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With Apple shareholder proposal pending, Carl Icahn turns his attention to Hertz

post #1 of 118
Thread Starter 
Activist investor Carl Icahn, who has a history of using his money and power to influence publicly traded companies and most recently made Apple one of his targets, is now setting his sights on Hertz, buying as many as 40 million shares in the rental car company.

Icahn


Icahn's newfound stake in Hertz was revealed by an anonymous source to CNBC on Friday. The moves made by the investor prompted executives at Hertz to adopt a so-called "poison pill" earlier this week in an attempt to prevent Icahn from gaining control of the board of directors.

Prior to Friday, the identity of the activist investor was unknown. Hertz simply attributed its precautionary measures as being in response to "unusual and substantial activity" in its shares.

Icahn's stake in Hertz is said to be partially in derivatives, in addition to common stock. If his entire stake were in common stock, sources reportedly said it would make him the company's single largest shareholder.

The apparent interest of Icahn in Hertz comes as the billionaire remains involved in a public fight with the Apple Board of Directors over that company's cash and reserves. He has openly called for Apple to spend the entirety of some $150 billion it has in cash on a share repurchase program.

Icahn


However, Icahn formally filed a shareholder proposal in November, in which he instead detailed a $50 billion stock repurchase plan. Apple, unsurprisingly, has recommended that investors vote against the proposal, saying that its board is already "thoughtfully considering options for returning additional cash to shareholders."

During fiscal 2013, Apple spent $23 billion of an expanded $60-billion share repurchase authorization, which contributed to combined dividend payments and repurchases totaling over $43 billion since the program was initiated some six quarters ago.

Icahn revealed in October that he had at the time 4.7 million shares of AAPL stock, up from a previous total of 4 million. His interest in the company, and stature as a Wall Street icon, have even garnered him private meetings with Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook and Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer.
post #2 of 118
"anonymous source to CNBC on Friday."
CNBC - Icahn's private PR network
post #3 of 118
Leave Apple alone, go interfere with Hertz.
post #4 of 118

anyone know why is AAPL today -2% ? 

post #5 of 118

I think we may have uncovered the big, nasty flaw in Capitalism.

post #6 of 118

First order of business with Icahn on board, change the name from Hertz to Hurtz

Help! I'm trapped in a white dungeon of amazing precision and impeccable tolerances!

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Help! I'm trapped in a white dungeon of amazing precision and impeccable tolerances!

Reply
post #7 of 118

Hey. Rest of Wall Street. How does it feel to have Icahn breathing down your necks now?

 

?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #8 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post
 

I think we may have uncovered the big, nasty flaw in Capitalism.

 

I am not sure that capitalism requires companies to be publicly traded. In fact I would think that the entire stock market system is something of a leach on the system and just like labor unions they once served a valuable purpose but have long since outgrown their initial function to take on a life of their own which retains only a glimmer of the original purpose. 

 

In case that is not clear - in the case of unions, they came about at a time when working conditions and worker compensation was horrendous and things like considering it acceptable for some number of workers to die for each floor of a building or span of bridge built where common place. Unions provided a mechanism or means for the workers to have leverage against management, but how far has that leverage been moved since and past a point of balance they become the oppressors.  In the case of publicly traded stock, there was a time when you did not need an IPO to start or build or expand a company. Publicly traded stock gives a company a way to fund things that might not be possible through more traditional means, whether from profits or borrowed money or private investors. But at what point does the tail wag the dog? 

post #9 of 118
This is one reason that I wish Apple could go private and just focus on doing their stuff, rather than dealing with this crap. No one shareholder should determine what the company should do.

I know it's not that simple and it's difficult to do what Icahn wants as the whole board of directors have to approve it but it's easier to convince such a board when money is involved rather than the best interests of the company and its employees.

Apple is definitely not going to sustain itself the way the market wants it to, that's for sure. Technologies don't just progress on a consistent pattern that Apple can take advantage of.
post #10 of 118

Will this guy just go away already. Nothing of Apple holds any interest to him other than share price.

post #11 of 118

Carl,

 

Don't take your focus off Apple!  We shareholders need you!  Clearly the board and Tim Cook don't care how the call option sellers manipulate the stock to ridiculously low valuations.  We need a strong WALL STREET bull to bully these market manipulators out of the stock.  These west cost techie nerds have no idea how to play the game which is why they toss Apple stock around like a drunkin' hooker.  I will be voting YES on your proxy and so should everyone else that wants to make money being long Apple stock.

post #12 of 118

LOL, clearly you have little understand of the public equity markets.  Our economy would be a small fraction of what it is today without the capital to grow that public markets have provided public companies.

post #13 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post
 

Carl,

 

Don't take your focus off Apple!  We shareholders need you!  Clearly the board and Tim Cook don't care how the call option sellers manipulate the stock to ridiculously low valuations.  We need a strong WALL STREET bull to bully these market manipulators out of the stock.  These west cost techie nerds have no idea how to play the game which is why they toss Apple stock around like a drunkin' hooker.  I will be voting YES on your proxy and so should everyone else that wants to make money being long Apple stock.


And people who actually care about the company and it's long-term future should ignore people like you and Ichan and vote no on his proposal.

post #14 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post
 

 

I am not sure that capitalism requires companies to be publicly traded. In fact I would think that the entire stock market system is something of a leach on the system and just like labor unions they once served a valuable purpose but have long since outgrown their initial function to take on a life of their own which retains only a glimmer of the original purpose. 

...

 

You're joking about the need for unions being a thing of the past, right?

Care to tell that to the millions of workers struggling with multiple jobs at serf-level wages? Want to tell them that they have, as individuals, a realistic chance of negotiating for wages with multi-national corporations?

Without unions, every gain you (without acknowledging) enjoy would disappear in a moment.

Vacations, child labor (you don't think so?), workplace safety? Gone.

 

The destruction of unions has heralded the death of the middle class. Too bad self aggrandizing silicon valley types don't have any sense of history, or gratitude.
 

post #15 of 118
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post

We shareholders need you!

 

Sell your stock now and go back to being a day trader.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #16 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post
 

 Publicly traded stock gives a company a way to fund things that might not be possible through more traditional means, whether from profits or borrowed money or private investors. But at what point does the tail wag the dog? 

Primary advantage: private equity has ridiculously low liquidity compared to public trading. You can literally get into and out of a position in a public company in milliseconds. This is not possible with private equity which means a inherently higher risk. It also effectively locks out small investors, where small, for a company of Apple's size, means hundreds of millions of dollars.

 

Second advantage: it provides an effective market-based method of both executive and employee compensation. And not only that both stock grants and options can have tax advantages in the US.

post #17 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post


And people who actually care about the company and it's long-term future should ignore people like you and Ichan and vote no on his proposal.

+infinity.
post #18 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post
 

Carl,

 

Don't take your focus off Apple!  We shareholders need you!  Clearly the board and Tim Cook don't care how the call option sellers manipulate the stock to ridiculously low valuations.  We need a strong WALL STREET bull to bully these market manipulators out of the stock.  These west cost techie nerds have no idea how to play the game which is why they toss Apple stock around like a drunkin' hooker.  I will be voting YES on your proxy and so should everyone else that wants to make money being long Apple stock.

 

Sure, you need him until he gets what he wants and sells all his AAPL and walks away with a fat bank account.  Or until his proposal gets voted down and he sells all his AAPL and walks away in search of another corporation with fat coffers that he can raid.  Either way, he is not in it for the long hall, he is not in it out of concern for other stockholders, he is in it only to further enrich himself.  Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses, but all times he walks away.

post #19 of 118

This is not a flaw in the capitalist system (better called by the name "free enterprise").  Rather is is a fault of government which is under the power of the banking industry (better called by the name "banksters").  The government then empowers the banksters to develop all kinds of complicated derivatives (anything except the real thing) and when they do damage to the people (better called by it's correct name "defraud" the people) by making their money making moves so complicated that neither the people nor the government can figure out what is going on.  And in the long run it all really began when the FED was created and then put in charge of the supply of money in the United States (better called "printing" money).  Of course the system is further confused by the idea that we do not use money at all, but currency (better called by its correct name "counterfeit" money).

 

If you want to see what is really going on you might try to google "The Hidden Secrets of Money".  They are far more knowledgable than I and their explanation is, naturally, better.

 

And for anyone who is not familiar with his history, Carl Icahn has left a string of disasters behind him as he uses the rules in his favor to either acquire companies or to manipulate them for his profit.

SkyKing
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SkyKing
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post #20 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
 
Icahn

 

Jeez.

 

The same old photo of iCahn again?

 

May I suggest this alternative for future articles?

 

If you value privacy you can now set DuckDuckGo as your default search engine in iOS and OS X.
Reply
If you value privacy you can now set DuckDuckGo as your default search engine in iOS and OS X.
Reply
post #21 of 118
What a bottom feeding 2 bit greenmailer! Scum sucking pig.
post #22 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post
 

 

Sure, you need him until he gets what he wants and sells all his AAPL and walks away with a fat bank account.  Or until his proposal gets voted down and he sells all his AAPL and walks away in search of another corporation with fat coffers that he can raid.  Either way, he is not in it for the long hall, he is not in it out of concern for other stockholders, he is in it only to further enrich himself.  Sometimes he wins, sometimes he loses, but all times he walks away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Sell your stock now and go back to being a day trader.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post
 


And people who actually care about the company and it's long-term future should ignore people like you and Ichan and vote no on his proposal.

 

Everyone invests in stocks to make money/get rich, right?  I do not think anyone holds stocks because they are married to it!  Many people bought it at 10s in early years and are still holding it. They will keep on holding it forever. Many got in at 300 and sold above 600.  Many are still holding this bag under loss, so as long as you are making big gains irrespective of time period 1 year or 10 years it does not matter. Do not get married to TECHNOLOGY stocks :p

 

Tip- This is a technology stock and it's years are numbered in terms of growth and rising stock price. Do not think in terms of holding this stock forever, otherwise this market will make you remember this story ------> " Who Moved My Cheese" :lol:   

post #23 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

I am not sure that capitalism requires companies to be publicly traded. In fact I would think that the entire stock market system is something of a leach on the system and just like labor unions they once served a valuable purpose but have long since outgrown their initial function to take on a life of their own which retains only a glimmer of the original purpose. 

In case that is not clear - in the case of unions, they came about at a time when working conditions and worker compensation was horrendous and things like considering it acceptable for some number of workers to die for each floor of a building or span of bridge built where common place. Unions provided a mechanism or means for the workers to have leverage against management, but how far has that leverage been moved since and past a point of balance they become the oppressors.  In the case of publicly traded stock, there was a time when you did not need an IPO to start or build or expand a company. Publicly traded stock gives a company a way to fund things that might not be possible through more traditional means, whether from profits or borrowed money or private investors. But at what point does the tail wag the dog? 

You're absolute right. In addition, the unions were also necessary because "In the last election of the 19th century, the Presidential Election Of 1896, the corporate plutocrats of the time period—John D. Rockefeller, Andrew Carnegie, J P Morgan—gave financial support to the Republican Presidential nominee, William McKinley, to defeat Democratic nominee William Jennings Bryan, and threatened their workers with lost jobs and closed down industries if Bryan won."

Reference http://www.theprogressiveprofessor.com/?p=20054
post #24 of 118

When is the vote on the Icahn proposal?

45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #25 of 118

If your understood anything about finance you would understand that people like Carl Icahn and me want to what's best for Apple.  You do know that Apple pays a 2.2% dividend to every shareholder, right?  Do you also know that Apple can borrow money for the same rate or less?  Apple has a small window of opportunity here with market conditions being what they are to do something brilliant for the company and the shareholders.  They could literally take 1/3 of the shares off the market and never have to pay a dividend on those shares again.  The can use the money they are saving on paying the divined to those retired shares to pay the interest on the debt ENTIRELY.  That is called a net neutral carry -- no carry cost for retiring a third of your outstanding shares.  Apple should have done this when Icahn suggested it and the shares would have been much cheaper, but it still works at this level.  Soon interest rates will be higher and so will Apples share price and this great capital structure move will no longer be available to Apple.  If they don't continue to do it (they already did it once in a smaller fashion) they are complete idiots.  Apple is crushing it right now.  They just had a massive quarter and will have a massive 2014.  By the time all the idiot institutional investors figure this out it will be too late because the stock price will be too high.  Apple could pay off 150 billion in debt in 3.5 years with free cash flow without even dipping into their war chest of 150 billion (that is probably already 160-165 billion).  Does Apple need more than 165 billion for acquisitions and R & D?  Come on, get serious.  The only way they would is if they are planning something massive like taking over content delivery into the home.  But, if they don't do something massive and keep making penny anti acquisitions over the next couple of years AND they don't do this capital structure deal then the investment community will write them off as being financially obtuse -- which many already believe they are.


Edited by Jack Baker - 1/5/14 at 8:57am
post #26 of 118

I wouldn't call an activist investor a leech.  The Apple board was asleep at the switch until Einhorn and Icahn set a fire under their greedy, lazy asses.

post #27 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post

I wouldn't call an activist investor a leech.  The Apple board was asleep at the switch until Einhorn and Icahn set a fire under their greedy, lazy asses.

Crazy Carl is doing this to line his own pockets. He doesn't care about Apple, he cares about $$$. How is the Board greedy? By keeping the money for Apple? Once Apple reaches his target price, he's gone.

Apple already has a buy back program.
post #28 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post

If your understood anything about finance you would understand that people like Carl Icahn and me want to what's best for Apple.  

The problem is that you don't understand that people like most of us here love Apple for its products, not its "finance". I hope very much that Ichan's proposition will be defeated.
post #29 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post

Carl,

Don't take your focus off Apple!  We shareholders need you!  Clearly the board and Tim Cook don't care how the call option sellers manipulate the stock to ridiculously low valuations.  We need a strong WALL STREET bull to bully these market manipulators out of the stock.  These west cost techie nerds have no idea how to play the game which is why they toss Apple stock around like a drunkin' hooker.  I will be voting YES on your proxy and so should everyone else that wants to make money being long Apple stock.

I'll be voting against the interests of Carl and his lot.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #30 of 118
Carl Icahn is a fool for wasting his time with Apple. He could pick any tech stock name out of a hat and find a better performing stock. Tim Cook is practically useless as a CEO. A company with all that reserve cash and yet Tim Cook can't figure out how to boost shareholder value by normal means except for some financial sleight-of-hand with buybacks. Where are all these products that Apple is supposed to be selling.

I read all these stories of how Apple is leading in this and that category but every time I look at the share price it's dropping lower and lower just like it did last year. It's been a whole year and yet Tim Cook hasn't learned a darn thing except how to make Apple's share price go lower. It's bad enough he's a wuss, but he's making the whole company look incompetent while the rest of the tech stocks are soaring. Even loss leader H-P is gaining in share value while canning employees left and right. Apple's share performance is downright feeble. I hope Apple has been buying up shares like a maniac while the stock plummets.

Oh, and Happy New Year everyone, except for Apple shareholders whose new year is turning out just like last year.
post #31 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by total View Post

anyone know why is AAPL today -2% ? 

Icahn.
post #32 of 118
100 percent with Icahn. This Wall Street naive apple board let this stock drop to 385 last year and did nothing. Unless you want to tak that ride again and appl has dropped 30 points last week, I am going with Icahn all the way
post #33 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore View Post

100 percent with Icahn. This Wall Street naive apple board let this stock drop to 385 last year and did nothing. Unless you want to tak that ride again and appl has dropped 30 points last week, I am going with Icahn all the way

 

Icahn will be roundly outvoted by longs.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #34 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post
 

 

Icahn will be roundly outvoted by longs.

 

 

Remember this----> If stock performance is poor from now till the Vote----> It's Game over for the Apple board!

post #35 of 118
Originally Posted by castcore View Post
This Wall Street naive apple board let this stock drop to 385 last year and did nothing.

 

So sell and leave us alone. You don’t comprehend the stock; don’t invest in it.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #36 of 118

Apple was dead in the water until when last year until  Icahn got involved. If you thought that was a coincidence, I got a orange bridge for sale.

post #37 of 118

And most shorts I know are so happy that Apple told shareholder to vote against Icahn. And were scared to death when Cook was meeting with Icahn. Think about that for a second...

post #38 of 118
Originally Posted by castcore View Post
Apple was dead in the water until when last year until Icahn got involved.

I got a orange bridge for sale.

 

The Brooklyn Bridge is orange now?

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #39 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore View Post
 

And most shorts I know are so happy that Apple told shareholder to vote against Icahn. And were scared to death when Cook was meeting with Icahn. Think about that for a second...

 

I am Apple Bull and I want that useless board to be shaken with few getting toasted out but regarding the "most shorts" which you are talking is pure a BS. Look at the short interest in this name.

 

Problem here in Apple is not the shorts (This name needs tons of short sellers lol) but the Pigs AKA Bulltards/Gamblers (Do Not mix them with Bulls) who are buying calls every week as if there is no tomorrow (AKA no brainer trade).

Market Makers rules and they do not want every Tom Dlck and Harry to make the money and they lose being a call writers.

 

One more big issue is Float of Shares which needs to come down significantly by buybacks!

 

Only way Apple can screw these manipulating Media/analyst/naysayers is to give a big blowout earnings like Facebook (FB) did in July 2013 (Intermediate term).

post #40 of 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore View Post

Apple was dead in the water until when last year until  Icahn got involved. If you thought that was a coincidence, I got a orange bridge for sale.

You're saying their quarterly financial earnings improved with Icahn's involvement? I doubt it. You must be talking about their stock price rising, which has nothing to do with the success of Apple's business. The stock price changed with the buyback, which they set out long before Carl got involved:

http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2012/03/19Apple-Announces-Plans-to-Initiate-Dividend-and-Share-Repurchase-Program.html

Maybe Carl has some influence over other traders' confidence but again that's got nothing to do with Apple's business operation.
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