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Analyst predicts Apple will transform notebook market with 12-inch hybrid 'iPad Pro' this fall - Page 3

post #81 of 217
Analysts....right....
post #82 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post


Which apps do you use that would benefit from a pro iPad, and how often do you use them? I'm not trying to be nosy, I'm just trying to wrap my head around a Pro iPad.

Spreadsheets are the kind of app that benefits from a larger screen for creation and studying. Just moving a lot of pixels around on the screen needs a more powerful CPU. Using the iPad as a presentation tool is improved with a larger screen.

Such a device as the proposed iPad Pro would have been a failure before the weight, CPU capacity, and battery development had been brought up to today's levels. It is now possible, where it was once not thinkable. How far portable devices have came in 20 years is astounding to me. So much power for so little cost! I could never have imagined!
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #83 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

So a slower, less-featured MacBook Air?

 

 

Do they? They made an iPad too small to be used. A larger one would just be making up for that at this point.

 

The Mini is just fine. What's wrong with it?

post #84 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobJohnson View Post
 

 

Steve Jobs on eBooks: 

 

“It doesn’t matter how good or bad the product is, the fact is that people don’t read anymore. Forty percent of the people in the U.S. read one book or less last year. The whole concept is flawed at the top because people don’t read anymore.”

 

Steve Jobs on video iPods: 

 

"You can't watch a video and drive a car. We're focused on music." 

 

Steve Jobs on an Apple mobile phone: 

 

"I get a lot of pressure to do a PDA. What people really seem to want to do with these is get the data out. We believe cell phones are going to carry this information. We didn't think we'd do well in the cell phone business."

 

Steve Jobs on an Apple tablet: 

 

"Tablets appeal to rich guys with plenty of other PCs and devices already."

And yet everything he said was true. At least it's clear that he and Apple believed it. I know your point is to stop taking one marketer's word as gospel so start taking your own advice. Does it really matter what Tim Cook said a year or two ago. Apple has and will continue to change their stance on an evolving marketplace. The only ones that continue to listen to predictions and proclamations are financial analysts in order to make a buck. it's their job to parrot predictions, not to be creative.

post #85 of 217

Yes, Apple will NEVER do a hybrid. Dual-boot is not something people should be forced to do.
I believe they will largely expand iOS capabilities this year, with possible multi-window support.
The Verge has a video showing how the successor to WebOS, Eel, would have looked and how it would have managed multitasking. 

 

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/2/5264580/the-lost-secrets-of-webos

 

It used 'flat' design before Apple or Google used it. And the implementation of multitasking is just incredible and super intuitive. It's just amazing how natural and easy to use it looks. I hope Apple will go into that direction, but now that I've seen that, I'm not sure how could something else be better.

post #86 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

I hope this comes out with a touch optimized version of OSX but that's a long shot. I'd buy it on day one if that happened!

Why? It would be a worthless clunky piece of garbage like every other Desktop OS shoehorned into a touch device.

 

OS X is made for Keyboard and Mouse.

 

iOS is made for touch.

 

What is it that stupid people don't understand about this ultra-basic and simple concept?

post #87 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

I don't want a desktop experience on my tablet.

 

That sounds highly unattractive and backwards.

 

I want an iPad experience.

 

If I want a desktop experience, I'll turn on my desktop.

You might not have the option a year from now at the rate that desktops sales fall. Apple would just be stepping in to fill the obvious gap left there after the original introduction of the iPad. Remember, Apple doesn't get involved with low numbers unless they have to (Mac Pro for example). When desktop and laptop sales reach the single digits in millions per year, Apple will not try to save that division. They will instead eat it up before anyone else can like they always have done.

post #88 of 217
I'm sure glad I read the entire thread before posting, because the first page of posts was down right "blind"!

IMO and I speculated here at AI last year before the unveiling of iOS7, it's iOS that is going to be further developed to slowly but surely incorporate certain features and functions that people have been clamoring for... mainly the "pros" among us... and be the OS for the Apple and computing masses.

Such as opening up a portion of the system to be used as cross-app repositories for data and allowing user-defined apps to access the data AKA Folders, Files and "Open with".... as well as integrating the cloud.

And why not a BT mouse possibility? I wouldn't want or need one... but more gestures or programable keyboard shortcuts, launchers, whatever can't be bad.

I'm absolutely apposed to user accounts, especially on a device with "pro" in it's name. It belongs to one and only one person to make it work, or potentially screw up all on his/her very own.

The very fact is that iOS has a massive user-base with a wide variety of usage scenarios already. Adding to those scenarios is where the money and the future is at. The "trucks" AKA rMBPs, iMacs, MacPro will still be there for those that need them, but I would speculate that roughly 30% of current MBA/MBP owners and users could easily be content with a 64-bit, 128gb iOS iPad Pro... actually be very happy with it, if iOS adds a few necessary functions.

The biggest hint that this will come to be, is the announcement of 64-bit ARM. Apple is going to leverage that on iOS 8 and new devices that is going to blow most of our minds... and the competition squarely out of the water, re: Microsoft is toast! The above speculated iPad Pro-iOS8 duo will literally blow the kickstand off of those Intel/WinNT-kernel posers!

WWDC 2014 Quote of The Year Prediction: Hybrid my ass! 1smoking.gif
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post #89 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

How has it been failing?  Bay Trail tablets and 2-in-1s have been well received and will only get more attention at CES.  

Late 2014, Broadwell Y-series (Core i3, i5, i7) will be inside tablets and 2-in-1s in the 12 inch form factor. 

Microsoft's hardware woes are over.

LOL. That's been the meme for a while. "With the upcoming Intel (insert codename here), everything is finally fixed, and Microsoft can go back to beating Apple again."

Always "the next thing, just you wait"

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #90 of 217

When introducing the A7, they made a big point of calling it "desktop class." So they must have plans of using future A series arm chips on iOS desktop/laptop type devices. 

post #91 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


And no, no keyboard, no mouse, none of that crap. Apple shouldn't mess with the iPad's form factor and usage paradigm.

If people did not want a keyboard to use with their iPads their would not be such a huge range of BT keyboards for the iPad. I personally look forward to the day when I can connect my iPad or iPhone to a dock that connects to a monitor, keyboard, trackpad, hard drive and printer when I am at home or work. This can then be detached and taken with you as a tablet. The iPad is close to being able to do this now, Android tablets are even closer t being able to do this. If Apple make an iPad with the innards of the MacBook Air this will be even closer.
Edited by Crosslad - 1/3/14 at 11:37am
post #92 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I like dogs and I like women. I don't want a female dog.

Some things just don't mix.

 

OSX isn't ready for touch input yet, but it's evident to me that it's heading that way.  The Launchpad is definitely not designed with a mouse in mind.  The icons are sized and spaced for finger input.  Some trackpad gestures have been implemented on the iPad (or were iPad gestures implemented on the trackpad... can't remember which came first), which implies easy conversion to using those gestures on a touchscreen in OSX.  Mavericks made some trackpad gestures follow fingers one-to-one like they would on a touchscreen (the show desktop and Launchpad gestures), and some gestures were already optimized for one-to-one tracking (swiping between desktops or fullscreen apps and opening the notification center).  That sort of optimization is unnecessary when the fingers aren't "touching" the image on-screen.  A simple swipe to activate a complete animation sequence is just as effective as far as those interactions are concerned.  All in all, OSX is being touch optimized one step at a time whether people like it or not.

post #93 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post


If people did not want a keyboard to use with their iPads their would no be such a huge range of BT keyboards for the iPad. I personally look forward to the day when I can connect my iPad or iPhone to a dock that connects to a monitor, keyboard, trackpad, hard drive and printer when I am at home or work. This can then be detached and taken with you as a tablet. The iPad is close to being able to do this now, Android tablets are even closer t being able to do this. If Apple make an iPad with the innards of the MacBook Air this will be even closer.

 

I have Apple BT keyboards that I have occasionally paired with my iPads, when I need to write something long, however, it should remain an option, and I see no reason for Apple to go beyond that.

 

I don't want any stupid kickstands on my iPads, I don't want a keyboard that snaps into place, I don't want a mouse and I don't want it to look or work like a laptop.

 

I also use a fork, spoon and knife when I eat dinner. I'd imagine that if I were invited for dinner by a Surface owner, I'd be given a damn spork to eat with.

post #94 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post

If Apple make an iPad with the innards of the MacBook Air this will be even closer.

 

Remember one thing. Those Intel chips that people mention use damn fans.

 

There will never be a single fan in any iPad that I ever buy. That is a massive fail.

post #95 of 217
"Because I like touch screens and I like OSX."

I like fish and also strawberry but do I mix them ? NO !
post #96 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

Bay Trail and Haswell Y series do not use a fan.

 

Cherry Trail/Willow Trail and Broadwell Y series will not use a fan.

 

Ok, I'm not up to date on all of the newer Intel chips and the ones that have yet to be released.

 

He did mention the Macbook Air though, and that uses a fan last I saw.

post #97 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post

You just described a modern Windows 8.1 tablet (example ASUS T100).

In terms of phones, Ubuntu Linux is the closest to the complete convergence device.

Maybe that is what I want, but would prefer one that used iOS or OSX and with Apple's build quality.
post #98 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmz View Post
 

Why? It would be a worthless clunky piece of garbage like every other Desktop OS shoehorned into a touch device.

 

OS X is made for Keyboard and Mouse.

 

iOS is made for touch.

 

What is it that stupid people don't understand about this ultra-basic and simple concept?

 

See my post above.  It explains the transition in terms even you might understand.

post #99 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


There's a reason the current iPad was renamed iPad Air, and the current MacBook Airs don't have retina displays. Apple has something cooking. But if Apple comes out with a hybrid device after Tim Cook has been shitting on them for the past two years then I think we'll know its time for Tim to go.

 

And this alleged hybrid device would be panned as a johnny-come-lately Surface clone... and that would accurate too.

post #100 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

See my post above.  It explains the transition in terms even you might understand.

 

There will be no transition.

 

The way that some people on this forum are advocating for Apple to emulate and copy a failed concept (like the MS Surface) is laughable.

 

What a great strategy. Gee, what should Apple do next with it's super successful iPad line? Golly gee, let's borrow features from the least successful device on the market! That ought to be real swell! 

 

If Apple does release a "convertible", it will be good news for people looking to short AAPL.

post #101 of 217
Let's take a step back and look at this from the perspective of a long-term strategy.

When Apple switched the Mac to Intel it was perceived as a means to remain competitive with WinTel in the megahertz wars and IBM wasn't evolving the PPC fast enough.

That was all true, but I believe there was another overarching goal: to subsume the WiinTel business. They embarked upon that by offering BootCamp, free, on Intel Macs -- so any Intel Mac could run Windows.

Then, the release of the iPad largely killed the NetBooks and is replacing lower-end consumer WinTel offerings.

Now, some 7 1/2 years later it can be said that [in the areas Apple chooses to compete] the "best Windows
[WinTel] machines are Macs!



So, today, you could say that Apple is well along in reaching their goal of subsuming the WiinTel business.


What's next?


Consider Apple devices that:
  • exploit Apple's superior OSX for the Desktops and Laptops
  • exploit Apple's superior iOS for Tablets and Phones
  • provide the capability to run legacy WinTel apps if/when needed


Hypothetical:

What if Apple could build devices where most of the work CPU/GPU is done on A8/9 chips and a low-cost Intel chip is used to run any WinTel apps needed. The A8/9 chips would provide GPU capabilities for the Intel Chip.

Or

Apple could contract Intel to allow Apple to implement the Intel CISC to RISC translation on Apple A8/9 hardware/software -- obviating the low-cost Intel chip.

Or

Make Intel an offer they can't refuse: Act as a foundry for Apple A8/9 chips, incorporating whatever "WinTel" capability is needed, right on the A8/9 SOC.
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post #102 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

See, that’s never happening, so it’s not what we’re talking about.

 

Buy an iPad. Problem solved.

 

So you’re not fine with paying $999 but you’re fine with Apple removing that option and pushing an even more expensive one.

 

I could see Apple releasing an iOS with a keyboard, which would bascially make it a laptop. The problem with simply buying an iPad is that some users really do need a keyboard, and oftentimes third party detached keyboards are not a great option. The education market would eat up these devices if it also came with at least some kind of file management (maybe even file server access) and the ability to easily print.

 

I would expect a device like I am describing to be much less than a MacBook Air ($600-$700 range) and the current 13" rMBP come down in price to right around $1,000. I am sure Apple would still offer the MacBook Air until this happens.

post #103 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

 

There will be no transition.

 

The way that some people on this forum are advocating for Apple to emulate and copy a failed concept (like the MS Surface) is laughable.

 

What a great strategy. Gee, what should Apple do next with it's super successful iPad line? Golly gee, let's borrow features from the least successful device on the market! That ought to be real swell! 

 

If Apple does release a "convertible", it will be good news for people looking to short AAPL.

 

I guess I have more faith in Apple than you do.  Apple tends to make complex things become intuitive and obvious.

 

Beyond that there's a huge difference between what I'm telling you is happening and what Windows did.  Windows put the same operating system on all devices.  It's a mess.  I can't say for sure that Apple will never do that, but that's not what they are doing right now as they optimize OSX for touch input.  They aren't merging iOS and OSX, at least not that I can tell.

post #104 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post
 

I see this replacing the MacBook Air lineup. And good riddance...what a worthless netbook. 

The MacBook Air is not a netbook.

post #105 of 217
Do you think that Apple has OSX Mavericks, including pro apps like Final Cut Pro 10.1 running on ARM chips?

Do you think Apple has iOS7, including most iOS7 apps, running on Intel chips?

Do you think OSX Mavericks and iOS7 share a 50%-75% common code base?

Any opportunities here?
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post #106 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by sseaton1971 View Post
 

 

I could see Apple releasing an iOS with a keyboard, which would bascially make it a laptop. The problem with simply buying an iPad is that some users really do need a keyboard, and oftentimes third party detached keyboards are not a great option. The education market would eat up these devices if it also came with at least some kind of file management (maybe even file server access) and the ability to easily print.

 

I would expect a device like I am describing to be much less than a MacBook Air ($600-$700 range) and the current 13" rMBP come down in price to right around $1,000. I am sure Apple would still offer the MacBook Air until this happens.

The MBA is Dead Man Walking.  We're only a couple of years away from the iPad being as capable as a MBA.  In about 2 to 4 years I see Apple's mobile device line-up being iPhones / iPads / rMBP.

post #107 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post
 

 

I guess I have more faith in Apple than you do.  Apple tends to make complex things become intuitive and obvious.

 

Beyond that there's a huge difference between what I'm telling you is happening and what Windows did.  Windows put the same operating system on all devices.  It's a mess.  I can't say for sure that Apple will never do that, but that's not what they are doing right now as they optimize OSX for touch input.  They aren't merging iOS and OSX, at least not that I can tell.

We already have an OSX optimized for touch - it's called iOS.

post #108 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


Spreadsheets are the kind of app that benefits from a larger screen for creation and studying. Just moving a lot of pixels around on the screen needs a more powerful CPU. Using the iPad as a presentation tool is improved with a larger screen.

Don't you feel that spreadsheets are best used on a laptop with a keyboard and mouse instead of the relatively awkward touch interface. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by st88 View Post
 

Both are designed to run a complete desktop experience with performance being the only limiting factor.

Performance is a key factor for a desktop experience.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post
 

I also use a fork, spoon and knife when I eat dinner. I'd imagine that if I were invited for dinner by a Surface owner, I'd be given a damn spork to eat with.

I like your spork analogy, it's bad at being spoon and bad at being a fork.

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post #109 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Do you think that Apple has OSX Mavericks, including pro apps like Final Cut Pro 10.1 running on ARM chips?

Do you think Apple has iOS7, including most iOS7 apps, running on Intel chips?

Do you think OSX Mavericks and iOS7 share a 50%-75% common code base?

Any opportunities here?

I don't know what percentage it is, but iOS 7 & OSX Mavericks do share a lot of the same code base.  The only difference is, is that OSX is optimized for keyboard / mouse use and iOS is optimized for multitouch.

 

Apple is laser focused on using their own custom processors so I wouldn't be surprised of they had a version of OSX running on ARM-based processors but not iOS running on Intel processors.

post #110 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I have Apple BT keyboards that I have occasionally paired with my iPads, when I need to write something long, however, it should remain an option, and I see no reason for Apple to go beyond that.

I don't want any stupid kickstands on my iPads, I don't want a keyboard that snaps into place, I don't want a mouse and I don't want it to look or work like a laptop.

I also use a fork, spoon and knife when I eat dinner. I'd imagine that if I were invited for dinner by a Surface owner, I'd be given a damn spork to eat with.

Me neither. My ideal set up would be a dock like the iPod universal dock that we used to have, that would allow me to dock my iPad mini to a monitor, keyboard an printer. I can almost do this now with an Apple VGA or hdmi adapter, BT keyboard and wireless printer. What is missing at the moment is mouse support in iOS so that I can draw tables and objects in Pages etc without the need to keep reaching for the iPad. This to me is the ideal home set up. It is possible to do this now on android using slimport or mhl adapters but the apps available are nowhere close to being as good as the iWork and iLife apps on iOS.
post #111 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post
 

We already have an OSX optimized for touch - it's called iOS.

 

If iOS truly was OSX optimized for touch I'd be using an iPhone right now.  Unfortunately it's not, even though they share some low-level aspects.

post #112 of 217

If "iPad Air" then "Macbook Mini"?

post #113 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

And this alleged hybrid device would be panned as a johnny-come-lately Surface clone... and that would accurate too.
That's why I don't think we'll see it, certainly not the way Microsoft implemented it. I oouod see making iOS more powerful before Apple would ever make OSX touch based.
post #114 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

The MBA is Dead Man Walking.  We're only a couple of years away from the iPad being as capable as a MBA.  In about 2 to 4 years I see Apple's mobile device line-up being iPhones / iPads / rMBP.

Not going to happen anytime soon, if not ever.

iPad will not run OS X on an AX series chip. iOS will not run on Intel. Some people like the portability of the MBA while doing more than what iOS has to offer.
post #115 of 217
The solution I am waiting for Apple to allow Parallels to run IOS just like it can run Windows. I have a 13" Mac Pro laptop, and Dell touchscreen DUO laptop with dual boot Windows 7 & 8.1. Windows 8.1 is ok on the DUO but the apps don't come close to my IPAD 2 apps. I love the track pad on the Mac Pro and found that when I installed Parallels on the Mac and then installed Windows 8.1 that I didn't need a touch screen as the Mac track pad worked great with the Windows 8 apps. I always use a Bluetooth keyboard with the IPAD anyway so if Parallels could run IOS as a virtual machine then that would be the perfect solution for me. I would run out and buy a 13" Mac Air the day after this happens and dump the IPAD and windows laptop as the Air would do everything then.
post #116 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Not going to happen anytime soon, if not ever.

iPad will not run OS X on an AX series chip. iOS will not run on Intel. Some people like the portability of the MBA while doing more than what iOS has to offer.

I never said iPad will run OSX, nor did I say iOS will run on Intel processors, read again.  And my previous comment assumes that iOS will gain more capability over time and iPad hardware will also get more powerful over time.  Once that happens, there's really no need for a MBA.  The iPad Air will subsume the MBA.  We'll just have to agree to disagree and let time decide who's right.

post #117 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Do you think that Apple has OSX Mavericks, including pro apps like Final Cut Pro 10.1 running on ARM chips?


Do you think Apple has iOS7, including most iOS7 apps, running on Intel chips?


Do you think OSX Mavericks and iOS7 share a 50%-75% common code base?


Any opportunities here?
I don't know what percentage it is, but iOS 7 & OSX Mavericks do share a lot of the same code base.  The only difference is, is that OSX is optimized for keyboard / mouse use and iOS is optimized for multitouch.

Apple is laser focused on using their own custom processors so I wouldn't be surprised of they had a version of OSX running on ARM-based processors but not iOS running on Intel processors.

"The only major difference is, is that OSX is optimized for keyboard / mouse use and iOS is optimized for multitouch."

The UI differences are mainly contained in two frameworks:

OSX uses AppKit
iOS   uses UIKit

Other differences exist in other frameworks -- some missing from iOS or OSX.

But there are still other differences, sometimes subtle...

On OSX you can drag and drop, say from iPhoto to eMail. It'd be nice to have that capability in IOS -- but you have a single window containing one app.


A couple of iOS releases back, it was reported that Apple ProRes APIs were included in iOS -- then removed.

Why would Apple include ProRes in iOS, then remove it? No iOS apps use ProRes -- that's for high-end video editing!
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post #118 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post

I never said iPad will run OSX, nor did I say iOS will run on Intel processors, read again.  And my previous comment assumes that iOS will gain more capability over time and iPad hardware will also get more powerful over time.  Once that happens, there's really no need for a MBA.  The iPad Air will subsume the MBA.  We'll just have to agree to disagree and let time decide who's right.

No, it's the internet. We need to argue, call each other names! /s

I get what your saying but I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think the iPad will ever be able to run "power" programs. The people who buy the MBA are not the same as those buying an iPad.
post #119 of 217
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Renamed iPad Air to conceptually link the lighter form factor to an already popular product. It was a smart marketing move.

Only if it sells as well as its predecessor.
 
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post #120 of 217
I don't see Apple ever copying a Surface even it it did copy the Droid mini size.
 
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