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Apple may have sold upwards of 60 million iPhones over holiday quarter - Page 3

post #81 of 115

This is BS stock manipulation.

post #82 of 115
@sog35

AAPL is discounted by the street because they are 'just a hardware maker' ??

So how come all those other companies that are only a '_' have a PE of 20 or 50 or more? Don't get me started on Amazon.

When will Wall Street be rational? (Never, I know)
So then, 15% growth = 15 PE. Maybe.

Maybe jealousy is a factor. Since apple is the company to beat and all.
There seems to be a relentless corporate espionage level campaign to take apple down and is succeeding somewhat.

Hoping for that 'new category' from Apple.
Kind of a crazy high bar to set for any company. Will they ever be free of that?
How many iTunes level 'software' successes would it take? Banking? Advertising algorithm? Geez.
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #83 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I didn't agree with you and I don't think I can be any more clear about how writing an essay paper is a very, very short aim compared to an entire life's objective.

The bottom line is there are excellent strategies that achieve the desired goal in a short duration… and you use employ them constantly without even (consciously) thinking about them. I bet if you actually analyzed your mundane decisions over the next hour you find yourself making strategic decisions you never once considered to be of value and yet they are as part of the very fabric that gets you through your day-to-day activities.

 

... and I don't agree with you.

 

You changed the entire argument to suit your purposes. Originally we were talking about business. You moved onto personal goals (which still follow what I am saying, imo)

 

Move on. You're not very convincing.

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #84 of 115
Upwards of 60 million means a metric buttload, dudes! It also means more than 60, in other words, more than anyone is willing to estimate. I don't see anyone whispering excitedly, so I am going to go with a range of 59 million nine hundred thousand to 61 million.
post #85 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

@sog35

AAPL is discounted by the street because they are 'just a hardware maker' ??

So how come all those other companies that are only a '_' have a PE of 20 or 50 or more? Don't get me started on Amazon.

When will Wall Street be rational? (Never, I know)
So then, 15% growth = 15 PE. Maybe.

Maybe jealousy is a factor. Since apple is the company to beat and all.
There seems to be a relentless corporate espionage level campaign to take apple down and is succeeding somewhat.

Hoping for that 'new category' from Apple.
Kind of a crazy high bar to set for any company. Will they ever be free of that?
How many iTunes level 'software' successes would it take? Banking? Advertising algorithm? Geez.

 

I'm not saying Apple is discounting because they only make hardware.  I'm saying that Wall street feels that hardware can be easily copied and eventually comoditized which will hurt margins.  (I don't agree with this view since iOS and the Apple ecosystem are major parts why people choose Apple products and they have nothing to do with hardware).

 

Google is a one trick pony but they get a big PE because:

 

#1 - Wall Street views Google as a dominating player in search that cannot be easily copied

#2 - Google has been growing earnings (19% in Sept Qtr and 10% growth comparing last 4 Qtrs to previous year)

 

Now do I agree with these assessments? No.  But that's how Wall Street views it.  As far as Amazon I have no explanation for that except its a bubble that will pop eventually.

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post #86 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... and I don't agree with you.

You changed the entire argument to suit your purposes. Originally we were talking about business. You moved onto personal goals (which still follow what I am saying, imo)

Move on. You're not very convincing.

We're talking about simplistic terms here, not something that only exists in business. I gave you examples that might be more relatable to you. If you don't see how there are reoccurring daily, weekly, monthly or quarterly goals in business then there is no point in me making an analogy that involves business that you couldn't wrap your head around. It's how analogies work if they are to be successful.

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post #87 of 115
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post
This is BS stock manipulation.

 

No, it’s legitimate stock manipulation. :lol:

post #88 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by total View Post
 


why do you think YoY margins will be better? Manufacturing 5S with Touch ID is cheaper than 5 before year? sounds strange :)

 

in 2012 they were having alot of problems with manufactering the 5.  Now they pretty much mastered it.  Several components have also gone down in price.  Plus the ratio of 5S to total iPhones sold should be higher than the ration of 5 vs total iPhones sold in FY2013.

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post #89 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post
 

This is BS stock manipulation.

 

best thing is to take ADVANTAGE of the manipulation. 

 

If you bought 6 months ago at $420 you would have cleared 30%

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post #90 of 115
@pal @sog

You posted:

"Don't get me started on Amazon."


This is how your post looks to a visitor who is not logged in to AI




So, Apparently, AI got you started on Amazon.


and here's the raw link:


http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=9652589481f2c9e30f68cf5f19b3ef60&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.appleinsider.com%2Ft%2F161643%2Fapple-may-have-sold-upwards-of-60-million-iphones-over-holiday-quarter%2F80&v=1&exp=-1%3Ana%3A0&type=L&libId=d9b0685d-0565-4883-a562-726ee1d833cc&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2F&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fforums.appleinsider.com%2Ft%2F161643%2Fapple-may-have-sold-upwards-of-60-million-iphones-over-holiday-quarter%2F40&title=Apple%20may%20have%20sold%20upwards%20of%2060%20million%20iPhones%20over%20holiday%20quarter%20-%20Page%203&txt=%3Cspan%20id%3D%22yui_3_10_0_1_1390249373746_535%22%3EAmazon%3C%2Fspan%3E&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13902495141659


and the ad:




Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

@sog35

AAPL is discounted by the street because they are 'just a hardware maker' ??

So how come all those other companies that are only a '_' have a PE of 20 or 50 or more? Don't get me started on Amazon.

When will Wall Street be rational? (Never, I know)
So then, 15% growth = 15 PE. Maybe.

Maybe jealousy is a factor. Since apple is the company to beat and all.
There seems to be a relentless corporate espionage level campaign to take apple down and is succeeding somewhat.

Hoping for that 'new category' from Apple.
Kind of a crazy high bar to set for any company. Will they ever be free of that?
How many iTunes level 'software' successes would it take? Banking? Advertising algorithm? Geez.

Edited by Dick Applebaum - 1/20/14 at 12:43pm
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post #91 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

This is BS stock manipulation.
Amen to that. To those who say how could all those analysts be colluding: not necessary. All the big players (including analysts) know the game, they don't have to get together and put in writing any more than a shortstop needs to meet with the first baseman before throwing the ball. They all just react, knowing the average investor will be thrown out while they win the game.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #92 of 115
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post
This is how your post looks to a visitor who is not logged in to AI

 

That’s just depressing. Ad links on random words in the post like the cut-rate blog sites? Boy oh boy.

post #93 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

in 2012 they were having alot of problems with manufactering the 5.  Now they pretty much mastered it.  Several components have also gone down in price.  Plus the ratio of 5S to total iPhones sold should be higher than the ration of 5 vs total iPhones sold in FY2013.

 

That doesn't sound quite right if what you say about the 5c selling more units is correct. I know that you said the margins are most likely higher on the 5c than the 4s... but I really doubt that just because of the extra cost in development and retooling cost for the 5c.

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #94 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
This is how your post looks to a visitor who is not logged in to AI

That’s just depressing. Ad links on random words in the post like the cut-rate blog sites? Boy oh boy.

Yeah...

Repurposing a user's context...

I noticed that something was going on several weeks ago. I guess AI had some bugs in its content massaging algorithm -- Sometimes, when quoting another post, arbitrary content would be dropped or reformatted...

What can we do, except stop using AI...

As I said in a post referencing Google:

"Trust is like virginity -- once broken, never mended!"


So AI has joined the sleaze ranks of Google!
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #95 of 115

"Apple may have sold upwards of 60 million iPhones over holiday quarter"

 

Nothing in the headline is stated wrongly; unless the 'Administrator' was of the understanding that "upwards of" literally meant "up to but not exceeding." And if he had, we will probably never know.

 

Obviously, the author quoted Fortune's table to show what most analysts have forecasted for the last quarter. However, nowhere is there any direct reference towards the editor's headline.

 

It may be that the editor simply concluded that based on these analysists' current projections and their, historically, poor track record of doing so, that, "Apple [just] may have sold upwards or 60 million iPhones over [the] holiday quarter." Thus, his opinion only.

 

Of course, this may be just another example of, Yellow Journalism, which is not beyond the scope of what we read on-line every day.

post #96 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

That doesn't sound quite right if what you say about the 5c selling more units is correct. I know that you said the margins are most likely higher on the 5c than the 4s... but I really doubt that just because of the extra cost in development and retooling cost for the 5c.

 

I don't have the exact numbers but I remember reading that they estimated that 48% iPhones sold in Q1'2013 was 5 model.  They estimate the 5S sold about 55%.  I don't remember the exact % but it was significant.  And I can attest to this since I've hardly ever seen the 5C in public but I see a ton of 5S.

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post #97 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

I don't have the exact numbers but I remember reading that they estimated that 48% iPhones sold in Q1'2013 was 5 model.  They estimate the 5S sold about 55%.  I don't remember the exact % but it was significant.  And I can attest to this since I've hardly ever seen the 5C in public but I see a ton of 5S.

 

... and I'm not saying anything at this point.  :smokey:
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #98 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

"Apple may have sold upwards of 60 million iPhones over holiday quarter"

Nothing in the headline is stated wrongly; unless the 'Administrator' was of the understanding that "upwards of" literally meant "up to
 but not exceeding.
" And if he had, we will probably never know.


Obviously, the author quoted Fortune's table to show what most analysts have forecasted for the last quarter. However, nowhere is there any direct reference towards the editor's headline.

It may be that the editor simply concluded that based on these analysists' current projections and their, historically, poor track record of doing so, that, "Apple [just] may have sold upwards or 60 million iPhones over [the] holiday quarter." Thus, his opinion only.

Of course, this may be just another example of, Yellow Journalism, which is not beyond the scope of what we read on-line every day.

I see your point but we tend to like the statements in the body to match the headline so even a statement that the author thinks all the estimates are leaning to the conservative side would have sufficed, but as it stands it seemed to be only referring to the analyst numbers which I think should have resulted in "Apple may have sold upwards of 59 million iPhones over holiday quarter" as the most appropriate title.

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post #99 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting...

Something sneaky is going on at AI...

A comment you post to an AI forum, such as this, is parsed for "adwords" and links to advertisers are added to words such as 'iPhones' in the first quoted post (on page 1 of this forum).

The interesting part is that the user who is making the post does not see these links.

However, if you log out and read the forum posts as a visitor, you will see these adlinks.

What's going on???

If you sign out from AI and link to the post you should be able see the add links added to my content, by AI -- without my knowledge or approval...

What if I had posted a bit about one of my grand kids -- and AI, had added a link to a site that is offensive: adds, porn, religion, politics...

Wow, that's an interesting and slightly disturbing discovery. It appears they've signed up to this:

http://www.viglink.com/how-it-works

They are monetizing the text of forum members by converting phrases at random into paid referral links and these links are showing up for guests. I can understand the need to make money from the forum but it makes it look as though we've inserted the links.

I'm glad it only shows up for guests and it does label them as having been inserted by Viglink but still, I don't particularly like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 
best thing is to take ADVANTAGE of the manipulation.

If you bought 6 months ago at $420 you would have cleared 30%

Right, if you cleared 30% every 6 months and start out with say $5k, that would come close to $1m in 10 years (not quite with taxes but around that).

I don't think that's what is meant though. It's more a criticism that these opinions are not news about Apple, they are fabrications; be they guesses or manipulation, they are falsehoods. The media tries to give these people credibility by suggesting the estimates are well-informed but when they are way out, there's no consequences. It's all very well seeing the silver lining in a profit motive but that's exactly what the problem is with the stock market. Analysts sell their lies to the highest bidder and don't care about the consequences because there aren't any. Along the way, they damage genuine investors, businesses and the people who work there. If staff work hard and meet customer expectations but fall short on some arbitrary metric that is more important for profiteers then they put out as much negative press as they can about it and it erodes whatever value traders put on the company. People who genuinely care about the health of the company get tired of hearing profiteers tell everyone how valuable their input is. It's worthless because it didn't get the company to where it is now and it's not keeping it where it is.
post #100 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post


Wow, that's an interesting and slightly disturbing discovery. It appears they've signed up to this:

http://www.viglink.com/how-it-works

They are monetizing the text of forum members by converting phrases at random into paid referral links and these links are showing up for guests. I can understand the need to make money from the forum but it makes it look as though we've inserted the links.

I'm glad it only shows up for guests and it does label them as having been inserted by Viglink but still, I don't particularly like that.
Right, if you cleared 30% every 6 months and start out with say $5k, that would come close to $1m in 10 years (not quite with taxes but around that).

I don't think that's what is meant though. It's more a criticism that these opinions are not news about Apple, they are fabrications; be they guesses or manipulation, they are falsehoods. The media tries to give these people credibility by suggesting the estimates are well-informed but when they are way out, there's no consequences. It's all very well seeing the silver lining in a profit motive but that's exactly what the problem is with the stock market. Analysts sell their lies to the highest bidder and don't care about the consequences because there aren't any. Along the way, they damage genuine investors, businesses and the people who work there. If staff work hard and meet customer expectations but fall short on some arbitrary metric that is more important for profiteers then they put out as much negative press as they can about it and it erodes whatever value traders put on the company. People who genuinely care about the health of the company get tired of hearing profiteers tell everyone how valuable their input is. It's worthless because it didn't get the company to where it is now and it's not keeping it where it is.

 

I try to take advantage of manipulation as much as possible.  My whole stock buying strategy is to buy shares in companies that go down for stupid reasons.  Most of the time the dip is temporary and you can sell for a profit once the market figures out the lies or over reactions.  In this case I think there was an over reaction to Apples negative earnings growth in 2013. 

 

Another thing to keep in mind is Apple has bought back about 4% of their stock since Q1'13.  So even if their profit is the same as last year their EPS will be up 4% YoY.

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post #101 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I see your point but we tend to like the statements in the body to match the headline so even a statement that the author thinks all the estimates are leaning to the conservative side would have sufficed, but as it stands it seemed to be only referring to the analyst numbers which I think should have resulted in "Apple may have sold upwards of 59 million iPhones over holiday quarter" as the most appropriate title.

 

I too like that headlines reflect the body of the article. However, based on past writings here and every other blogging site, they most often do not. And that goes to the commentaries that accompany them. 

 

I personally would have liked the headline to have read, "Analysists forecast 50 to 60 million iPhones sold over holiday quarter! And you…?" Then we wouldn't have wasted our time reading the 'trashing' that followed. 

 

P.S. I forecast 60.8 million. But then, I didn't mind the original headline. And if it is anything less, well, there is a droid in every cloud.


Edited by Onhka - 1/20/14 at 1:52pm
post #102 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Interesting...

Something sneaky is going on at AI...

A comment you post to an AI forum, such as this, is parsed for "adwords" and links to advertisers are added to words such as 'iPhones' in the first quoted post (on page 1 of this forum).

The interesting part is that the user who is making the post does not see these links.

However, if you log out and read the forum posts as a visitor, you will see these adlinks.

What's going on???

If you sign out from AI and link to the post you should be able see the add links added to my content, by AI -- without my knowledge or approval...

What if I had posted a bit about one of my grand kids -- and AI, had added a link to a site that is offensive: adds, porn, religion, politics...

Wow, that's an interesting and slightly disturbing discovery. It appears they've signed up to this:

http://www.viglink.com/how-it-works

They are monetizing the text of forum members by converting phrases at random into paid referral links and these links are showing up for guests. I can understand the need to make money from the forum but it makes it look as though we've inserted the links.

I'm glad it only shows up for guests and it does label them as having been inserted by Viglink but still, I don't particularly like that.

Thanks for the link!

I'm unsure what I am going to do about this. I am especially upset that I, as a poster, was not aware or informed about this -- or have the opportunity to opt-in/out.

I enjoy the forums at AI more than any other site I have found. There are many interesting topics and a slew of intelligent, knowledgeable and reasoned posters. AI provides pretty good moderation of trolls and occasional rules violations. And, the humor -- life needs humor!

Where does this end? If I or you mention marijuana or birth control -- could they link to a blog or article that espouses a position that you disagree with?

I [mostly] select my wording very carefully -- yet someone/thing else can elide, amend or negate my words... without so much as a verbatim quote or citation...

How is this different from what Goebbels did?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 1/20/14 at 1:49pm
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Reply
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #103 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Thanks for the link!

I'm unsure what I am going to do about this. I am especially upset that I, as a poster, was not aware or informed about this -- or have the opportunity to opt-in/out.

I enjoy the forums at AI more than any other site I have found. There are many interesting topics and a slew of intelligent, knowledgeable and reasoned posters. AI provides pretty good moderation of trolls and occasional rules violations. And, the humor -- life needs humor!

Where does this end? If I or you mention marijuana or birth control -- could they link to a blog or article that espouses a position that you disagree with?

I [mostly] select my wording very carefully -- yet someone/thing else can elide, amend or negate my words... without so much as a verbatim quote or citation...

How is this different from what Goebbels did?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

We've really Godwined this one, huh?

First off this place needs revenue to keep going. Secondly nearly all forums I visit do this for non logged in users, it's been common on the web for years. You don't own your posts on this forum either, you are publishing on someone else's site. You can't force them to remove "your post" and they can use their, not your, content as they please. And lighten up, nobody thinks you are endorsing anything.
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post #104 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Yeah...

Repurposing a user's context...

I noticed that something was going on several weeks ago. I guess AI had some bugs in its content massaging algorithm -- Sometimes, when quoting another post, arbitrary content would be dropped or reformatted...

What can we do, except stop using AI...

As I said in a post referencing Google:

"Trust is like virginity -- once broken, never mended!"


So AI has joined the sleaze ranks of Google!

I noticed the same thing and wondered why members would link to a random Ebay page displaying iPads when the word iPad is referenced in a comment. Now it completely makes sense. Pretty sneaky. Good catch! 

You talkin' to me?
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You talkin' to me?
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post #105 of 115
And AAPL cut to hold this morning from some firm I've never heard up.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-cut-to-hold-at-socgen-over-phone-sale-fears-2014-01-21?siteid=yhoof2

What I don't get is they say they have concerns about 5C sales (claiming their research shows 5S outselling the 5C 4-1), yet they also say they expect iPhone ASP to be 4% lowest than prior year, because of 5C. So they're worried that the 5C isn't selling well, but then also worried that iPhone ASP will come in lower than last year because of 5C? That makes no sense to me. If the 5C isn't selling well wouldn't that mean a higher mix of 5S and thus higher ASP?
post #106 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

And AAPL cut to hold this morning from some firm I've never heard up.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apple-cut-to-hold-at-socgen-over-phone-sale-fears-2014-01-21?siteid=yhoof2

What I don't get is they say they have concerns about 5C sales (claiming their research shows 5S outselling the 5C 4-1), yet they also say they expect iPhone ASP to be 4% lowest than prior year, because of 5C. So they're worried that the 5C isn't selling well, but then also worried that iPhone ASP will come in lower than last year because of 5C? That makes no sense to me. If the 5C isn't selling well wouldn't that mean a higher mix of 5S and thus higher ASP?
Shhhh...they're analysts. They really have no clue.
post #107 of 115
Verizon just reported numbers and it's a good quarter. Didn't say in press release how many iPhone activations there were.
post #108 of 115

8.8 Mio smartphones => ~4 -5 Mio iphones judging by "market share"

 

http://newscenter.verizon.com/corporate/news-articles/2014/01-21-verizon-reports-2013-4q-earnings/

post #109 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortest Douche View Post

8.8 Mio smartphones => ~4 -5 Mio iphones judging by "market share"

http://newscenter.verizon.com/corporate/news-articles/2014/01-21-verizon-reports-2013-4q-earnings/
Hmm...q4 2012 was 6.2 million so that would be a YOY decline. But Apple stock is up over 1% this morning. Verizon started up pre-market is now down this morning.
post #110 of 115

You are right, it might be more than 5 mio, since the new models were just out; but it's hard to imagine a number bigger than 7 (from 8.8 activations). I assume AT&T will still have the biggest number of activations.

post #111 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortest Douche View Post

You are right, it might be more than 5 mio, since the new models were just out; but it's hard to imagine a number bigger than 7 (from 8.8 activations). I assume AT&T will still have the biggest number of activations.
I'm not questioning your guess...Verizon's total numbers were closer to 10 million Q4 last year. I can't imagine Apple's share is that might higher this year than last (if at all).
post #112 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I'm not questioning your guess...Verizon's total numbers were closer to 10 million Q4 last year. I can't imagine Apple's share is that might higher this year than last (if at all).


dont forget there was no T-mobile sales last year. 

Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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Apple Purchases last 12 months - iPhone 5S (two), iPhone 6, iPhone 6+ (two), iPadAir, iPadAir2, iPadMini2, AppleTV (two), MacMini, Airport Extreme, iPod Classic.
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post #113 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


dont forget there was no T-mobile sales last year. 
This is one reason I don't think Verizon can be used as a barometer. Plus the fact they don't provide iPhone sales figures anymore. AT&T doesn't either. So all we can do is take their total figure and apply a historical percentage to it. Not sure how accurate that is. I guess the Verizon number couldn't be that bad as Apple stock is up today.
post #114 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by strask View Post
 

No, it is not sensible, not if the headline uses the phrase "upwards of." Upwards of means more than. If they had said "almost" then the number would have been sensible. But for an article that states that analysts' predictions range from 50-58 million, the headline "upwards of 60 million" is not reasonable.  

 

Touché.  You are correct.  As the Macalope is always writing, "words have meanings". I was vague on the precise denotation of this one.  Nevertheless, it is important to note the headline also said "may have sold".  I think that qualifier is adequate for the subsequent "upwards of" statement.

post #115 of 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 

 

Touché.  You are correct.  As the Macalope is always writing, "words have meanings". I was vague on the precise denotation of this one.  Nevertheless, it is important to note the headline also said "may have sold".  I think that qualifier is adequate for the subsequent "upwards of" statement.

I noticed the word "may." I thought about it in this context but the moment they say upwards of "may" loses all meaning. They could have said "may have sold almost" but they did produce an article that utterly refutes the headline.  I am starting to think English is not the primary language of the editorial staff here.

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