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Samsung planning to one-up Apple's Touch ID with iris scanner in Galaxy S5 - Page 2

post #41 of 185
Iris scanner will be a first, a creation of Samsung. That's honest competition.

Who can complain?
post #42 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Except it's not a retina scanner, it's a iris scanner which is in the front of the eye, but I really can't see that working too well. Sometimes one can't 'one up' the competition.

I read iris scanner but it didn't register with me until this post. Even when you mentioned the iris changes size I didn't pick up on it.

Has anyone produced a successful iris scanner biometric?

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post #43 of 185

~~“Many android users are fanatical about ass recognition technology. We are studying the possibility ass scanners instead of eye ...” Lee Young Hee, executive vice president of the Samsung’s mobile business, told Bloomberg at CES in Las Vegas.

 

Another Next Big Thing Is here from Samsung....

Access Your S5 By Scanning Your Ass!

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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post #44 of 185
so if you are wearing sunglasses ... do you have to take them off every time you want to unlock your phone? what about regular glasses?

The beauty of the TouchID is that you were gonna press the button anyway ... so there is no "new/added" step in the unlock process
post #45 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post

I can count on one hand how many times Touch ID has actually worked for me in the last 2 months. It refuses to even scan my fingerprints now.

Try training it for just one finger (or thumb) you might have better luck.
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post #46 of 185

Lets see... the phone rings while driving. Instead of putting my finger on the phone to answer, I have to cover my eye with the phone. Brilliant!

post #47 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

~~“Many android users are fanatical about ass recognition technology. We are studying the possibility ass scanners instead of eye ...” Lee Young Hee, executive vice president of the Samsung’s mobile business, told Bloomberg at CES in Las Vegas.
Another Next Big Thing Is here from Samsung....
Access Your S5 By Scanning Your Ass!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post

~~“Many android users are fanatical about ass recognition technology. We are studying the possibility ass scanners instead of eye ...” Lee Young Hee, executive vice president of the Samsung’s mobile business, told Bloomberg at CES in Las Vegas.
Another Next Big Thing Is here from Samsung....
Access Your S5 By Scanning Your Ass!

ROTFL.

Wouldn't you have the same problems? I mean the ass size could change, the skin pigiment could change. $h!t, they gotta choose another body part. Oh, well back to R&D
post #48 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
 

 

I can count on one hand how many times Touch ID has actually worked for me in the last 2 months. It refuses to even scan my fingerprints now.

Sounds like an issue that would be covered under warrantee.

post #49 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
 

Lets see... the phone rings while driving. Instead of putting my finger on the phone to answer, I have to cover my eye with the phone. Brilliant!

You don't need to unlock your phone when answering a call.

 

Otherwise would be a brilliant comeback.

post #50 of 185
Originally Posted by DaveN View Post
Lets see... the phone rings while driving. Instead of putting my finger on the phone to answer, I have to cover my eye with the phone. Brilliant!

 

You shouldn’t be touching it at all when you’re driving. In both cases, you’d hit a button on the steering wheel and the call would be answered.

post #51 of 185
Where will Samsung get the technology?

Most iris scanners are closely monitored by the US government for security reasons and accessing the technology without paying for it might be more difficult than borrowing it from Apple for a few years without paying.
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post #52 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yada Yada Yoda View Post

Interesting concept but there are a number of challenges in execution I think. With a few obstacles that I think ultimately will handicap it's use for the end client. Just my opinion though.
First the technical limitations - if you read the wiki on iris recognition (not retina scanning) it seems to work with few false positives. Except according to wiki "Many commercial iris scanners can be easily fooled by a high quality image of an iris or face in place of the real thing". If that's true than unlike fingerprints which they were able to break the iPhone 5S security by creating a model based off a fingerprint, then in theory a high quality picture would do.
A second technical limitation which I found a bit amusing was "Alcohol consumption causes recognition degradation as the pupil dilates/constricts causing deformation in the iris pattern" So it might not work if you're drunk!?
A third limitation I can see is light or lack thereof. If there is not enough light for the CCD camera to see the iris?
A fourth limitation might exist for people with glasses might cause a reflection degrading the image. Or colour contacts. Definitely sunglasses.
Other questions from a technology standpoint are how long does it have to scan an eye to achieve a result and how stable does the eye have to be? Also where is the data being stored? Seperately like the iPhone5s or somewhere in memory. And how easy would it be take control of the CCD camera and send a signal to it or send a virus to override it? The fingerprint scanner is totally separate from everything (or so I think) while the CCD camera on a phone is used for multiple purposes which I think in theory makes it more vulnerable. I also wonder how much power consumption is required comparing the two. If it comes at a cost of battery life (or phone weight) that wouldn't be good.

Moving away from technology I think the user experience also has to be taken into consideration. One of the reasons I would want a iPhone5s (i currently have a 5) is because it would allow me to easily access my phone while driving. Don't know how many times the password lock has made it a pain to quickly check something (maybe this is a good thing but there are certain times that a quick check or access of a address or phone number you have in an open email would be useful).
Second is as people mentioned the way people access the phone. The reader built into the home button is a natural progression of what they normally do. I don't think iris recognition is.
Ultimately it sounds like a "cool" technology rather than a non-intrusive technology like the iPhone 5s.

To be fair, I think we would want to see how it's executed but not sure how useful it's going to be... but having said that at least for me one of the primary reasons for wanting the fingerprint scanner would not be met with a iris recognition technology.

Regarding that second limitation, it would be funny if Samsung allowed you to capture 5 different irises as templates, like Apple does fingerprints. I would use four immediately: left eye (sober), left eye (shit-faced), right eye (sober), right eye (shit-faced).  Cue the jokes about what I could use the 5th register for...

post #53 of 185
You guys are missing what Samsung is trying to do.

They are gonna create a Google Glass clone, whose only purpose is to scan your iris, which then communicates with the Galaxy Note S6 and lets it know whether you are actually you.

They will make it part of Galaxy Gear products, and price it at $399, with a ridiculously long commercial which apes Apple's ipod mini commercials with people dancing with different colors, instead they will have people dancing with different colored glasses frames.

It will bring all the dorkiness of Google Glass without any of the benefits.

Alternatively, they could simply be an idea they are floating for Apple, so Apple figures out how to do it right, so they can copy it, and then point back to this statement to prove that it was Apple who was copying them.
post #54 of 185
If you are over 23 years of age and use a Samsung phone then you have failed at the game of life. Simple as that.

I am Applesupertramp and I am Steve.
post #55 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I'm interested to see what they come up with.

When Apple wanted a fingerprint scanner... they bought a couple companies who dealt with fingerprint scanning. Those companies were probably the best in that field, too. Fingerprint scanning isn't new anyway... it's been around for a while and is very mature at this point.

Is Samsung developing iris scanning technology themselves... or are they buying companies that already do this? I can't find anything that talks about this kind of technology... especially an iris scanner that would fit inside a phone.

And then there's the whole accuracy thing. It's gotta work damn near 100% of the time... or else it will be turned off and forgotten. Sadly... a lot of Samsung "features" end up in that category.

My iPhone 5S rarely gives me any trouble. I can probably count on one hand how many times I've seen the "Try Again" prompt. At most we're talking about a few times out of thousands of operations.

Then again... scanning a fingerprint with direct touch is probably a lot easier than scanning an eyeball from some distance away.

Apple's fingerprint scanner is the best implementation of that technology I've ever seen. And it's so simple... it's built into the button you already press. If Samsung plans to one-up that with an iris scanner... they better make sure it's damn good. Bring it!

 

I actually think that a combination of iris scanner and fingerprint scanning is what smartphones need, so I am looking forward to seeing this come to smartphones, if for no other reason than it will hopefully kick Apple in the rear to implementing it on their iPhones.

 

Yes, iris scans are not as convenient as fingerprint scans, but they are also more secure. People leave their fingerprints all over the place when they touch things. Heck, they leave their fingerprints on the very device that they are trying to secure. The iris doesn't leave anything behind when it looks at something.

 

A combination is perfect because touchID is quick and easy and doesn't require you to look at your device. However, it isn't as secure as an iris scan. For that reason, I could see a touchID used to unlock your device and a quick iris scan to perform an payment or something requiring something more secure than using a fingerprint left everywhere you touch.

 

That being said, this isn't going to be as easy as this article makes it sound. While, smartphones have the camera of resolution necessary to do iris scanning, the best iris scanners look at both real light and infrared images for recognition. Thus, the phones would have to be able to record infrared, which is usually not a big deal.

 

That being said, the component of all this that I see Samsung having the most trouble with is the secure part of the processor. Apple added an entire secure section to their processor, just to deal with security and the touchID. Samsung is going to have to do the same or it won't be nearly as secure and less useful. I don't know that they are to that point yet.

 

Either way, I do have to applaud Samsung for once. Yeah, I know: 

 

In the long run this move will force other companies, including Apple to up their security on their devices and iris scanning is perfect for the most secure features of a smartphone.

post #56 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I read iris scanner but it didn't register with me until this post. Even when you mentioned the iris changes size I didn't pick up on it.

Has anyone produced a successful iris scanner biometric?

Successful iris scanners are in fact a thing. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_recognition

 

This looks particularly interesting:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20060154-52.html (scroll down to "Iris on the Move")

 

It looks like there are products capable of scanning irises at range, at an angle, and while the person is moving. The ones described here cost upwards of $7000 and are fairly bulky compared to a smartphone; if Samsung have found a way to produce low-cost miniaturized iris scanners then that's a very impressive achievement. I suspect we won't see it due to size / accuracy / price / complexity constraints, though.

post #57 of 185
Watch it be called "eyesight"

Also, people hold their phones to their faces all the time. Video chatting?
post #58 of 185

Great the touch ID was great when unlocking phone while driving (I know it is a no no) but just imagine now I have to hold the damn phone in front of my face while driving?  LOL

post #59 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

No matter what Apple comes out with, Samsung will try to one-up Apple. That's how successful businesses compete. Samsung must have a huge R&D department seeing how they manage to put out so many products of all different types within such a short time. Apple can barely manage to put out one new product a year while Samsung comes out with 20 new products which I find amazing from a logistics standpoint. Their copy machine division must have hundreds of people working around the clock.

I fixed it for you.

post #60 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

I'm interested to see what they come up with.

When Apple wanted a fingerprint scanner... they bought a couple companies who dealt with fingerprint scanning. Those companies were probably the best in that field, too. Fingerprint scanning isn't new anyway... it's been around for a while and is very mature at this point.

Is Samsung developing iris scanning technology themselves... or are they buying companies that already do this? I can't find anything that talks about this kind of technology... especially an iris scanner that would fit inside a phone.

And then there's the whole accuracy thing. It's gotta work damn near 100% of the time... or else it will be turned off and forgotten. Sadly... a lot of Samsung "features" end up in that category.

My iPhone 5S rarely gives me any trouble. I can probably count on one hand how many times I've seen the "Try Again" prompt. At most we're talking about a few times out of thousands of operations.

Then again... scanning a fingerprint with direct touch is probably a lot easier than scanning an eyeball from some distance away.

Apple's fingerprint scanner is the best implementation of that technology I've ever seen. And it's so simple... it's built into the button you already press. If Samsung plans to one-up that with an iris scanner... they better make sure it's damn good. Bring it!

I suspect it will rely on the front facing camera, which will take a picture of your eye and process that using no special sensor.
post #61 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post
In the long run this move will force other companies, including Apple to up their security on their devices and iris scanning is perfect for the most secure features of a smartphone.

I love it when some say that it will force Apple to do something.

 

Historically speaking Apple is the company that marches to its own drumbeat.

exhibit A: What did computers look like before the Macintosh

exhibit B: What did music players look like before the iPod

exhibit C: How did we listen to music before iTunes

exhibit D: How did smartphones function, if you can call it that, before the iPhone

exhibit E: What were tablets before the iPad

 

So whose example is Apple supposed to follow again?

post #62 of 185
Samsung is developing so much new technology. Apple will have to stop counting on American protectionism to do business. They will have to do R&D soon.

I would like to see a Smartwatch from Apple. For now, Apple can't produce a Smartwatch superior to the first model of the Samsung Gear? That's why there is no iWatch. I like to buy best technology. I would like to buy something from Apple.

Please go to R&D and honor the memory of Steve Jobs.
post #63 of 185
Duplicate post, please delete
Edited by dasanman69 - 1/9/14 at 9:51am
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post #64 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

No matter what Apple comes out with, Samsung will try to one-up Apple. That's how successful businesses compete. Samsung must have a huge R&D department seeing how they manage to put out so many products of all different types within such a short time. Apple can barely manage to put out one new product a year while Samsung comes out with 20 new products which I find amazing from a logistics standpoint. Their product planning division must have hundreds of people working around the clock.

Apple tends to license tech or buy out companies with tech that looking interesting. Case in point is Touch ID in which AuthenTec originally made their tech available in Android phones. Or their 64-bit CPU which is a customized ARMv8-A-based chip. NVIDIA already unveiled their 64-bit ARM chip and others to follow shortly.

 

One thing that concerns me is Intel. At the rate ARM-based chips are improving in energy efficiency and performance, Intel should be seriously worried ARM could become an inexpensive threat in the not too distant future. ARM already dominates phones, tablets, handheld consoles (Nintendo 3DS and PlayStation Vita), smart TVs, and children's educational toys.

post #65 of 185

Will this be as successful and ubiquitous as Face Lock? 

post #66 of 185
Yes, an iris scanner. Maybe they'll add that to their already dumb as hell watch ad, where the idiot with phone in hand, instead of answering the phone, turns it away and answers with the watch. So intuitive! Why answer the phone in your hand with the actual phone? Perhaps the new ad will show the same idiot answering with the watch and then turning the phone back to his face to scan for final confirmation, and then going back to talking on the watch. Ugh, these people are idiots.
post #67 of 185
Well, they wouldn't be copying anyone, and they wouldn't have to worry about anyone copying them for that horrible idea, so there's that.
post #68 of 185

Iris Scanner for Samsung Glass.....:smokey:

post #69 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDBA View Post

I love it when some say that it will force Apple to do something.

Historically speaking Apple is the company that marches to its own drumbeat.
exhibit A: What did computers look like before the Macintosh
exhibit B: What did music players look like before the iPod
exhibit C: How did we listen to music before iTunes
exhibit D: How did smartphones function, if you can call it that, before the iPhone
exhibit E: What were tablets before the iPad

So whose example is Apple supposed to follow again?

You forgot
exhibit F: what did fingerprint scanners on smartphones look like before and after the iPhone 5s?
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post #70 of 185
Maybe ear recognition would be better, since people are already accustomed to holding their phone up to their ear!

(Kidding, of course.)
post #71 of 185
I'm skeptical that they will be able to make an iris based identification system that works as well as Touch ID (which isn't perfect). It's very natural to place your thumb on the Touch ID sensor when grabbing the device to activate/unlock it. Will you need to hold the phone in front of your fact and look straight at it to authenticate via an iris. Best of luck Samsung.
post #72 of 185
I'm skeptical that they will be able to make an iris based identification system that works as well as Touch ID (which isn't perfect). It's very natural to place your thumb on the Touch ID sensor when grabbing the device to activate/unlock it. Will you need to hold the phone in front of your fact and look straight at it to authenticate via an iris. Best of luck Samsung.
post #73 of 185


Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

Either way, I do have to applaud Samsung for once. Yeah, I know: 

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post #74 of 185
I agree with the comments here. I get the feeling that Samsung is made up of the same type of designers who thought that I wanted a television remote with 30 buttons plus a flap to hide the buttons that they knew I didn't actually want in the first place.

The only possibly "good" implementation of this technology is if it integrates with Google Glass.
post #75 of 185
An in convenient truth:

Having wasted some of their R&D on fingerprint tech and couldn't get it to work they are now scrambling to find another way to do it. Obviously scanning the iris is not the way to go because it is much more inconvenient and probably technically more difficult to get a good image, Oh yeah having to remove one's glasses and/or sunglasses to access the phone. Nice one Samsung, go ahead waste more money . Samsung is doomed I tell you .Samsung's share price is down from a high of especially afte the warning they issued. Finally all the false hype and sales manipulation is coming home to roost i.e. Bottom line is a company's share price is fueled by profit (revenue) just watch what happnes as Samsung profits drop Samsung has another big problem: its reliance on Android: money. Overseas versions of the OS are often stripped of their Google functionality, in favor of local alternatives like Baidu basically negating Samsung profit-sharing arrangement with Google . With a different operating system a truly neutral one Samsung could leverage its market share into lucrative deals with regional content providers. Better margins could turn into a decisive advantage as smartphones commoditize, and competition becomes a function of price.

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post #76 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by mknopp View Post

.
Yes, iris scans are not as convenient as fingerprint scans, but they are also more secure. People leave their fingerprints all over the place when they touch things. Heck, they leave their fingerprints on the very device that they are trying to secure. The iris doesn't leave anything behind when it looks at something.

Except for its image on anything set up to record it. You need physical access to lift a fingerprint, but the very existence of Samsung's scanner (if it does exist) shows you can easily scan and copy someone's iris from a distance.

According to research, a good quality image of the iris is all you need to fool most iris scanners - and the way cameras are getting, that could mean just cropping your photo from Facebook.
post #77 of 185

I don't think I want to pay $1500 for a remote! or even $50

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History reduce Apple Watch.... to a footnote in the annals of technology - Benjamin Frost Dec 2014



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post #78 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpd514 View Post

Iris scanner will be a first, a creation of Samsung. That's honestly misguided competition.
 

 

Fixed that for you...

post #79 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

Successful iris scanners are in fact a thing. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_recognition

This looks particularly interesting:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20060154-52.html (scroll down to "Iris on the Move")

It looks like there are products capable of scanning irises at range, at an angle, and while the person is moving. The ones described here cost upwards of $7000 and are fairly bulky compared to a smartphone; if Samsung have found a way to produce low-cost miniaturized iris scanners then that's a very impressive achievement. I suspect we won't see it due to size / accuracy / price / complexity constraints, though.

1) Thanks for the links.

2) In Samsung's defense they have the money to through at R&D and if you look at AuthenTec's demos before Apple incorporated it's hard to imagine it could ever reasonably be in a smartphone.


Even in last 2009 on an LG phone it still had the old-fashion swipe down method of authentication.

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post #80 of 185

I doubt that this has anything to do with security. It's probably a useless, cheap gimmick that doesn't work very good, just like the face recognition crap turned out to be.

 

I also believe that Android users in general do not care too much about security, and I also believe that most of them do not have much worth protecting in the first place.

 

What kind of dumb crook or hacker would want to gain access to an average Android user's phone? Where is the value there? What is to be gained? We are talking about the same people here who don't even want to pay for WIFI access on flights, and the same people who put the C in cheap, with a capital C. Really, what is to be gained from stealing an Android phone? A bunch of debt? A negative bank balance? Their welfare checks? Do many Android users even have a bank account? An Iris scanner on an Android device sounds like a huge waste.

 

There is a reason why Apple devices are the most in demand devices for thieves to steal. 

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