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WSJ: Apple to launch two larger iPhones this year, scrap iPhone 5c - Page 4

post #121 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


You know Steve personally? Steve Jobs also did not want to release the iPod or iTunes for Windows.
Agreed. the 4S will be history. The 5C/5S will still exist and be a "step down" as always. The 6 and 6+ Will be 4" and <5", respectively.

5C: free w contract, 8GB, one color.
5S: $100 w contract, 16GB; silver, black
6: $200 w contract, 16GB; silver black
6+: $250 w contract, 16 GB; gold, black

Obviously 32, 64 will exist on the 6. And 32, 64, 128 will exist on the 6+.

 

imo they need to keep the 5c colors around...  and at the current price of SSD, there is no point in making a gimp 8g version. Actually I hope the next iphones and ipads STARTS at 32g because this is getting ludicrous.

post #122 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

No $99 option?

The 5S.
post #123 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

imo they need to keep the 5c colors around...  and at the current price of SSD, there is no point in making a gimp 8g version.

I was going by history. Not sure they need all five colors and perhaps they'll go with 16GB.
post #124 of 240

Seems to me that there is an ambiguity in the WSJ story that is being interpreted solely in one direction by news outlets.

 

"Both new models are expected to feature metal casings similar to what is used on the current iPhone 5S, with Apple expected to scrap the plastic exterior used in the iPhone 5C, these people said."

 

"Apple's plan to scrap the plastic casing for its new models comes amid reports from suppliers that the company is scaling back orders for the 5C because of weaker-than-expected demand. The 5C, which was released in September, carries much of the same hardware specifications as its predecessor, the iPhone 5, but with colorful plastic cases."

 

These quotations mean two possible things re: 5C.

 

1)  They are scrapping all phones with plastic, including the 5C.

2) They are scrapping plastic for new models (but might retain the 5C line).

 

Seems to me the second quotation makes clear that #2 is the more likely meaning--the bigger phones will be metal, not plastic, but the "people" have nothing to say re: what happens with the 5C.  I suspect it remains with a price cut and this was the intention from its initial release (as was readying bigger phones for Apple's entry into China, which prefers bigger phones).

 

Note also that the "people" referred to WSJ did not say this was a certainty to happen.  Original story is, as usual, more nuanced than how it is being reported.

post #125 of 240
It
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

 
As for your derogatory comment about the original posters financial situation, that shows absolutely no class. The amount of money a person makes has nothing to do with their intelligence. 

... and yet, the contrary seems to be a common thread when people discuss Android phone users on AI.

It does appear to be correlated in that particular instance.
post #126 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

An important forum trolling skill is being able to cherry pick surveys and web links that prove what one already believes. 1smile.gif

I've seen that done more than a few times. Yup, it's a very common tactic for not just forum members but newspaper writers, editorials, blog articles, news reports, scholarly research papers etc.

Even more important for some AI posters tho is attacking the character of the person when you are unable to dispute the facts. That would be called egregious trolling. 1wink.gif
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post #127 of 240
Invoking speculation of what Steve Jobs would have wanted or done proves nothing. He wasn't some mythical authority figure from which all good decisions originate. And he explicitly told Tim Cook not to do something because Steve would have. So can we stop invoking him already?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #128 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


I was going by history. Not sure they need all five colors and perhaps they'll go with 16GB.

 

yeah, but some of Apple "traditionnal" way of doing things is getting on my nerves.  They way they handle memory on both old and new devices needs to change, $100 for 16g and 8g hardware is just plain stupid with current prices. If they start at 32g, at least you are getting 32 extra gigs for the first upgrade and even that is still too expensive.

 

They could maybe drop the 1 or 2 colors that sells the less, but the 5c is kind of about colors.

post #129 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Steve was initially against iPod compatibility with Windows PCs. iPods sales didn't really take off until they worked with Windows computers.

 

That's not what his statement said... it said that Steve did not want to release the iPod.

 

F***, man... read.

Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #130 of 240

Apple wants to move to all 64-bit ASAP so regardless of the size of the displays I expect an all 64-bit line up this year. 

 

Change is inevitable and some will embrace it and others will be dragged along kicking and screaming. You may be against a larger iPhone but you have to be blind if you think Apple will not introduce a larger display this year. The margins will likely be better on this phone as well since they will likely charge $100 more for it but the cost to manufacture will be around the same price as a 4" model if not less since there is more room inside the case. 

 

To anyone that claims anything larger than a 4" is too big I doubt you have ever used anything besides an iPhone or you would not say that. Tim Cook and Apple are not stupid and they realize a rather larger percentage of current iPhone customers bought an iPhones in spite of the current 4" display and not because of it. No one can predict how well a larger iPhone will sell vs. the current 4" version until it comes to pass. There is simply no way to gauge the number of people that want to use an iOS phone on a display larger than 4" until one is available to purchase. I can only guess like the rest of you but my prediction is it will be far more popular if priced the same and around a 50/50 split if they put a $100 or more premium on it. 

post #131 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

 

Everyone and their dog laughed at me when I said that the 5C would be a flop. It WAS a flop.

 

Perhaps Apple should name it iPhone IIvx now. 

 

Yes, except there is no proof it is a flop. You do not get to claim that until 1) Apple releases numbers, or 2) Apple discontinues the product. This is purely subjective, but I know several people who have them. The Wallstreet Journal is wrong all the time, especially when it comes to Apple. The most recent time was when the Wallstreet Journal claimed Apple and China Mobile had a signed deal that the parties would announce on December 12. China Mobile than denied a deal was yet signed, and no such announcement was made. Further, Apple's stock took a hit after rising because of the false claims. 

post #132 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDBA View Post
 


I never said those breakthroughs were revolutionary in any way. They're evolutionary just like every iteration of the original iPhone is, including every Android phone made since.  However analysts did miss these.

Touch ID is better than entering a code every time. It also helps with app purchases. Evolutionary but better than before.

64 bit processor, I'll give you. The benefits are not visible immediately to the end user.

Motion co-processor, depending on apps can be visible to user. Strava, map my run etc.  Battery life could also be affected too. So yes user benefits.

 

But in the end, the point I made was about stuff that analysts totally missed. And as for your little remark about them being better at it than me, well, I don't pretend to be one. They do. 

 

Yes, but you claim to know better than them, so you DO claim to be one of them.

post #133 of 240

it might not have lived upto Apple's expectations - which infact is very very good thing that has happened for Apple. 5c is pushing people to 5s which is better for Apple. talk about flop being a good thing for a company...

post #134 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanukStorm View Post
 

$450 off-contract for the iPhone 5c is still too high.  $349 off-contract for a budget iPhone is the right price. 

 

Apple doesn't sell junk

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post #135 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

Where have you been? The WSJ is a joke. They are no different than any other "newspaper" making up stuff to sell clicks. From the sound of your comment, you probably are a WSJ employee. When someone says "sources" they are simply hiding the fact they either made up the information of someone inside Apple or a supplier is committing a crime by releasing the information. Apple employees are fired for things like this. You must be a new to all the garbage coming out of places like the WSJ. This is typical of the WSJ and other media sources. Make something up to manipulate the stock market.

 

As for your derogatory comment about the original posters financial situation, that shows absolutely no class. The amount of money a person makes has nothing to do with their intelligence. 

 

I have no idea what the poster's financial situation is: he might be Mark Zuckerberg. But I am guessing not, since people  usually denigrate other people ("Wall street clowns") because they are envious. So, the OP should show some respect to people he does not know, and who are actually pretty good at what they do.

post #136 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by cws View Post

The New York Times is the most respected paper in the world -- not the Wall Street Journal.

"Was" the most respected but we don't talk politics here....
post #137 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 

 

yeah, but some of Apple "traditionnal" way of doing things is getting on my nerves.  They way they handle memory on both old and new devices needs to change, $100 for 16g and 8g hardware is just plain stupid with current prices. If they start at 32g, at least you are getting 32 extra gigs for the first upgrade and even that is still too expensive.

 

They could maybe drop the 1 or 2 colors that sells the less, but the 5c is kind of about colors.

I agree 100%. I was shocked that they didn't go to 32/64/128 last year but I suppose they have their reasons. But I think this will likely be the year that we see that shift and you will only see 16GB on the lowest price iPhone model they sell intended for pre-paid and 3rd world customers. As far as the colors, I might be in the minority but I would actually prefer a plastic iPhone 6 with a larger display and all the newest specs instead of aluminum. I have a case on my 5s but with plastic I would likely be willing to try going without a case since the plastic model is more durable. My problem with the 5c is I don't want last years specs and I also don't like any of the color choices. I would much prefer darker tones in the colors like a British racing green or closer to navy blue for example. 

post #138 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobSchlob View Post
 

 

Absolutely.

No one hand use; No sale.

 

I have an HTC One with a 4.9" (I think) display, and there is absolutely no problem using it with one hand.

post #139 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

 

Wrong. Apple's goal was to launch a mid-range model that would maintain its margins on the basis of zero R&D development instead of truly innovating as it has always done.

 

Worse, it was clearly aimed at emerging markets or even the vast poorer segments of the US; but it has failed spectacularly at this task because, EVEN in developing countries, the price of the 5S was almost the same as that of the 5C (particularly considering that many people buy on instalments in such markets). So why buy CRAP when you can buy better?

 

Flop, flop, flop. Thankfully, the IIvx of the iPhones is no more.

 

Come on there was some development cost to the 5C in terms of developing the shell, but I get your point. Apple also  wants to preserve margins as well. You, however, have no proof the 5C is not selling well. An unnamed source from the Wallstreet Journal is hardly proof. 

 

I suspect the iPhone 5C is selling fine. More importantly, it is taking up more space on third party shelves and websites. Right now, the iPhone 5C is listed in first place on T-Mobile's Top Selling phone web page. 

post #140 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I've seen that done more than a few times. Yup, it's a very common tactic for not just forum members but newspaper writers, editorials, blog articles, news reports, scholarly research papers etc.

Even more important for some AI posters tho is attacking the character of the person when you are unable to dispute the facts. That would be called egregious trolling. 1wink.gif

I believe "they" is the proper pronoun when referring to "some AI posters". We wouldn't want any misunderstandings 1wink.gif

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post #141 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

 

I have an HTC One with a 4.9" (I think) display, and there is absolutely no problem using it with one hand.

 

Maybe you have big hands? Otherwise, I suspect many people might have a hard time reaching across the whole screen with their thumb. 

post #142 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


You know Steve personally? Steve Jobs also did not want to release the iPod or iTunes for Windows.
Agreed. the 4S will be history. The 5C/5S will still exist and be a "step down" as always. The 6 and 6+ Will be 4" and <5", respectively.

5C: free w contract, 8GB, one color.
5S: $100 w contract, 16GB; silver, black
6: $200 w contract, 16GB; silver black
6+: $250 w contract, 16 GB; gold, black

Obviously 32, 64 will exist on the 6. And 32, 64, 128 will exist on the 6+.

 

We will not be seeing last years top model for $99 ever again.  Those days are over.  In fact we won't be seeing any METAL phone sold at a discount from the previous year.  It will all be plastic.  Apple has learned that releasing the top end model the next year at a discount is dangerous for margins.  It was coming to a point that over 50% of the phones sold were not the high end phone ( with the 5 vs the 4S).  We will see top end phones in metal and mid range phones in plastic.  The transition was made with the 5S/5C

 

6 - 4 inch $199

6L - 4.8 inch $249-$299

 

iPhone Color - $0 / $450 unlocked

 

All will have A7 and run 64 bit.  The 5C will be replaced by iPhone Color.  They will make different colors each year or change a few colors.  That way it will be a 'new' phone each year.  They won't make a plastic 6 phone.  Because they will tarnish the halo of the iPhone 6.

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post #143 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by cws View Post
 

Okay.  Here is your evidence. The Pulitzer Prize is the gold standard for determining the journalistic quality of an American news publication. The NY Times has won far more Pulitzers than any other paper.  The survey you cite is a mere popularity contest, on the order to the voting one might see on American Idol.  The members of the Pulitzer Committee are experts, focused on evaluating the true journalistic excellence of a publication and its reporting.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pulitzer_Prizes_awarded_to_The_New_York_Times

 

That is nonsense. The NYT covers a much wider spectrum, so will obviously win more awards, everything else being equal. (The WSJ is not exactly prominent in battlefield photography or food criticism).

post #144 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post
 

 

Maybe you have big hands? Otherwise, I suspect many people might have a hard time reaching across the whole screen with their thumb. 

 

Nope, I have small hands. Since I haven't conducted any surveys, I don't about "many people", but certainly I have known women who were not in the WNBA and had no problem using their large(isn) screen phones. 

post #145 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

This is total and utter horse-sheet.

 

If Apple comes up with two large screen iPhones including one that is larger than 5 inches AND gets rid of the 5C - I'll leave this site forever.  

 

O, St Steve, please make it happen! I will be good the whole year, I promise!

post #146 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Apple doesn't sell junk

If Apple sold a the exact same 5c in a few months for $459 or even $399 would it suddenly become junk because it was priced lower? That makes no sense. You could make the argument that Apple doesn't sell below "X%" margin and that would be far more accurate. Lower price does not equal junk.  You can buy a 16GB Nexus 5 for $349 and it is not a junk phone by any means. It is a very nice phone that in many ways is superior to the 5c for a lot less money. Now I realize that Google is selling this phone near cost or even at a loss which is not a game Apple will or should play but you are flat out wrong that cheaper always means junk because it does not. Some of the highest prices items like Beats headphones are the real junk while you can buy far superior headphones at a much lower cost. 

post #147 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by krreagan View Post

These "analysts" are so full of crap it's unbelievable! None of them know jack sh1t but they think for investors to have confidence in them they have to publish something otherwise the investors would realize they totally suck! They have to spew this completely uninformed solid gold crapola only to be proved wrong! However the investors don't look at their history, only that the crapola looks plausible! Fact is nobody knows what Apple is going to do except Apple.
That is why the "analysts" look so freak'n stupid the day after Apples presentations.
KRR

 

Clue deficiency is a terrible thing.

post #148 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

 

That is nonsense. The NYT covers a much wider spectrum, so will obviously win more awards, everything else being equal. (The WSJ is not exactly prominent in battlefield photography or food criticism).

And to you, I say this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_of_record

 

There is only one American newspaper of record.  It is the New York Times.

post #149 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Apple doesn't sell junk

The Moto G is a perfect example of cheap but not junk. It's a fantastic device that makes very few compromises to reach its $180 price point. Apple could match that phone in design and capabilities and sell it for $250 or less off contract to maintain its high margins.
post #150 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by cws View Post
 

And to you, I say this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspaper_of_record

 

There is only one American newspaper of record.  It is the New York Times.

 

I quote from the wiki page:

 

A "newspaper of public record", sometimes referred to as an "official newspaper", refers to a publicly available newspaper that has been authorised by a government to publish public or legal notices.[2] It is often established by statute or official action and publication of notices within it, whether by the government or a private party, is usually considered sufficient to comply with legal requirements for public notice.[3]

A variation of this type are those newspapers controlled by governments or political parties that serve as official newspapers of record reflecting the positions of their controlling bodies. State organs such as theSoviet-era Izvestia (the name of which translates to "delivered messages", derived from the verb izveshchat which means "to inform", "to notify")[4] and the People's Daily in China[5][6][7][8][9] are examples of this type.

 

I completely agree that NYT is the "party line" newspaper, just like Pravda was. That does not make either of them trustworthy. My personal experience with NYT is that whenever they publish something about a field I know about (science, technology, finance, local news about parts of NYC and NJ I lived in) they generally get it wrong. WSJ is much better, Financial Times and Bloomberg better yet.

post #151 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
 

If Apple sold a the exact same 5c in a few months for $459 or even $399 would it suddenly become junk because it was priced lower? That makes no sense. You could make the argument that Apple doesn't sell below "X%" margin and that would be far more accurate. Lower price does not equal junk.  You can buy a 16GB Nexus 5 for $349 and it is not a junk phone by any means. It is a very nice phone that in many ways is superior to the 5c for a lot less money. Now I realize that Google is selling this phone near cost or even at a loss which is not a game Apple will or should play but you are flat out wrong that cheaper always means junk because it does not. Some of the highest prices items like Beats headphones are the real junk while you can buy far superior headphones at a much lower cost. 

 

You do realize Apple is already sacrificing margins selling the 5C vs the 5S?  They are also sacrificing revenue and profits.  The MSRP for the 5C is $550.  How the HELL are they going to drop the price by $200!!!

 

Sure the Nexus 5 is nice.  But Google ain't making ANY MONEY AT ALL on that phone.  ZERO!!!  Just like Amazon makes ZERO on their tablets.

 

Also I don't think they will just bring out the 5C again.  I think they will add the A7 to make the entire lineup 64 bit.

 

Just simple math:

 

iPhone 5C has about a 50% gross margin

MSRP: $550

Gross Margin: $275

Cost of materials: $275

 

You want to price the 5C at $350

MSRP = $350

Gross Margin: $175

Cost of materials: $175

 

Now tell me how in HELL is Apple going to shave $100 off of the cost of making the 5C?  That's almost taking off 40% of the cost.  Impossible!!  Only if they are willing to sell it at an ultra thin margin or lose money with every sale like Amazon/Google clowns.

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post #152 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post


The Moto G is a perfect example of cheap but not junk. It's a fantastic device that makes very few compromises to reach its $180 price point. Apple could match that phone in design and capabilities and sell it for $250 or less off contract to maintain its high margins.

 

FRICK!!!

 

Stop this BS.  Google losses money on every phone they sale.  Motorolla lost $1,000,000,000 last year.

 

You can't compare this to an iPhone and expect Apple to sell at a loss. 

 

The MotoG has no 4G LTE

The camera is horrible

Web browsing is slow and choopy

And of course its a direct line to Google spyware

 

It may not be junk but its not even close to the 5C


Edited by sog35 - 1/23/14 at 12:35pm
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post #153 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

 

I quote from the wiki page:

 

A "newspaper of public record", sometimes referred to as an "official newspaper", refers to a publicly available newspaper that has been authorised by a government to publish public or legal notices.[2] It is often established by statute or official action and publication of notices within it, whether by the government or a private party, is usually considered sufficient to comply with legal requirements for public notice.[3]

A variation of this type are those newspapers controlled by governments or political parties that serve as official newspapers of record reflecting the positions of their controlling bodies. State organs such as theSoviet-era Izvestia (the name of which translates to "delivered messages", derived from the verb izveshchat which means "to inform", "to notify")[4] and the People's Daily in China[5][6][7][8][9] are examples of this type.

 

I completely agree that NYT is the "party line" newspaper, just like Pravda was. That does not make either of them trustworthy. My personal experience with NYT is that whenever they publish something about a field I know about (science, technology, finance, local news about parts of NYC and NJ I lived in) they generally get it wrong. WSJ is much better, Financial Times and Bloomberg better yet.

 

Please read the section of the Wikipedia article that distinguishes between the paper "of public record" and the paper, simply, "of record (by reputation)".  For your convenience, I provide a quotation, here:

 

Newspapers of record (by reputation)[edit]

The most common definition of a "newspaper of record" (also known as a "journal of record", or by the French terms Presse de référence and de référence) is not defined by any formal criteria and its characteristics can be variable. The category typically consists of those newspapers that are considered to meet higher standards of journalism than most print media, including editorial independence and attention to accuracy, and are usually renowned internationally.[14][15] Despite changes in society, such newspapers have historically tended to maintain a similar tone, coverage, style and traditions.[14]

post #154 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I believe "they" is the proper pronoun when referring to "some AI posters". We wouldn't want any misunderstandings 1wink.gif

Thanks for an example. 1biggrin.gif
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post #155 of 240
Originally Posted by c4rlob View Post
Didn't Apple swiftly discontinuing their first best-selling iPod mini after a year? 

 

Totally different situation.

post #156 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkris View Post
 

it might not have lived upto Apple's expectations - which infact is very very good thing that has happened for Apple. 5c is pushing people to 5s which is better for Apple. talk about flop being a good thing for a company...

 

And you REALLY think that launching a flop was a deliberate Apple strategy to push 5S sales? Now that's some hardcore RDF you're into.

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post #157 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Totally different situation.

 

Indeed. The Mini's discontinuation was a courageous move to reinvent and innovate - just the OPPOSITE of what the 5C represents.

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post #158 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by brlawyer View Post
 

 

And you REALLY think that launching a flop was a deliberate Apple strategy to push 5S sales? Now that's some hardcore RDF you're into.

 

Not a flop. 

 

They just needed to stop the recent trend of too many people opting out of the top end model and buying the previous years model thats 'good enough'.  I think last year the 4S/4 sold over 50% of phones(when the 5 was the top end).  That had to end.  The top end phone has to be the best seller to preserve margins and profits.

 

The 5C is not a failure.  It has a very specific target market.  Its for those who are very price sensitive and don't care about having high end tech. Its also great for kids because of its plastic case.

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post #159 of 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

larger screens will help margin.

They can charge $199 for the regular 4 inch size and $249-$299 for the bigger iPhone

but the competition from samsung does not allow apple to raise iPhone price too much. current 5s/c's pricings are inline with samsung's offers, if not more. if bigger iPhone is required another $100 more, it would defeat the whole purpose. 

 

it is a good run for apple keeping the same iPhone production line for almost 7 years. for bigger iPhone, it is hard for apple to recover from those overhead cost for new production line in shorter term, except a new category device with new brand and pricing scheme. 

 

anyway, what i am saying is that apple can not just provide a bigger size iPhone for sake of providing it. it has to have something extra to surprise us.

post #160 of 240

Last year, Apple _had_ to make a cheap(er) iPhone model or they would lose all their sales in China and overseas.

 

Cook, being less hardheaded (or more easily misled) than Jobs, complied, and guess what? The cheap  iPhone waaay undersold the expensive, full featured, non-plastic one.

 

This year, the same crew has been saying Apple _has to_ make an iPhone with a phablet-like screen, or Apple is doooomed!

 

My prediction? Next year's _smaller_ iPhone, assuming the other specs are the same, will easily outsell the big one.

 

Although he had impossible shoes to fill, I think Cook is pretty smart. I think he will eventually learn to ignore the noise, like Jobs could. 

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