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Apple's Schiller 'unfollows' Tony Fadell and Nest after Google acquisition - Page 4

post #121 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post


That's actually an impossible statement to make. Some components of most Apple products have been designed by a 3rd party. Please don't make absolute statements when you don't know the facts.
Care to list the Apple products from 1998-now that were designed by a 3rd party? And to be clear when I'm talking design, I'm talking design of the end product, not an internal component.
post #122 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Just reading the history of the iPod itself would change someone's mind about how much Apple relies on 3rd parties.
Apple acquires technology but the end solution is in-house. Like AuthenTec. Apple isn't selling fingerprint scanners; they used the technology to create Touch ID. Perhaps you can give us a list of Apple hardware products that are designed by a 3rd party. My understanding is Tony Fadell, Jeff Robbin, etc. were all Apple employees by the time the iPod was released. Certainly the aesthetic design was in-house.
post #123 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deewin View Post
 

I have a feeling that Tim is upset after secretly not being able to buy Nest over Google. Tony has already worked for Apple and from one of his recent interviews (too lazy to find it) it seems like he doesn't want to go back there. 

Fadell had issues with Ive and Forstall.   He wasn't coming back to Cupertino anytime soon. 

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #124 of 157
So what? Talk about dregs. It's really pathetic that this is being treated like major news. It's not

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post #125 of 157
Is Nest really that valuable a company? There is unlikely any IP value there. There are competitors that make similar devices that get no press. In the fall of 2011 I had to install a new furnace. Bought Lennox furnace/air conditioner which gave me the option of including smart features. The furnace itself monitors the furnace internals and components, feeds the information to a thermostat controller. Emergency conditions are sent via wifi to the local installer, I get additional messages on my iPad and iPhone. And, of course, I can program and control the system using the app.

There is little value in the remote monitors like Nest thermostats unless there are deep integrations with the appliances.
Edited by waldobushman - 1/19/14 at 12:09am
post #126 of 157
*unlikely any IP*
post #127 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Apple acquires technology but the end solution is in-house. Like AuthenTec. Apple isn't selling fingerprint scanners; they used the technology to create Touch ID. Perhaps you can give us a list of Apple hardware products that are designed by a 3rd party. My understanding is Tony Fadell, Jeff Robbin, etc. were all Apple employees by the time the iPod was released. Certainly the aesthetic design was in-house.

 

Steve Jobs: "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."

 

... and to get it to work properly, the way that Apple wanted it to work, was not all in-house... until Apple bought the rights. The original software for iTunes, a lot of the technology for the  iPod... and Tony Fadell... who, in the beginning, was a consultant.

 

- Tony Fadell was hired as an engineering consultant to help create the iPod

 

- Sound Jam under newly hired Jeff Robbin became iTunes

 

- Apple bought Portal Player for the iPod design framework

 

- the basic software for the iPod came from Pixo

 

- the name, iPod, came from Vinnie Chieco, a freelance copywriter

 

So, as much as the shell came from Ive, in-house, the birth of the iPod came from many sources... including NeXt itself... and, according to Steve, design isn't just about the shell.

 

So, to compare it to Nest... Fadell might have had someone else design the shell but the engineering, the part that makes it work, came from in-house... because Nest isn't selling shells... it's selling thermostats.


Edited by island hermit - 1/18/14 at 10:45pm
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post #128 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post
 

Fadell had issues with Ive and Forstall.   He wasn't coming back to Cupertino anytime soon. 

 

... and Ive had issues with Forstall as well [.... and Jon Rubinstein].


Edited by island hermit - 1/18/14 at 10:48pm
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post #129 of 157

Nest has been around for quite a while now. We hardly ever heard anything about Nest on AppleInsider, except when they announce a new product. There was never any talk about Apple buying Nest. 

 

Why is it that all of a sudden, after Google pays a princely sum for Nest, people say that Apple should have bought Nest? What changed? How did Nest magically become the must-have company for Apple? Better yet, how does Google buying Nest magically turn it into the company that Apple should have bought instead?

post #130 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


what if Tony Fadell didn't want to go back to Apple? It's obvious if Apple had bought Nest they wouldn't have kept it as a stand alone product/division so where would Fadell go?

 

Tony Fadell was none too bright while at Apple. The moment the guy proposed Apple use mklinux for the kernel on the iPhone I knew this guy did not realize we NeXT engineers took over the company and its future.

 

You were never going to see Linux at Apple, period. The guy is a great bullshiter. There is no way he should have climbed the ranks within Apple like he did, but some folks managed [at the time] to garner steve's ear and if he liked you you got launched up quickly. If he didn't like you he'd bury you.

 

I give Fadell an A+ for creative branding of one subject: Tony Fadell.

post #131 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Steve Jobs: "Design is not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."

... and to get it to work properly, the way that Apple wanted it to work, was not all in-house... until Apple bought the rights. The original software for iTunes, a lot of the technology for the  iPod... and Tony Fadell... who, in the beginning, was a consultant.

- Tony Fadell was hired as an engineering consultant to help create the iPod

- Sound Jam under newly hired Jeff Robbin became iTunes

- Apple bought Portal Player for the iPod design framework

- the basic software for the iPod came from Pixo

- the name, iPod, came from Vinnie Chieco, a freelance copywriter

So, as much as the shell came from Ive, in-house, the birth of the iPod came from many sources... including NeXt itself... and, according to Steve, design isn't just about the shell.

So, to compare it to Nest... Fadell might have had someone else design the shell but the engineering, the part that makes it work, came from in-house... because Nest isn't selling shells... it's selling thermostats.
I've said multiple times that Apple acquires technology they think they need and then uses that technology in development of an end product/solution. And I've never said that design is only the shell. But a lot of the reporting of the Nest acquisition was that Google was infusing itself with good design by hiring Fadell. I'm just pointing out that the design most of the mediais referring to was done by someone else (Fred Bould of Bould design). Would Nest have sold as well as it did or have been featured in Apple stores if it didn't have sleek design? Because I keep hearing that there are cheaper solutions that work just as well (in some cases better) than Nest products do. But they probably don't look as nice on your wall/ceiling.
post #132 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and Ive had issues with Forstall as well [.... and Jon Rubinstein].
And Mansfield, Cue and Schiller all allegedly had issues with Forstall. According to John Gruber, Fadell left Apple because once the iPhone happened the iPod team was no longer the "A" team at Apple and Fadell wasn't a "B" team player.

http://daringfireball.net/2008/11/executive_scuttlebutt

I tend to believe Fadell and Forestall had issues because back in 2012 when he was asked about Apple firing Forstall, Fadell said "he got what he deserved".

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12/11/29/tony-fadell-recently-ousted-forstall-got-what-he-deserved

Of course it's all silly gossip and none of us what really happened.
post #133 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I give Fadell an A+ for creative branding of one subject: Tony Fadell.
Like this?
Quote:
http://www.fastcodesign.com/3016339/an-oral-history-of-apple-design-2013#2
At Apple, we were always asking, What else can we revolutionize? We looked at video cameras and remote controls. The craziest thing we talked about was something like Google Glass. We said, "What if we make visors, so it's like you're sitting in a theater?" I built a bunch of those prototypes. But we had such success with the things we were already doing that we didn't have time.

Notice how Fadell switches from "we" to "I" in that quote. One thing about current Apple executives is you never hear them say "I". It's always "we". With Fadell I hear lots of "I". I don't think that would fit in to Cook's current culture of collaboration and no politics.
post #134 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I've said multiple times that Apple acquires technology they think they need and then uses that technology in development of an end product/solution. And I've never said that design is only the shell. But a lot of the reporting of the Nest acquisition was that Google was infusing itself with good design by hiring Fadell. 

I would have thought that Google was more interested in Nest's experience with applied machine learning. Google usually emphasizes how smart and technologically advanced their products are, not how sleek they look.

post #135 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elias Schulkin View Post

The Nest is cool, but the Webee is what I'll be investing in. Not as invasive, and definitely better A.I. http://igg.me/at/webee-smart-home-automation/x/5944165

Intriguing. Conceptually, it addresses the thought that's been nagging me, that Nest by comparison is a one-trick pony in the home automation universe. Webee is a pretty ambitious effort for a startup, though the people no doubt are top-notch. I won't be a first adopter, but certainly will think about it should they be able to make it work in the real world. The first generation is pretty kludgy with all the plug-ins to run non-smart devices, so the next obvious step would be to incorporate the technology into, for instance, 110V or 220V outlets that can fit the dimensions of regular wall receptacles.

I'll differ with you on invasiveness, though. If the software and data are in the cloud and doing controlling and making suggestions and reminders to your home environment, then you're permitting it to be invasive. The real issue is - by whom?
Edited by Kibitzer - 1/19/14 at 3:03pm

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post #136 of 157
This purchase is an easy way round any anti-poaching agreements. You can see some of the ex-Apple people in the bio:

https://nest.com/about/



Loads of Mac users in there. Fadell showed Brin the Nest prototype years ago and Google was one of the early funders. All they needed to do was convince Apple guys to go work at a startup and then get bought by Google. They have one of the lead engineers for the iPhone, maybe he can finally sort out that lagging in Android. They also have one of the guys that secured Apple's patents.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/10570051/Google-buys-Wi-Fi-thermostat-company-Nest-Labs-for-3.2bn.html

"The deal values Nest at more than $2m for every day it has been in business, but Mr Fadell said it had not sold the business to the web search giant “on a whim”. “Google has been in the mix in some way or another for about three years of our almost four-year history,” he said.

It marks a blockbuster return for the venture capital firms – including Google’s own investment fund, Google Ventures – who backed Nest Labs. Kleiner Perkins Caulfield and Buyers, Shasta Ventures and Lightspeed Venture partners all have undisclosed stakes in the business.

Mr Fadell is also set for a major windfall, although the engineer has joked in the past that he is already so rich he “never needs to work again”."

http://blogs.wsj.com/venturecapital/2014/01/13/google-to-buy-nest-labs-for-3-2-billion-fantastic-return-for-investors/

"Kleiner Perkins will make a 20-fold return, a person familiar with the matter told The Wall Street Journal.

Mr. Nieh declined on Monday to speak to Nest’s financial performance in detail, saying only, “It’s grown rapidly.”"

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/30/3933412/nest-shipping-over-40000-thermostats-every-month

If the growth continues, they say 1 million units per year. That's significantly lower than any products Apple sells. Even the Apple TV is about 8 million per year now and typically Apple doesn't do hobbies.

The revenue isn't bad at $250 per unit but $250m per year is still a fair bit below the $3.2b purchase, especially as that's revenue and not profit. They only have 300 staff too so it's a lot to pay.

Yeah I'm going to unfollow Fadell too and Google. Oh wait, I wasn't following them anyway. Job done. I don't get how twitter can play such a meaningful part of people's lives. A 140 character limit pretty much requires you to discard most of the meaning in what you're saying. Maybe it'll change one day and actually be worth using:

http://www.thedrum.com/news/2013/10/04/twitter-tipped-increase-140-character-limit-accommodate-adverts-after-stock

I kind of wish twitter replaced SMS. Instead of using phone numbers, you'd just use the twitter id but the conversations would need to be private by default and not go on a public feed. That would be a neat way to get Apple support. Just send a short tweet about symptoms, tweet a picture with it. iMessage is sort of like this but there's no public counterpart so you can't find businesses or high profile people. Naturally individuals want some privacy but that can be an option. They can choose to only read tweets from trusted users and everything else can go into an unread stream.
post #137 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post

I would have thought that Google was more interested in Nest's experience with applied machine learning. Google usually emphasizes how smart and technologically advanced their products are, not how sleek they look.
You're probably right. I'm going strictly by the media reporting.
post #138 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Like this?
Notice how Fadell switches from "we" to "I" in that quote. One thing about current Apple executives is you never hear them say "I". It's always "we". With Fadell I hear lots of "I". I don't think that would fit in to Cook's current culture of collaboration and no politics.

 

Never mind.

 

Too early in the morning.


Edited by island hermit - 1/19/14 at 9:35am
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post #139 of 157
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Originally Posted by saltyzip View Post


The truth hurts doesn't it, Apple don't share anything outside their walled garden, everything is proprietary from cables to chargers to icloud to iMessage to facetime etc. etc.

 

You don't know much about Apple, now do you? Your post sounds like someone from 1992.

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post #140 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

So what? Talk about dregs. It's really pathetic that this is being treated like major news. It's not

Judging by the number of posts, people here don't seem to agree with you.
post #141 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

So what? Talk about dregs. It's really pathetic that this is being treated like major news. It's not

Judging by the number of posts, people here don't seem to agree with you.

 

The basis of the article - Schiller unfollowing Fadell - is certainly not news. The relevance of Nest to Apple or Google is the more interesting topic.

post #142 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

The basis of the article - Schiller unfollowing Fadell - is certainly not news. The relevance of Nest to Apple or Google is the more interesting topic.

However, it was precisely that news item which generated the content of which you speak.

 

To dismiss it as 'dreg' misses the larger point that AI perhaps did the right thing here by reporting it.

post #143 of 157
This article proves one thing...

it was a seriously slow news day, 'cause this isn't news, it's nothing. People unfollow people all the time, it's a desperate media outlet that tries to turn something so banal into a 'story'. Tsk, tsp!!
post #144 of 157
Off-topic comment removed.

Edited by v5v - 1/19/14 at 4:05pm
post #145 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Judging by the number of posts, people here don't seem to agree with you.

Oh please. Number of posts in a fan site like this is not a measure of the newsworthy ness of anything.

Especially when a fair number of the posts are about how sad such an article makes the site look. Or that most folks are ignoring it for what the article should have been about 'why google bought it in the first place

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #146 of 157
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post
Number of posts in a fan site like this is not a measure of the newsworthy ness of anything.

 

That’s the exact definition thereof, actually.

 

News is news because it’s noteworthy or new. This is both, by virtue of the fact that it’s being noted.

 

It’s the adult, contemporary version of the playground snub. The ‘pretend you’re not listening’ treatment. And those claiming it wasn’t a result of the Nest purchase have lost it.

post #147 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

Nest has been around for quite a while now. We hardly ever heard anything about Nest on AppleInsider, except when they announce a new product.


All 2 of them...
post #148 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

 

The basis of the article - Schiller unfollowing Fadell - is certainly not news. The relevance of Nest to Apple or Google is the more interesting topic.

However, it was precisely that news item which generated the content of which you speak.

 

To dismiss it as 'dreg' misses the larger point that AI perhaps did the right thing here by reporting it.

 

Completely agree. The article just about the purchase should have generated all the same discussion, but apparently there was still much left to discuss.

post #149 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

Nest has been around for quite a while now. We hardly ever heard anything about Nest on AppleInsider, except when they announce a new product.

I can find at least 6 previous AI articles about Nest before the Google news broke. They've always a company of interest here.
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post #150 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


I can find at least 6 previous AI articles about Nest before the Google news broke. They've always a company of interest here.

But Apple buying out Nest, I don't know if I heard that one. Maybe a few comments here or there on the forum, but the talk has reached a new level of intensity, after Google paid through their nose for it. It's almost as though people think Apple should have bought out Nest just to prevent Google from getting their hands on it. 

post #151 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

But Apple buying out Nest, I don't know if I heard that one. Maybe a few comments here or there on the forum, but the talk has reached a new level of intensity, after Google paid through their nose for it. It's almost as though people think Apple should have bought out Nest just to prevent Google from getting their hands on it. 

1) Your comment, that GG replied to, made no mention of Apple buying out Nest.

2) While completely legal and surely strategic I'm personally not a fan of companies buying others just to sit on the IP.

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post #152 of 157

Don't unfollow me bro!

 

On a serious note, it was obvious that Google really wanted Nest at any cost, the price they paid is utterly absurd.

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post #153 of 157
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Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post
 

Don't unfollow me bro!

 

On a serious note, it was obvious that Google really wanted Nest at any cost, the price they paid is utterly absurd.

 

The next one is Dyson.

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post #154 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Like this?
Notice how Fadell switches from "we" to "I" in that quote. One thing about current Apple executives is you never hear them say "I". It's always "we". With Fadell I hear lots of "I". I don't think that would fit in to Cook's current culture of collaboration and no politics.

 

The term, ``I,'' never fit at NeXT but it was a common theme during the merger from whining Apple employees wanting their sabbaticals before Steve pulled the plug on the program.

 

All of us wore several hats at NeXT and Apple. It's the difference between a spoiled brat and an adult. Fadell was never cut out to be Apple, never mind, NeXT material. The fact the guy was first hired solely as a contractor, after having worked in the past for Apple's subsidiary, General Magic, should have been a clue they found him narcissistic and needed to prove himself enough to warrant a stock structure.

 

From Tony's Wiki bio:

 

Quote:
 In 1995 he was hired by Philips where he co-founded their Mobile Computing Group and served as the Chief Technology Officer, and Director of Engineering. He developed a number of Windows CE-based handheld services, notably the Philips Velo and Nino PDA [5] Fadell went on to become a Vice President of Philips Strategy and Ventures where he was in charge of developing Philips' digital audio strategy consisting of technology direction for silicon and software, as well as its investment portfolio and potential business models.[6][7]

 

Who in their right mind hires a kid with 4 years professional industry experience, with a B.S. in Computer Engineering [by the way, it's a merging of a minor in CS and EE, focused on circuits and not large scale power systems] in 1991, to become CTO for Philips entire Mobile Computing Group. I'd have fired that decision maker on the spot.

post #155 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The term, ``I,'' never fit at NeXT but it was a common theme during the merger from whining Apple employees wanting their sabbaticals before Steve pulled the plug on the program.

All of us wore several hats at NeXT and Apple. It's the difference between a spoiled brat and an adult. Fadell was never cut out to be Apple, never mind, NeXT material. The fact the guy was first hired solely as a contractor, after having worked in the past for Apple's subsidiary, General Magic, should have been a clue they found him narcissistic and needed to prove himself enough to warrant a stock structure.

From Tony's Wiki bio:


Who in their right mind hires a kid with 4 years professional industry experience, with a B.S. in Computer Engineering [by the way, it's a merging of a minor in CS and EE, focused on circuits and not large scale power systems] in 1991, to become CTO for Philips entire Mobile Computing Group. I'd have fired that decision maker on the spot.
What did Apple pay for NeXT? Around $400M? Are we really supposed to believe Tony Fadell is worth more than Steve Jobs? Or that the engineers at Nest are more valuable than the engineers at NeXT were?
post #156 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

 

The term, ``I,'' never fit at NeXT but it was a common theme during the merger from whining Apple employees wanting their sabbaticals before Steve pulled the plug on the program.

 

All of us wore several hats at NeXT and Apple. It's the difference between a spoiled brat and an adult. Fadell was never cut out to be Apple, never mind, NeXT material. The fact the guy was first hired solely as a contractor, after having worked in the past for Apple's subsidiary, General Magic, should have been a clue they found him narcissistic and needed to prove himself enough to warrant a stock structure.

 

Funny, then, that it was Steve's lead engineer, a NeXT guy, who hired him. Fadell didn't want to join Apple. Rubinstein gave him an ultimatum which led Fadell to take the job. By the way... if Fadell hadn't taken the job it's very likely that the iPod would have died on the vine.

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post #157 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Really, AppleInsider?

You know, just because a worthless "story" that tangentially involves Apple appears on The Verge, does not mean it's worth copying.

Come on. This is really weak.

They are tracking users and viewership. If you keep it all Apple all the time, you get one set of users. If you toss it up with some trolling to draw in folks who aren't just interested in Apple, then they come in and troll, and the threads get longer. Then you can show the numbers to money folks.

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