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Critics take issue with lack of diversity on Apple Board of Directors - Page 4

post #121 of 175
Making an effort to diversify is not the opposite of racism, sorry to those who believe that. The opposite of racism is choosing people based purely on their ability to do the job.
post #122 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fake_William_Shatner View Post
 

 

I'd say that MOST boards have no way of concluding "merit." People who are connected and helping other people are making their decisions on; "how much did this board member or will this board member help ME." If it helps the company -- that's icing on the cake.

 

If I had a company, I'd put some prince of England on it -- if I could. I don't care if I was selling aerospace products or diapers -- the "merit" in question is that successful people have successful people who have lots of success.

I agree, you could have the dumbest person on earth on your board of directors but if they somehow have the ability to market or make money for your company, they have merit. You will never see me hire certain people for the sole reason that I can fill out some politically correct checklist to make other people feel good. I will hire people who will make my company money, plain and simple. Doing otherwise is simply hiring for charity.

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post #123 of 175
Making other people feel good can be a good angle to making money.

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post #124 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


What is the suggestion to fix the problem? Making an assertion that a lack of diversity implies a problem of discrimination isn't a solution to it. All that does is make unsubstantiated accusatory statements.

Women, varied sexualities and ethnic minorities have been at an unfair disadvantage for a long time and some people think providing an unfair advantage will undo the damage more quickly but it's not the right way to go about it because it's just doing some of the same thing with the roles reversed.

Given sufficient equality, there might be an assumption that this will inevitably lead to a more even distribution of groups in all walks of life but there needs to be an acceptance that different groups have different traits and it's not a bad thing that they do. Here's an article from 2010 talking about women in tech jobs:

http://www.businessinsider.com/lets-be-real-about-the-lack-of-women-in-tech-2010-10?op=1

Just 5% of technology companies are founded by women - the number in all business is 30%+. The following page here links to some programs to counter this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-women-founders-matter-2013-3

To me, the following are the wrong way to go about it by making exclusive groups rather than trying to bring minority groups (women being a minority in the technology sector) into collaborative environments:

http://www.blackgirlscode.com
http://learninglabs.org/members/girls-learning-code/
http://www.girlswhocode.com

That last site has stats that say:

"In middle school, 74% of girls express interest in Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM), but when choosing a college major, just 0.3% of high school girls select computer science."

"Women today represent 12% of all computer science graduates. In 1984, they represented 37%."

"While 57% of bachelor’s degrees are earned by women, just 12% of computer science degrees are awarded to women."

It appears that women simply aren't all that interested in technology. I think most of us should be aware of this by now. Is that a problem? I would say no. If Apple's board reflects the lack of interest in technology that women have demonstrated then it's similarly not a problem. People should be free to have whatever interests they want and if it so happens that more women gravitate towards:

http://jobs.aol.com/articles/2009/01/26/10-industries-where-women-rule/

Healthcare, education, child-care etc, so be it.

Just look at Laurene Powell. She could be on Apple's board but she's on a board for education:

http://excelined.org/team/laurene-powell-jobs/

You've put a lot on the table-Most of which I agree with. Well thought out and presented.

 

Not sure I'm the one answer it all.

 

But just a couple of thoughts...

 

What to do to fix the problem? Again, not sure. Electing an African American president and he appointing a female Secretary of State is certainly encouraging! In fact, just having this discussion, is encouraging.  :)

 

I suppose, on one end of the spectrum, discussions like these help a little bit, I guess. (90% of the comments here don't seem to get it) and at the other end of the spectrum, may be it's just time and they just have to die. I don't mean kill them. I mean, a lot of it seems to be generational and they just have to go away.

 

In between those two extremes, I suppose it's more education, a more responsible media, reducing poverty, less religion, etc., etc.

 

Just to digress, a moment. You mentioned "poverty." If we could get rid of poverty, we would not have an education problem, an obesity problem, a smoking problem, a murder/crime problem, a health crisis. 

 

When my daughter was born 30 years ago, I knew that most females couldn't throw a football or run fast. Also, they weren't very good at "spatial perception." I put this down to the fact, they just weren't exposed to it enough.

 

She couldn't throw the football as far as Tom Brady...but I made her look like Tom Brady when she dropped back, bounced on her feet, surveyed the field, looking left and right and then threw a spiral.

 

I got an excited call from her when she was 17. She was in San Diego for a HS volleyball tournament. Her team went to the beach for a little R&R. Some guys were throwing a football and an errant throw landed in front of them. Alex picked up the ball, dropped back like Tom Brady and threw a perfect spiral. The guys were shocked and impressed. Instant respect. My daughter said it was the best thing I had ever taught her. I should say, she looked like Tom Brady, if Tom Brady was 5'11" 110#'s with long blonde hair dressed in a bikini! :)

 

As far as spatial perception. Starting at 4 years old, we would make plastic models of jet fighters (the last one we made was a "pink" B-52 with a 3' wingspan). I wanted her to be able to look at an exploded two dimensional drawing and put it together in 3D.

 

While in Med school, she won the first triathlon she entered, and got a 250 score on her second step exam. And is now an MD. (Got her mother's brains!)

 

As far as women not getting computer science degrees...can you blame them? Who would choose to sit in front of a computer all day? There are not too many things more boring than programming. Maybe, Accounting, or being a Pharmacist.

 

But as far as Science, there are more women in Med school now than men. And most if not all have science degrees. More women than men in college, too.

 

Just wait until they "get the vote!"  /s

 

Best.


Edited by christopher126 - 1/6/14 at 2:02pm
post #125 of 175

So many businesses that are run by ethnic minorities are 100% the race of that minority. Go to your nearest South Korean supermarket in the US and see how many blacks or whites are working there. Whites generally employ all races, the same is often not the case with other races.

 

There can be no doubt that the Apple board are choosing people who have the most to offer and will add to the overall cohesion and success of the board. The Apple board is not going to hire say, either a woman or a Mexican just because some authoritarian outsider calls it commonly over used names like, "racist" and "misogynistic". The demographics and success of Apple's board shows clearly how decisions based on board members views and experience are far more important than meddling politician's. 

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post #126 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post
 

You've put a lot on the table-Most of which I agree with. Well thought out and presented.

 

Not sure I'm the one answer it all.

 

But just a couple of thoughts...

 

What to do to fix the problem? Again, not sure. Electing an African American president and he appointing a female Secretary of State is certainly encouraging! In fact, just having this discussion, is encouraging.  :)

 

I suppose, on one end of the spectrum, discussions like these help a little bit, I guess. (90% of the comments here don't seem to get it) and at the other end of the spectrum, may be it's just time and they just have to die. I don't mean kill them. I mean, a lot of it seems to be generational and they just have to go away.

 

In between those two extremes, I suppose it's more education, a more responsible media, reducing poverty, less religion, etc., etc.

 

Just to digress, a moment. You mentioned "poverty." If we could get rid of poverty, we would not have an education problem, an obesity problem, a smoking problem, a murder/crime problem, a health crisis. 

 

When my daughter was born 30 years ago, I knew that most females couldn't throw a football or run fast. Also, they weren't very good at "spatial perception." I put this down to the fact, they just weren't exposed to it enough.

 

She couldn't throw the football as far as Tom Brady...but I made her look like Tom Brady when she dropped back, bounced on her feet, surveyed the field, looking left and right and then threw a spiral.

 

I got an excited call from her when she was 17. She was in San Diego for a HS volleyball tournament. Her team went to the beach for a little R&R. Some guys were throwing a football and an errant throw landed in front of them. Alex picked up the ball, dropped back like Tom Brady and threw a perfect spiral. The guys were shocked and impressed. Instant respect. My daughter said it was the best thing I had ever taught her. I should say, she looked like Tom Brady, if Tom Brady was 5'11" 110#'s with long blonde hair dressed in a bikini! :)

 

As far as spatial perception. Starting at 4 years old, we would make plastic models of jet fighters (the last one we made was a "pink" B-52 with a 3' wingspan). I wanted her to be able to look at an exploded two dimensional drawing and put it together in 3D.

 

While in Med school, she won the first triathlon she entered, and got a 250 score on her second step exam. And is now an MD. (Got her mother's brains!)

 

As far as women not getting computer science degrees...can you blame them? Who would choose to sit in front of a computer all day? There are not too many things more boring than programming. Maybe, Accounting, or being a Pharmacist.

 

But as far as Science, there are more women in Med school now than men. More women in college.

 

Just wait until they "get the vote!" s/

 

Best.

 

Nice!  : )

Similar situation with me and my nieces.

Change does take time.

Like you (I imagine,) I just don't see any reason sensible change should take a whole generation or more to occur.

post #127 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post
 

 

Nice!  : )

Similar situation with me and my nieces.

Change does take time.

Like you (I imagine,) I just don't see any reason sensible change should take a whole generation or more to occur.

Good of you to say! Thx, bro. 

 

Your nieces are very fortunate. This may sound silly, but I think when a niece/daughter is shown things like fishing, or playing catch or making models, she is treated more like a boy. Being female, the end result is, she's treated more like a "person."  I know, sounds silly.

 

Real quick: When she was six, I got a moderately priced microscope. I wanted her not to be squeamish around bugs (I am "very" squeamish around bugs!)

 

I could never kill a living insect, but we would take the dead ones we found and look at their wings, eyes, legs, etc. Fascinating.

 

When she was seven I went to the local university and bought a 13" pickled frog and a dissecting kit. My Dad (Degree in Chemistry) and my nine year old nephew and Alex dissected it one Saturday afternoon. It was amazing...all the organs were dyed different colors.

 

We had frog legs for dinner. (Not the dissected one.)

 

Anyway, Best regards! :)

post #128 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post

Who gives a rat's a$$. If you're qualified should be the first criteria, minority, women, white, etc shouldn't be a criteria. We don't need affrimative action at the board level. Layoff backseat drivers and let management do it's job!

Stop frothing. Sensible people here are simply pointing out that the two sets of attributes are not mutually exclusive.

 

In all likelihood, what’s happening is that this not an issue that Apple has thought a lot about, and they’re now beginning to. It’s not like they’re being venal or anything. It probably didn’t occur to them that it could be a big deal, that’s all.

post #129 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by eacumm View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnkolar View Post

And short people, and people with speech impediments, and lactose intolerant people, and people with peculiar surnames, and left handed people and people who use Wintel computers, and children, oh the children....

Good God, people, grow up.

You forgot ATHEIST and you just discriminated against ATHEIST not one but twice, once by excluding them from your list and second by by saying GOOD GOD.

Reductio ad absurdum.

post #130 of 175
Think you're a few pages late with that.

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post #131 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Stop frothing. Sensible people here are simply pointing out that the two sets of attributes are not mutually exclusive.

In all likelihood, what’s happening is that this not an issue that Apple has thought a lot about, and they’re now beginning to. It’s not like they’re being venal or anything. It probably didn’t occur to them that it could be a big deal, that’s all.

Really? Two things you missed about my post, first I wasn't addressing people on this forum, I was addressing the so called "critics." Second I think you're right, apple didn't think about that because they could careless about anything other than talent, as they should.
post #132 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

So many businesses that are run by ethnic minorities are 100% the race of that minority. Go to your nearest South Korean supermarket in the US and see how many blacks or whites are working there. Whites generally employ all races, the same is often not the case with other races.

There can be no doubt that the Apple board are choosing people who have the most to offer and will add to the overall cohesion and success of the board. The Apple board is not going to hire say, either a woman or a Mexican just because some authoritarian outsider calls it commonly over used names like, "racist" and "misogynistic". The demographics and success of Apple's board shows clearly how decisions based on board members views and experience are far more important than meddling politician's. 

You know there's a difference between mom &pop shops and multi-national corporations, right?
post #133 of 175
Didn't realize Silicon Valley boards had quotas for these things.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #134 of 175
cheers christopher126, good points you're making but the larger context IMHO is too fine for some to accept and address.
post #135 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post

apple didn't think about that because they could careless about anything other than talent, as they should.
Of course, because public image and inclusive company culture are meaningless things, right?

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post #136 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post


Really? Two things you missed about my post, first I wasn't addressing people on this forum, I was addressing the so called "critics." Second I think you're right, apple didn't think about that because they could careless about anything other than talent, as they should.

Ok. Replace 'people on this forum' with 'critics' in my comment.

As to 'talent,' please. Apple has had a fair number of white male duds. Papermaster, Rubin, Forstall, and Browett come to mind right away.

I am sure I could easily add another half dozen if I thought about it for a couple of more minutes.
post #137 of 175
Bit mean to call Forstall a dud, but otherwise a good point. Those pleading the talent only angle have some rather large holes in their argument.
Edited by Crowley - 1/6/14 at 5:01pm

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post #138 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Didn't realize Silicon Valley boards had quotas for these things.

No, it's just smart business.

For instance, given that China has become Apple's most substantial market after the US -- and could even overtake the US some day -- I would, as an Apple shareholder, like Apple to get a solid Chinese corporate leader on board. I'd take someone like that any day over the Intuit guy, the J Crew guy, the Avon lady, or the has-been politician. .
post #139 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post

apple didn't think about that because they could careless about anything other than talent, as they should.
Of course, because public image and inclusive company culture are meaningless things, right?

Heh heh. Good point, especially considering Cook's recent speech at Auburn: http://bit.ly/19O232l
post #140 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Ok. Replace 'people on this forum' with 'critics' in my comment.

As to 'talent,' please. Apple has had a fair number of white male duds. Papermaster, Rubin, Forstall, and Browett come to mind right away.

I am sure I could easily add another half dozen if I thought about it for a couple of more minutes.

So what you're telling me is that they chose to hire "duds" rather than hiring qualified minorities?

Forstall is a talented individual just hard to work with and not a team player. Apple isn't perfect by any means. Listen we can go around with this, and I can certainly get into some history about Apple because I know some history firsthand. But I am going to call it a night, you win. This post isn't going to make a difference in my life past, present or future. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. have a great evening.
post #141 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Of course, because public image and inclusive company culture are meaningless things, right?

That's not what I said. I don't understand what's not clear here? Do you want them to hire incompetent people just because they happen to belong to a particular group? Or should they look for the best and what ever group you belong to is of no consequence. I am color blind, straight, gay, Christian, or whatever doesn't matter to me. I look at people as human beings. Anything otherwise is wrong period. That's what's wrong with our society we seem to have this need to put labels on people, why? Is black better than white? Are men better than women? Is straight better than gay? I hope your answer is no. If it is, then why should this be any consideration in hiring someone unless they deliberately are choosing one group over another? I am saying they're not.
post #142 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

No, it's just smart business.

For instance, given that China has become Apple's most substantial market after the US -- and could even overtake the US some day -- I would, as an Apple shareholder, like Apple to get a solid Chinese corporate leader on board. I'd take someone like that any day over the Intuit guy, the J Crew guy, the Avon lady, or the has-been politician. .

I'm pretty sure Andrea Jung is Chinese.
post #143 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

No one with any intelligence whatsoever gives a flying frick. Apple isn’t going to hire “minorities” to fill some magical quota. They’ll hire who can do the job, whoever that may be.

 

AI, don’t perpetuate this nonsense.

 

Apple can't have anyone as bad as that ex CEO of Google he's cost Apple billions, oh and I like Al Gore on the board, but T-Baggin white men have trouble with Gore being on the board.

post #144 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by trobbi33 View Post

Who cares!!!

 

Al Gore's name comes up all the time someone out there cares.

post #145 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post

That's not what I said. I don't understand what's not clear here? Do you want them to hire incompetent people just because they happen to belong to a particular group? Or should they look for the best and what ever group you belong to is of no consequence. I am color blind, straight, gay, Christian, or whatever doesn't matter to me. I look at people as human beings. Anything otherwise is wrong period. That's what's wrong with our society we seem to have this need to put labels on people, why? Is black better than white? Are men better than women? Is straight better than gay? I hope your answer is no. If it is, then why should this be any consideration in hiring someone unless they deliberately are choosing one group over another? I am saying they're not.
The reason it might be a consideration is the obvious one that should be apparent from the criticism being applied, diversity and representation. If Apple doesn't have any women on its exec team then issues affecting women might sail past the male only group. If there are no black men then they may lack an appreciation of what matters to their black employees and customers. And moreover, what message is an an all-white, all-male exec team sending to the thousand of employees that aren't male and white - you'll never reach this level because you're not the right colour and don't have the right equipment. Not great for morale or ambition that, is it not?

Note that I'm not accusing Apple of doing this deliberately, or even consciously, but it is an effect that will likely be promulgating through their power corridors, and ignoring it, and the importance of diversity at all levels is going to damage the company.

In terms of solutions, the straw man being put up is quotas and affirmative action. Why? That hasn't been suggested from the pro diversity side (as far as I can see). I don't think it's the best solution either, far better would be to recognise the state of affairs, provide corporate sponsorship for encouraging diversity schemes, commit to encouraging diversity throughout the ranks by including promoting diversity in goals and person specifications when hiring, and start outreach schemes to schools particularly targeting minorities with low representation. It's not a big extra ask for a company with Apple's resources; they're probably doing some of it already, but could benefit from being more open about it.

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post #146 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

What to do to fix the problem? Again, not sure. Electing an African American president and he appointing a female Secretary of State is certainly encouraging!

I can see what you're saying that it's good to have supporting evidence that the explicit barriers we knew existed have been broken down. However, those people weren't elected/appointed because of their race and gender, their race/gender just didn't stop them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

As far as women not getting computer science degrees...can you blame them? Who would choose to sit in front of a computer all day? There are not too many things more boring than programming. Maybe, Accounting, or being a Pharmacist.

But as far as Science, there are more women in Med school now than men. And most if not all have science degrees. More women than men in college, too.

That's exactly it though, computer science is sitting in front of computers all day. This is what Apple does besides building hardware. If a woman had to choose between being on a board at Burberry or being on a board at Apple and their interests were in fashion, they'd have no reason to be involved with Apple. As it happens, Burberry has just 3/9 female board members, all members are white and the CEO is going to work for Apple soon:

http://www.burberryplc.com/about_burberry/directors-and-management
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN 
I just don't see any reason sensible change should take a whole generation or more to occur.

What is the change you want to see though? That more women are interested in technology companies?

The board members are listed here:

http://investor.apple.com/faq.cfm?FaqSetID=6

There's 7 men and 1 woman. This is an American company so it's not entirely unnatural that all the men are white. 63% of America is white, Hispanic/Latino 17%, African American 13%, Asian 5%:

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000.html

Is it necessary for as few as 8 people to reflect diversity? If the stats matched with the population then they'd have 5 white members, 1 Hispanic, 1 African American and 1 Asian. Andrea Jung is of Asian descent and the ratio of women in the tech sector would lead to 1/8 being female. So they're really just short 1 black man and 1 Hispanic man.

I think an interesting point is that the complaint originates from a shareholder group that sounds like the Icahn type:

http://www.trilliuminvest.com

"For investors seeking ethical and mission-related investing strategies, Trillium is a leader in shareholder advocacy and public policy work. Our goal is to deliver both impact and performance to our private and institutional investors."

Sounds like they are trying to switch the board under the guise of equality to get some leverage. This is what these leeches do all the time:

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/08/19/icahn-seeks-to-replace-clorox-board/?_r=0
post #147 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by macAdmin20 View Post

cheers christopher126, good points you're making but the larger context IMHO is too fine for some to accept and address.

Thanks, bro. Nice of you to say. And welcome to Ai! :)

 

Yep, in future I will stick to topics like whether or not iMacs should have "glass" screens or why non-removable batteries are good! :)

 

Best regards! 

post #148 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


You know there's a difference between mom &pop shops and multi-national corporations, right?

Very funny! I love it. You've got a great sense of the absurd! :)

post #149 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

The reason it might be a consideration is the obvious one that should be apparent from the criticism being applied, diversity and representation. If Apple doesn't have any women on its exec team then issues affecting women might sail past the male only group. If there are no black men then they may lack an appreciation of what matters to their black employees and customers. And moreover, what message is an an all-white, all-male exec team sending to the thousand of employees that aren't male and white - you'll never reach this level because you're not the right colour and don't have the right equipment. Not great for morale or ambition that, is it not?

Note that I'm not accusing Apple of doing this deliberately, or even consciously, but it is an effect that will likely be promulgating through their power corridors, and ignoring it, and the importance of diversity at all levels is going to damage the company.

In terms of solutions, the straw man being put up is quotas and affirmative action. Why? That hasn't been suggested from the pro diversity side (as far as I can see). I don't think it's the best solution either, far better would be to recognise the state of affairs, provide corporate sponsorship for encouraging diversity schemes, commit to encouraging diversity throughout the ranks by including promoting diversity in goals and person specifications when hiring, and start outreach schemes to schools particularly targeting minorities with low representation. It's not a big extra ask for a company with Apple's resources; they're probably doing some of it already, but could benefit from being more open about it.

I don't disagree, as long as they're qualified. I think what you're saying is make it a priority to find qualified minorities right? If so, I can't confirm whether Apple is doing that or not. I believe they are but maybe not at the Director level, I don't know. But I stand firm on hiring competent individuals in order to truly accomplish what you suggest. Otherwise it'll simply be nothing more than pacifying their customers and their critics while providing no value.
post #150 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


The reason it might be a consideration is the obvious one that should be apparent from the criticism being applied, diversity and representation. If Apple doesn't have any women on its exec team then issues affecting women might sail past the male only group. If there are no black men then they may lack an appreciation of what matters to their black employees and customers. And moreover, what message is an an all-white, all-male exec team sending to the thousand of employees that aren't male and white - you'll never reach this level because you're not the right colour and don't have the right equipment. Not great for morale or ambition that, is it not?

Note that I'm not accusing Apple of doing this deliberately, or even consciously, but it is an effect that will likely be promulgating through their power corridors, and ignoring it, and the importance of diversity at all levels is going to damage the company.

In terms of solutions, the straw man being put up is quotas and affirmative action. Why? That hasn't been suggested from the pro diversity side (as far as I can see). I don't think it's the best solution either, far better would be to recognise the state of affairs, provide corporate sponsorship for encouraging diversity schemes, commit to encouraging diversity throughout the ranks by including promoting diversity in goals and person specifications when hiring, and start outreach schemes to schools particularly targeting minorities with low representation. It's not a big extra ask for a company with Apple's resources; they're probably doing some of it already, but could benefit from being more open about it.

Man oh man, I wish I had written this! Well done!

 

This is now my opinion! :)

 

Best.

post #151 of 175
I think companies should be free to choose their employees without restriction, slave and child labour notwithstanding. If a company ends up with an all female workforce, sobeit. All male, ditto. If there is unrestricted competition, the cream should rise to the top.
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post #152 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


I'm pretty sure Andrea Jung is Chinese.

Her parents may be, but she most certainly is not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Jung
post #153 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacMan View Post


So what you're telling me is that they chose to hire "duds" rather than hiring qualified minorities?
.

Um, no.
post #154 of 175

Jeez, Where is Sammy Davis, Jr. when you need him?

 

/s

OMG here we go again...
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OMG here we go again...
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post #155 of 175
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
So what you're saying is there are no minorities or other women (aside from Jung) who can do the job.   

 

Thanks for the strawman.

 
The reality is that “old white boy clubs feel most comfortable with other "old white boys". So in their heads, they feel those people are the most qualified.

 

Prove that this is how Apple operates. Otherwise stop the FUD.

 

That doesn't mean not bringing in the best, but it means being more open to considering different kinds of people.    

 

Thanks for the implication that Apple is not open to considering different kinds of people. When you have any proof of your assertion, please post it. Until then, stop the FUD.

 

Originally Posted by dragyn427 View Post
(right-handed white guy's hand

 

Whoop de FRICKING do. Had it been black, you would have whined it was a man’s hand. Had it been a left handed woman, you would have whined it was white. 

 

This is the kind of argument on this topic that makes me the most upset, I think. The ones where they get to pretend they’re in the right whatever their opponent does because of… hmm, what is it, false equivalency?

 

Guess what: they’re not gonna show more than one hand picking up a tablet at once. Get over it.

 
affluent

 

Oh, just shut up.

 
Note that, under Steve's watch, this semi-subtle change would *never* have happened.

 

And go away.

 

Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
No history? The make up of the board and the exec team suggests that they might.

 

Of course it does¡

 
…the makeup of the board and exec team is troubling and worth criticizing.

 

“It is troubling that the best people for the job available at the company are doing the job,” is your position.

 

Golly, that’s even worse.

 
No idea what that’s supposed to mean…

 

Sure you don’t.

 
That's their entire HR policy? Pretty lacking.

 

I’m sure there’s a bit in there about bullying, stealing time from the company, sexual harassment, and sick days, but quite frankly it doesn’t need to be any more complicated than that.

 

It’s a job. It’s not a women’s rights rally, it’s not an anti-racism protest, it’s not a meeting of the Old Boy’s Club.  What matters at the job is the job. Whoever does the job that does it best receives the best out of it. Screw your emotions; work isn’t any more complicated than that.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #156 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Her parents may be, but she most certainly is not. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Jung
I'm sorry, what? Being Canadian or American doesn't make you less Chinese.
post #157 of 175
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
I'm sorry, what? Being Canadian or American doesn't make you less Chinese.

 

Wait… what?

 

I, for example, am just about exactly one quarter each Swiss, German, English, and Irish, but all the branches of my family have lived in the United States since before the Revolution (and fought therein). So I’m not American, eh?

 

Does this also translate to language? In that English isn’t from England, it’s Greek/Latin/French/German because of where it originated?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #158 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

I'm sorry, what? Being Canadian or American doesn't make you less Chinese.

LOL.

Why, you're totally right. Now that you've set me straight, I realize that Apple had all the diversity it needed even back in Jobs's days, since it had a Lebanese person Syrian on both the board and in top management.

Heck, a Lebanese Syrian even founded the company!

PS: I kid. He was only half-Lebanese Syrian (and a Polish person was a founder too).

PPS: Yes, I left the sarcasm tag off.

PPPS: Thanks, TS. ;-)
Edited by anantksundaram - 1/7/14 at 5:16am
post #159 of 175
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Why, you're totally right. Now that you've set me straight, I realize that Apple had all the diversity it needed even back in Jobs's days, since it had a Lebanese person on both the board and in top management.

Heck, the Lebanese even founded the company!

 

Wait, wasn’t Jobs’ father Syrian? Not that it matters to your point.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #160 of 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No one with any intelligence whatsoever gives a flying frick. Apple isn’t going to hire “minorities” to fill some magical quota. They’ll hire who can do the job, whoever that may be.

AI, don’t perpetuate this nonsense.

Of the 25 million black women in America, surely *one* is capable.
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