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Nest's Fadell backtracks on data privacy, will be transparent about future changes - Page 3

post #81 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

"Opt in" is fine.

But that too could change... to "opt out" or "no choice."

 

Actually, Google is so ethical that its policy whenever it offers a new service, is automatically "opt in" not "opt out".  But unfortunately, in Google doublespeak, that means you "automatically opt in" for the service.  They're just real bastards.

post #82 of 134
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
So much for the digital age.

 

 

So you don’t think it’s possible for an ad to not collect data? :no:

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #83 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

 

It's not like I'm saying you shouldn't have a choice. Just saying that I don't understand why it's supposed to be creepy. Google knows where I live (because they bill me). They know my music taste, they know where I tend to hangout. They also have a rough idea of my friends.

 

 

Google occupies the same place in my life as a random, not particularly close friend would. I don't even use Gmail for my email so to me it's like having a friend who has more computing capacity than God :)

so Google is behaving like a stalker…why would I be creeped out by that. Silly me.

post #84 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
 

so Google is behaving like a stalker…why would I be creeped out by that. Silly me.


If you consider your friends to be stalkers because they know things about you, then I don't know what to reply.

 

 

I don't think someone who knows my address is a stalker, especially not when they provide me with material benefits for no charge.

post #85 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


So you don’t think it’s possible for an ad to not collect data? 1oyvey.gif

It was much simpler when print a big source of our information. A company like Apple advertised in computer magazines and in major newspapers, so it was easy to target a certain demographic. Now we're mostly anonymous, so how does a company reach potential customers? Data collection has been going on forever, I remember magazines having surveys for one to fill out. I don't particularly like all the data that's being collected but I can see how it could be very beneficial for a small business.
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post #86 of 134
I hope google will lower the price. I want one, but not for $250. It should be more like $80-$125 range. Not sure why anyone would care if Google knows when people are home or not. It's not like they would sell the info to house theives. It may be creepy how much data google has but credit card companies are worse. Banks know everything you purchase, how much you make, how much you save, etc. And they sell your info to others.
post #87 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

I hope google will lower the price. I want one, but not for $250. It should be more like $80-$125 range. Not sure why anyone would care if Google knows when people are home or not. It's not like they would sell the info to house theives. It may be creepy how much data google has but credit card companies are worse. Banks know everything you purchase, how much you make, how much you save, etc. And they sell your info to others.

 

I can see positive upsides to Google collecting data too. Weather reports are typically based off fairly sparse meteo stations. Imagine if Google could accurately predict that your house was going to be 2.3°C warmer in the next couple of days because of a heat front they tracked moving across the US. Imagine if they adjust your heating for you to save you money and keep you comfortable.

 

I think I'd be happy with that sort of functionality whoever had the data. It's not like they're going to be able to maliciously use "He's normally home most of the time and goes to the shops in the evenings".

post #88 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirozha View Post

I'm not a fan of the way Google has been acting since 2008, but Google is still one of the best (if not the best) company to work for. Back in 2006 when I interviewed with them in Mountain View, I personally witnessed the perks that their employees were getting, and that was amazing.

Seduced, LOL.

Not to mention that shameful self-promoting movie starring Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson.

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post #89 of 134
"I'm less biased" is the new troll meme. It usually means you're blind to your biases, and define a pro-Google stance as "neutral".

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post #90 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Seduced, LOL.

Not to mention that shameful self-promoting movie starring Vince Vaughn and Owen Wilson.

Oh god I had managed to put that thing out of my mind. I never saw the full thing, only the trailer, and it made me want to throw something through my TV. Whoever agreed to that at Google needs to have their tastes examined.

post #91 of 134

Hey, just a heads-up here folks: yesterday I posted in this thread, my first post in this forum for over a year. This morning I received this obvious phishing scam in a email. "Obvious" because the email address they used was the one I registered to this forum, not the one I have registered to my Apple account. Beware of lame (google white-knighting?) phishing scams...

 

post #92 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post
 

so Google is behaving like a stalker…why would I be creeped out by that. Silly me.

 

To be fair, iPhones know where the user is, and Apple collects location information so they can improve advertising. Those words are in the Privacy Policy. When you go home, Apple knows you're there, unless you're turning off Location Services on your phone and not opting in for usage with any Apple devices connected to the Internet.

post #93 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by waterrockets View Post

... -- Apple's privacy statement clearly says that they use your personal information to develop and deliver advertising. Nothing new there. ...

You are lying. Apple collects data for its own advertising not that of others, and you can opt out in most cases.
All is the same wont work, it simply isn't the case.
post #94 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post


You are lying. Apple collects data for its own advertising not that of others, and you can opt out in most cases.
All is the same wont work, it simply isn't the case.

I'm not sure he's saying what you think he was saying. I read it as 'Apple uses your data to develop its own advertising service, just like Google et al'.

 

What's incorrect about that?

post #95 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post


You are lying. Apple collects data for its own advertising not that of others, and you can opt out in most cases.
All is the same wont work, it simply isn't the case.

 

Read the policy: http://www.apple.com/privacy/

 

"Apple and its affiliates may share this personal information with each other and use it consistent with this Privacy Policy. They may also combine it with other information to provide and improve our products, services, content, and advertising."

 

Granted, connecting "our" to just "products" or the full list is ambiguous. Which way that goes in your head may lead us all to understand how deluded you might be.

 

Well, this clears that one up, actually:

"Apple and its partners use cookies and other technologies in mobile advertising services to control the number of times you see a given ad, deliver ads that relate to your interests, and measure the effectiveness of ad campaigns."


Edited by waterrockets - 1/21/14 at 12:27pm
post #96 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

Actually, Google is so ethical that its policy whenever it offers a new service, is automatically "opt in" not "opt out".  But unfortunately, in Google doublespeak, that means you "automatically opt in" for the service.  They're just real bastards.

What's the default setting on your iPhone for receiving iAds based on the data Apple has collected about you?
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post #97 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


What's the default setting on your iPhone for receiving iAds based on the data Apple has collected about you?

You are really going to equate Apple feeding you iAds to Google's action of unilaterally linking up your Google+ identity with your Gmail account?

post #98 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post

You are really going to equate Apple feeding you iAds to Google's action of unilaterally linking up your Google+ identity with your Gmail account?

Nope. You were commenting on a default opt-in as being unethical, and the company doing so "bastards".
Edited by Gatorguy - 1/21/14 at 1:25pm
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post #99 of 134
Wanted to get a Nest to replace my current programmable thermostat. Took pictures of the wiring and only had one more wire (OD?) to figure out before putting in my Nest order. Now that Google bought Nest, I'm sticking with my old fahioned programmable thermostat. Yes, it's clunkier than the Nest and doesn't have as many whiz-bang features, but it works.

This is the 4th(?) article I've read about privacy concerns over the Nest acquisition (here, The Verge, CNN, NBC News), so it isn't just Apple fanpeeps groaning about this purchase.
post #100 of 134

I always love a reason to hate Google more.

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post #101 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post


If you consider your friends to be stalkers because they know things about you, then I don't know what to reply.


I don't think someone who knows my address is a stalker, especially not when they provide me with material benefits for no charge.

My friends don't sniff around my phone or computer. I give them information when I want to. There is no All or Nothing with them.
post #102 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


My friends don't sniff around my phone or computer. I give them information when I want to. There is no All or Nothing with them.


Sure, but I choose what to share with Google too. I'm fine with location so they can help me get around quickly. I turn off 'search history' and youtube's 'view history'.

 

Seems relatively analogous.

post #103 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Nope. You were commenting on a default opt-in as being unethical, and the company doing so "bastards".

There are default opt-ins pretty much everywhere you go.  Some are benign others not so benign and still some others clearly crossing the line.  If you're going to assert the absurd notion that all default opt ins are the same then here's where I stop arguing against sophistry.

post #104 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by StruckPaper View Post
 

I think your point is valid up to an extent. Apple, through its stores, does a really good job of supporting its customers when it comes to hardware products. However, their customer support sucks BIG TIME when it comes to their services. Apple geniuses are no help when Mail or iCloud have issues. I don't pretend that Google's customer support for their services is better. But Google is much better in its deployment of services. Gmail, Google Maps and Google Drive all are superior offerings to Apple counterparts for now.

 

Google's services have been around far longer so it's only natural that they're more mature. And there's no question that this is Google's area of strength, weakened mainly by 1) disregard for their users' privacy and 2) a blasé attitude towards killing off services may customers depend on when they no longer suit their business strategy.

 

Back to the quality of services issue, it's interesting to note how much criticism Apple received with their 1.0 Maps launch (melting bridges, etc.,) yet when Google later added similar 3D views they also suffered from the same artifacts yet received little scorn from the tech press.

post #105 of 134

How did you get them to pixelate your plate and ask them to pixelate your house if you did not tell them your address?

post #106 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcomeau View Post
 

How did you get them to pixelate your plate and ask them to pixelate your house if you did not tell them your address?

When moving through Google Maps Street View, there is a button at the bottom to "report a problem. When you click on that, the image that you are looking at (the car) is contained in the correspondence sent to Google. I did not provide an address, & assume the GPS coordinates in the page/image are captured (IP address, computer system, mac address?).

 

The approx. 1000' condo driveway is posted, "Private Property - No Trespassing" at each end. The expectation of privacy is just short of a guarded gate. The Google vehicle driver had to disregard & drive past the posted sign & enter the driveway, allowing his/her equipment to record photos of peoples homes & their wifi data, from the PRIVATE DRIVEWAY, as it slowly drove the entire length of the complex. My request was to remove the entire footage recorded from the PRIVATE PROPERTY. Google did not. Most burglars have to case their victims'  properties in person to assess & find any weak points where the can break in....or just cruise the area on Google Maps. I certainly don't want to provide Google patterns of when I am home or away as I no longer trust them to do the right thing.

post #107 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellya74u View Post
 

When moving through Google Maps Street View, there is a button at the bottom to "report a problem. When you click on that, the image that you are looking at (the car) is contained in the correspondence sent to Google. I did not provide an address, & assume the GPS coordinates in the page/image are captured (IP address, computer system, mac address?).

 

The approx. 1000' condo driveway is posted, "Private Property - No Trespassing" at each end. The expectation of privacy is just short of a guarded gate. The Google vehicle driver had to disregard & drive past the posted sign & enter the driveway, allowing his/her equipment to record photos of peoples homes & their wifi data, from the PRIVATE DRIVEWAY, as it slowly drove the entire length of the complex. My request was to remove the entire footage recorded from the PRIVATE PROPERTY. Google did not. Most burglars have to case their victims'  properties in person to assess & find any weak points where the can break in....or just cruise the area on Google Maps. I certainly don't want to provide Google patterns of when I am home or away as I no longer trust them to do the right thing.

I see. I appreciate the extra info. We are indeed heading into uncharted territory...

post #108 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundvision View Post
 

You know, Google if they really wanted to probably already knows when I am home or not. I use their email for my business, I use Google to search for things as well. They can easily see that a majority of my day I am operating between two IP addresses, work and home. Do you know who else can tell if I am home? Anybody who is willing to drive by my house and see if my car is parked there.

 

Color me crazy, but I'm not worried about if Google knows if I am home or not. As we become more connected with technology throughout our lives, the more this issue will come up. I would easily say I'm a Google and Apple fan. I'm not an Android fan, but I enjoy using Google search, Google Maps, Google Apps for Business, and their other services. Maybe I should be more worried than I am, but for now it's not a huge concern to me.

 

 

Wait until Google starts sending holographic advertising images into your living room when you're lounging around, personalized ads that mention what you're wearing and what you had for dinner, and offers to deliver your daughter's favorite ice cream flavor in 15 minutes. Then tell me you're not worried.

post #109 of 134
Apple will be all over buying holographic living room ads. They'll be cool, too.
post #110 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post
 

 

Wait until Google starts sending holographic advertising images into your living room when you're lounging around, personalized ads that mention what you're wearing and what you had for dinner, and offers to deliver your daughter's favorite ice cream flavor in 15 minutes. Then tell me you're not worried.

If Google offers to deliver my favorite ice cream, it will because I made the choice to do so. Just like I can opt to unplug my Nest at anytime if I feel Google is taking the company in a direction I don't like.

 

I do live your creativity though. Your paranoia and creativity make for an interesting glimpse of what the future could be like.

post #111 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post
 

 

Wait until Google starts sending holographic advertising images into your living room when you're lounging around, personalized ads that mention what you're wearing and what you had for dinner, and offers to deliver your daughter's favorite ice cream flavor in 15 minutes. Then tell me you're not worried.


Worried? Ice cream in 15 minutes? That sounds more like a pretty nice service to me.

 

Seriously though, why would this worry you? I mean the whole holographic personal ads thing is a bit ridiculous but the point of advertising is to match you with things you actually want, and Google does a surprisingly impressive job at it.

post #112 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

 

Could you be any more hyperbolic? This whole thread is predicated on the idea that Google sells information to advertisers.

 

They don't do that. Enough said. This entire thread is subsequently nonsense.

 

All you have to do is google "google sells information to advertisers"  and you get 556 MILLION results, numerous of which show examples where Google sells your information without your permission to advertisers.

 

Google itself stated "We’ve found that the more information we can share with advertisers, the more confident they’ll be advertising on Google."

 

The New York Times reported that Google sells user's endorsements.

 

The Verge reported "Google will start using your pictur to sell products to friends..."

 

BGR reported "Google selling user review to advertisers."

 

Translationmusings reported in 2008: "I don't know about you, but it bothers me that information brokers like Schober and advertisers can buy my information from Google and Gmail."

 

etc. etc.

 

This thread is serious.

 

How do you think Google personalizes its ads so that you are enticed to click?

 

Google's job is to gather as much data about you, the consumer so that it can sell that data to advertisers so that ads are more effectively targeting you, so that advertisers will pay more for ads on Google than other businesses like Apple who also sell ads.

 

If Google can put a monitor inside your home it would dearly love to do so.  If it can monitor your speech it would dearly love to do so - particularly if you voluntarily placed it there.

post #113 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskatt2 View Post

All you have to do is google "google sells information to advertisers"  and you get 556 MILLION results

Search Apple sells information to advertisers. So what does the 700M+ results prove?
Edited by Gatorguy - 1/23/14 at 8:06am
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post #114 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Search Apple sells information to advertisers. So what does the 700M+ results prove?

 

I searched "Google makes car that flies to moon" and got 170 million results!

 

Seriously though, the poster was just quoting without even checking. For example the 'uses your picture' news is when you recommend something to your friends. It's mostly just FUD.

 

A poster the other day posted some actually worrying links about Google but after going through them most of them were ridiculously hyperbolic. The idea that Google would just sell the very information that powers their company is silly. They sell the results of computing based on that information. That's not anywhere near as scary as an information broker like most credit card companies.

post #115 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

 

Is this supposed to be creepy? That you are told a product exists to save you 4% without any personally identifiable information being passed along? I think that's frankly very impressive and amazing. If Google do truly get to the level that they can calculate your heating efficiency and improve it? That's a great thing. Why would it be bad?!

Because who wants targeted advertising in their hallway? That is creepy.

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post #116 of 134
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Originally Posted by techno View Post
 

Because who wants targeted advertising in their hallway? That is creepy.


Is it? I mean if it was something constantly making noise or flashing yeah that's annoying, but I wouldn't call it creepy. If it just displayed an icon to indicate there was a notification then it might be annoying but might not, and isn't creepy at all to me. I guess I just don't understand why it would be weird, do you get creeped out when a website has banner ads?

post #117 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Search Apple sells information to advertisers. So what does the 700M+ results prove?

It's funny, but no one stops to think how junk mail arrives at their home. The selling of information has been going on for decades. It's nothing new. How preapproved credit card offers does one get? My mother turned a certain age, and all of a sudden there were AARP applications mailed to her. Banks sell information, insurance companies sell information, the government, so on and so forth.
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post #118 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It's funny, but no one stops to think how junk mail arrives at their home. The selling of information has been going on for decades. It's nothing new. How preapproved credit card offers does one get? My mother turned a certain age, and all of a sudden there were AARP applications mailed to her. Banks sell information, insurance companies sell information, the government, so on and so forth.

Is that suppose to help? I hate that too and I also think that should be an opt- in as well.
post #119 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Is that suppose to help? I hate that too and I also think that should be an opt- in as well.

It's not supposed to help, but there should be equal outrage to the others that do it. Of course we all hate it, but the reality is that our information was being sold long before we sat in front of a computer and typed in 'Google' for the first time.
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post #120 of 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It's not supposed to help, but there should be equal outrage to the others that do it. Of course we all hate it, but the reality is that our information was being sold long before we sat in front of a computer and typed in 'Google' for the first time.

Yes but they have less info on me. Googs has search history, email, friends, location, etc.
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