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Apple reports $13.1B in Q1 2014 profit on record sales of 51M iPhones, 26M iPads - Page 4

post #121 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

 

well, stock manipulation is pretty much defined by "manipulating expectation", so.... you're right about that.

...you nailed it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

It’s just silly to read about the constant claims of ‘stock manipulation’ in these forums.

 

Give up, guys. Stock prices are all about expectations. If you don’t meet them, your stock will, in all likelihood, fall. You can’t legislate or wish away how people form their expectations for the future. Cook and Oppenheimer have a job to manage expectations, if they think it’s too optimistic or pessimistic. For better or worse – typically for worse – they never do.

 

If it’s not something you like, you should stay out of the stock market. It’s really as simple as that.

...it's still manipulation.

And most here are not saying it's some giant conspiracy...it's the fact that big money players CAN manipulate and when the majority position sways to one side, it causes overly-dramatic price swings...especially with Apple.  Why?  Because you just said it, Cook and Oppenheimer don't (never) manage public expectations (and neither did Steve)....thereby leaving it to media and big players to MAKE UP reasons for the price swings.

 

The thing most concerning is the fairly low guidance for 2Q.  Maybe Tim is expecting to disrupt this quarter thru new product announcements (which I doubt but hope)?  That could explain the low guidance.  Or just that it'll be slow/boring leading up to new product announcements in 3Q (more probable)?

post #122 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post
 

No but any MBA with 12 years' experience at IBM directing supply chain could do as good a job.


I used to work at IBM, I don't share your sentiments.  IBM is a huge filter where good and bad people join, and then the good people leave </repeat>...   Anyone there 12 years is a lost cause for the most part.

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post #123 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Ignorance is bliss. You don't become a $200 Billion+ revenue corporation by being an ignorant CEO. You not buying in on Apple during the iPod phase is the true ignorance.

Well Gill Amelio did. Or so thought Jobs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

BTW Apple old days of double digit growth are from a different CEO that was a lot more aggressive than the current one.  I am sure TC was very good at operations during that time, but he is playing it "safe" now, like the good operation guy he is.

I think so too. Interesting the difference here between the defence of a new CEO (/manager) and a soccer site I post on where the last charismatic leader took the team to untold heights and the new guy has destroyed that legacy in 6 months. There there is nothing but criticism of the new guy - here Jobs is clearly replaceable by an accountant type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

I don't remember ever seeing Samsung report how many mobile phones they sold. Shipped? Yes. Sold? No.

If you have any references to such, please post.

Until then, I would be most interested in, 'How many iPhones Apple shipped'.

51M.
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post #124 of 180
Originally Posted by AppleFanatic View Post

Stock prices are always correct

 

Hoo boy.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #125 of 180

Stock prices reflect what people think, and people's thoughts can be and are manipulated, especially ill-informed pundits. An Icahn can talk the price up, and others can make money shorting after "analysts" claim some arbitrary "expectation". If the expectations are always wrong, what is the basis for listening to them?

post #126 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

Apple is doomed!!!! Sell your stock now! Tim Cook should be fired!

/sarcasm

But with the terrible no growth Q2 guidance, tomorrow Apple would test $450.
post #127 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post
 


I used to work at IBM, I don't share your sentiments...anyone there 12 years is a lost cause for the most part.

Erm...Tim was there 12 years...just sayin'

Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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Shut up and go away, you useless, pathetic FUDmonger - Tallest Skil
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post #128 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

 

OK, "to wall street" maybe that's true to a degree.

 

But honestly, on sales in the $10s of billions, a .7% YoY margin swing is not remotely considered a price mover. Plenty of other concepts are in play here. Especially when they improved by a similar amount (.9%) over the previous quarter (which already answers your question, "when will margins hold steady or rise?" They just rose .9% QoQ). I could check to see if that is a trend over multiple quarters, but those micro-movements are probably not as important as you're making them out to be. 

 

Down .7% YoY, up .9% QoQ (they came in at a 37% margin the previous quarter).... that says, "they are sustaining margins" to me (yeah, I still need my glasses, sadly). Small shifts are not the issue at all. The swing from 40% to 37% (Q4 '12 ~ Q4 '13) was probably more meaningful, but easily explained, as sustaining those kinds of margins (40% and above) is frankly unrealistic and dangerous over a longer term. It prevents managed shifts in pricing and supply to remain competitive. Especially in a market where you are pretty much the only company earning a significant slice of the overall pie. And, most of that movement happened in one quarter the year before, not over time as a rapidly declining trend. No, Apple still enjoys record quarters in all metrics pretty much across the board...

 

So, regardless of what "wall street" obsesses on in the immediate, I disagree that "it's all about margins", just like I disagree that "it's all about growth potential"... those alone aren't what give the stock its fundamental value.

 

Looking at the bigger picture, Apple stock should be doing fine, so I suspect it will be back up in pretty short order here. Watch the next few hours and days. I may be golden or I may eat crow. We'll see! :D

 

You're not getting it. It is an incremental movement when considered q to q but it a move downward when looked at yoy. What is supposed to be Apple's best quarter and, for all intent and purpose, the quarter where you would expect margins to be sustained from the last q. When you say that +.9 balances out -.7... are you kidding? Really? Start adding up the difference between earnings from each quarter and then you will find out that the two don't even come close to cancelling each other out.

 

You've proved my point by saying that 40% or greater margins are not sustainable. Exactly what Wall Street is hearing.

 

So, next year, let's say it drops another .7%... even if the q to q is up .9%... then what happens.

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post #129 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by hentaiboy View Post
 

Erm...Tim was there 12 years...just sayin'

 

Let's hope Tim doesn't prove his point.

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post #130 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Except Apple changed how they provide guidance. They used to sandbag and provide guidance that they could easily beat. Now they provide guidance that is more realistic. So Wall Street shouldn't expect them to blow past guidance.

 

This is a huge improvement for Apple and I'm impressed with how consistent they've been in their guidance.  Hopefully the 'ta-da' days of Steve are long gone- it makes for way too much speculation.  It is somewhat tolerable for a smaller company, but with Apple being the biggest kid on the block now too many investors will get burned.

 

If you believe firmly that Apple will remain within its guidance, the answer is pretty obvious.  Any time the stock price is based on expectations that are higher than Apple's guidance- sell.  As long as Apple continues to be right you'll make good money, and Apple is always right, right?

 

I agree the dip is more than it should be, but at the same time the numbers would have me a little worried if I were heavy in Apple.  AI obviously focuses on 'blowout' and 'record' *number* of sales- which are true and staggeringly impressive at near 80m devices.  What they don't point out is that the 'record' $13.1b in profit is just about the same they made in the same quarter last year (it was actually slightly less than last year $13,072 this year vs $13,078 last)- with fewer sales and lower revenues.

 

So if Apple can only hold on to flat profits when they have record sales, what happens as the margins continue to be under heavy pressure (and god forbid subsidies go away in which case their margins will outright collapse) and the rate of growth of the market continues to slow down or even flatten?

 

Apple has so many potential upsides, but also quite a few lurking pitfalls, so it is prone to gyrations on which way the wind is blowing.

 

One upside I see a little neglected is the growing impact of iTunes revenue.  Don't get me wrong, with 56% of their sales coming from iPhone, Apples valuation is still pretty much all about the phone- but iTunes snuck in with an impressive 8% of sales.  If Apple can continue to foster iTunes so it becomes a larger and larger percentage of their valuation, that could lead to great things for Apple (especially since the p/e will be free to climb beyond the constraints of a 'hardware company').

post #131 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

 

Well, that would all be a great narrative if it didn't fly directly in the face of facts and recent history.

 

Under Tim Cook, Apple has enjoyed the most significant growth in its entire history. Yes. That's a fact (never mind the price of the stock on any given day). It was under Tim Cook's leadership that the company rocketed into its "most valuable company" status, which it also enjoys today. (Or did, I'm not sure if the $50 drop after hours changed that or not).

 

I don't know where you get these wild speculations about TC "playing it safe" etc. The Mac Pro release is HARDLY a 'safe play', ya think?

 

Herby, your posts are becoming more and more filled with supposition and invention, and starting to appear a lot more troll-like to me. What's up with that?

 

I get tired of this old saw that TC was CEO during Apple's most significant growth period.

 

Let's go back a few years and have a look at Sculley. Apple did very well under him as well... until it didn't. Sculley kept going back to the SJ well, until it went dry. He just never had the Steve Jobs touch.

 

Right now it seems to me that Tim is also still going back to the SJ well.

 

Let's hope that Tim knows that one thing in a hundred that will sustain Apple's fortunes.

 

My favourite quote from Steve:

 

"People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on. But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully. I'm actually as proud of the things we haven't done as the things I have done. Innovation is saying "no" to 1,000 things."

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post #132 of 180
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Let's hope Tim doesn't prove his point.

 

The decade and a half at Apple thereafter has already disproven it.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #133 of 180
Can't believe some of the comments on this site , what does Apple have to do ?
Apple keeps on making incredible products !
Who else is doing what Apple Is doing ?
All these companies are competing against one company!!!!!
Sampson/ Sony/ Motor roller/ Blackberry/ Nokia / and many more .

and Apple standalone

I've been using Apple products for 3 years now and I'm glad I made the switch !
And I can't wait for my new Mac pro http://youtu.be/IbWOQWw1wkM
Edited by comley - 1/27/14 at 5:09pm
post #134 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

I get tired of this old saw that TC was CEO during Apple's most significant growth period.

 

Let's go back a few years and have a look at Sculley. Apple did very well under him as well... until it didn't. Sculley kept going back to the SJ well, until it went dry. He just never had the Steve Jobs touch.

 

Right now it seems to me that Tim is also still going back to the SJ well.

 

Let's hope that Tim knows that one thing in a hundred that will sustain Apple's fortunes.

 

My favourite quote from Steve:

 

"People think focus means saying yes to the thing you've got to focus on. But that's not what it means at all. It means saying no to the hundred other good ideas that there are. You have to pick carefully. I'm actually as proud of the things we haven't done as the things I have done. Innovation is saying "no" to 1,000 things."

 

I'm not hewing with an old saw. Just responding to a post that demanded the reminder.

 

As for your favorite SJ quote, it's one of mine as well. Look at what TC said today about the ongoing potential for their future.... it mirrors that philosophy beautifully, and makes it clear that they too agree that this spirit instilled by SJ is exactly what makes Apple unique among companies (and what we most appreciate about them)...

 

TC today: "Innovation is deeply embedded in everybody here. There's so much of the world that is full of very complex products, We have zero issue coming up with things we want to do. We must focus on the very few that deserve all our energy. We've always done that and we continue to do that."

 

In other words, saying "no" a thousand times for every "yes" continues apace... and it isn't just TC making the decisions about that next big thing. He has a fantastic, seasoned team alongside, and that's why I remain very positive about their prospects.

 

​I don't think we could have asked for a better "post-Steve" transition. It's more than three years on, and they're doing alright so far. I'm taking the less cynical view here. I'm all for giving them the space to create and innovate. They won't always get it perfect, or hit every note, but I have high expectations for the crew that remains, and expect great things from them. 

 

Incremental for the most part, but still great.

 

And I believe Apple will continue to thrive throughout. If they just keep doing what they're doing, hitting their stride, we have plenty of excitement ahead, I'm sure.

post #135 of 180
Woe is me...
I'm going to have to sell my 2000 shares I bought in 1994 now.
Bummer!







Super Sarcasm!
Wall St - You Greedy Douchbags!
ROFLMAO!
post #136 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post

Apple the only company that would lose 100 billion in market cap on a 10% earnings beat.  The funny think is, it was only down 5% until Cook and Oppenheimer opened their financially obtuse mouths -- that added another 5%.  I thought Cook was supposed to be a supply chain genius?  He still can't anticipate demand for iPhones this late in the product cycle?  Complete incompetence at the one thing that was supposed to be his forte.  

What's sad is that Apple will have demand for 80mil iPhone 4.5" & 5" iPhones during the 2014 holiday qtr and hey'll make 60mil so they can get all the headlines. Kinda tired of that game. I think the fact they only sold a few million more iPhone 5s' compared to 5's in the year ago quarter, especially with the Touch ID, is evidence that the 4" iPhone is loooong in the tooth, no matter what features they add to it. Time to expand the iPhone options, because if they don't, look for less than 40mil sold a year from now. The next 3 qtrs are gonna be rough I believe, but a few rumors of Iwatch, itv, and larger screen iPhones should keep the stock treading water in the $400's. I think anything below $500 is a great buying opportunity, if you're willing to hold for 1.5 years. I can't imagine being under $700 in June of 2015.
post #137 of 180

Woe is me...

I bought my 2000 shares back in 1994.

I guess I'm doomed now!

 

 

Super Sarcasm!!!

Dirty Wall St Ratbags - after seeing the Wolf Of Wall Street, does anyone really have to wonder what the heck is going on there...

"Greedy Wall St Scumbags."

 

LMAO!

post #138 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

 

I'm not hewing with an old saw. Just responding to a post that demanded the reminder.

 

As for your favorite SJ quote, it's one of mine as well. Look at what TC said today about the ongoing potential for their future.... it mirrors that philosophy beautifully, and makes it clear that they too agree that this spirit instilled by SJ is exactly what makes Apple unique among companies (and what we most appreciate about them)...

 

TC today: "Innovation is deeply embedded in everybody here. There's so much of the world that is full of very complex products, We have zero issue coming up with things we want to do. We must focus on the very few that deserve all our energy. We've always done that and we continue to do that."

 

In other words, saying "no" a thousand times for every "yes" continues apace... and it isn't just TC making the decisions about that next big thing. He has a fantastic, seasoned team alongside, and that's why I remain very positive about their prospects.

 

​I don't think we could have asked for a better "post-Steve" transition. It's more than three years on, and they're doing alright so far. I'm taking the less cynical view here. I'm all for giving them the space to create and innovate. They won't always get it perfect, or hit every note, but I have high expectations for the crew that remains, and expect great things from them. 

 

Incremental for the most part, but still great.

 

And I believe Apple will continue to thrive throughout. If they just keep doing what they're doing, hitting their stride, we have plenty of excitement ahead, I'm sure.

 

I had absolutely no fear for Apple's near term future when Sculley took over either. It's Apple's long term health that I wonder about... as I did then.

 

You can have the best team in the world... but if they don't have the vision to see that one more thing...

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post #139 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

The decade and a half at Apple thereafter has already disproven it.

 

... as a supply chain guy... sure.

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post #140 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Apple provides a range for earnings and they beat the middle of that range. The analysts are jackasses. If you could pick up an undervalued stock at a bargain basement price by badmouthing and floating bad data, would you do the same? That's a very large incentive to poison the well and pick up AAPL at a discount.


What people fail to take into account is Apple's market cap. Next Christmas, Apple will need to sell near 8 million more iPhones than this past qtr just to grow at a healthy 15%. 8 million additional iPhones is about the number of S4's Samsung sold this past qtr. Very, very hard to do with saturated markets, without some amazing new phone, or a new line of revenue. They need to invest heavily in ipayments and iTV, and offer 3 different size iPhones. That's where their growth will be found.
post #141 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I had absolutely no fear for Apple's near term future when Sculley took over either. It's Apple's long term health that I wonder about... as I did then.

You can have the best team in the world... but if they don't have the vision to see that one more thing...
And you know the current team doesn't have the vision? I suppose they could release some half baked thing ala Galaxy gear just to prove they're innovating but I'd rather have them release things when they're ready, not just to scratch wall streets itch.
post #142 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

You're not getting it. It is an incremental movement when considered q to q but it a move downward when looked at yoy. What is supposed to be Apple's best quarter and, for all intent and purpose, the quarter where you would expect margins to be sustained from the last q. When you say that +.9 balances out -.7... are you kidding? Really? Start adding up the difference between earnings from each quarter and then you will find out that the two don't even come close to cancelling each other out.

 

You've proved my point by saying that 40% or greater margins are not sustainable. Exactly what Wall Street is hearing.

 

So, next year, let's say it drops another .7%... even if the q to q is up .9%... then what happens.

 

I don't know what I'm not "getting", man.  YoY vs QoQ? Increment vs trend? I'm suggesting the major correction happened over a year ago, and since then we're seeing an improving "trend" comparing margins to revenue. Reflected in the past couple of quarters especially... a stabilizing of margins (I see it, and you say I need glasses. Are you even looking at what I'm referring to?). I don't believe we will see a further significant erosion of margins (the kind that matter to the bottom line or long-term health of the company). The supposition of a further YoY decrease of fractional margins (which don't really matter unless they continue long term) is correct, but I don't see that as an ongoing trend.

 

And I'm not sure what your point is/was to be honest (what I supposedly proved for you?)... a year ago, I was discussing what I saw as a pretty substantial "correction" to their (even then) unrealistic margins. You couldn't sustain those high margins long term and maintain competition, etc. When they adjusted from >40% to high 30s (running roughly between 37 and 38 pretty consistently since) they actually improved their flexibility, ability to adjust to conditions and competition, etc. So, we agree in principal about the >40% margins not being sustainable... but that's REALLY old news!

 

I don't think growing the margins again from where they are now is actually healthy or desirable. They even have some room to decrease them in a positive way (because not all margin reductions are bad things). I'd probably be happiest if they could ride between 35 and 37. That to me is very sustainable, allows for solid revenue / net profit growth (in real terms, not percentages) while remaining competitive and flexible.

 

Saying Wall Street is all about the margins is in a small way shifting that "need for growth" philosophy into margins, where there is an inherent ceiling. That shouldn't be the criteria at all. And building on a perception of "shrinking margins" is not accurate if you're implying that they're falling dangerously, or anywhere near distressed levels. 

 

Meanwhile there isn't any measurable or foreseeable ceiling to Apple's revenue growth. The stuff that really matters. Stay in the mid to high 30s for margins, and keep growing revenue. That's a healthy picture. The margin correction in late 2012 was a necessary one. Now we're cruising in high-gain mode. I see margins stabilizing. Why do you see a different picture?

 

Now I wonder if it's you that doesn't get what I'm trying to say here? ;)

post #143 of 180
What I'd truly like to see as a shareholder is Apple scrapping the 2% dividend, not initiating any more buy-backs, grow their cash, and wait for a $ repatriation holiday from the gov't....and then 6 years down the road buy back over half their shares on the open market in one fell swoop and watch their stock soar past $1200 The 2% dividend is not doing the stock price any favors....it's hurting it.
post #144 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

... as a supply chain guy... sure.

He's been heading Apple on and off for over 5 years. At what POINT do you finally give the guy some due??

 

He clearly isn't doing a bad job. Old saw or no, Apple is has grown huge and is growing huger by leaps and bounds under his leadership.

 

I may not like his style as much as Jobs', but I can't fault the job he's doing. The team is awesome. The leaps forward last year alone were fantastic, as well as foundation building steps. 

 

What I can do with my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Air and iMac together (due to how iOS, OSX and iCloud work together, not to mention app interoperability) is pretty groundbreaking stuff. Most of that has come together in just the past 12 to 18 months.

 

I'm sure Jobs had a hand in that. These things didn't happen overnight. But SJ has been gone for over 3 years. His legacy and inspiration remains. And the team today is rocking it WAY better than Sculley and his crew ever did. 

 

I never had much faith in John Sculley. Had serious doubts from day one. He proved my misgivings right. I have the opposite view regarding this team. 

 

I'm surprised you feel any differently having the comparisons at hand.

 

Pause and reflect on something. 77 MILLION iOS devices (not counting iPods) last quarter alone.

 

Immensely profitable quarter. 

 

No end in sight for that momentum. 

 

At what point do you finally put aside the cynicism, and just say "wow"....?

post #145 of 180
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
He's been heading Apple on and off for over 5 years.

 

Since 2004, really. He took over during the first cancer bout.

 

But SJ has been gone for over 3 years.

 

October 2011.

 

77 MILLION iOS devices (not counting iPods) last quarter aloneImmensely profitable quarter. 

 

That’s grounds for dismissal, that is. :lol:

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #146 of 180
Too much people here miss S. Jobs. I do too, but I think T. Cook doing a great job at Apple. And "yes", he probably don't have the vision of Jobs, but who can pretend to have it? To compensate, they seem to work more as a team. And I admire Cook for this reason: not trying to be S. Jobs!

Should these quartely results had been obtained under S. Jobs, everyone would had been happy 1wink.gif
post #147 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Stock prices are always correct

Hoo boy.

He means ex ante, not ex post.
post #148 of 180
So everyone says Apple is DOOMED but yet still come up with unrealistic targets and then when Apple doesn't meet them punishes the stock. And punishes the stock even though numbers outside of North America were up pretty much across the board. When Apple does well in North America it gets downplayed. This quarter they did really well overseas and the focus is on North America. No matter what Apple does it can't win.
post #149 of 180

How well did Apple fare in CY 2013 (2012)?

 

in billion $

revenues:  173.99  (164.69)

net profit:    37.03   ( 41.75)

 

in million

Macs:       17.11  ( 17.00)

iPads:       74.23  ( 65.70)

iPhones: 153.46  (135.80)

post #150 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

And you know the current team doesn't have the vision? I suppose they could release some half baked thing ala Galaxy gear just to prove they're innovating but I'd rather have them release things when they're ready, not just to scratch wall streets itch.

 

Again... WTF are you talking about?

 

Do you just respond without reading the other person's post.

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post #151 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So everyone says Apple is DOOMED but yet still come up with unrealistic targets and then when Apple doesn't meet them punishes the stock. And punishes the stock even though numbers outside of North America were up pretty much across the board. When Apple does well in North America it gets downplayed. This quarter they did really well overseas and the focus is on North America. No matter what Apple does it can't win.

 

Give your head a shake. Why do yo give a sh*t what Wall Street thinks. Damnit man. Apple is healthy. That's all that matters. For that, Apple is winner all the way.

 

Now let's hope that Cook isn't just good at spitting out products but that he can choose another category winner that will continue Apples stellar growth.

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post #152 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

He's been heading Apple on and off for over 5 years. At what POINT do you finally give the guy some due??

 

He clearly isn't doing a bad job. Old saw or no, Apple is has grown huge and is growing huger by leaps and bounds under his leadership.

 

I may not like his style as much as Jobs', but I can't fault the job he's doing. The team is awesome. The leaps forward last year alone were fantastic, as well as foundation building steps. 

 

What I can do with my iPhone, iPad, MacBook Air and iMac together (due to how iOS, OSX and iCloud work together, not to mention app interoperability) is pretty groundbreaking stuff. Most of that has come together in just the past 12 to 18 months.

 

I'm sure Jobs had a hand in that. These things didn't happen overnight. But SJ has been gone for over 3 years. His legacy and inspiration remains. And the team today is rocking it WAY better than Sculley and his crew ever did. 

 

I never had much faith in John Sculley. Had serious doubts from day one. He proved my misgivings right. I have the opposite view regarding this team. 

 

I'm surprised you feel any differently having the comparisons at hand.

 

Pause and reflect on something. 77 MILLION iOS devices (not counting iPods) last quarter alone.

 

Immensely profitable quarter. 

 

No end in sight for that momentum. 

 

At what point do you finally put aside the cynicism, and just say "wow"....?

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

We're talking about Wall Street's view of Apple. Not mine. I'm giving you the reasons as to why Wall Street is reacting the way it does. At least that was where this started. You can go off on any tangent you want... but it has nothing to do with me.

 

F*ck me! 

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post #153 of 180
Apple break all the records of all known companies except the oil explorers. Yet wall street is not happy! Well go and watch the movie "assault on wall street" and you will understand what the traders are really made of. In real world - these are real proof: JPMorgan and all the others just recently paid penalties for their trading "expertise", and the traders value Googles future promised earnings forgetting past 12.5 billion $ purchase of Motorola. That's the picture of the wall street guys. So do not be surprised if they say Apple is doomed!
post #154 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric38 View Post

What I'd truly like to see as a shareholder is Apple scrapping the 2% dividend, not initiating any more buy-backs, grow their cash, and wait for a $ repatriation holiday from the gov't....and then 6 years down the road buy back over half their shares on the open market in one fell swoop and watch their stock soar past $1200 The 2% dividend is not doing the stock price any favors....it's hurting it.
That doesn't make any sense. Apple would need to amass the non-cash value of the company in cash in order to buy back half of the shares, and if they were to do that, they've just frittered away all of their money on shares and the company's net worth is slashed by 50%. The stock would see a small spike because of the volume of trading, but would go back down soon after.

Less shareholders, but no long term value created; a complete waste of time, effort and money.

Stock buy backs are only a good investment for shareholders if the
company is likely to be valued more in the future than it is today.

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post #155 of 180
"expectations" are numbers pulled out of thin air... Apple misses "expectations", and the stock drops...

Last October Amazon reported a LOSS of $41,000,000, and the next day the stock goes UP $30??

Reality doesn't exist on the stock market....
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Dr
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post #156 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

WTF are you talking about?

 

We're talking about Wall Street's view of Apple. Not mine. I'm giving you the reasons as to why Wall Street is reacting the way it does. At least that was where this started. You can go off on any tangent you want... but it has nothing to do with me.

 

F*ck me! 

 

 

I was replying to two entirely different threads. The wall street view is a different one. This was about:

 

Tallest: The decade and a half [[Tim Cook has been]] at Apple thereafter has already disproven it.

 

You:  ... as a supply chain guy... sure.

 

 

Then my response. Where is the "wall street perspective" in that exchange? Sorry, you lost me. This here wasn't anything to do with the discussion of margins we've been carrying on....

 

So, in this thread, I asked what it would take for you to see TC as more than just "the supply chain guy"... you've been expressing doubt comparing him to John Sculley.... or did I misunderstand something there?

post #157 of 180
Apple had an outstanding quarter, but they left money on the table in my opinion. Case in point. Instead of a larger handset, which some user prefer, they went with a multi-colored version of last year's iPhone. Had they actually listened to the market Apple could have easily shipped 55+ handsets. That's my $.02...
post #158 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Since 2004, really. He took over during the first cancer bout.

 

October 2011.

 

That’s grounds for dismissal, that is. :lol:

 

oh that's right, I forgot about that brief stint in '04... it was just a few months that time, wasn't it? But he really proved himself capable over those few years. And got the best mentoring anyone could ask for....!

 

Right, so almost 3 years rather than more than 3 years. I was thinking mostly of when TC really started handling the day to day stuff...

 

I know right? To hear some of the pundits go on about Cook, it's almost like the sheer enormity of that figure is completely lost on them. 

 

77 MILLION pocket computers, in a single quarter. Do we have final numbers on how many iOS devices were sold in 2013? Close to 200 million I'm guessing...

 

Yeah, definite grounds for dismissal :D

post #159 of 180
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post

oh that's right, I forgot about that brief stint in '04... it was just a few months that time, wasn't it? 

 

You’re right. It was roughly, what, five or six months while Steve recovered from his first operation.

 

I was thinking mostly of when TC really started handling the day to day stuff...

 

Oh, you’re right. And Steve officially resigned in August, having been at home for months before that… 


WWDC was the last time we saw him on stage and probably around the last time Steve had any big involvement in day to day.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #160 of 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

 

 

I was replying to two entirely different threads. The wall street view is a different one. This was about:

 

 

You:  ... as a supply chain guy... sure.

 

 

Then my response. Where is the "wall street perspective" in that exchange? Sorry, you lost me. This here wasn't anything to do with the discussion of margins we've been carrying on....

 

So, in this thread, I asked what it would take for you to see TC as more than just "the supply chain guy"... you've been expressing doubt comparing him to John Sculley.... or did I misunderstand something there?

 

Sorry... I'm old... I get confused.

 

I'm not comparing Cook to Sculley per se.

 

Both Cook and Sculley were/have been increasingly very profitable. Both men followed on the heels of successful product introductions by Steve Jobs. Both men did not/have not introduced any new product categories (actually, Sculley introduced the first laptop).

 

I've seen one of Tim Cook's forays into developing a new product, the 5c, and I'm hoping that isn't any indication of the success of any new product categories.

 

As far as Apple's financial success under Cook... I'm betting there are at least a couple of other guys on the planet that could have done that much. The real test will be Cook's ability to grow the company beyond its current boundaries... in the same manner as Jobs.

 

So, yes... I need more evidence of Cook's ability to grow the company. I already know that he can keep the products alive that were developed under Jobs.

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