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Apple offers Samsung patent settlement deal tied to anti-cloning provision - Page 3

post #81 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

You don't appear to have conceded post 73 either.

Unless of course, you do believe a phone that constantly sacrifices display for input method is 'smart'.

So now you believe it was good for other smartphones to become touchscreen? Make up your mind.
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post #82 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Do we have any documentation confirming a 'crisis of design' (or something similar) from the head of their mobile division, or did they just copy it?

Had Motorola sued them it might have been produced then too. It was only revealed to Apple via discovery.
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #83 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Easy, Sammy did not introduce any evidence that they had a 132 page slide deck on the blackberry and countless other designs they stole.

Ahh so there could've been a 'crisis in design' over at Samsung when keyboard designs first came out. Thanks for affirming that for me.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #84 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Do we have any documentation confirming a 'crisis of design' (or something similar) from the head of their mobile division, or did they just copy it?

There's no documentation either for or against, but you're the one making the claim for against.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #85 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Ahh so there could've been a 'crisis in design' over at Samsung when keyboard designs first came out. Thanks for affirming that for me.

How so. Sammy probably just copied and pasted. And didn't compare and contrast like they did with the iPhone.

Simply copying does not mean "crisis in design".
post #86 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

How so. Sammy probably just copied and pasted. And didn't compare and contrast like they did with the iPhone.

Simply copying does not mean "crisis in design".

I'm not saying that it was, but nobody can positively claim that it wasn’t either. None of us work for Samsung and we can only know for sure what caused a 'crisis in design' by what they've said in public.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #87 of 109
Since we're on the subject of copying China is developing their own OS, better than either iOS or Android... kinda. Now testing on China Mobile.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/china-builds-own-phone-os-aims-to-be-more-secure-than-android-or-iphone/
melior diabolus quem scies
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post #88 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

There's no documentation either for or against, but you're the one making the claim for against.

And you're saying I need to prove my original point, is that correct?
post #89 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

And you're saying I need to prove my original point, is that correct?

I didn't think "you know this how?" was a difficult question.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #90 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I didn't think "you know this how?" was a difficult question.

 

Why do I need to prove it?

post #91 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Why do I need to prove it?

You don't need to prove anything, and you also don't need to make baseless claims.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #92 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

You don't need to prove anything, and you also don't need to make baseless claims.

 

Let me know when you're in the 'In Charge Of the Internet' committee and I'll get back to you.

post #93 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Let me know when you're in the 'In Charge Of the Internet' committee and I'll get back to you.

Tallest Skil vetoed my appointment. lol.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #94 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

FWIW the Motorola Razr probably caused a crisis in design too. Sammy came up with the Sync clone. Then the Moto Q may have caused yet another. Yup, Sammy rushed out the Blackjack.. It's nothing new nor is it unexpected that they'd find more inspiration in the iPhone. Personally I'm surprised if Apple didn't anticipate it considering past history.

Yawn....
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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post #95 of 109
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
Tallest Skil vetoed my appointment. lol.gif

 

You wrote “OK” where it said “Please do not write below this line.” 

I had no choice.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #96 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

If you already knew the iPhone caused a crisis of design at Samsung then why did you make post 77?

You said none of those phones ever caused a crisis in design? I asked you how did you know that. We're all aware of what was said regarding the iPhone, so where did you read anything regarding any other phone?

At this point, you're just rambling.

Call it a day.
post #97 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

FWIW the Motorola Razr probably caused a crisis in design too. Sammy came up with the Sync clone. Then the Moto Q may have caused yet another. Yup, Sammy rushed out the Blackjack.. It's nothing new nor is it unexpected that they'd find more inspiration in the iPhone. Personally I'm surprised if Apple didn't anticipate it considering past history.

You are aware of the statements that Steve Jobs made the day that the iPhone was introduced? Now, Steve's statements that day may not be entirely accurate, but Apple did anticipate that the iPhone might be copied; hence the large number of patents being mentioned. What's interesting is that Samsung figured out pretty quickly that there was a new smart phone paradigm; most of the others including MS, Blackberry and Nokia were very slow to respond.

post #98 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


I'm not saying that it was, but nobody can positively claim that it wasn’t either. None of us work for Samsung and we can only know for sure what caused a 'crisis in design' by what they've said in public.

The way the system works is that people make statements on the forums, and then other people find arguments to disprove them. Since you can't disprove the statement of either GTR or jungmark wrt Samsung's legally determined copying elements of the iPhone, the aforementioned "crisis", then what you are doing is speculating, without evidence or facts, that Samsung might have copied on earlier occasions from other phone builders.

 

Here's another example of speculation:

 

"Apple couldn't have developed the iPhone as it did without outside help as Apple had no experience with building a phone of any kind."

"I surmise that Apple had help from advanced being from the future, though it might have been aliens."

 

I suspect that is what the CEO's of Blackberry really thought of the newly introduced iPhone, but it's speculation as I have no facts to prove it.

post #99 of 109

I wish you guys didn't reply to dasanman69 and GatorGuy. No point in putting these guys on Ignore lists if you can still see their comments!

 

I finally got sick of StuckPaper and threw him into my Ignore list as well.

post #100 of 109

Why would Samsung agree to this settlement? They made tens of billions with the galaxy S line and were fined only little less than1 Billion (final amount still to be determined). It would just be bad business.

post #101 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post

The way the system works is that people make statements on the forums, and then other people find arguments to disprove them. Since you can't disprove the statement of either GTR or jungmark wrt Samsung's legally determined copying elements of the iPhone, the aforementioned "crisis", then what you are doing is speculating, without evidence or facts, that Samsung might have copied on earlier occasions from other phone builders.

Here's another example of speculation:

"Apple couldn't have developed the iPhone as it did without outside help as Apple had no experience with building a phone of any kind."
"I surmise that Apple had help from advanced being from the future, though it might have been aliens."

I suspect that is what the CEO's of Blackberry really thought of the newly introduced iPhone, but it's speculation as I have no facts to prove it.

I'm not the one speculating, they are. Just about everyone here has asked another poster for proof on something they've written, therefore the burden of proof falls on them, but since the comment is pro Apple it goes unchallenged by most here, and honor and integrity goes out the door. It's all just faulty logic postulated on imperfect data collection.
Edited by dasanman69 - 1/21/14 at 5:52am
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #102 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Since we're on the subject of copying China is developing their own OS, better than either iOS or Android... kinda. Now testing on China Mobile.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/china-builds-own-phone-os-aims-to-be-more-secure-than-android-or-iphone/

Everyone is getting into the game...
http://www.naturalnews.com/043568_secure_smartphone_Swiss_companies_government_surveillance.html
Of course they will never get back their ultra secretive banking system, so why not.
post #103 of 109
Originally Posted by Shortest Douche
[post]

 

I guess you forgot that you’re breaking the law right now and that you’ve just given us your IP address.

 

Seems like the action of someone with mental difficulties.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #104 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Since we're on the subject of copying China is developing their own OS, better than either iOS or Android... kinda. Now testing on China Mobile.
http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/china-builds-own-phone-os-aims-to-be-more-secure-than-android-or-iphone/
"Kinda" is one way to put it. More secure certainly does not equal better. It just means more secure. And just because a claim of more secure is made does not mean it is true either. Everyone wants to have the best most secure and easiest to use phone OS. iOS has set the bar fairly high for most of that, and it will be seen if this or any following efforts clear that bar or not. Security can always be improved, but the only way to truly ensure security is to compromise user experience, it is a balancing act. If anyone disagrees on this point they truly do not understand what security is and what needs to be done to ensure it.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #105 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

 

The only trolly part of that post was your response. If you go on to read the thread you'll find I prove that I'm right unequivocally citing judgements explicitly.

 

 

Hardly the actions of a troll.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Order handed down. Apple complied fully. Judge said, “No, do it again.” Apple protested, rightly, having already done it. Judge threatened fines for complying fully with the ruling. Apple forced to change.

 

Every report on the lawsuit says this.

 

Am I confused that once a ruling is decided upon it cannot magically be changed at a whim, much less after it has already been carried out? I doubt it.

 

Not a single claim made was incorrect.

 

Prove it. This didn’t happen, by the way. They explicitly said they lost the British case.

 

No… the notice was part of the ruling.

 

Which is why it’s so confusing that you would get it THIS wrong.

Credit where credit is due.

 

I did read all the way to the end, which I am likely to do if there is hearty and intelligence conversation / discourse. I have flagged my OS to not "react" without further data points in the future.

 

MJC

post #106 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortest Douche View Post
 

Why would Samsung agree to this settlement? They made tens of billions with the galaxy S line and were fined only little less than1 Billion (final amount still to be determined). It would just be bad business.

The Court required an attempt at settlement. If settlement is not possible, then the court can then step in and create a solution. That solution may not be amenable to Samsung, such as further injunctions.

 

Oh you say, but injunctions against obsolete products do nothing to Samsung's bottom line.

 

The problem for Samsung is that Apple is quite prepared to bring new IP infringement against Samsung, and the court may then find that Samsung's inability to settle previously cause for immediate injunctions against current and future product sales in the U.S. to provide relief for Apple's infringement claims against a unwilling party. 

 

That has teeth, and that is the end goal that Apple has been moving; injunctions that provide incentives to Samsung to stop infringement.

post #107 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmay View Post
 

The Court required an attempt at settlement. If settlement is not possible, then the court can then step in and create a solution. That solution may not be amenable to Samsung, such as further injunctions.

 

Oh you say, but injunctions against obsolete products do nothing to Samsung's bottom line.

 

The problem for Samsung is that Apple is quite prepared to bring new IP infringement against Samsung, and the court may then find that Samsung's inability to settle previously cause for immediate injunctions against current and future product sales in the U.S. to provide relief for Apple's infringement claims against a unwilling party.

 

That has teeth, and that is the end goal that Apple has been moving; injunctions that provide incentives to Samsung to stop infringement.

Don't get me wrong; I actually despite samsung ethics. But they proved one can just copy/steal in this industry and get away with it. 1 Billion is nothing compare to the money they made. These battles will last for years. Enough time for them to develop their own IP.

post #108 of 109

My point is that they aren't/won't get away with it in the long run; their will be a cost. Your point is that it is still very profitable for them to do this. I agree; for now.

 

But IP isn't in stasis, and if Apple and others aren't able to protect legitimate IP now and in the future, then most likely there will be legislative intervention that will make it more difficult for IP infringers to profit, i.e., injunctions at lower thresholds and more timely.

 

One should note that Samsung is even more vulnerable to commoditization and a race to the bottom than Apple is, and many of those low end Android OEM's will be just as happy to infringe Samsung's IP.

 

Will this ultimately be Samsung's fate; to be copied by large Chinese OEM's?

Probably.

post #109 of 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

That's some first post. Now we have to figure out who paid you.

Seems like he's being paid per word, and extra if he included "I'm no fanboi"
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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