly a good idea and certainly doesn't enhance user security. It would be one of those cases where the cure is worse than the disease.
Edited by Gatorguy - 1/1/14 at 12:43pm
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post #57 of 78
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post
Just automate it. In fact, make it part of the verification process when u sign up. New user? Yes. Does credit card match a banned one? Yes. Stop new acct process.

 

Nope. Never going to happen.

 

I know that I’d never sign up, not the least of which because I don’t have, don’t want, and will never use a credit card.

 

Huddler already flags a returning IP when a new user signs up on it, and it has… fair early post filtering. If a post matches flagged content, it just won’t show up at all until a moderator approves it or bans the associated account.

 

Thing is that’s mainly for spam, but the IP matching is universal. There are much better tools than that for instant recognition, but we can’t have these morons knowing everything, can we. ;)

post #58 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don’t have, don’t want, and will never use a credit card.

Wow! I knew you were special, but you now are the first American / US resident that I know who hasn't got a credit card. And that's probably a good things!

Totally OT, carry on.
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post #59 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This would simply not happen. Too much cost for AI and they risk losing a lot of their forum members. For every troll that signs up there are probably at least 100 valid posters. How many of them are going to hand over their CC data to a site they may have never heard or read before? And what about stolen CC numbers? If there really are paid shills from China and Korea posting anti-Apple comments why wouldn't they use stolen cards to sign up?

I say a lot. I post on a motorcycle forum and they require a credit card. Annual subscription. Free for folks that want to browse. Cost to be able to post.

Make it add free for incentive. But getting rid of that 1% troll would be worth it IMO. Trolls degrade the value of the site...high jacking an otherwise informative conversion on apple
post #60 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

This would simply not happen. Too much cost for AI and they risk losing a lot of their forum members. For every troll that signs up there are probably at least 100 valid posters. How many of them are going to hand over their CC data to a site they may have never heard or read before? And what about stolen CC numbers? If there really are paid shills from China and Korea posting anti-Apple comments why wouldn't they use stolen cards to sign up?

I say a lot. I post on a motorcycle forum and they require a credit card. Annual subscription. Free for folks that want to browse. Cost to be able to post.

Make it add free for incentive. But getting rid of that 1% troll would be worth it IMO. Trolls degrade the value of the site...high jacking an otherwise informative conversion on apple

 

It's really not necessary.  The trolls are here (as everywhere) to annoy us and draw attention to themselves.  It's much better just to ignore them (which removes their raison d'être) and let the mods deal with them (which eventually removes their accounts).  Not as quickly as when TS was on their case, but eventually.

post #61 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

I say a lot. I post on a motorcycle forum and they require a credit card. Annual subscription. Free for folks that want to browse. Cost to be able to post.

Make it add free for incentive. But getting rid of that 1% troll would be worth it IMO. Trolls degrade the value of the site...high jacking an otherwise informative conversion on apple

See now you're adding in other variables like a paid subscription that would also make it ad-free. I would probably use that service with AI if I could pay via PayPal, not directly with a CC. That said, I don't think that anyone who wants to posts should be required to use a CC. There are just too many valuable posters I think this forum would lose if that happened.

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post #62 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post


Maybe. Just automate it. In fact, make it part of the verification process when u sign up. New user? Yes. Does credit card match a banned one? Yes. Stop new acct process.

Eventually it'll be cost prohibitive and time consuming for these guys to troll the site. FFS they don't even try to hide that they're trolling anymore. They just start blurting BS w no coherence

Why would any site that generates revenue from ads limit membership? Think about it.

 

Furthermore, why would anyone in his right mind encourage submission of credit card info? Would you really submit your CC info just to participate in a forum, what with so many organizations with more resources than Appleinsider losing CC info to hackers? Think, man. Think.

post #63 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

See now you're adding in other variables like a paid subscription that would also make it ad-free. I would probably use that service with AI if I could pay via PayPal, not directly with a CC. That said, I don't think that anyone who wants to posts should be required to use a CC. There are just too many valuable posters I think this forum would lose if that happened.
Ok. Fair enough
post #64 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post

Why would any site that generates revenue from ads limit membership? Think about it.

Furthermore, why would anyone in his right mind encourage submission of credit card info? Would you really submit your CC info just to participate in a forum, what with so many organizations with more resources than Appleinsider losing CC info to hackers? Think, man. Think.

The end goal is limiting trolls...via cc validation
post #65 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

Ok. Fair enough

Long before any of us were born and long after we die there will be services that cater to those that are willing to pay for it. I don't think AI is the right place for your idea but you may want to follow app.net. If you haven't heard about it it's basically Twitter for those that were willing to pay for it. It's changed someone since its inception and i never hear anyone talk of it these days.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmythe00 View Post

The end goal is limiting trolls...via cc validation

I think that would just limit regular users more and keep shill/trolls in control. It would be the beginning of the end for AI.

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post #66 of 78
Apple lies they know they happily went along with the nsa giving them whatever info they wanted
post #67 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryn Lowe View Post
 

The only reason Android isn't discussed is because the entire document is about iOS not any other OS. If it was all about Apple then why is the Mac not also included in this document?

 

I guess it's too much to ask fandroids to use a little something called CONTEXT but hey, you've got to keep the shiny turds looking shiny I guess.

 

The context is back in 2008 there was no Android.

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post #68 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post
 

 

The context is back in 2008 there was no Android.

There were Macs.

post #69 of 78
Originally Posted by tsmallz2012 View Post
Apple lies they know they happily went along with the nsa giving them whatever info they wanted

 

So either provide proof of this or shut up.

post #70 of 78

And, everyone seems to miss that Apple hired a former Naval Intelligence officer as their head of global security in 2011. Guess where the NSA farms a lot of their personnel from and has close ties to… Naval Intelligence:

http://www.cbronline.com/news/security/apple-hires-former-navy-cryptologist-david-rice-as-global-security-director-240111

post #71 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by smaffei View Post

And, everyone seems to miss that Apple hired a former Naval Intelligence officer as their head of global security in 2011. Guess where the NSA farms a lot of their personnel from and has close ties to… Naval Intelligence:

http://www.cbronline.com/news/security/apple-hires-former-navy-cryptologist-david-rice-as-global-security-director-240111

Smoking gun smoked out?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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GOA

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post #72 of 78

The NSA's approach to most hacking into protected environments/data streams has largely been pretty simple and smart (as I understand from the little I have read): they try to get access to the private keys protecting the data. E.g. they have a plant in some organisation (say Google) that gets access to the private key, and from that moment on they can do whatever the owner of the private key can do (e.g. look inside the SSL-protected connection between the user and Google). If the NSA gets access to Apple's private keys, they can pose as Apple and I suspect that an iPhone listens when Apple is trying to communicate with it (e.g. software updates, malware signature updates, etc.).

 

The NSA (as I interpret it from what I have read about Snowden's leak in the press) has a large database of private keys it can deploy to access encrypted data. Why try to break the lock if you can steal the key? It will have keys from most major providers (email, phone). The whole private/public key system has been compromised because they (logically) attacked its only real weak point: the private key.

 

The fact that they need physical access suggests that Apple has been able to protect their private keys well enough and/or that iOS has been built in such a way that even with a private key from Apple it is impossible to get anything installed without the user being informed about an update (and if that happens, suspicious people will soon find out they're the only one getting that update).

post #73 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by smaffei View Post

And, everyone seems to miss that Apple hired a former Naval Intelligence officer as their head of global security in 2011. Guess where the NSA farms a lot of their personnel from and has close ties to… Naval Intelligence:

http://www.cbronline.com/news/security/apple-hires-former-navy-cryptologist-david-rice-as-global-security-director-240111

What does that prove? If Apple really was working with the NSA to put in backdoors then why hire anyone instead of just letting their developers add in backdoors or giving the NSA the source code so they can find the backdoors on their own. Apple publicly hiring someone who is familiar with security shows Apple caress about security (or a the very least cares about the public perception of caring about security) which is pretty much the exact opposite the picture you are trying to paint.
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/2/14 at 9:38am

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post #74 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


What does that prove? If Apple really was working with the NSA to put in backdoors then why hire anyone instead of just letting their developers add in backdoors or giving the NSA the source code so they can find the backdoors on their own. Apple publicly hiring someone who is familiar with security shows Apple caress bout security, or a the very least cares about a public perception of caring about security which is pretty much the exact opposite the picture you are trying to paint.

 

It proves more of a direct connection with the US intelligence world than anyone else in this forum has been able to unearth. And don't be naive, ALL of those people in the intelligence community know each other. The NSA has had direct influence with Apple security once this guy was hired. 

post #75 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by smaffei View Post

It proves more of a direct connection with the US intelligence world than anyone else in this forum has been able to unearth.

And PA Semi had government contracts. It doesn't prove anything about collusion, backdoors, or violating the rights of citizens.

Quote:
And don't be naive, ALL of those people in the intelligence community know each other.

Seriously? Funny how phrases like that switch from being used by racists and bigots to conspiracy theorists so easily*. Someone should look into this phenomenon¡
Quote:
The NSA has had direct influence with Apple security once this guy was hired.

Source?



* I could have drawn a conclusion that you must be a racist and a bigot because I'm able to draw a tangential link between your words and that of racists and bigots but such connections are common and we, humans, are very adapt at apophenia but we need to not let it get the better of us.

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post #76 of 78
As if the intelligence community is not a breed unto themselves (and you knew what I meant).

But, if we're going to drag in racism and other bollocks to diffuse an interesting coincidence I brought up (and there are no coincidences when intelligence work is involved), then this is over. I won't play this petty game of yours. You win. Feel better?
post #77 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by smaffei View Post
 
As if the intelligence community is not a breed unto themselves (and you knew what I meant).

But, if we're going to drag in racism and other bollocks to diffuse an interesting coincidence I brought up (and there are no coincidences when intelligence work is involved), then this is over. I won't play this petty game of yours. You win. Feel better?

 

I'm impressed that Soli even bothered to take the time to dismantle your dismal excuse for an argument, of which not one single aspect made any sense. "Breed unto themselves"? Like Edward Snowden then? And you think Apple hired this guy why, precisely? Obviously because, unlike you, they just couldn't figure out that his real motive was to undermine their security, or maybe they just didn't check his references?

 

Just stop parading your ignorant presumptions about "the intelligence community" (which is not, and has never been, a cohesive entity) and all who ever worked in it.

post #78 of 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by smaffei View Post

As if the intelligence community is not a breed unto themselves (and you knew what I meant).

1) No, I clearly didn't know you meant to say something completely difference in your next post.

2) If saying "all of those people […] know each other" isn't a lumping mechanism that involves no real thought or consideration but instead a common idiom that I'm oddly not familiar then you didn't help your position.
Quote:
But, if we're going to drag in racism and other bollocks to diffuse an interesting coincidence I brought up (and there are no coincidences when intelligence work is involved), then this is over. I won't play this petty game of yours. You win. Feel better?

So which is it? A coincidence or not? Let me remind you stated "the NSA has had direct influence with Apple security once this guy was hired."

Note that you didn't say "Apple hired someone who was familiar with security to help better their security." You didn't say "Apple hired someone from the Navy because they were the best candidate for the job." You didn't even say "I think Apple may have hired this person because they could have intimate knowledge of how the US security works or who has close ties to the NSA and other agencies which could help keep Apple's devices more protected."

You also made no mention to the original info being from 2008 and this guy was hired in 2011 or why Apple would need to publicly hire someone from the Navy in order to let the NSA spy on their customers. All you've done is draw the conclusion that paints the worst light without any regard for proof and ignored all common sense if it interfered with your conspirical conclusion.

It's perfectly fine to come at something with a hypothesis. And it's perfectly reasonable for you to think "I wonder if this hire is proof that Apple is in bed with the NSA and allowing them to snoop in on every person with an Apple device." But what isn't reasonable is that you have taken your first apophenial thought and maneuvered or removed facts to fit your hypothesis instead of trying to put any real effort into coming to an honest and objective conclusion. As a man of science this sickens me to the core.

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