or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Samsung whiffs on earnings thanks to iPhone and Asian rivals
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Samsung whiffs on earnings thanks to iPhone and Asian rivals - Page 2

post #41 of 57
Every manufacturer is going to hit limits with the market. Markets grow more quickly when they are new. Apple went up first and slowed first because they were first. Android became usable 2 years after Apple introduced the iPhone and so it took off later and has slowed later. The market is still growing but it's going to slow down the more that people already own devices. What happens next is the manufacturers looking for marketshare and to maintain growth cut their margins and the net profit drops but unit volume goes up. This allows them to gain traction in developing countries.

Apple didn't do this with the Mac to the extent PC manufacturers did, they stuck to high margins and prices. While that has resulted in 5% global Mac ownership, they maintain their profit and are still competitive in volume with individual counterparts. The iOS devices haven't suffered the same lower sales volume. The ownership is roughly 700 million iOS vs 1 billion Android so assuming those two make up 95% of all modern smart devices, they'd have iOS with 39% marketshare and Android 56% and at least 1/5th of the Android ones are on 2.x. This is partly because although Apple maintains margins and prices, the price points are low enough that it doesn't make as much of a difference. A $500 15" laptop or a $2000 15" laptop is a big difference; a $199 7" tablet or a $299 iPad mini is not that big of a difference.

When it comes to phones, the cheaper ones are going to affect the volume going forward now that Nokia is dead in the water so the sales volume to developing markets is going to be huge. This isn't a high profit market though. I fully expect Samsung and others to cut margins, sell loads of devices into developing countries and Samsung alone might top 1 billion smart device sales per year but their profit won't grow. Apple will stick to what they do and end up making the same or more profit for a fraction of the volume, same as they do with the Mac.

They have different strategies. Samsung is the type that thinks the customer is always right, Apple thinks the customer doesn't know what they want until they get it so they make the call. Samsung says 'so you want a big phone, small phone, medium phone, yellow, green, pink, with stylus, no stylus, in plastic and metal, with removable battery, you got it'. Apple says 'here's a couple of phones that make reasonable compromises and that's it because too many options undermines having choice'. If people don't like Apple's strategy, they go with Samsung. So far, it's pretty evenly split. Apple doesn't need to take the whole market, nor does Samsung and neither of them will.
post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

They are still up YoY, QoQ is meaningless.  That being said they are getting hit by the Nexus phones and tablets as more and more consumers wants pure Android, easy upgrades and no bloatware.

Must be fun to compete in a market where you're OS maker is dumping hardware at cost, enjoy...

Well both the numbers are meaningless if you just compare them using simple arithmetic.

But if you have operational knowledge, you can understand or interpret them better.
post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post
 

 

You "only" need to control the shipper and jailbreak the phone. You'll need physical access to the phone (Hence, the need to temper with the shipping process). And it's not just iPhone. All phones are vulnerable to this. If NSA runs Apple, they don't even need to bother the shipper.

 

But Android phones are more vulnerable to malware (which will include hacking attempts remotely).


I think you have missed the point.  You need to know that phone A is going to person B, in order to do your thing.

post #44 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by patsu View Post
 

 

He's saying Samsung's mobile phone sales *decreased*, but overall revenue was propped up by other electronics sales.

 

Increase in marketing expense and holiday shopping should have boosted their mobile phone sales too. Apparently, they didn't help much against low cost alternatives and Apple's new phones.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSnow View Post
 

 

Samsung's revenue includes Consumer Electronics department (domestic electronics, like TV), which contributed to that "slightly up revenue". Samsung's Mobile department dropped 9% in revenue and 18% in profit QoQ. 

 

 

Yes, I know the divisions performed differently, but this article was about Samsung's company-wide earnings.  Those company-wide earnings didn't decrease based on a decrease in revenue; instead they decreased based on an increase in expenses.

post #45 of 57
Apple is still doomed, right?
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Apple is still doomed, right?

All day, everyday. lol.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

AI's spin on this story differs significantly from the rest of the tech press. It's worth hearing this story from all sides.

 

Well duh.   It is *Apple* Insider, so count on everything being skewed pro-Apple and anti-Samsung.  =p

 

A miss is a miss and not good for Samsung at all.  I think the 'big Gorilla' for Sammy is if Apple releases a bigger phone.

The 'big Gorilla' for Apple is if carriers effectively kill subsidies Apples profits are in serious trouble.

 

While AI likes to blow up "RECORD SALES" for Apple, they neglect Apples declining profits.

While blowing up a quarterly miss for Samsung, they neglect strong overall profit growth.

 

                                  2012                     2013              Delta

Apple                        55.2b                    49b                 11% decline

Samsung                  27.1b                    34.3b              27% increase

 

Samsung still had solid growth, just not as much as anticipated.

Apple needs to turn their trend around and make more money in 2014 than they did in 2013.

 

If both companies continue their 2013 trajectories into 2014 Samsung's profits will exceed Apple's

post #48 of 57
Quote:
"Samsung's two major challenges for 2014 are to maintain its mobile-phone leadership in... the U.S., ....[and] knock Apple iPad from its perch," said Neil Mawston of Strategy Analytics.

 

Excuse me, did you say that Sammy leads Apple in US smartphone profits?  I don't think so.  Sammy doesn't even beat Apple in U.S. smartphone market share.  Apple is at 42%, Sammy at 26%, according to http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/16/apples-iphone-now-represents-42-of-smartphones-owned-in-the-us---npd

 

Also, why must Sammy "knock the iPad from it's perch"? Why doesn't Sammy just innovate and create something new to make profits from?

 

I notice that nobody is asking "Why can't Samsung innovate any more?".


Edited by TeaEarleGreyHot - 1/24/14 at 11:31am
post #49 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post
 

Is this Galaxy Gear? Where did this picture come from? It definitely isn't a shipped product. All the screw-heads are properly aligned.

Photoshop.

post #50 of 57
Love seeing the spin people are putting to make it seem like Samsung did well.

The real story isn't a slight growth from 2012 - it's that in a holiday quarter they didn't even outperform the previous quarter. I find that rather pathetic.

The last two years (2011, 2012) Apple did a whopping $18 billion more in sales in the holiday quarter compared to the previous quarter. From $28 to $46 billion in 2011 and $36 to $54 billion in 2012.

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply

Author of The Fuel Injection Bible

Reply
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricTheHalfBee View Post

Love seeing the spin people are putting to make it seem like Samsung did well.

The real story isn't a slight growth from 2012 - it's that in a holiday quarter they didn't even outperform the previous quarter. I find that rather pathetic.

The last two years (2011, 2012) Apple did a whopping $18 billion more in sales in the holiday quarter compared to the previous quarter. From $28 to $46 billion in 2011 and $36 to $54 billion in 2012.

They had an overall increase in profit yoy.  What quarter it happens in isn't that big of a deal.  Apple probably has a higher holiday quarter growth because that's when they release their products (iPhone and iPads).  Samsung generally releases their Galaxy line in March/April.

 

Apple had a yoy increase in sales over the holiday quarter for 2012 to 2013, but their annual net profit dropped from 41.7 b (2012) to 37 b (2013.

But I guess that holiday quarter is the most important thing...

post #52 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 

 

Excuse me, did you say that Sammy leads Apple in US smartphone profits?  I don't think so.  Sammy doesn't even beat Apple in U.S. smartphone market share.  Apple is at 42%, Sammy at 26%, according to http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/01/16/apples-iphone-now-represents-42-of-smartphones-owned-in-the-us---npd

 

Also, why must Sammy "knock the iPad from it's perch"? Why doesn't Sammy just innovate and create something new to make profits from?

 

I notice that nobody is asking "Why can't Samsung innovate any more?".

sorry they can't innovate. never have - never will. they are nothing more than a "me too" company. Name one thing they have introduced to the world. not the phone, not the tV, not even the toaster, fridge or vacuum....it would be foolish to think otherwise.

android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

Reply

android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

Reply
post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post
 

AI's spin on this story differs significantly from the rest of the tech press. It's worth hearing this story from all sides.

 

Um, ENDGADGET is hardly "the rest of the tech press" and perhaps among the least credible of the crop, especially considering their clear, ongoing feud-driven anti-Apple biases.

 

Why link them when you could've linked WSJ, MSNBC, or other equally credible sources when speaking about Apple or their competitors (a bit of added /s in that last part about credibility).

post #54 of 57

""Samsung's... challenges for 2014... growing its tablet business quickly enough to knock Apple iPad from its perch..."

 

Because of course, "Making sure one's challenges and expectation are realistic..." isn't the point, right...?

 

Also, why is AI still quoting anything from Strategy Analytics, knowing that pretty much every "result" or "opinion" they publish is paid PR?

post #55 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post
 


Better be careful with that line of attack unless someone asks the question how could the NSA intercept shipments of iPhones destined for particular individuals and install their spyware on them then pop them back into the shipping process so the altered phone reached the targeted individual?  To do that you would almost think you would have to be running Apple or something.

 

What part of "the shipments were intercepted..." do you not understand? Shipped means 'out of Apple's hands'. Intercepted, redirected... that's after the fact, and done by the NSA.

 

The rest of your conspiratorial implications make little sense. 

 

Have you never shipped anything before? Would you also hold yourself responsible if someone intercepted your package and added drugs or worse to the box?

 

Google just paid a substantial fine (albeit insignificant to their bottom line) for "spying" on Safari users. They had a direct hand in it. Big difference there. We're talking apples and oranges again.

post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueDogRandy View Post
 

sorry they can't innovate. never have - never will. they are nothing more than a "me too" company. Name one thing they have introduced to the world. not the phone, not the tV, not even the toaster, fridge or vacuum....it would be foolish to think otherwise.


Yes, that was my point.

post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post
 


Yes, that was my point.

I was agreeing with you. Just expanding on your point.

android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

Reply

android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Samsung whiffs on earnings thanks to iPhone and Asian rivals