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Apple's domestic Mac sales surge 28.5% as overall PC market shrinks 7.5% [u] - Page 2

post #41 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

Wait. Dell GREW?

 

Dell has very nice new laptops (with QHD+, or Retina, or whatever they are, displays).

post #42 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post
 

 

Wall Street understand advertising. Amazon loses money because they want to. Bezos plows every dollar of profit back into the company and Wall Street understands that. They don’t understand Apple, never have, and never will. Apple doesn’t play by their rules. Investors are there to make money, not agree or disagree with the corporate culture, motives, ethics, vision, mission, etc. Investors make money when the stock price rises and dividends are high. AAPL has been trading in a narrow range almost all of 2013. No money to be made there... for an investor. AT&T trades within a narrow margin too but pays very good dividends.

 

Look, I agree that Apple is unique, makes excellent products that people like to buy, has always been the innovator the rest of the world looks to for what the future holds. Sales are rising, market share is declining, margins and profits are the envy of the tech industry, Apple is firing on all cylinders. Wall Street has always been about what can you do for me right now.” How can you reward me with money this instant.

 

Hello? Apple HAS NOT been trading in a narrow range through most of 2013. Those of us not born yesterday remember that it hit high $300 range not so long ago. As for investors, every pension fund/mutual fund is holding bucketfuls of AAPL, it is still one of the top two companies in the world by market cap, so I would not shed any tears for it.

post #43 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

 

All of Google's revenue come from search advertising, but they have no competition (I am not sure what their market share is, but it is probably in the 70% range at the very least). Dell is a PC company, but a consumer laptop is not really viewed as being in the same space as a server, and a monitor is not the same as either one of the two, so this analogy is specious.

Um, no, it's not specious.  You said that Apple was a one trick pony because 60% of their revenues come from iPhones.  That premise is patently incorrect, as 40% of their revenues come from other sources.  However, to stay with you flawed premise, Google has a higher percentage of revenues coming from search than Apple has from iPhones.   Market share is irrelevant to a one trick pony characterization.  So, your original characterization of Apple is specious.

post #44 of 96

Helped by new iMac and MBA. The current MBA is very capable. When Broadwell arrives with even better GPU and GPGPU capabilities it will be a even better deal. I do hope Apple consider 6 or 8 GB Memory though for MBA. 

post #45 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post
 

Um, no, it's not specious.  You said that Apple was a one trick pony because 60% of their revenues come from iPhones.  That premise is patently incorrect, as 40% of their revenues come from other sources.  However, to stay with you flawed premise, Google has a higher percentage of revenues coming from search than Apple has from iPhones.   Market share is irrelevant to a one trick pony characterization.  So, your original characterization of Apple is specious.

I did not say that Apple was a one trick pony, someone else did, but iPhone is a single product, not a product family, and there is a lot of competition in that space (unlike in search).

post #46 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post
 

Helped by new iMac and MBA. The current MBA is very capable. When Broadwell arrives with even better GPU and GPGPU capabilities it will be a even better deal. I do hope Apple consider 6 or 8 GB Memory though for MBA. 

 

I am pretty sure mine has 8GB...

post #47 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

I did not say that Apple was a one trick pony, someone else did, but iPhone is a single product, not a product family, and there is a lot of competition in that space (unlike in search).

 

The iPhone is a product family composed of the current products:  5S, 5C, 4S.

 

There is not a lot of US competition for Google but Google has significant regional competition in other countries and virtually no share in China (3%).  Google's share in Korea is around 25%.  Yahoo is amazingly #1 in Japan.

post #48 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
 

 

The iPhone is a product family composed of the current products:  5S, 5C, 4S.

 

There is not a lot of US competition for Google but Google has significant regional competition in other countries and virtually no share in China (3%).  Google's share in Korea is around 25%.  Yahoo is amazingly #1 in Japan.

Fair points all, but a family composed of three very similar products is not the same as selling servers, workstations, laptops (of various flavors), etc, etc.  Re search, I am guessing (but correct me if I am wrong), that Google is also dominant in Europe, and in neither US or Europe is it threatened. As for Japan, I thought the Yahoo PORTAL was big in Japan, not so much search, but I could certainly be wrong.

post #49 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Wall Street understand advertising. Amazon loses money because they want to. Bezos plows every dollar of profit back into the company and Wall Street understands that. They don’t understand Apple, never have, and never will. Apple doesn’t play by their rules. Investors are there to make money, not agree or disagree with the corporate culture, motives, ethics, vision, mission, etc. Investors make money when the stock price rises and dividends are high. AAPL has been trading in a narrow range almost all of 2013. No money to be made there... for an investor. AT&T trades within a narrow margin too but pays very good dividends.

Look, I agree that Apple is unique, makes excellent products that people like to buy, has always been the innovator the rest of the world looks to for what the future holds. Sales are rising, market share is declining, margins and profits are the envy of the tech industry, Apple is firing on all cylinders. Wall Street has always been about what can you do for me right now.” How can you reward me with money this instant.
since when is it okay for a for-profit company to lose money? Everyone says this about Amazon as though Bezos can just flip a and switch be profitable. And how is it that other companies can plow lots of $$ into R&D and infrastructure and still turn a profit. And how is it that Amazon's "plowing profit back into the business" is all expense. Wouldn't a lot of it be capitalized and depreciated over time, especially anything that has to do with land, buildings, equipment, etc. I'm sorry but I don't buy this "Amazon could be profitable if it wanted to" nonsense. Why is it that only Amazon seems to get away with no profits. And if I was an investor how long would I have to wait for profits to come?
post #50 of 96

Microsoft is ending support and security patches for Windows XP on April 8, I wonder if there will be a flood of people upgrading ancient computers? Apple should try to get them to switch, maybe with an ad campaign, because the XP-> OS X learning curve may be less than the XP -> Windows 8.1 curve.

post #51 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Microsoft is ending support and security patches for Windows XP on April 8, I wonder if there will be a flood of people upgrading ancient computers? Apple should try to get them to switch, maybe with an ad campaign, because the XP-> OS X learning curve may be less than the XP -> Windows 8.1 curve.

1) I agree with everything you said and their targeted ads for Get A Mac when Vista bombed in the public eye appear to have boosted Mac switchers considerably, but for some reason they didn't do anything when Win 8 bombed so I don't have faith they will create new Mac ads even though I think they should.

2) Any chance MS will extend WinXP support yet again?

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post #52 of 96

XP was very popular with Microsoft and maybe they will bring it back once again.

post #53 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

Mac sales don't count for hardly anything as far as Apple's revenue stream is concerned.  It's all about iPhone market share and Apple is losing that in huge amounts.  Apple shareholders will be lucky if Apple shares stay above $500.  Apple is a joke of an investment.  Google has a target price of around $1350 while Apple has a target price of around $590.  One stock will reach it and the other won't.  It's no secret that company with a CEO named Tim Cook is going repeat last year's share price fiasco.  There's absolutely no growth left in Apple as long as they try to gain market share against Android.  H-P is a wreck of a company but at least they're leading in PC sales.  Over the last 52 weeks H-P stock has nearly doubled while Apple went up 2%.  That's how poorly Wall Street thinks about Tim Cook's performance as a CEO.  Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone six years ago and it's fortunate he's not around to see his company being turned into an industry joke.

Overall this is a totally ignorant comment but considering the source I am not surprised.

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post #54 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

XP was very popular with Microsoft and maybe they will bring it back once again.

I thought XP was...ok, doable, endurable. But I was very surprised it didn't have a firewall nor DVD playback software, that was strangely omitted.

Of all their OS's, I'd say NT4 was the 'best'. Least intrusive, did what it could do. But still, that they never got rid of the Registry is beyond me. Among the many things, obviously.

Friend of mine has a Dell Latitude D830, running XP with IE8, which is all he needs; he only browses the web on that thing. After some websites don't work well anymore with IE8 I told him use his iPad, but he apparently comes across Flash sites often and says he wants 'the full web'. Whatever. So I reinstalled XP and IE8 cleanly, getting rid of all accumulated crap over the past 6 years but the darn thing still doesn't work right.

I think it won't matter much if MS is going to extend XP support or not; if websites move on using newer tech people will still be limited to IE8 on XP.
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post #55 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What's with the stupid pie charts. So basically everyone's numbers went up except "others", whoever that is.

 

You might want to look at them again.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

Mac sales don't count for hardly anything as far as Apple's revenue stream is concerned.

 

Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone six years ago.

 

The 1st part is a double negative.

Either they don't count for anything OR they count for hardly anything.

 

Erm, 7 I think you'll find. 

No other product has bought on a change in the market like the iPhone has.

post #56 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Why can't you be reasonable? I don't think your posts have always been so curmudgeonly odious. What's up with you, Odo?

Well he did say ... "Mac sales don't [sic] count for hardly anything as far as Apple's revenue stream is concerned. " 1biggrin.gif
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #57 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


since when is it okay for a for-profit company to lose money? Everyone says this about Amazon as though Bezos can just flip a and switch be profitable. And how is it that other companies can plow lots of $$ into R&D and infrastructure and still turn a profit. And how is it that Amazon's "plowing profit back into the business" is all expense. Wouldn't a lot of it be capitalized and depreciated over time, especially anything that has to do with land, buildings, equipment, etc. I'm sorry but I don't buy this "Amazon could be profitable if it wanted to" nonsense. Why is it that only Amazon seems to get away with no profits. And if I was an investor how long would I have to wait for profits to come?

 

Your points are well taken, but AMZN is not alone. Consider, for example, Twitter. As far as I know, they don't even have a credible plan of how they might make money. Same is true of Tesla, and a whole bunch of other companies. What is a little surprising is that Bezos has convinced people that Amazon was a startup for the last fifteen years. Of course, Amazon does not actually lose money, it just does not make any.

post #58 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

Mac sales don't count for hardly anything as far as Apple's revenue stream is concerned.  It's all about iPhone market share and Apple is losing that in huge amounts.  Apple shareholders will be lucky if Apple shares stay above $500.  Apple is a joke of an investment.  Google has a target price of around $1350 while Apple has a target price of around $590.  One stock will reach it and the other won't.  It's no secret that company with a CEO named Tim Cook is going repeat last year's share price fiasco.  There's absolutely no growth left in Apple as long as they try to gain market share against Android.  H-P is a wreck of a company but at least they're leading in PC sales.  Over the last 52 weeks H-P stock has nearly doubled while Apple went up 2%.  That's how poorly Wall Street thinks about Tim Cook's performance as a CEO.  Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone six years ago and it's fortunate he's not around to see his company being turned into an industry joke.

 

What a bunch of rubbish...

 

HP - trading today for around $27/share.  Peaked in Jan 2000 at $66.28 then again in Jan 2010 at $53.15 and now, Jan 2014 around $27.00  Looks to me like they are way under water and there can be no comparison to Apple.  Apple could buy them with pocket change and not even be a blip on the radar.

 

GOOG vs AAPL

 

  • GOOG Market cap of 376.13 B
  • AAPL market cap of 479.78 B
  • Divide APPL market cap by yesterdays close, and we get 894,244,390 shares (for illustration purposes)
  • Divide GOOG market cap by those 894,244,390 shares
  • GOOG price per share as compared to APPL would be $421/share vs APPL at $536/share
  • APPL has how much in the bank????
post #59 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

Your points are well taken, but AMZN is not alone. Consider, for example, Twitter. As far as I know, they don't even have a credible plan of how they might make money. Same is true of Tesla, and a whole bunch of other companies. What is a little surprising is that Bezos has convinced people that Amazon was a startup for the last fifteen years. Of course, Amazon does not actually lose money, it just does not make any.

I love Amazon as a company but I would never invest in them. I don't think I can say that about any other company I use often. It's such a weird position and I don't get their investors. It's like some goober hanging out with a hot chick who only wants to be friends and has told him she only wants to be friends but he thinks if he waits long enough in the friend zone she'll change her mind. Amazon investors still expect Amazon to become wildly profitable at some point.


PS: Amazon is busy washing its hair this weekend.

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post #60 of 96
Hey, Michael Dell, what's up dude?
post #61 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by krankensigns View Post

Hey, Michael Dell, what's up dude?

"My US market share - that's what's up!"
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post #62 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Mac sales don't count for hardly anything as far as Apple's revenue stream is concerned.  It's all about iPhone market share and Apple is losing that in huge amounts.  Apple shareholders will be lucky if Apple shares stay above $500.  Apple is a joke of an investment.  Google has a target price of around $1350 while Apple has a target price of around $590.  One stock will reach it and the other won't.  It's no secret that company with a CEO named Tim Cook is going repeat last year's share price fiasco.  There's absolutely no growth left in Apple as long as they try to gain market share against Android.  H-P is a wreck of a company but at least they're leading in PC sales.  Over the last 52 weeks H-P stock has nearly doubled while Apple went up 2%.  That's how poorly Wall Street thinks about Tim Cook's performance as a CEO.  Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone six years ago and it's fortunate he's not around to see his company being turned into an industry joke.

So 1.7 million pc's @ $1200 each is not worth having? With 40%margins I make that about $816m profit for Apple. Most companies would love a profit of this size.
post #63 of 96
Where are those idiot Wall Street "Analysts" now?
post #64 of 96
Originally Posted by David291 View Post
Where are those idiot Wall Street "Analysts" now?

Same place as always.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #65 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by David291 View Post

Where are those idiot Wall Street "Analysts" now?

 

What does this have to do with anything? Mac sales is a small part of apple's revenue and profits (about 3%?) so neither the idiot nor the intelligent analysts care that much.

post #66 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post
 

Mac sales don't count for hardly anything as far as Apple's revenue stream is concerned.  It's all about iPhone market share and Apple is losing that in huge amounts.  Apple shareholders will be lucky if Apple shares stay above $500.  Apple is a joke of an investment.  Google has a target price of around $1350 while Apple has a target price of around $590.  One stock will reach it and the other won't.  It's no secret that company with a CEO named Tim Cook is going repeat last year's share price fiasco.  There's absolutely no growth left in Apple as long as they try to gain market share against Android.  H-P is a wreck of a company but at least they're leading in PC sales.  Over the last 52 weeks H-P stock has nearly doubled while Apple went up 2%.  That's how poorly Wall Street thinks about Tim Cook's performance as a CEO.  Steve Jobs introduced the iPhone six years ago and it's fortunate he's not around to see his company being turned into an industry joke.

 

Ya know how they have QFT as "quoted for truth"? Would anyone object if I coin QFL (quoted for laughs) as my own?

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post #67 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

 

What does this have to do with anything? Mac sales is a small part of apple's revenue and profits (about 3%?) so neither the idiot nor the intelligent analysts care that much.

 

Apple makes more money from Macs than HP+Dell+Asus+Sony+Samsung, combined, make from PCs (do the math or some research. You know how to browse the web or do some math, right? so don't vomit that 3% again). The Mac business itself is a fortune 500 company. It still is Apple's backbone, and it still growns in revenue.

 

The installed base is huge, especially in developed countries and you never saw as many macs in the wild as you can see today. Remember, as numerous data shows, the large % of macs being sold is to new users and:

 

- If you buy a PC and I buy a Mac, and 2 or 3 years later you buy another PC because the previous one is horseshit, market share is 2 to 1, but installed userbase is 1 to 1.

 

Heck, Google itself loves Macs. Just because Apple is getting ready for a 10 billion + net profit during a quarter, it doesn't mean that the mac business is irrelevant. If Analysts were knowlegedeble, the mac business itself should be bigger than HP + Dell + Asus combined, especially since they can still grow.

 

What were you saying?

post #68 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

I'm sorry but some of you (you, especially) are so ignorant, I wonder how you live during the day. Being so ignorant is your choice, you have everything to learn some facts about tech, so that gives me the right to call someone like you, stupid.

 

Apple makes more money from Macs than HP+Dell+Asus+Sony+Samsung, combined, make from PCs (do the math or some research. You know how to browse the web or do some math, right? so don't vomit that 3% again). The Mac business itself is a fortune 500 company. It still is Apple's backbone, and it still growns in revenue.

 

The installed base is huge, especially in developed countries and you never saw as many macs in the wild as you can see today. Remember, as numerous data shows, the large % of macs being sold is to new users and:

 

- If you buy a PC and I buy a Mac, and 2 or 3 years later you buy another PC because the previous one is horseshit, market share is 2 to 1, but installed userbase is 1 to 1.

 

Heck, Google itself loves Macs. Just because Apple is getting ready for a 10 billion + net profit during a quarter, it doesn't mean that the mac business is irrelevant. If Analysts were knowlegedeble, the mac business itself should be bigger than HP + Dell + Asus combined, especially since they can still grow.

 

What were you saying?

Do you think you will convince me by acting like a jerk? Think again, babaca.

post #69 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

What does this have to do with anything? Mac sales is a small part of apple's revenue and profits (about 3%?) so neither the idiot nor the intelligent analysts care that much.

You need to ask yourself why Apple continues to make Macs if it's such a small percent of their revenue and profits. Would you want 3% of your profits dropped all of a sudden? Do you think it would help Apple if they all of a sudden closed up all Mac development? How many billions are they now losing per year without any Macs? Since the iPod and Apple TV are such small parts of their business should they close up that, too? What about iTunes Store and iCloud services since those make svn less profit than their HW?

So now we have a company that only makes iPhones and iPads which are each very successful even though the company is now a fraction of its previous size and power. Does that help or hurt Apple and their investors? How many iDevice buyers have bought Macs? IOW, are they getting crossover sales from customers having first bought an iPod, iPhone and/or iPad, which are less expensive? The answer is yes!

You're coming at this as if the Mac is just a bunch of excess fat that needs to be removed, and not an important 3%. I consider the Mac to be a very important part of their business. A part that ties into other parts and one that Apple not cares about but is pushing the boundaries in ways that makes it good for all PC buyers out there.


PS: Amazon would be lucky to get 3% profit in a quarter so I guess they whole company should be closed¡

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post #70 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You need to ask yourself why Apple continues to make Macs if it's such a small percent of their revenue and profits. Would you want 3% of your profits dropped all of a sudden? Do you think it would help Apple if they all of a sudden closed up all Mac development? How many billions are they now losing per year without any Macs? Since the iPod and Apple TV are such small parts of their business should they close up that, too? What about iTunes Store and iCloud services since those make svn less profit than their HW?

So now we have a company that only makes iPhones and iPads which are each very successful even though the company is now a fraction of its previous size and power. Does that help or hurt Apple and their investors? How many iDevice buyers have bought Macs? IOW, are they getting crossover sales from customers having first bought an iPod, iPhone and/or iPad, which are less expensive? The answer is yes!

You're coming at this as if the Mac is just a bunch of excess fat that needs to be removed, and not an important 3%. I consider the Mac to be a very important part of their business. A part that ties into other parts and one that Apple not cares about but is pushing the boundaries in ways that makes it good for all PC buyers out there.


PS: Amazon would be lucky to get 3% profit in a quarter so I guess they whole company should be closed¡

 

Apple makes Macs because (as you astutely note), 3% is better than 0%, and also Apple wants to be a "full-spectrum" device supplier (their definition of full-spectrum is different from Dell's, but the same idea) -- clearly their software offerings drive people to the Mac products to some extent, since they tend to work better there, from what I gather (I have never used iTunes on Windows). So, I am not suggesting that Apple drop their computer business, merely that its success is of very small significance to the company's market cap/stock price. In a way, actually, that business might do better if it were partially spun off: clearly the people working on the Mac Pro (say) don't get the same attention of the management as the iPhone group, for perfectly good reasons, and this is why (IMHO) it took so long to get the new machine out. Apple has tried the spinning off scheme before with their software business (and still, with Filemaker), and it seems to have been a mixed success. Since they are doing quite well for the last several years, I am sure a reorganization is not a high priority.

post #71 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


You need to ask yourself why Apple continues to make Macs if it's such a small percent of their revenue and profits. Would you want 3% of your profits dropped all of a sudden? Do you think it would help Apple if they all of a sudden closed up all Mac development? How many billions are they now losing per year without any Macs? Since the iPod and Apple TV are such small parts of their business should they close up that, too? What about iTunes Store and iCloud services since those make svn less profit than their HW?

So now we have a company that only makes iPhones and iPads which are each very successful even though the company is now a fraction of its previous size and power. Does that help or hurt Apple and their investors? How many iDevice buyers have bought Macs? IOW, are they getting crossover sales from customers having first bought an iPod, iPhone and/or iPad, which are less expensive? The answer is yes!

You're coming at this as if the Mac is just a bunch of excess fat that needs to be removed, and not an important 3%. I consider the Mac to be a very important part of their business. A part that ties into other parts and one that Apple not cares about but is pushing the boundaries in ways that makes it good for all PC buyers out there.


PS: Amazon would be lucky to get 3% profit in a quarter so I guess they whole company should be closed¡

As for Amazon, they have a different business, and different goals. This is a red herring, as you well know.

post #72 of 96
post #73 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

Apple makes Macs because (as you astutely note), 3% is better than 0%, and also Apple wants to be a "full-spectrum" device supplier (their definition of full-spectrum is different from Dell's, but the same idea) -- clearly their software offerings drive people to the Mac products to some extent, since they tend to work better there, from what I gather (I have never used iTunes on Windows). So, I am not suggesting that Apple drop their computer business, merely that its success is of very small significance to the company's market cap/stock price. In a way, actually, that business might do better if it were partially spun off: clearly the people working on the Mac Pro (say) don't get the same attention of the management as the iPhone group, for perfectly good reasons, and this is why (IMHO) it took so long to get the new machine out. Apple has tried the spinning off scheme before with their software business (and still, with Filemaker), and it seems to have been a mixed success. Since they are doing quite well for the last several years, I am sure a reorganization is not a high priority.

Your entire premise is flawed. Mac is significant to Apple. It's because of the Mac that the iPod, AppleTV, iPhone and iPad all exist. You can't simply say that because now Mac makes up a small percentage of Apple's profits due to a huge success of the iPad and iPhone that it's worthless. That is like saying Dell and HP don't care about the PC business because Apple takes around 50% of the industry's profits.

It's also foolish to state Apple is losing ground with the iPhone and iPad when they are making more profit every year. Hating on Apple doesn't make you correct.

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post #74 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Your entire premise is flawed. Mac is significant to Apple. It's because of the Mac that the iPod, AppleTV, iPhone and iPad all exist. You can't simply say that because now Mac makes up a small percentage of Apple's profits due to a huge success of the iPad and iPhone that it's worthless. That is like saying Dell and HP don't care about the PC business because Apple takes around 50% of the industry's profits.

It's also foolish to state Apple is losing ground with the iPhone and iPad when they are making more profit every year. Hating on Apple doesn't make you correct.

(a) You are putting words in my mouth (b) the comparison with Dell/HP seems bogus, because that IS ALL their business, so you are suggesting they leave the business. You are not alone, but it is understandable they disagree. (c) the historical significance argument is bogus: Should Lamborghini be anchored to their original farm equipment business? But (d) as I had said in my previous post, Macs are a part of Apple's strategy, so I am not suggesting they be dumped, merely (I am getting tired of repeating myself) that the ups and downs in Mac revenue are not really very relevant to the Apple P/L.

post #75 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Your entire premise is flawed. Mac is significant to Apple. It's because of the Mac that the iPod, AppleTV, iPhone and iPad all exist. You can't simply say that because now Mac makes up a small percentage of Apple's profits due to a huge success of the iPad and iPhone that it's worthless. That is like saying Dell and HP don't care about the PC business because Apple takes around 50% of the industry's profits.

It's also foolish to state Apple is losing ground with the iPhone and iPad when they are making more profit every year. Hating on Apple doesn't make you correct.

 

No, his premise is that the Mac is insignificant to Wall St analysis smart or dumb.  In that case he's correct.  A stellar year in Macs won't do much to move the profit needle for Apple.  Neither would any significant decline.  This is very clear from his statement:

 

"So, I am not suggesting that Apple drop their computer business, merely that its success is of very small significance to the company's market cap/stock price."

 

You're reading things into what he's saying that he isn't saying.  The fact that the mac may or may not be strategic is immaterial to most analysts.  Given that I don't think much of most analysts that's probably a true statement.  If nothing else it fits my biases.

 

Besides, Mac hasn't been central to Apple's valuation pretty much since they dropped "Computer" from the name of the company back in 2007.  Even here on AI nobody really cares anymore.  I remember the frenzy caused by even a spec bump around here and the huge anticipation for new models.  We had to have a whole temporary forum area for the madness.

 

Today the Mac Pro gets a mild bit of attention but a new iMac or MBP rev is just ho hum news.  And that's from enthusiasts.

post #76 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

No, his premise is that the Mac is insignificant to Wall St analysis smart or dumb.  In that case he's correct.  A stellar year in Macs won't do much to move the profit needle for Apple.  Neither would any significant decline.  This is very clear from his statement:

"So, I am not suggesting that Apple drop their computer business, merely that its success is of very small significance to the company's market cap/stock price."

You're reading things into what he's saying that he isn't saying.  The fact that the mac may or may not be strategic is immaterial to most analysts.  Given that I don't think much of most analysts that's probably a true statement.  If nothing else it fits my biases.

If that's the argument the I don't understand why it's argument. Besides Wall Street undervaluing everything Apple does that argument could be made back when Apple had the iPod and Mac operations. There was even talk that Apple should give up on the Mac business to focus solely on the iPod, but where would Apple be if there was no Mac to the AppleTV, iPhone, iPod Touch, iPad, and whatever se comes from the Mac HW and Mac OS X existing. Even if they netted 0% profit since iDevices first appeared it's still important to the success that Apple has seen since before there were iDevices, so I don't understand why such an argument would be made about how much profit the Mac pulls in today.
Quote:
Besides, Mac hasn't been central to Apple's valuation pretty much since they dropped "Computer" from the name of the company back in 2007. Even here on AI nobody really cares anymore. I remember the frenzy caused by even a spec bump around here and the huge anticipation for new models. We had to have a whole temporary forum area for the madness.

1) A lot of people said "Apple doesn't care about Mac people" when they dropped from Computer from their name. I don't think it means anything other than Apple branching out into additional markets where "computer" isn't an ideal term in the 21st century. This happened well after the success and supplement deduction of the Mac business by percentage and yet the Mac has never been better and more advanced that their WinPC counterparts.

2) If there was a frenzy how could there be no one that cares? I certainly care and this new Mac Pro seems to indicate people care.
Edited by SolipsismX - 1/12/14 at 1:56pm

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post #77 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

What does this have to do with anything? Mac sales is a small part of apple's revenue and profits (about 3%?) so neither the idiot nor the intelligent analysts care that much.

I think the real number is considerably closer to 30% than 3%.

If it really were 3%, then I'd probably say that dropping the product line would be the way to go as a business decision, unless there are some other strategic reasons for keeping it.

Edit: It's roughly 12% of revenue based on the filed 10-K for last year, so not nearly as high as I thought it would be.

iPhone: 54%
iPad: 18.6%
Mac: 12.5%
iPod: 2.6%
iTunes, software, etc. 9%
Accessories 3.3%

Page 27:
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AAPL/1761120739x0x701402/a406ad58-6bde-4190-96a1-4cc2d0d67986/AAPL_FY13_10K_10.30.13.pdf
Edited by JeffDM - 1/12/14 at 2:19pm
post #78 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


I think the real number is considerably closer to 30% than 3%.

If it really were 3%, then I'd probably say that dropping the product line would be the way to go as a business decision, unless there are some other strategic reasons for keeping it.

Edit: It's roughly 12% of revenue based on the filed 10-K for last year, so not nearly as high as I thought it would be.

iPhone: 54%
iPad: 18.6%
Mac: 12.5%
iPod: 2.6%
iTunes, software, etc. 9%
Accessories 3.3%

Page 27:
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AAPL/1761120739x0x701402/a406ad58-6bde-4190-96a1-4cc2d0d67986/AAPL_FY13_10K_10.30.13.pdf

Yes, but I was actually saying 3% of profits. I am not sure if Apple breaks profits out (I don't think so), but I am guessing that the Macs are much less profitable than the iPhone, which would bring the profit number below 10% (though probably still above 3%, it's true).

post #79 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I think the real number is considerably closer to 30% than 3%.

If it really were 3%, then I'd probably say that dropping the product line would be the way to go as a business decision, unless there are some other strategic reasons for keeping it.

Edit: It's roughly 12% of revenue based on the filed 10-K for last year, so not nearly as high as I thought it would be.

iPhone: 54%
iPad: 18.6%
Mac: 12.5%
iPod: 2.6%
iTunes, software, etc. 9%
Accessories 3.3%

Page 27:
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/AAPL/1761120739x0x701402/a406ad58-6bde-4190-96a1-4cc2d0d67986/AAPL_FY13_10K_10.30.13.pdf

Do we have a good enough idea of their net profit margins from each category listed? I'm pretty sure the iPhone is higher than anything else but I'd think iPad and Mac profit margins would be pretty close to each other.

But all that might be moot if we're looking at 1/8th of their revenue still coming from the Mac. it seems to me you'd be foolish to ignore 1/8th of any business. Wall Street might not care about the Mac but they certainly seem to care bout Apple's iTunes business which is only a part of the "iTunes, software, etc." category at only 9%. And since that 9% is considered to be a just above break-even business should we remove it entirely and recalculate the percentages without it?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #80 of 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Do we have a good enough idea of their net profit margins from each category listed? I'm pretty sure the iPhone is higher than anything else but I'd think iPad and Mac profit margins would be pretty close to each other.

But all that might be moot if we're looking at 1/8th of their revenue still coming from the Mac. it seems to me you'd be foolish to ignore 1/8th of any business. Wall Street might not care about the Mac but they certainly seem to care bout Apple's iTunes business which is only a part of the "iTunes, software, etc." category at only 9%. And since that 9% is considered to be a just above break-even business should we remove it entirely and recalculate the percentages without it?

I am curious, why do you say that the iTunes business is just above break-even? I would assume it would be printing money (since apple just takes a cut of everything passing through the iTunes ecosystem, and the curating expense is fairly modest, especially for the music side).

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