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Analyst predicts Apple will transform notebook market with 12-inch hybrid 'iPad Pro' this fall - Page 2

post #41 of 217
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Originally Posted by AWilliams87 View Post
 

"chipmaker ARM, which makes the reference designs for Apple's A-series chips. "

 

I never knew ARM was a chipmaker :/

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post #42 of 217
With Tim Cook at the helm, things can only go downhill from here on in. He really appears clueless about cash hoards and revenue streams.
post #43 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


There's a reason the current iPad was renamed iPad Air, and the current MacBook Airs don't have retina displays. Apple has something cooking. But if Apple comes out with a hybrid device after Tim Cook has been shitting on them for the past two years then I think we'll know its time for Tim to go.

 

Steve pooped all over the idea of a "video iPod" and they did pretty good with that when they decided to go ahead with the concept.

Ditto with ignoring Steve on the "nobody reads anymore" statement & reading on the iPad. 

post #44 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I don't give a wang about his predictions, but a hybrid will never be done by Apple. Never.

I vehemently disagree. People said the same thing about tablets.

 

Apple did do a tablet. But they did it the right way, which was completely different from how anyone else tackled it.

 

I am not saying Apple will do a hybrid. What I am saying is that they are almost certainly looking at how to do a tablet, and if they do a tablet, it will have something different which makes it viable.

 

In fact, Apple has already been building towards a workable hybrid through iCloud, IMO. You have a hybrid which when detached from the keyboard/trackpad gives you an iOS interface, but a Mac OS X interface when plugged in. At the same time, it uses a local iCloud server to ensure that files in equivalent Mac OS X and iOS apps are completely in sync.

post #45 of 217
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

It'll make sense to you when the internals and screen are higher specced than what's in the iPad Air.  

 

No, that’s not how it works.

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post #46 of 217
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Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

No, that’s not how it works.

 

How do you think it'll work?  That's how it works for the Macbook Air and Pro so I'm merely extrapolating.

post #47 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

I vehemently disagree. People said the same thing about tablets.

Apple did do a tablet. But they did it the right way, which was completely different from how anyone else tackled it.

I am not saying Apple will do a hybrid. What I am saying is that they are almost certainly looking at how to do a tablet, and if they do a tablet, it will have something different which makes it viable.

In fact, Apple has already been building towards a workable hybrid through iCloud, IMO. You have a hybrid which when detached from the keyboard/trackpad gives you an iOS interface, but a Mac OS X interface when plugged in. At the same time, it uses a local iCloud server to ensure that files in equivalent Mac OS X and iOS apps are completely in sync.

I completely agree. They won't make a hybrid as we have seen; they could make something that could be designated as a hybrid, but 'not as we know it'.
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post #48 of 217

I see this replacing the MacBook Air lineup. And good riddance...what a worthless netbook. 

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post #49 of 217
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Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I see this replacing the MacBook Air lineup. And good riddance...what a worthless netbook. 

All netbooks are pretty worthless. Good thing the MBA isn't a netbook.
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post #50 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


All netbooks are pretty worthless. Good thing the MBA isn't a netbook.

 

Its pretty much a netbook IMO. Apple just renamed the category. There isn't much you can do on a MacBook that you can't do on an iPad. 

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post #51 of 217
I want a full Mac computer with full file-system access, standard ports like USB, etc (whatever form factor), not a limited, jailed and crippled iOS toy (whatever form factor).
post #52 of 217
Why wouldn't you want the "option" of a touch optimized OS X. It doesn't mean you have to use it. As for touch optimized, many of the apps are already there, Microsoft is touch optimizing (if we can call it that) many of their apps, others will follow of course. So why not. Seems like a logical step to merge the user experience between iOS and OS X. Besides, I would not under estimate what Apple is capable of. You might actually like it.
post #53 of 217
I think everything is about iOS and the journey to it as it evolves - the more processing power in an iPad will allow current desktop only programs to be written and adapted for use on iOS. Eg. Final cut.

If a larger pad is coming - that might also be an enabler from a usability stance in that there's a lot of stuff on screen.

Music workstation programmes I use like reason and Logic Pro x need a larger screen to work with even after changing the ui to work touch.

It's interesting how an iPad mini can now be used with Logic Pro x on the mac as a slave control panel, music keyboard and drum input - you could say this is the beginning of a move to iOS.

Keyboards can be used with iOS, even though it's all about touch. The main thing keeping pcs alive are the programs that are too demanding to possibly be used on an iPad today.
post #54 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post
 

 

Its pretty much a netbook IMO. Apple just renamed the category. There isn't much you can do on a MacBook that you can't do on an iPad. 

 

I don't see where you're going.  An iPad isn't a netbook either, and there is huge software differentiation between the iPad and the Macbook.

post #55 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Its pretty much a netbook IMO. Apple just renamed the category. There isn't much you can do on a MacBook that you can't do on an iPad.

Well I wouldn't want to start converting my pristine H.264 video's to VP9 on a MBA, but the laptop sure has its value. To many. And the iPad is a complete different device, for complete different uses. I hardly see any overlap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landcruiser View Post

Microsoft is touch optimising...

'out of touch' in optimising, you mean. Really, when has MS ever optimised anything that enhanced the user experience?
Quote:
Seems like a logical step to merge the user experience between iOS and OS X.

This I cannot see. At all. iOS is finger-based / optimised. OSX is mouse-based / optimised. So no.
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post #56 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

So you think iOS can replace OS X?

For the masses - yes. There will be demands for laptop/ desktops for years to come and osx isn't going away anytime soon.

As the horsepower under iOS improves, companies producing more resource demanding apps will be enabled to make the crossover.

Think about it - apples business direction quote "we are in a post PC era"
post #57 of 217
I have a feeling whatever Apple is cooking will involve iOS, not make OSX touch based. There's plenty Apple can do on the iOS side of the house...user accounts, better inter-app communication, opening up Siri and Touch Id to developers, etc. I'd personally like to see changes to iOS before making OSX touch based.
post #58 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I don't give a wang about his predictions, but a hybrid will never be done by Apple. Never.

I tend to agree with you. However, IF Apple would to make a hybrid, they will do it in a way far different and better than the Surface.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #59 of 217
I think I know what they are up to - or at least what they should do.

Just adding bluetooth mouse support to ios will make the ipad a perfect thin client to connect to a Mac or PC via RDP. Then you have both an ipad and a traditional computer in one device.

Imagine Apple selling a subscription to a Mac virtual machine via their cloud services with the new ipad pro (ios with mouse support).
post #60 of 217
I welcome a larger iPad Pro. Bring it on, I'd buy one on day one. Smaller tablets, like the Mini, have their uses, and a larger tablet like the iPad Pro would also find many good uses. Make it powerful, make it sexy, and make it more expensive, as that would keep some of the riff raff away.

Just one thing, Apple had better not release any crappy, failed and doomed "convertible" device.

What the hell is wrong with you? Go buy a Surface tablet, if you have an ugly fetish. Don't expect Apple to accommodate your ugly fetish. And sorry, (the not made for touch) OS X on an iPad is just a dumb idea.

I want a larger iPad, but if Apple releases any sort of "convertible" crap, then I will definitely not be getting one, because I don't have brain damage, and I can actually afford both a laptop and a desktop and a tablet. If you can't, then look into PC convertibles, as there are many out there to suit your kind and your desires, no matter how questionable and repugnant they may be. I believe that Apple is smart enough to realize that "convertibles" are pure crap, and they are not the kind of devices that Apple should be making.
post #61 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I have a feeling whatever Apple is cooking will involve iOS, not make OSX touch based. There's plenty Apple can do on the iOS side of the house...user accounts, better inter-app communication, opening up Siri and Touch Id to developers, etc. I'd personally like to see changes to iOS before making OSX touch based.

Apple's future is with iOS. Making OSX touch-enabled is such a bad idea; there's no word for it. MS is already seeing the problem in that no one is writing touch-aware software for Surface Pro (other then themselves). Why? Because the huge installed base of PCs are not touch enabled.

And why should enterprise happily switch to touch-aware hardware when they are just now implementing a conversion to Windows 7 (a touch-dumb) OS.? Microsoft really thought that Windows 8 would force a world wide PC upgrade during a down-cycle of the economy. In that , MS has failed completely. Touch, on a desktop is a fad idea. It doesn't work well with large screens or multiple screens and raises the cost of the hardware with no payback.

The only problem I can see for iOS is the file and folder metaphor is something people need evolve away from to be comfortable with iOS. It's a highly ingrained metaphor and there seems to be a fraction of the populace that can't quite make the transition...
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #62 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


There's a reason the current iPad was renamed iPad Air, and the current MacBook Airs don't have retina displays. Apple has something cooking. But if Apple comes out with a hybrid device after Tim Cook has been shitting on them for the past two years then I think we'll know its time for Tim to go.

There is a reason for Apple to maintain distinct 'choices' and not cloud the decisions of it's client base.   You want a 'phone' or a 'tablet' but you don't see apple making their clients brain hurt with 'phablet'  . And I'll double down against any crossing that chasm in that direction.  

 

I will bet you that there will crossover points... big phone (6") and small tablet (8"),   Big tablet (12"), Small laptop (13"), dedicated media center (iTV) and shared device (iMac).

 

The long game is that iOS7 will become more and more 'multi-user'/'multi-tasking,' things that OSX has now, but other than skin consistencies, nothing from iOS will move to OSX

 

Evolving a 'touch' OSX is highly unlikely.  Highly.   

 

The end end game is iOS being a 'display server' of  apps (think Xwindows).  now where those apps are (in your house, or in the cloud) is a transition that is happening now

 

And unless there is some compelling reason, I can't see OSX as a consumer marketed platform growing...  The 'money' will be subscription services into the cloud.

 

Look at the distinct devices that could be in the apple stable...  If you were going to have to kill a couple... which have the lowest return on investment in the long term....   I would argue that Apple will kill off OSX as a consumer grade OS.   I could be wrong... but in 10 years, my guess is Apple will not be the laptop business, and likely will eliminate  the  Mini for an embedded OSX server in some 'home server'  platform.

 

-wearable (sub iOS)

iPodShuffle

iWatch

iPod Nano+ (bigger than a Watch...  smaller than a Touch - Video).

-pocket (iOS)

iPhone

iPadMiniRD

-portfolio (mobile iOS office)

iPadAir

iPad(Big/Pro) (speculation)

-brief/backpack/mobile OSX

MBA(sans rd)

MBPrd

-desk (OSX)

iMac

Mac Pro

Mac mini

-Home Server

AppleTV (Serves TV access)

Entertainment Center ('iTV' - merger of iTMS, cable TV, DVD, Music/HomeTheater)

Time Capsule (and eventually a mesh caching server for all things 'iXxxx' )

-Cloud

Virtual OSX (Mac in the cloud)

iCloud iDentity  (Secure Micropayment commerce based on TouchID and AppleID for all of the below )

iCloud Apps (current iOffice suites...)

iCloud Disk (disk in the cloud, mirroring, backup,

iCloud Music (Match, radio, personal, band/musician services)

iCloud Video (static movies, TV 'timeshifting', iMovie)

iCloud TV (live TV, 'content programming')

iCloud 'Books'  (what ever books evolve into - iCloud 'knowledge packaging')

iCloud Meetings  (broadcast FaceTime)

iCloud Classroom (Facetime plus keynote, plus collaboration)

iCloud Small Office (secure group iCloud services)

 

 

post #63 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I welcome a larger iPad Pro. Bring it on, I'd buy one on day one. Smaller tablets, like the Mini, have their uses, and a larger tablet like the iPad Pro would also find many good uses. Make it powerful, make it sexy, and make it more expensive, as that would keep some of the riff raff away.

 

No one in this forum, or any other forum, gave a convincing reason to what would make an iPad so "Pro". We've all used one, what feature do you want to see that would make it a Pro? is it a keyboard? What applications do you expect to use on a Pro iPad? Photoshop? Should it have an external drive?

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post #64 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

 

I think ASUS was the one that nailed down the hybrid device with their 2-in-1 design (ref. Transformer devices).  The Surface is a bit of a mess.

True Dat - on both counts.

post #65 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post
 

I vehemently disagree. People said the same thing about tablets.

 

Apple users always knew there was a tablet coming. In 2004 Steve Jobs said that the technology wasn't ready yet for a tablet and he listed what needed to happen for Apple to make a tablet, but people never expected it to run iOS :)

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post #66 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

 

More expensive?  Intel Core i3/i5/i7 Y-series devices are from $600 and up.  And that's the current Haswell, this will be facing Broadwell.

 
Well, I think that it'll be more than $499, as that is what the current iPad costs. 
 
Apple shouldn't be too concerned with price, when it comes to the iPad Pro. I don't give a crap about Intel Core chips. I already have those in laptops and desktops. I want a big, powerful iPad. This would be the iPad Pro, not the iPad amateur. Make it fully featured, give it a lot of RAM, and a powerful A8 chip. Price conscious people can always opt for the smaller iPads. 
post #67 of 217
When 'hybrid' is translated to multiple apps in one screen and two or more user processes running at the same time (for example as long as visible on the screen), Wangs story is spot on. This will be a big year for Apple.
post #68 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post
 

 

No one in this forum, or any other forum, gave a convincing reason to what would make an iPad so "Pro". We've all used one, what feature do you want to see that would make it a Pro? is it a keyboard? What applications do you expect to use on a Pro iPad? Photoshop? Should it have an external drive?

 

I would use the same apps that I currently use and have. I just want to use them on a bigger and more powerful iPad, that's all. I'm not looking for any features in particular that are currently missing. 

 

And no, no keyboard, no mouse, none of that crap. Apple shouldn't mess with the iPad's form factor and usage paradigm.

post #69 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

...and make it more expensive, as that would keep some of the riff raff away.

 

That you operate under the assumption that a tablet can be priced to exclude all but a few customers gives the impression that you yourself see tablets as something to aspire to own, which implies that such pricing would probably exclude you.

post #70 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

I would use the same apps that I currently use and have. I just want to use them on a bigger and more powerful iPad, that's all. I'm not looking for any features in particular that are currently missing. 

 

And no, no keyboard, no mouse, none of that crap. Apple shouldn't mess with the iPad's form factor and usage paradigm.

 

 

Which apps do you use that would benefit from a pro iPad, and how often do you use them? I'm not trying to be nosy, I'm just trying to wrap my head around a Pro iPad.

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post #71 of 217

"Analyst predicts"... stop arguing!! ;)

post #72 of 217
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Its pretty much a netbook IMO.

 

Your opinion is objectively false. You’re just completely and utterly wrong about what you’re saying.

 

Originally Posted by Landcruiser View Post
Why wouldn't you want the "option" of a touch optimized OS X.
 

Because then it isn’t OS X. Because we already have a touch operating system. Because the idea and operation of having a touchscreen laptop are both idiotic.

 
It doesn't mean you have to use it.

 

So you know nothing about how Apple makes products, then.

 
As for touch optimized, many of the apps are already there…

 

EXACTLY. That’s because Apple is going to make a REAL desktop multitouch operating system.

 
…Microsoft is touch optimizing…

 

Who cares what failures are doing?

 

Originally Posted by vlscout View Post
Just adding bluetooth mouse support to ios…
 

So we have people who don’t comprehend what OS X is and people who don’t comprehend what iOS is.

 

Sounds like they just need to get together and give each other their computers.

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post #73 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

That you operate under the assumption that a tablet can be priced to exclude all but a few customers gives the impression that you yourself see tablets as something to aspire to own, which implies that such pricing would probably exclude you.

 

A premium priced iPad Pro is obviously not going to be a huge seller, compared to something like the cheaply priced iPad Mini. Even if the iPad Pro makes up 10% of total iPad sales, then that would be good.

 

It will simply be one more option for people looking to buy iPads. Some like small, some like medium, and some like large. And some like all. I already have the 7.9" and 9.7" so bring it on, I'd like something larger now.

 

And yes, I do believe that certain products can be priced out of certain people's ranges. An iPad Pro is something that would probably be out of the range of 95% of Android users. Those cheap bastards whine about twenty dollars. Can you imagine a $1000 iPad? :lol:

post #74 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

 

Intel's x86-64 14nm Broadwell Y-series chip will be considerably more capable than an A8 using ARMv8 design.  

 

Intel's Cherry Trail Q3 / Willow Trail Q4 (tick-tock) will be the competitor to the A8, and they will be coming in devices in the $250~$500 range.

Maybe, but neither chip will be designed from the ground-up to run iOS

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post #75 of 217
Apple will never make an OS X/iOS hybrid. The thought of that makes me vomit. There are two distinct ways if using each. Why confuse the consumer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

Because I like touch screens and I like OSX.

I like dogs and I like women. I don't want a female dog.

Some things just don't mix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Its pretty much a netbook IMO. Apple just renamed the category. There isn't much you can do on a MacBook that you can't do on an iPad. 

You obviously never used an MBA. Net books are cheap POS with crippled hardware.
post #76 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post
 

 

 

Which apps do you use that would benefit from a pro iPad, and how often do you use them? I'm not trying to be nosy, I'm just trying to wrap my head around a Pro iPad.

 

I can name a few apps, but I'm really just talking about everything.

 

From browsing, to watching a movie, to playing a game, or using productivity apps, some people would welcome a larger screen.

 

As for specific apps, I can mention certain audio and music apps that I use that require a lot of power. Auria is a DAW app that uses plugins, and some of those plugins can be very CPU intensive, such as convolution reverbs. In those sort of apps, the more plug ins you add, the greater the CPU power is required.

 

Also, certain apps can look  a bit cluttered on the screen, and having a larger screen would be helpful.

post #77 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

How has it been failing?  Bay Trail tablets and 2-in-1s have been well received and will only get more attention at CES.  

Late 2014, Broadwell Y-series (Core i3, i5, i7) will be inside tablets and 2-in-1s in the 12 inch form factor. 

Microsoft's hardware woes are over.

I an very impressed with Intel's ability to make CPUs with fantastically improved power usage numbers. However, I think there is an inherent power advantage to the ARM design. Plus, the very reason Intel is not interested in the ARM business is that they can not make their normally fat margins in that arena. If Intel holds to that, and I think they may, then the intel-based devices will always struggle to compete with ARM on price and margin.

In the past the huge base of PCs and the desire to be Win compatible has carried the day for Win/Intel but the horses have been out of the barn for too long, BYOD is alive and well in enterprise and education has never been tamed to the idea of Windows. It will be interesting to see how the near future may play out. Will Microsoft be able to heard the horses back under their control, or have they scattered to the greener fields? With consumers nearly totally rejecting Microsoft's grip, combined with BYOD, and the much more mobile workforce, things are still very dicey for Microsoft... then throw the CEO change-over on top of the mess, and Microsoft may be delayed from being more adroit and responsive to the challenges the near term will present... especially if Apple introduces another disruption, as it appears to be poised to do.

Microsoft is living in interesting times. 1wink.gif
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #78 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

There's a reason the current iPad was renamed iPad Air, and the current MacBook Airs don't have retina displays. Apple has something cooking. But if Apple comes out with a hybrid device after Tim Cook has been shitting on them for the past two years then I think we'll know its time for Tim to go.

Steve crapped on video for the iPod touch then did video and it took off. No one said Steve had to go.

Steve crapped on eBooks then did iBooks for iPad and it took off so well, Amazon paid the US government to sue Apple. No one said Steve had to go.

Why would have to go?
post #79 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

Both are designed to run a complete desktop experience with performance being the only limiting factor.

 

I don't want a desktop experience on my tablet.

 

That sounds highly unattractive and backwards.

 

I want an iPad experience.

 

If I want a desktop experience, I'll turn on my desktop.

post #80 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by vlscout View Post

I think I know what they are up to - or at least what they should do.

Just adding bluetooth mouse support to ios will make the ipad a perfect thin client to connect to a Mac or PC via RDP. Then you have both an ipad and a traditional computer in one device.

Imagine Apple selling a subscription to a Mac virtual machine via their cloud services with the new ipad pro (ios with mouse support).

It's a nice idea but doesn't solve the discrepancy between the interfaces.
It also introduces extra lag that makes life difficult, even on a local network (as I know from experience), iCloud would make things worse.
The point is that a 64bit A7 processor is powerfull enough to run almost all desktop applications even video editing and render software.
Using it as 'thin client' is a waste of resources and a very bad idea (as it always has been) and can be compared to using a notebook as a thin client.
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