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Samsung widens lead in worldwide smartphone marketshare, smaller OEMs rising - Page 2

post #41 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

When did Samsung say they shipped 86 million smartphones last quarter? I'm sorry but that number is so bogus it isn't even funny. If Samsung really shipped that many phones how is it that their profits came nowhere near Apple's &13B.

I was in Target yesterday and many of the cheap prepaid phones were Samsung. The profit on those phones is close to nil.
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post #42 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Then how in the world are they considered smartphones?

Well did you consider the iPhone 3GS a smartphone? They use tech that's a few years old but still enough to be a smartphone.
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post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

Say it with me. Apple reports shipped numbers like the rest as well. Enough of this nonsense.

Sammy doesn't report numbers. Apple reports shipped and estimates inventory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Then how in the world are they considered smartphones?

Who gets to decide what a smart phone is? Analysts? Marketers? There is no smart phone market, just a cellular phone market.
post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frood View Post

The category to watch is 'other'

Samsung and Apple have more or less divvied up the existing market.  Mostly the rich areas of the world.  All the rich peeps have their phones now and growth is growing considerably.

Samsung also took the time to deliver smartphones to the low end of the market and pretty much dominated that with little competition.

That is the market that is expanding and has the future growth (despite low margins).

Both Apple and Samsung are likely to get a beating in market share numbers this year.  Apple chose not to release a product that will compete in the segment, and Samsung for the first time is going to counter serious competition.  China is by far the biggest market with the most growth and the homefield teams of Huawei and Lenova are likely to just keep cleaning house.

This is pretty much right on the ball. There's two cycles the Wall St. people tend to ignore:
Carrier Upgrade cycle (2 yrs) vs Device Lifetime (7 years)
Consumer pocket depth


This is the lifetime of an iPhone:
Year 1: Original Owner
Year 2: Hand-me-down or sold to a friend
Year 3: unlocked and hocked on eBay
Year 4: Likely kept around as the Kids phone/iPod replacement/backup
Year 7: Recycled or thrown out.

Where as a Samsung phone:
Year 1: Original owner
Year 2: Original owner/Kids phone.
Year 3: Recycled or landfilled.

The cheap feature-phone replacements that are Android devices are usually not attached to Data plans, and only use WiFi, if the user is competent enough to setup WiFi. Most of these free chinese-brand phones will likely just be prepaid/burner/MVNO phones in the US and Europe. That is the "Other" in the image above.

People who want to stay cutting edge will replace their phone every 18 months on the dot. Carriers will only subsidize a phone if it's within the last 6 months of their contract. Wealthy people will replace their device whenever it's convenient to, contract or not. Everyone else in North America can't afford to replace their 1000$ smartphone every year, and are usually SOL for two years if they break the device on the first day. This is why 3 year contracts were something of a Joke in Canada, because even if you could get an iPhone or a Samsung S series, it was obsolete before the contract was up. US carriers never used to even subsidize smartphones (unless you worked for Microsoft.)

Like I'd be surprised if in 5 years that Samsung still has it's lead. Apple isn't concerned about making cheap devices, because those would be poor products nobody wants, just look at how well the 5c" did. Apple would have to seriously cripple the device to make it affordable. Samsung has more leverage in doing this since it owns more of the production line for their devices.
post #45 of 80
I'll tell it to you all from behind the (not-so-great) firewall. Those who can afford it have BOTH an iPhone and Samsung in hand or sitting on the table in front of them wherever I look. iPhone is the high end accessory to flaunt, whereas the Samsung Phablets has the, let's face it, screen real estate that people do want instead of having to squint at the lame'o screen of the iPhone (hey, I am an Apple gear whore, but I use the iPad for ALL my mobile computing needs and a POS, cheapo function phone for the basic nessessity of calling people)...that is why I gave up the iPhone, because of the shitty ass eye f---ing screen. Apple needs a wake up call in two departments: bigger phablet screen for their iPhone (or maybe a telephone functioning iPad mini) & REMOVABLE media slot ALL their superb mobile devices.
post #46 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

When did Samsung say they shipped 86 million smartphones last quarter? I'm sorry but that number is so bogus it isn't even funny. If Samsung really shipped that many phones how is it that their profits came nowhere near Apple's &13B.

Samsung shipped 13 million Galaxy S4 according to some report.  This is far smaller than the 51 million iPhones Apple sold.  You can see that the media always pick the fact they like to exaggerate and not telling you the full story.  

post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glasses Man View Post

I'll tell it to you all from behind the (not-so-great) firewall. Those who can afford it have BOTH an iPhone and Samsung in hand or sitting on the table in front of them wherever I look. iPhone is the high end accessory to flaunt, whereas the Samsung Phablets has the, let's face it, screen real estate that people do want instead of having to squint at the lame'o screen of the iPhone (hey, I am an Apple gear whore, but I use the iPad for ALL my mobile computing needs and a POS, cheapo function phone for the basic nessessity of calling people)...that is why I gave up the iPhone, because of the shitty ass eye f---ing screen. Apple needs a wake up call in two departments: bigger phablet screen for their iPhone (or maybe a telephone functioning iPad mini) & REMOVABLE media slot ALL their superb mobile devices.

But iPad is considered a replacement for the laptop.  Apple has been sued for the iPhone.  Because the Texas patent holder thinks he has a patent of putting the phone capability on a computer.  He did not sue all the other Android phablet makers like Samsung and he lost the suit to Apple.  Could Apple start putting the phone function to the iPad?  Do we have a legal expert on this forum? 

post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post
 

 

That logic only goes so far. If Samsung consistently shipped more than it sold, its financials would suffer. Samsung's not a money-laundering operation; they have to report to their investors. 

 

If we never know how many of the shipped phones actually sell to a customer then there is limited value in a shipped metric.  75% of Samsung's smartphone sales are low-end (non-Galaxy).  How many of those phones languish on the shelves of carriers and retailers before being discontinued and sent back to a warehouse to become warranty stock?  Its not a guarantee that every shipped phone will eventually become a sold phone.

post #49 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

When did Samsung say they shipped 86 million smartphones last quarter? I'm sorry but that number is so bogus it isn't even funny. If Samsung really shipped that many phones how is it that their profits came nowhere near Apple's &13B.

Samsung shipped 13 million Galaxy S4 according to some report.  This is far smaller than the 51 million iPhones Apple sold.  You can see that the media always pick the fact they like to exaggerate and not telling you the full story.  


Out of the 51 mil iphones maybe 50% are 5s.

Samsung also shipped something like 15mil note3 during that quarter. That's like 25 - 30mil high end phones which is more than the 5s. And this is during apple highest sales quarter.

Out of the big manufacturers apple has the lowest yoy growth which doesn't bode well for Apple.
post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post


Out of the 51 mil iphones maybe 50% are 5s.

Samsung also shipped something like 15mil note3 during that quarter. That's like 25 - 30mil high end phones which is more than the 5s. And this is during apple highest sales quarter.

Out of the big manufacturers apple has the lowest yoy growth which doesn't bode well for Apple.


No, 5S to 5C ratio is like 3 to 1. If they are equal why the street think 5C is a failure?

post #51 of 80

The 5c is a high-end phone.  Its not a low-end phone in the same way that Samsung's non-Galaxy phones are low end.

post #52 of 80
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
No, 5S to 5C ratio is like 3 to 1. If they are equal why the street think 5C is a failure?

 

No one said they’re equal. Apple sells THREE phones.

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post #53 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

No one said they’re equal. Apple sells THREE phones.


The person I quoted said.  He is called No one?

post #54 of 80
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
The person I quoted said

 

Absolutely nothing whatsoever about the iPhone 5C. He spoke of the 5S. The 5S can be 50% of the market without the 5C being 50%.

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post #55 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Absolutely nothing whatsoever about the iPhone 5C. He spoke of the 5S. The 5S can be 50% of the market without the 5C being 50%.


He is wrong about the 5S.

post #56 of 80
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
He is wrong about the 5S.

 

Is he? How much did it sell, then?

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post #57 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No one said they’re equal. Apple sells THREE phones.

There's still new iPhone4's being sold, particularly by some of the pre-paids. No idea if Apple is maintaining some stock or if these are old unsold carrier inventory.
https://www2.virginmobileusa.com/phones/catalogPurchase.do?quantity=1&sku=885909630738
Edited by Gatorguy - 1/28/14 at 9:35am
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post #58 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

Out of the 51 mil iphones maybe 50% are 5s.

Samsung also shipped something like 15mil note3 during that quarter. That's like 25 - 30mil high end phones which is more than the 5s. And this is during apple highest sales quarter.

Out of the big manufacturers apple has the lowest yoy growth which doesn't bode well for Apple.

So where are the actual numbers from the other manus?
post #59 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Is he? How much did it sell, then?

5S is the number one US smartphone sales in Nov.  5C is number three.  Number two is GS4.

post #60 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


Are you saying you don't believe that number?

It's a bit like being the busiest restaurant in town. It doesn't mean you're the most profitable. You can be sure if Gordon Ramsay opened shop in your town and made the launch week entirely free to dine there you can only imagine how busy the restaurant would be. But a lot of money would be lost in the process. Like the way selling the most of anything doesn't make you the most profitable in your market segment. One of the exceptions probably being Coca Cola. But then, in their case there product doesn't cost any less than the competition. Once again in the phone space the company with the highest margin will make the most profit. And as usual we know who that company is. I'll be interested to see Apple's lineup this year.

 

The dearth of funds indicate that of the 86 million shipped, the majority that Samsung sold were cheaper, smaller low powered phones...

 

...with small screens.

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post #61 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Then how in the world are they considered smartphones?

 

...because of their ability to install native apps, which I believe is still the accepted definition.


Edited by hill60 - 1/28/14 at 11:38am
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post #62 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

Samsung also shipped something like 15mil note3 during that quarter.*

 

* Figure pulled from arse.

 

If Samsung "shipped" that many Note 3's, outselling the 9 million S4 shipments they reported:-

 

a) where is the money and

 

b) why weren't Samsung crowing about it in the financial report they released a couple of days ago.

 

Reality equals smaller screened smartphones dominate the market.

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post #63 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
 

But iPad is considered a replacement for the laptop.  Apple has been sued for the iPhone.  Because the Texas patent holder thinks he has a patent of putting the phone capability on a computer.  He did not sue all the other Android phablet makers like Samsung and he lost the suit to Apple.  Could Apple start putting the phone function to the iPad?  Do we have a legal expert on this forum? 

 

FaceTime voice.

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post #64 of 80
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
5S is the number one US smartphone sales in Nov.  5C is number three.  Number two is GS4.

 

Okay. How does that disprove his statement that 50% of iPhones were 5S’?

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post #65 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Get it through your thick skulls, Apple fans, Wall Street has decided that market share is THE most important metric. And by that metric Apple is doomed. End of story, period. Why is that so hard to understand and accept? Apple had their best quarter ever in terms of sales, they make money hand over fist, their products are top shelf, their customer service is the best, but they are losing market share so that makes them poison to investors these days. Google spent $3.2 billion for a thermostat and they are applauded as the future of tech. It’s long past the time for Apple fans to wise up and drink the hemlock. Realize the company you love is dirt between the toes of Wall Street.

Haha true.

That's good news for "Others" then. They have the most market share!

I wanna buy some stock in "Others" even though the companies that make up "Others" are mostly no-name white-box smartphone vendors in China and India.

But they have the most market share! Yay!
post #66 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Okay. How does that disprove his statement that 50% of iPhones were 5S’?


This is a mathematical question.  5S+5C+4S=51million.  S4=13million.  5S>S4>5C.  Are your math good enough to figure this out by yourself? 


Edited by tzeshan - 1/28/14 at 6:57pm
post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

Samsung also shipped something like 15mil note3 during that quarter. That's like 25 - 30mil high end phones which is more than the 5s. And this is during apple highest sales quarter.

Out of the big manufacturers apple has the lowest yoy growth which doesn't bode well for Apple.
 

I do think that Samsung is smart to try to marry their Galaxy Gear watch to their Note3.    It will probably take them a few generations to make it decent, but at least they haven't waited to copy Apple.  I still think that the iPhone is the best phone, but there are there are many good mid tier android phones out there.

post #68 of 80
Originally Posted by tzeshan View Post
This is a mathematical question.  5S+5C+4S=51million.  S4=13million.  5S>S4>5C.  Are your math good enough to figure this out by yourself? 

 

What do any of those sentences have to do with it being impossible that 50% of iPhones were 5S’?

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post #69 of 80

You know, Apple fans that are consumers and not investors should be pissed at Apple for having higher profit margins than Samsung. Higher profit margins means that Apple ripped off its consumers more than Samsung did. Consumer gets ripped off, investor wins.

 

Even with Samsung's lower production costs from superior vertical integration, the per-unit cost of its high-end phones is higher than Apple's. Meaning, Samsung customers get more bang for their buck despite all the nonsense about "cheap plastic".

 

Apple outsources all its manufacturing, meaning higher production costs than Samsung, yet its profit margins are through the roof. Meaning, if you bought an Apple phone, you've just been loved up the rear real hard by Tim Cook & Co.

post #70 of 80
Originally Posted by RattyRattyT View Post
Higher profit margins means that Apple ripped off its consumers more than Samsung did.

 

Making a profit is “ripping people off”, huh?

 

See, that’s not how the world works.

 
Samsung customers get more bang for their buck

 

Abysmal customer service, zero software updates, wretched build quality, horrible battery life, even worse software performance, no security…

 

Yeah, that’s some bang.

 
 Apple outsources all its manufacturing

 

And to round it off, that’s wrong.

 

Just go away.

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post #71 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by RattyRattyT View Post

Samsung customers get more bang for their buck despite all the nonsense about "cheap plastic".

When you say 'bang for your buck' are you referring to 'Samsung bullshitting their customers bang', or 'real-world bang'?

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-caught-fudging-benchmarks-again-7000021432/

Being a Samsung fan seems worse, not only because they fudged their figures and deceived you, a paying customer, but also because your purchase just made a statement about your inability to recognise, not to mention afford, quality.
post #72 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RattyRattyT View Post

Samsung customers get more bang for their buck despite all the nonsense about "cheap plastic".

When you say 'bang for your buck' are you referring to 'Samsung bullshitting their customers bang', or 'real-world bang'?

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-caught-fudging-benchmarks-again-7000021432/

Being a Samsung fan seems worse, not only because they fudged their figures and deceived you, a paying customer, but also because your purchase just made a statement about your inability to recognise, not to mention afford, quality.

That's not fudging. Technically there is nothing wrong with it since the benchmark is gotten by the phone hardware and not some made up figures. Whether it is ethical to specially tune the hardware for bechmark is open to debate.

Under most normal use the chipset is never stressed to the benchmark level. So this is really a moot point.
post #73 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

That's not fudging. Technically there is nothing wrong with it...

Reality Distortion Field: Now available on Android.
post #74 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

Reality Distortion Field: Now available on Android.

Took long enough too. It's been available for a long time on other platforms. 1biggrin.gif
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post #75 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by zerobim08 View Post

Whether it is ethical to specially tune the hardware for bechmark is open to debate..

It kinda defeats the purpose of bench-marking doesn't it? Perhaps they should look to MLB for inspiration, assess a 100+ game suspension for doping.

I do like that Anandtech tweeked the tests and won't reveal the change detail, helping to even the playing field. There's only two companies that apparently hadn't been scamming the results: Apple and Motorola
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post #76 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by RattyRattyT View Post

You know, Apple fans that are consumers and not investors should be pissed at Apple for having higher profit margins than Samsung. Higher profit margins means that Apple ripped off its consumers more than Samsung did. Consumer gets ripped off, investor wins.

Even with Samsung's lower production costs from superior vertical integration, the per-unit cost of its high-end phones is higher than Apple's. Meaning, Samsung customers get more bang for their buck despite all the nonsense about "cheap plastic".

Apple outsources all its manufacturing, meaning higher production costs than Samsung, yet its profit margins are through the roof. Meaning, if you bought an Apple phone, you've just been loved up the rear real hard by Tim Cook & Co.

Customers are willing to pay the price to get Apple products. So they aren't getting ripped off.
post #77 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Making a profit is “ripping people off”, huh?

See, that’s not how the world works.

Unless its a carrier. lol.gif
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post #78 of 80
I apologise if this is not a place for this but I need help.
I have a NatWest account which I bought shares Apple shares natWest does not put them in paper former need to transfer into American bank with English collections so I can have it transferred into paper format
Can anyone help please
I apologise I am dyslexic so struggling to find The right help
post #79 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by comley View Post

I apologise if this is not a place for this but I need help.
I have a NatWest account which I bought shares Apple shares natWest does not put them in paper former need to transfer into American bank with English collections so I can have it transferred into paper format
Can anyone help please
I apologise I am dyslexic so struggling to find The right help

This is not the thread for this kind of question, but why don't you open an account with a firm like Charles Schwab or something? You could have your stock ownership transferred, but as far as giving you a physical stock certificate I am not sure about that.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #80 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

This is not the thread for this kind of question, but why don't you open an account with a firm like Charles Schwab or something? You could have your stock ownership transferred, but as far as giving you a physical stock certificate I am not sure about that.

Sorry and thank you
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