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post #41 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post
 

I'm not aware of any phones with a drive.    Memory and Storage is the same in a phone, no?

 

Not really.

In 'old' PC terms 'Memory' usually referred to your RAM and 'Storage' typically referred to your hard drive.

 

Hard drives are a (slowly) dying entity, but your phone does still have a distinction between the types of memory it uses.

Storage 'memory' (usually flash-ram) is much cheaper and slower than the actual memory used by the CPU(s) to run applications.

 

iPhones actual 'Memory' on both the 5s and 5c is 1 Gigabyte

Android phones vary with the high end phones having around 3 Gigabytes

 

If you go over 4gig in RAM, you need to be a 64 bit operating system or you'll need to clock cycles for one memory access which is shooting yourself in the foot.

Just because you have less than 4gig of RAM, however, does not make having a 64 bit system unnecessary.

 

The flash memory that is usually called 'storage' on a phone (and what this article is mostly about) is the cheaper stuff you use for storage and is usually what is referenced if you are buying a '16 gig' or '32 gig' phone.

 

Apple's 16 gig phone and Samsungs both have 16 gig of flash memory.

Samsung loads a lot more stuff on theirs, so what is left to the user is a lot less than what is on a phone with fewer stuff added.

 

Since few people will use all of the stuff added it is commonly called bloat.

 

Apple doesn't give many options beyond what they offer-with their assumption being they know what their users want.

Android does offer more flexibility.  If available storage was actually a big deal to you, you could either add an SD card as the article mentions, or buy the S4 which comes in a 'Nexus' edition and has all the bloat removed and probably has comparable or more free memory than the iPhone 5s (like the Nexus 5 does).  But then you lose some of the features added by the 'bloat' which really are pretty impressive when you look at them.

post #42 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

Huh? I don't understand what the usage of ext4 filesystem helped anything about the hurdle of managing files between multiple volumes on a devices without a file manager interface. 


I believe there is a file manager interface, but yeah most Android phones seem to have abandoned the split storage option. Without rooting or doing anything special most phones can read USB pen drives and the like so that is a pretty good solution for storing big films and similar if you are away from a big screen for a while.

post #43 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
 

Memory = RAM

Storage = Drive space

 

The article wrongly uses these terms interchangeably, something I might expect my wife's Uncle Charlie to do, but not a tech site.

That's not really accurate. It's an informal convention you're referring to. We often say 'memory' when we mean primary storage, and we just as frequently use 'drive' when we mean secondary storage, because of the physical implementations we became familiar with as computers gained traction modern culture.

 

Memory is storage. "Memory" and "storage" can be used interchangeably when used properly. We typically (and informally]) use "memory" to refer specifically to a computers primary storage space, but this is not an absolute definition, as it's just as correct to call secondary storage device an external memory device.

 

RAM is an acronym for "Random Access Memory", which simply declares a particular characteristic of the memory [storage] in question. A delay line is most certainly not random access, but was in use as primary storage (or memory) in computers over half a century ago (look up UNIVAC for an example - I think).

 

"Drive" is also frequently misused, as it most accurately describes the access control mechanism with which the data contained in/on a piece of storage media is read or written (for a basic example, consider: a floppy 'drive' has zero storage space without a disk in it).

 

The solid state semiconductor "drive" [secondary storage] used in the iPhone is composed of what are usually described as memory cells. In fact it is physically much more similar to the volatile RAM used in contemporary computers, than it is to the magnetic disk media it serves to replace. So really, "memory" is an apt name/descriptor for the physical storage device described as well.

 

/pedantic

;)

 

(Anyone feel free to correct me anywhere I've goofed.)

post #44 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 


I believe there is a file manager interface, but yeah most Android phones seem to have abandoned the split storage option. Without rooting or doing anything special most phones can read USB pen drives and the like so that is a pretty good solution for storing big films and similar if you are away from a big screen for a while.

 

I think most people wants things to be simpler, but I do also recognize how file managing is an important aspect of desktop computing that mobile computing wants to get rid of.  As a long time Mac OS users, I'm accustomed to browse my HD and install or launch apps from the file manager.  But most windows users have never opened their Program Files directory or even browse their C: drive. I think this is why Apple, Google and Microsoft chooses to not lets people manually manage files on their mobiles devices. 

post #45 of 84
Originally Posted by RonMG View Post
Constable Odo is an idiot whether he's posting on AI or TMO. Pathetic. Just go away, Constable Moron!!

 

Have you ever heard of Poe’s Law? It says that, without context, the writing of fanaticism cannot be distinguished from that of parody.

 

He’s parodying the insane few who actually believe the things written there. He doesn’t himself.

 

We’re pretty sure, at least. :p He might have stock and be upset at the fall, but other than that it’s all parody.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #46 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

Huh? I don't understand what the usage of ext4 filesystem helped anything about the hurdle of managing files between multiple volumes on a devices without a file manager interface. 

 

"Hurdle"? "without a file manager interface"?    The first is an exaggeration, the second is just plain incorrect.

post #47 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post
 

 

The solid state semiconductor "drive" [secondary storage] used in the iPhone is composed of what are usually described as memory cells. In fact it is physically much more similar to the volatile RAM used in contemporary computers, than it is to the magnetic disk media it serves to replace. So really, "memory" is an apt name/descriptor for the physical storage device described as well.

 

(Anyone feel free to correct me anywhere I've goofed.)

 

The solid state drive you refer to, may use memory cell storage but these cells are not addressed in the same way as RAM. The interface that communicates with storage memory is file system block/sector based, not direct addressable, therefore these types of memories are much more akin to traditional HDD than RAM.

post #48 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

"Hurdle"? "without a file manager interface"?    The first is an exaggeration, the second is just plain incorrect.

 
I won't argue on the first because is like a taste issue, keep in mind most smartphone user are common people who don't know anything about what is installed on their devices.  
 
But the I still maintain the second:  Android doesn't have a built-in user interface for managing the filesystem, I agree third party solution are available like on any other mobile platform.  Rooting the phone for accessing the filesystem is something most people can't or won't do. 
post #49 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
But the I still maintain the second:  Android doesn't have a built-in user interface for managing the filesystem, I agree third party solution are available like on any other mobile platform.  Rooting the phone for accessing the filesystem is something most people can't or won't do. 

I think you're confused. If you want to install a file manager, it's just an app, you don't need root.

post #50 of 84
And if you couldn't double the S4's available memory in about two minutes for 15 bucks, all of this might mean something. Wanna double an iPhones storage space? Have fun with that.
post #51 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

I think most people wants things to be simpler, but I do also recognize how file managing is an important aspect of desktop computing that mobile computing wants to get rid of.  As a long time Mac OS users, I'm accustomed to browse my HD and install or launch apps from the file manager.  But most windows users have never opened their Program Files directory or even browse their C: drive. I think this is why Apple, Google and Microsoft chooses to not lets people manually manage files on their mobiles devices. 

 

 

I'd contend that file management isn't so much an important aspect of desktop computing as a holdover from an era when it was a necessary liability (compromise) to make computers usable.

 

 

The question is: why, in a modern operating system, do we need to "manage" the data like that at a high level? If I can fire up an application, and the application will tell me all the chunks of data ("files") that it knows how to manipulate, and even filter what it presents to me based on arbitrary criteria, then what advantage is there in me putting one chunk in directory X and another chunk in directory Y?

 

What we really want (and one thing the notion of 'managing' documents in particular directory structures desperately, but incompletely, tries to address) is to be able to apply meaningful meta-characteristics to the the data. File systems already do that to a certain extent with the timestamps built into the node structure, or the addition of file extensions tacked on to file names by applications.

 

For example, for the most part, Joe User isn't interested in the jpeg-formatted image data in a directory at /users/joe/documents/images/2012/mexico/ - what he really wants is the pictures from his 2012 vacation in Mexico. If he can open up an image viewer and type "Mexico 2012" to get what he's looking for, this is vastly more usable than memorizing that arbitrary pathname (and what's worse, that path may change over time as his collection of files changes). It's irrelevant where the data is physically located on a storage device, or even what storage device it's located on, only what the data is is.

 

Maybe Jane Photoshopwhiz is on the job, and needs to retouch the images from client "XYZ" she received on June 31st via email - she isn't interested in ~/desktop/photoshop/XYZ corp/recent/email revisions/*.png. If she can pop open photoshop and type in "XYZ June 31 email" to get exactly what she needs thanks to intelligent automated tagging (like automatically tagging the png's attached to an email from someone@XYZ.com with the received date/time, that the document source was an email attachment and possibly a cross-refence to the source email file), then she doesn't need to spend her billable hours fiddling with "managing files".

 

Add in some user-facing tagging abilities, and this gives us much more control in "managing" how we access the data. It's a far more usable solution than trying to shoehorn data chunks into a contrived tree structure.

 

Another major facet of the file management abuse we've trained ourselves to rely on is for versioning or backup purposes. Im my line of work, we don't make a change to anything without being able to immediately roll back to a previous version in case something isn't right with the modifications. But manually versioning files by changing file names or directories (a.k.a. "file management") is sloppy, inefficient and prone to user errors. Why manually (and possibly wrongly) apply arbitrary file name or directory changes that when the alternative is simply having a mechanism whereby saving a document/file (i.o.w. "committing a change") can store the changes as a delta to the previous version (making it more storage efficient) and provide a convenient hook for the aforementioned automated tagging system to work its magic.

 

What think us on this?

post #52 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post
 

 

The solid state drive you refer to, may use memory cell storage but these cells are not addressed in the same way as RAM. The interface that communicates with storage memory is file system block/sector based, not direct addressable, therefore these types of memories are much more akin to traditional HDD than RAM.

 

I understand this, but my comparison was intended to highlight the low level physical characteristics of the devices - a semiconductor versus a magnetic platter. It would seem I was not clear expressing myself with respect to the intent of the comparison. A failure on my part. :)

 

The original post I responded to was highlighting a perceived misuse of the terms "memory" & "storage", perhaps the comparison was not as useful as I thought it may be. However, as I also pointed out, linear access (as opposed to random access) storage devices have been used as "memory" (primary storage) making the access characteristics not a fundamental defining aspect of the system.

 

:)

post #53 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

It's time the manufacturers began placing the OS (and add-ons like bundled skins, mandatory software, etc.) on a separate chip, and leave the entire 16GB (or whatever is advertised) available for the user.  And whichever maker does this first can brag that they're offering TRUE specs in their advertising.

Alas, they never did this in 25 years of microcomputer sales, so I doubt it will happen with smartphones.
I would love it having its own 4gb chip, 16 gb for Samsung but it will never happen.

It is sad that only 3 devices are offering at least 75% of advertised.
post #54 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post
 

The original post I responded to was highlighting a perceived misuse of the terms "memory" & "storage", perhaps the comparison was not as useful as I thought it may be. However, as I also pointed out, linear access (as opposed to random access) storage devices have been used as "memory" (primary storage) making the access characteristics not a fundamental defining aspect of the system.

 

I don't think they're interchangeable at all, in fact the only times I hear people say "memory" when they mean storage is in error, i.e. they don't know what they're talking about. (NOT saying you don't! :)

 

Memory = RAM which is used temporarily by the OS and Applications as they are actively running, which is emptied when the device is off.

Storage = Storage space which your apps and data persistently whether the device is on or . I would never refer to this as "memory" as it's easily confused with the above.

post #55 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

I think you're confused. If you want to install a file manager, it's just an app, you don't need root.

 

Maybe, am I?  I haven't check on Android, but security on iOS and WP8 don't lets apps fooling around outside their sandboxes. If find it troubling if Android really lets any apps doing so.  

 

But this wasn't the point, most people doesn't manually manage their files, and Android like any other mobile OS are design to avoid file managing.


Edited by BigMac2 - 1/23/14 at 5:26pm
post #56 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 

 

I don't think they're interchangeable at all, in fact the only times I hear people say "memory" when they mean storage is in error, i.e. they don't know what they're talking about. (NOT saying you don't! :)

 

Memory = RAM which is used temporarily by the OS and Applications as they are actively running, which is emptied when the device is off.

Storage = Storage space which your apps and data persistently whether the device is on or . I would never refer to this as "memory" as it's easily confused with the above.

 

I think there is a generation misunderstanding here.   Mass Storage is a kind of memory like the CD-ROM and WORM acronym pointed out.  RAM can be a storage too with ramdisk apps, same as ROM can be paged like ram or access like a volume by the hardware.  

 

moderne computer as a lot more memory types than RAM and Storage alone. Register, Caches, VRAM, Pram, Firmware... are all differents type of memory present in all computer and mobile devices.  Question is more if the OS see it as a volumes or not. 


Edited by BigMac2 - 1/23/14 at 5:40pm
post #57 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastasleep View Post
 

 

I don't think they're interchangeable at all, in fact the only times I hear people say "memory" when they mean storage is in error, i.e. they don't know what they're talking about. (NOT saying you don't! :)

 

Memory = RAM which is used temporarily by the OS and Applications as they are actively running, which is emptied when the device is off.

Storage = Storage space which your apps and data persistently whether the device is on or . I would never refer to this as "memory" as it's easily confused with the above.

 

No, that's precisely my point, that the common usage is as the original poster indicated, but technically, storage is memory. I absolutely agree on the possibility for confusion when you're not speaking in clearly defined terms. The issue is that the original poster was contending on the merits of the technical meanings, as implied by the statement referring to the article as being authored by a "tech site", and not by (the ostensibly technically less inclined) "wife's Uncle Charlie". If I'm completely wrong on this, I withdraw the entire line, but it seemed to me that was the intent.

 

From a technical standpoint:

 

Even if you're referring to primary memory/storage, the memory space typically directly accessible by the CPU, but not an integral portion of the CPU, "memory" != RAM if for no other reason, because the "memory" does not imply a random-access characteristic. It may very well be, depending on system architecture, linear-access memory (or LAM, if you prefer ;)) is used for this purpose - as per my UNIVAC example.

 

As for the characteristic that the RAM is emptied once the device is off - that's not an inherent characteristic of RAM either. Any PC you yank off a shelf today will likely use volatile RAM for primary storage. This does in fact lose it's state at some point shortly after power is removed from the circuits. However, there are systems (or subsystems) that use non-volatile primary storage precisely because it does not lose it's state (well, not immediately, more on the order of 10 years-ish) and doesn't have to be re-initalized on every power-up of the system. In fact, you'll even find  (NV)RAM is in PC's used to maintain data for low-level hardware functionality (think MAC address).

 

All of my ranting aside (and now that I've typed all this):

 

I think I've already contributed enough to the derailing of the thread, so I'll drop it as of now. If anyone wants the last word, feel free, I won't argue. :)

post #58 of 84
Okay, the only reason I am here is because a card popped up on my Google Now about this article. First off, it is incorrect because you didn't specify which carrier GS4 you tested. The true test would be against a GT-i9505 Galaxy S4 Uncarrier unbranded Samsung phone just like an iPhone is.
I hate to break the bad news to you but my GT-i9505 International version 16 gig S4 without any bloatware has 12.9 Gigabytes of free space out of the box.
Next, Samsung's Touchwiz version of JB 4.3 allows migration of 95% of installed apps to the SD Card. You should really specify this. Google has absolutely no control over how Samsung manages their app storage techniques.
This whole article is false and just goes to show that you are biased against your own testing methods whether they benefit you or not. You just want Apple to be superior but they are not. My GS4 runs circles around my next door neighbors 5s. But then again I have a true out of Samsung GS4 just like the iPhone comes with no additional installed apps or software. I have rooted my phone and removed a bunch of Samsung crapware and now am showing 13.3 gigs of free space after I moved all movable apps to my SD Card.
Quit being so 1 sided. I know this is an Apple site but when you start falsifying comparisons it makes you look bad.
post #59 of 84

RAM is memory allocated to I/O processes of the CPU. Storage is space! Whether, it is an HDD, Flash memory or SD memory. It is used to "Store" data in it's digital form. Whether it is an .exe or jpeg file, it is a digital representation of that file. Applications then read that "file" and convert it to a image or an executable binary image in the cases I described as digital files. 

RAM = Random Access Memory for temporary bit data thoughput.

Storage = Dive space available to store digital form data. (1's and 0's)

16 gigs of storage, refers to how much storage is installed on the system prior to OS install and 2 gigs of RAM refers to how much Random Access Memory is available for the CPU to use for temporary bit data throughput usage and storage. You can't save a copy of tree.jpg in the system RAM. 

Masters in Computer Science - UC Berkely class of 79

post #60 of 84
Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post
First off, it is incorrect because you didn't specify which carrier GS4 you tested. The true test would be against a GT-i9505 Galaxy S4 Uncarrier unbranded Samsung phone just like an iPhone is.

 

AI didn’t do the testing, but you’re right here. Thing is, the very existence of the other models makes Samsung look idiotic.

 
Google has absolutely no control over how Samsung manages their app storage techniques.

 

Also not a point in the favor of either company. :lol:

 
This whole article is false…

 

Talk about false. :no:

 
You just want Apple to be superior but they are not.

 

Except they are.

 
My GS4 runs circles around my next door neighbors 5s.

 

Except it doesn’t. It’s really simple to understand. Go read about the products.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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post #61 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post
 

Any PC you yank off a shelf today will likely use volatile RAM for primary storage. 

 

Wait, are you saying you also refer to volatile RAM as "primary storage" for a PC? GoodGrief indeed. :)

post #62 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post
 

I'd contend that file management isn't so much an important aspect of desktop computing as a holdover from an era when it was a necessary liability (compromise) to make computers usable.

 

...

What think us on this?

 

We all create new, save or delete files every day on ours computer, after all the core function of an OS or DOS is to manage files and launch apps. 

 

If I remember well my computer history and how Apple "took" Xerox document preparation system idea and made the Desktop paradigm around it.  I think the needs for managing and storing different type of media needed for most projects was the basic needs the graphical Desktop addressed so brilliantly that is still the norm for all desktop computer. 

post #63 of 84
This is a stupid comparison since on most Android phones, including the Galaxy S series, you can install whatever size SD card you want. Apple should get with the program. Oh, that's right, they don't give you access to the files system because they think we're not smart enough to navigate a folder hierarchy.
post #64 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

 

I think there is a generation misunderstanding here.   Mass Storage is a kind of memory like the CD-ROM and WORM acronym pointed out.  RAM can be a storage too with ramdisk apps, same as ROM can be paged like ram or access like a volume by the hardware.  

 

moderne computer as a lot more memory types than RAM and Storage alone. Register, Caches, VRAM, Pram, Firmware... are all differents type of memory present in all computer and mobile devices.  Question is more if the OS see it as a volumes or not. 

 

To be clear, I don't misunderstand any of the above. :) What I'm saying is in a casual conversation or say a headline to a blog article in which one doesn't have the time or space to qualify what they mean by "memory", generally speaking memory refers to RAM which is separate from the "other thing" :) which is storage capacity, whether that storage is made from flash memory or cassette tapes or whatever. The point being "memory hog" makes me think of Safari gobbling up most of my 1GB of RAM, not how much space it occupies of my 64GB of storage.

 

And yes this is a bit pedantic, but maybe worth it if you, like I, have spent far too much time explaining the difference to people who, for example, tell me they need more RAM for their machine because their MP3 collection is using up all their memory. :)

post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post
 

RAM is memory allocated to I/O processes of the CPU. Storage is space! Whether, it is an HDD, Flash memory or SD memory. It is used to "Store" data in it's digital form. Whether it is an .exe or jpeg file, it is a digital representation of that file. Applications then read that "file" and convert it to a image or an executable binary image in the cases I described as digital files. 

RAM = Random Access Memory for temporary bit data thoughput.

Storage = Dive space available to store digital form data. (1's and 0's)

16 gigs of storage, refers to how much storage is installed on the system prior to OS install and 2 gigs of RAM refers to how much Random Access Memory is available for the CPU to use for temporary bit data throughput usage and storage. You can't save a copy of tree.jpg in the system RAM. 

Masters in Computer Science - UC Berkely class of 79

 

I don't know where you've found those definitions, but those are wrong.  Your RAM definition applies more to CPU Register or caches than RAM and your storage definition also applies to RAM where data is store in digital form (1s and 0s).  Have you ever heard of ram drives?

post #66 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post

Okay, the only reason I am here is because a card popped up on my Google Now about this article. First off, it is incorrect because you didn't specify which carrier GS4 you tested. The true test would be against a GT-i9505 Galaxy S4 Uncarrier unbranded Samsung phone just like an iPhone is.
I hate to break the bad news to you but my GT-i9505 International version 16 gig S4 without any bloatware has 12.9 Gigabytes of free space out of the box.
Next, Samsung's Touchwiz version of JB 4.3 allows migration of 95% of installed apps to the SD Card. You should really specify this. Google has absolutely no control over how Samsung manages their app storage techniques.
This whole article is false and just goes to show that you are biased against your own testing methods whether they benefit you or not. You just want Apple to be superior but they are not. My GS4 runs circles around my next door neighbors 5s. But then again I have a true out of Samsung GS4 just like the iPhone comes with no additional installed apps or software. I have rooted my phone and removed a bunch of Samsung crapware and now am showing 13.3 gigs of free space after I moved all movable apps to my SD Card.
Quit being so 1 sided. I know this is an Apple site but when you start falsifying comparisons it makes you look bad.

 

The article (including graphics) is mostly scraped from 3rd party sites, so you're kinda' barking up the wrong tree if you're worried about attributing responsibility for testing procedures.

 

Maybe I missed something, but I'm curious though, how do you rectify this (emphasis added):

Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post

I hate to break the bad news to you but my GT-i9505 International version 16 gig S4 without any bloatware has 12.9 Gigabytes of free space out of the box.
And this:
Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post

I have rooted my phone and removed a bunch of Samsung crapware and now am showing 13.3 gigs of free space after I moved all movable apps to my SD Card.
post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

We all create new, save or delete files every day on ours computer, after all the core function of an OS or DOS is to manage files and launch apps. 

 

If I remember well my computer history and how Apple "took" Xerox document preparation system idea and made the Desktop paradigm around it.  I think the needs for managing and storing different type of media needed for most projects was the basic needs the graphical Desktop addressed so brilliantly that is still the norm for all desktop computer. 

No argument on the history.

 

That said, the GUI is just a different representation of the notion we worked with before it existed, using the command line to manually manage the files. The mouse-click replaced the keystroke. User input is different but the underlying idea is the same. It's a digital translation of a concept from the physical world. It was a good paradigm while we were working on developing the underlying systems, but there's a better way to access digital data than to treat it like a physical object, and now we have hardware that can realize that new paradigm in a meaningful and practical way.

 

My proposition is that we really shouldn't need to manually manage the "files" at all - the OS should be doing that. As an end-user we should just be asking the OS for data that matches our criteria.

 

To use my previous example as a basis; there's nothing intrinsically useful to the computer about naming a file "MexicoVacation_001.jpg", that's really just for us anyway, as far as the file system goes, an inode number is infinitely more useful for locating the file data. In fact, I can put all my expenses from the vacation in an Excel spreadsheet with that exact name - heck, I can even have multiple files with identical names in different directories, none of which have anything to do with Mexico, vacations or images. Let me deal with meaningful metadata, make natural queries and leave the nitty-gritty of where and how to store raw data to the OS, it's much more suited to that task than I am.

post #68 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While many smartphones advertise 16 gigabytes of capacity, none of them actually offer that much storage to the end user. But both Apple's iPhone 5c and iPhone 5s offer among the most advertised space out of the box, while Samsung's Galaxy S4 comes in last place.

But but but... Samsung S4 customers don't need more space, all they use their phones for is texting and email... and Angry Birds.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #69 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

 

Originally Posted by DrPixel2 View Post

You just want Apple to be superior but they are not.

 

Except they are.

 
My GS4 runs circles around my next door neighbors 5s.

 

Except it doesn’t. It’s really simple to understand. Go read about the products.

 

I think that Tallest Skil has my favourite retorts.

 

I also believe that with the widely available memory expansion options that are out there like cloud options, wi-fi drives and hard cases with expandable memory, sd cards are no longer an acceptable feature for Android fans to gloat about. It seems that these third-party manufacturers recognize Apple's superior products and are providing a wide variety of options to support them.

post #70 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodGrief View Post

 

My proposition is that we really shouldn't need to manually manage the "files" at all - the OS should be doing that. As an end-user we should just be asking the OS for data that matches our criteria.

You're absolutely right on this point. However, it's a lot trickier than you realise because you still need to have the concept of folders.

 

Lets say for example, you want to find a video in your videos list. Well then we can just look for any file with a mime type of "video/*" surely. Except no because you probably don't want those videos cached from Youtube, or the intro video for an app. Ok well perhaps we can search only the user's 'personal' store. But perhaps they don't want those 10s intro clips they rendered as part of a longer video, or perhaps they don't want certain personal videos to show up immediately.

 

In reality the correct solution is a system of semi automated tagging and a tree type (ie folder) organisation system. Apple is probably the closest in this regard and show a real willingness to get rid of the classic filesystem. I worry they're making it too limited though, and I don't want to see OSX becoming iOS in this regard.

 

There are obviously a bunch of similar solutions for Linux but they're hardly suitable for the end user.

 

Probably the closest prototype I've seen is Google's new file picker dialog. It's buried in the OS and not really used directly in many places but it allows you to select a particular app or folder or storage and Android's media scanner picks up metadata. It's definitely still quite a way off what I would consider a modern filing system though.

post #71 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

You're absolutely right on this point. However, it's a lot trickier than you realise because you still need to have the concept of folders.

 

Lets say for example, you want to find a video in your videos list. Well then we can just look for any file with a mime type of "video/*" surely. Except no because you probably don't want those videos cached from Youtube, or the intro video for an app. Ok well perhaps we can search only the user's 'personal' store. But perhaps they don't want those 10s intro clips they rendered as part of a longer video, or perhaps they don't want certain personal videos to show up immediately.

 

In reality the correct solution is a system of semi automated tagging and a tree type (ie folder) organisation system. Apple is probably the closest in this regard and show a real willingness to get rid of the classic filesystem. I worry they're making it too limited though, and I don't want to see OSX becoming iOS in this regard.

 

There are obviously a bunch of similar solutions for Linux but they're hardly suitable for the end user.

 

Probably the closest prototype I've seen is Google's new file picker dialog. It's buried in the OS and not really used directly in many places but it allows you to select a particular app or folder or storage and Android's media scanner picks up metadata. It's definitely still quite a way off what I would consider a modern filing system though.

 

iOS solution of this is to delegate the file managing troubles to Apps.  They wanted to change old habit to search for a document first and launch the related apps by opening documents from the Finder.  Instead, on iOS each apps manage their own files and if you want to view one document with another Apps, you've got a "share" button that send a copy of the files within another apps on the devices.  So each apps become a "folder" and offert their own way of managing their contents. 

 

I agree, this is not the optimal way for working on a project that need many media of different types like desktop computing are means to, but for media consumption this is a way to avoid the needs of a file manager. 

post #72 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

iOS solution of this is to delegate the file managing troubles to Apps.  They wanted to change old habit to search for a document first and launch the related apps by opening documents from the Finder.  Instead, on iOS each apps manage their own files and if you want to view one document with another Apps, you've got a "share" button that send a copy of the files within another apps on the devices.  So each apps become a "folder" and offert their own way of managing their contents. 

 

I agree, this is not the optimal way for working on a project that need many media of different types like desktop computing are means to, but for media consumption this is a way to avoid the needs of a file manager. 

Android too takes a similar approach. Apps have their own storage areas but you can browse through them if you have the appropriate permission. There's also a share option but it works a little differently, although I understand iOS is moving towards the Android model as it is pretty impressive.

 

I wish I had a perfect solution for all use cases, because I'd sell it. My existing prototypes work surprisingly well, but they are difficult to use. Nobody wants to go to /Photos/AND/Public/AND/Tagged/Beach/ to find what they want.

post #73 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

Android too takes a similar approach. Apps have their own storage areas but you can browse through them if you have the appropriate permission. There's also a share option but it works a little differently, although I understand iOS is moving towards the Android model as it is pretty impressive.

 

I wish I had a perfect solution for all use cases, because I'd sell it. My existing prototypes work surprisingly well, but they are difficult to use. Nobody wants to go to /Photos/AND/Public/AND/Tagged/Beach/ to find what they want.

 

I think this was unnecessary trollish for an otherwise OK post.  iOS doesn't follow anyone but their own path since his introduction a year before Android. 

post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

I think this was unnecessary trollish for an otherwise OK post.  iOS doesn't follow anyone but their own path since his introduction a year before Android. 


I don't think that's particularly trolly. iOS introduced a notification bar that's quite similar to Android's too. It's ridiculous to think they haven't adopted good ideas from other vendors just like everyone else does. They certainly adopted many ideas from the jailbreak community, for another example.

post #75 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

I think this was unnecessary trollish for an otherwise OK post.  iOS doesn't follow anyone but their own path since his introduction a year before Android. 

One trollish post begat another trollish post.
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post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


One trollish post begat another trollish post.

Can you be more specific about what is trollish about my post? I really don't want to come across as a dick but I have used Android and the system of Intents/Actions/etc is really excellent. It solves some problems people currently have on iOS and I understand Apple is extending the uri handling to be able to function in a similar manner.

 

I don't think it can be a troll just to mention a competitor has a superior feature, and I'm certainly not trying to slate Apple's products in general or anything.

post #77 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 


I don't think that's particularly trolly. iOS introduced a notification bar that's quite similar to Android's too. It's ridiculous to think they haven't adopted good ideas from other vendors just like everyone else does. They certainly adopted many ideas from the jailbreak community, for another example.

 

You know whole "Apple stole the notification bar from Android" args start to be as old as the + 30 years old meme of Apple got a one bouton mouse only...   It amused me how people dismissed so easily the order of events.

post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post
 

 

You know whole "Apple stole the notification bar from Android" args start to be as old as the + 30 years old meme of Apple got a one bouton mouse only...   It amused me how people dismissed so easily the order of events.


I didn't say "stole". I really don't understand this forum sometimes. Did Android have a notification bar and similar notifications before iOS? Yes.

post #79 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsTheInternet View Post
 

Android too takes a similar approach. Apps have their own storage areas but you can browse through them if you have the appropriate permission. 

This is not quite accurate. An app's private storage area, just like on iOS, can never be accessed directly by other apps. However, apps can also opt to access and store data in a public directory that is accessible by all apps which declare the appropriate permissions (READ_EXTERNAL_STORAGE and WRITE_EXTERNAL_STORAGE, to be precise). This public directory is typically used for storing files that are typically accessed by more than one app, such as movies or downloaded pdfs, and is the only area you can explore if you install a file browser.


Edited by d4NjvRzf - 1/24/14 at 4:20pm
post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMac2 View Post

You know whole "Apple stole the notification bar from Android" args start to be as old as the + 30 years old meme of Apple got a one bouton mouse only...   It amused me how people dismissed s
o
 easily the order of events.

I would say borrowed it's implementation and modified it. Very few things are created in a vacuum from nothing, even if one builds something to be unlike another thing then the second thing helped build the the first thing.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
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