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Apple, Samsung CEOs to attend mediation ahead of upcoming patent case

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Apple CEO Tim Cook and Samsung CEO Oh-Hyun Kwon have agreed to attend a mediation session by Feb. 19, about one month before the two tech titans are scheduled to return to the courtroom for yet another round of patent litigation.

Samsung Phones


According to a court filing first spotted by Reuters, Cook and Kwon will meet with in-house lawyers to discuss a possible out-of-court resolution before the two parties' second California patent trial begins in March.

The high level mediation is an offshoot of a Jan. 6 conference in which Apple and Samsung counsel met to "discuss settlement opportunities."

From Wednesday's notice:

Pursuant to this Court's November 13, 2013 Order that the Parties submit a proposal regarding settlement discussions before the March 2014 trial, Apple and Samsung jointly submit this Notice that the parties have agreed to the following:

  • Senior legal executives from Apple and Samsung legal met in person on Monday, January 6, 2014 to discuss settlement opportunities;
  • The parties agreed upon a mediator who has experience mediating high profile disputes. Mediation will take place by or before February 19, 2014;
  • Each party's Chief Executive Officer and 3-4 in-house counsel will attend the mediation;
  • No outside counsel will attend the mediation.


Cook previously met with Samsung Vice Chairman Choi Gee-sung and mobile head Shin Jong-Kyun in July of 2012 in a similar mediation session meant to broker some sort of resolution before the landmark Apple v. Samsung patent trial. The meeting was ultimately fruitless as disagreements on patent worth stalled forward progress.

Apple and Samsung are suing each other over alleged infringed patents dealing with smartphone and mobile device technology and design. This second case is slated to begin on Mar. 31.
post #2 of 46
What Samsung did still makes me sick. Aweful

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post #3 of 46
just get another billion from them..
post #4 of 46

Regardless of the outcome of this mediation, I think it is paramount Apple (in it's own timeframe) drops Samsung as a material parts supplier.   If I was TC, I would make that one of my top goals over the next three to five years 

 

They simply cannot be trusted.  And trust is everything  

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post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post
 

Regardless of the outcome of this mediation, I think it is paramount Apple (in it's own timeframe) drops Samsung as a material parts supplier.   If I was TC, I would make that one of my top goals over the next three to five years 

 

They simply cannot be trusted.  And trust is everything  

I would love to see that but Samsung makes so many components and has patents on some/many of them that it would be difficult for Apple to totally get away from them. The problem isn't Samsung per se, it's Samsung Mobile or whatever that division is called. I haven't heard that many bad things about the other Samsung divisions.

 

edit: I went back to the Mac Pro take-apart and found the following Samsung components. This isn't a long list so many these three things could be sourced from another vendor. They are all found on the PCIe flash storage card. I presume the entire card is made by Samsung so Apple would need to find a totally different source--maybe OWC can come up with one :-) 

Samsung S4LN053X01-8030 (ARM) Flash Controller
Samsung K9HFGY8S5C-XCK0 Flash Storage (this is the big one)
Samsung K4P4G324EB 512 MB RAM


Edited by rob53 - 1/8/14 at 7:19pm
post #6 of 46
 

Apple, Samsung CEOs to attend mediation ahead of upcoming patent case

 

“All right, gentlemen, I just want to lay down the purpose of this meeting for the standard rea–”

“…What in the world is that?”

“What’s wrong, Mr. Cook?”
“Look at him. Look.”

“I don’t see…”

“You see the impudence of the American? We haven’t even started!”

You shut up. Look at him. What’s he wearing?”

“A… white shirt, black blazer, glossy blue tie…”

“Yeah. He is. Do you see what’s wrong with that?”

“Not real–oh.”

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post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmia View Post

just get another billion from them..

 

That's cheap. Tell Sumsung- Go compete with low end phones! No matter what you do- You guys are finished :lol:

post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

I would love to see that but Samsung makes so many components and has patents on some/many of them that it would be difficult for Apple to totally get away from them. The problem isn't Samsung per se, it's Samsung Mobile or whatever that division is called. I haven't heard that many bad things about the other Samsung divisions.

 

edit: I went back to the Mac Pro take-apart and found the following Samsung components. This isn't a long list so many these three things could be sourced from another vendor. They are all found on the PCIe flash storage card. I presume the entire card is made by Samsung so Apple would need to find a totally different source--maybe OWC can come up with one :-) 

Samsung S4LN053X01-8030 (ARM) Flash Controller
Samsung K9HFGY8S5C-XCK0 Flash Storage (this is the big one)
Samsung K4P4G324EB 512 MB RAM

 

Great analysis 

 

Samsung makes VERY good flash 'hard' drives.  It also is a primary supplier for flash drives in Apple's laptops.  No doubt finding a replacement would be a big challenge for Apple.  But it has to move off of Samsung.   That is the goal, and it needs to work backwards to make that happen 

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post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post
 

Regardless of the outcome of this mediation, I think it is paramount Apple (in it's own timeframe) drops Samsung as a material parts supplier.   If I was TC, I would make that one of my top goals over the next three to five years 

 

They simply cannot be trusted.  And trust is everything  

Cringely suggests Apple may be strong-arming Intel into building its ARM processors as it continues to shuck its dependence on Samsung, a step that would remove the back-stabber's good lung. Truth be told, there would be dancing on all streets that lead to AI were it to be so.

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post #10 of 46
Mis-read this as "meditation" and thought that sounded like a great idea for working through their conflict. Oh well.
post #11 of 46
How's this going to work? Cook offers a deal, Sammy copies it. Brilliant.
post #12 of 46

Do not negotiate with samsung, the sneakiest organization in the world.......

Samsung will never stop copying as well as tech-theft under any circumstances.....because samsung's DNA is to copy without much efforts.

You should remember that the collapses of Japanese high-tech companies are mainly due to samsung's countless espionage and piracy. It is widely known that a huge number of japanese engineers has been bribed by samsung's black money, thereby visiting samsung in korea to transfer technology illegally as a return of black money. Many cab drivers in samsung's area testify that they carryed a huge number of japanese engineers every weekend for a very long time.

Samsung has a substantial number of spies in Intel, Qualcomm, Apple, Google, Ericsson, etc to steal their core technologies.......If no one stops them, similar things will happen to European and American companies....

post #13 of 46
Originally Posted by budha View Post

Samsung has a substantial number of spies in Intel, Qualcomm, Apple, Google, Ericsson, etc to steal their core technologies...

 

Interesting accusation. Do you have proof? That’d destroy them, if true.

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post #14 of 46
post #15 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

I would love to see that but Samsung makes so many components and has patents on some/many of them that it would be difficult for Apple to totally get away from them. The problem isn't Samsung per se, it's Samsung Mobile or whatever that division is called. I haven't heard that many bad things about the other Samsung divisions.

 

edit: I went back to the Mac Pro take-apart and found the following Samsung components. This isn't a long list so many these three things could be sourced from another vendor. They are all found on the PCIe flash storage card. I presume the entire card is made by Samsung so Apple would need to find a totally different source--maybe OWC can come up with one :-) 

Samsung S4LN053X01-8030 (ARM) Flash Controller
Samsung K9HFGY8S5C-XCK0 Flash Storage (this is the big one)
Samsung K4P4G324EB 512 MB RAM

 

Please stop being weak they are the same company.

post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post
 

 

Great analysis 

 

Samsung makes VERY good flash 'hard' drives.  It also is a primary supplier for flash drives in Apple's laptops.  No doubt finding a replacement would be a big challenge for Apple.  But it has to move off of Samsung.   That is the goal, and it needs to work backwards to make that happen 

 

It's been said 3-5 years Samsung gone like Google Maps, take 5-10 billion dollars and build a Apple chip making plant in the US, it has to be done.

post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Oak View Post
 

 

Great analysis 

 

Samsung makes VERY good flash 'hard' drives.  It also is a primary supplier for flash drives in Apple's laptops.  No doubt finding a replacement would be a big challenge for Apple.  But it has to move off of Samsung.   That is the goal, and it needs to work backwards to make that happen 

 

@Red Oak: not necessarily very good drives.  I think Samsung's flash memory market share is close to 45% (and still growing) -- followed by Toshiba with 25% or so.  If you are a volume buyer like Apple, you simply can't avoid dealing with Samsung. 

post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooltalk View Post

@Red Oak: not necessarily very good drives.  I think Samsung's flash memory market share is close to 45% (and still growing) -- followed by Toshiba with 25% or so.  If you are a volume buyer like Apple, you simply can't avoid dealing with Samsung. 

Why did you quote market share when he was talking about the quality of a component?
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post #19 of 46
"Like being offered a glass of ice water in hell" ーas someone once put it ^_−☆
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

“All right, gentlemen, I just want to lay down the purpose of this meeting for the standard rea–”
“…What in the world is that?”
“What’s wrong, Mr. Cook?”

“Look at him. Look.”
“I don’t see…”
“You see the impudence of the American? We haven’t even started!”
You shut up. Look at him. What’s he wearing?”


“A… white shirt, black blazer, glossy blue tie…”
“Yeah. He is. Do you see what’s wrong with that?”
“Not real–oh.”


That's hilarious and you have WAY too much time on your hands.
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post #21 of 46

My 1st smartphone was a Samsung Galaxy S because my carrier at the time (Sprint) did not carry the IPHONE. 

 

When I received the phone I literally thought it was a IPHONE.  Blatant Copy..

 

When I upgraded my phone I purchase an IPHONE 5.  What a world of improvement over the Samsung phone..  Everything was easy.

 

As people say about Apple.... It just works.

 

Now I have an IPAD and a MACBOOK AIR.  No more viruses or compatibilty issues.  Android OS is a mess when you go between products.. ie phone / tablet / laptops...

 

You get what you pay for with Apple.

post #22 of 46

I wonder if the anti-trust 'monitor' is going to demand that he attend the mediation at $2000/hr?

post #23 of 46
Quote:

Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

 

The problem isn't Samsung per se, it's Samsung Mobile or whatever that division is called. I haven't heard that many bad things about the other Samsung divisions.

 

A decade or two ago Samsung's television division did to Sony what they are currently doing to Apple. Then there was the big to do in Korea because Samsung's consumer appliance division (stoves, refrigerators, etc.) was copying their Korean sister company LG.

 

And this is just looking at their past instances of Samsung copying from competitors and using their manufacturing expertise to pump out large volumes of lower priced product almost indistinguishable from their competitor's product. On top of that you can look at all of the instances over the last couple of decades of Samsung, or its employees, being investigated and found guilty of crimes ranging from false advertising, to corruption and bribery.

 

No, the problem is definitely with Samsung the company. It is just that their mobile divisions is the one doing it now.

post #24 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
 

I wonder if the anti-trust 'monitor' is going to demand that he attend the mediation at $2000/hr?

 

Now you are just being ridiculous. He demanded to have a meeting with the CEO of Samsung and has complained that Apple is hampering his investigation, oops MONITORING ;) ;), into their eBook policies when nobody listened to him.

post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by chip825 View Post
 

My 1st smartphone was a Samsung Galaxy S because my carrier at the time (Sprint) did not carry the IPHONE.

 

When I received the phone I literally thought it was a IPHONE.  Blatant Copy..

 

When I upgraded my phone I purchase an IPHONE 5.  What a world of improvement over the Samsung phone..  Everything was easy.

 

As people say about Apple.... It just works.

 

Now I have an IPAD and a MACBOOK AIR.  No more viruses or compatibilty issues.  Android OS is a mess when you go between products.. ie phone / tablet / laptops...

 

You get what you pay for with Apple.

 

I call BS

 

Sprint's version of the Galaxy S was the Epic and it has a full slide out qwerty keyboard.

 

It's been one of the best phones I've ever owned!

post #26 of 46

The way this story reads, there will be no outside parties present, only in-house counsel and executives.  In that case, how is this a "mediation", which implies intervention by a third party, as in arbitration?  Did I miss something?  Will there be a judge present?

 

Otherwise, this just seems like another "negotiation" meeting.

 

Thompson

post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

I would love to see that but Samsung makes so many components and has patents on some/many of them that it would be difficult for Apple to totally get away from them. The problem isn't Samsung per se, it's Samsung Mobile or whatever that division is called. I haven't heard that many bad things about the other Samsung divisions.

 

edit: I went back to the Mac Pro take-apart and found the following Samsung components. This isn't a long list so many these three things could be sourced from another vendor. They are all found on the PCIe flash storage card. I presume the entire card is made by Samsung so Apple would need to find a totally different source--maybe OWC can come up with one :-) 

Samsung S4LN053X01-8030 (ARM) Flash Controller
Samsung K9HFGY8S5C-XCK0 Flash Storage (this is the big one)
Samsung K4P4G324EB 512 MB RAM

 

About two years ago, Apple purchased Anobit, an Isreali company that specialized in flash memory controllers.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple suddenly turn up with some custom designs manufactured by someone else (Intel) for flash controllers just like they did for ARM processors.  Now as to flash storage (the big one you identified) it seems like there should be great competition in that arena.

post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

A decade or two ago Samsung's television division did to Sony what they are currently doing to Apple. Then there was the big to do in Korea because Samsung's consumer appliance division (stoves, refrigerators, etc.) was copying their Korean sister company LG.

And this is just looking at their past instances of Samsung copying from competitors and using their manufacturing expertise to pump out large volumes of lower priced product almost indistinguishable from their competitor's product. On top of that you can look at all of the instances over the last couple of decades of Samsung, or its employees, being investigated and found guilty of crimes ranging from false advertising, to corruption and bribery.

No, the problem is definitely with Samsung the company. It is just that their mobile divisions is the one doing it now.
Yep. Look at the new tablets they announced at CES. UI is blatant copy of Flipboard. Or even HTC sense. They have no shame.
post #29 of 46

This meeting my turn out different than the last one, There is a lot more water under the bridge from that first meeting and now, mainly Samsung has lost a number of their cases and claims. Obviously Apple is sitting in a much stronger position this time around, They won cases, they pulled business from Samsung. Samsung will have to decide if the course they are taking is in the total best interest of the company.

post #30 of 46
I posted this last time they were in "mediation" but it's worth repeating.

I bet a sticking point is publication of the settlement. Samsung would want the details secret. That way their army of shills can make it sound like Samsung came out in top and Apple had to concede. Apple would probably want to publish details so the world would really know Samsung had to concede.

The money at this point is trivial for both, IMO.

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post #31 of 46

He also demanded to meet with Al Gore and Jony Ive who have nothing to do with eBooks.

post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

I would love to see that but Samsung makes so many components and has patents on some/many of them that it would be difficult for Apple to totally get away from them. The problem isn't Samsung per se, it's Samsung Mobile or whatever that division is called. I haven't heard that many bad things about the other Samsung divisions.

 

edit: I went back to the Mac Pro take-apart and found the following Samsung components. This isn't a long list so many these three things could be sourced from another vendor. They are all found on the PCIe flash storage card. I presume the entire card is made by Samsung so Apple would need to find a totally different source--maybe OWC can come up with one :-) 

Samsung S4LN053X01-8030 (ARM) Flash Controller
Samsung K9HFGY8S5C-XCK0 Flash Storage (this is the big one)
Samsung K4P4G324EB 512 MB RAM

 

I believe it is assumed they should move all of the "custom" work elsewhere.  Off the shelf components are of no concern.

post #33 of 46
Yes,
It is difficult to understand, why Apple still persists in their manufacturing relationship with Samsung. Cook has been brilliant at 'out sourcing and logistics, but he seems to have a blind spot in this matter. It is great to see Apple's flagship computer being made and produced in the USA, and at such a competitive price. Why not all their products? Manufacturing technologies are now so advanced all over the world. I think that it is becoming increasingly possible to manufacture and design in the same continent economically. The USA, UK and Europe have millions of unemployed and underemployed citizens! Most processes are automated anyway. Think of all that wasted energy shipping stuff around the planet.
post #34 of 46
I am so hoping Cook brings a fake product plan to the meeting. Lets say its the iShoe with a screen on the toe to read your texts while sitting down. Intentionally let it slip out of a folder while Cook goes to the bathroom. I am 80% sure Samsung will release their version of it a month later; the Galaxy boot! lol
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by greatrix View Post

Yes,
It is difficult to understand, why Apple still persists in their manufacturing relationship with Samsung. Cook has been brilliant at 'out sourcing and logistics, but he seems to have a blind spot in this matter. It is great to see Apple's flagship computer being made and produced in the USA, and at such a competitive price. Why not all their products? Manufacturing technologies are now so advanced all over the world. I think that it is becoming increasingly possible to manufacture and design in the same continent economically. The USA, UK and Europe have millions of unemployed and underemployed citizens! Most processes are automated anyway. Think of all that wasted energy shipping stuff around the planet.

Given that for many components there are very few -sometimes only one - vendors that can actually manufacture stuff - with good yield - on the scale (say, 50 million units in 3 months) required by iPhones as opposed to the very small scale of the MacPro computer, I would say it is not difficult at all to understand why it can be very hard to switch horses even though you very much would like to.  I don't think Cook has a blind spot in this at all.  I think he is moving towards it pragmatically and deliberately, on a time frame that keeps the machine turning.  I think instead that you are underestimating both him and the challenges involved with replacing Samsung by other vendors.

post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

I posted this last time they were in "mediation" but it's worth repeating.

I bet a sticking point is publication of the settlement. Samsung would want the details secret. That way their army of shills can make it sound like Samsung came out in top and Apple had to concede. Apple would probably want to publish details so the world would really know Samsung had to concede.

The money at this point is trivial for both, IMO.

I think Apple will be fine with keeping the settlement private.  Apple treats all information like a national secret - especially business agreements.  And they don't seem particularly motivated by ego or spite.  I think that Apple will be happy enough with the end of blatant copying and perhaps some modest royalties flowing in from some patents they license to Sammy.  Based on those outcomes, and without publicizing it, the world will be able to glean soon enough what it all meant.  You are right that the money won't even move the needle, but its presence will be noticed and understood in their financial disclosures.    The world will know.

post #37 of 46

Funny because none of your "sources" mention anything about Samsung spies in foreign companies. Maybe you are just jealous that Samsung surpassed your Japanese companies(I can see that you are Japanese by looking at your username). Maybe Japanese companies should treat their young employees better and offer them better salaries/bonuses/etc that are better than Samsung's offer.


Edited by SpindleKnight - 1/9/14 at 1:52pm
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post
 

Given that for many components there are very few -sometimes only one - vendors that can actually manufacture stuff - with good yield - on the scale (say, 50 million units in 3 months) required by iPhones as opposed to the very small scale of the MacPro computer, I would say it is not difficult at all to understand why it can be very hard to switch horses even though you very much would like to.  I don't think Cook has a blind spot in this at all.  I think he is moving towards it pragmatically and deliberately, on a time frame that keeps the machine turning.  I think instead that you are underestimating both him and the challenges involved with replacing Samsung by other vendors.

 

Tim Cook and the present management at Apple would be morally bankrupt if they didn't pursue building in house production capacity of vital components, cpu's, memory and screen's, not even Apple can afford time after time being, the R&D department of the PC/phone tech industry, many people have simply said that Apple within 3-5 years has to make other arrangements. 

post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danox View Post
 

 

Tim Cook and the present management at Apple would be morally bankrupt if they didn't pursue building in house production capacity of vital components, cpu's, memory and screen's, not even Apple can afford time after time being, the R&D department of the PC/phone tech industry, many people have simply said that Apple within 3-5 years has to make other arrangements. 

I think that you are underestimating a lot of things with respect to your proposal.  My guess is that the idea has been considered and then found inferior to a different path.  But go ahead:  consider yourself wiser and less "bankrupt" than the subjects of which we speak.

post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post
 

I think that you are underestimating a lot of things with respect to your proposal.  My guess is that the idea has been considered and then found inferior to a different path.  But go ahead:  consider yourself wiser and less "bankrupt" than the subjects of which we speak.

 

Not wiser but the market will force them in that direction, just like the market forced Apple, to do Apple maps and to develop the A series chips, the me too companies aren't going to stop and Samsung/Google combo are above and beyond corrupt.

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