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Carl Icahn invests another $500M in Apple after shares slide - Page 2

post #41 of 80

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post #42 of 80

Angela Ahrendts should be promoted to Co-CEO.  She is a marketing genius and knows how to talk the talk and take no prisoners.  Keep Cook as the Co-CEO but focused on the operations side.  They really need to get rid of Openhimer as CFO.  Dude is useless and his accounting 'tricks' are hurting the stock such as deferred large chunks of revenue for free software.  

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post #43 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Angela Ahrendts should be promoted to Co-CEO.  She is a marketing genius and knows how to talk the talk and take no prisoners.  Keep Cook as the Co-CEO but focused on the operations side.  They really need to get rid of Openhimer as CFO.  Dude is useless and his accounting 'tricks' are hurting the stock such as deferred large chunks of revenue for free software.  


Co-CEOs? Your nuts. Also how about we let Ahrendts settle in before we proclaim her CEO material.
post #44 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Angela Ahrendts should be promoted to Co-CEO.  She is a marketing genius and knows how to talk the talk and take no prisoners.  Keep Cook as the Co-CEO but focused on the operations side.  They really need to get rid of Openhimer as CFO.  Dude is useless and his accounting 'tricks' are hurting the stock such as deferred large chunks of revenue for free software.  



Hell Apple should hire you as co CEO as well. three heads are better than one, right? Frak, make everyone co-CEOs!
post #45 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post

You did not search enough. Before that though, I did not state Apple's credit rating had been lowered. I stated, Moody's warned Apple as follows...
(Quote cut)

My bad. I saw that quote, but I misread your post. I was arguing against something you never said...
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--e.e.c.
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Progress is a comfortable disease
--e.e.c.
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post #46 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Hell Apple should hire you as co CEO as well. three heads are better than one, right? Frak, make everyone co-CEOs!

 

More CEO-Bell!  >:D

post #47 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Angela Ahrendts should be promoted to Co-CEO.  She is a marketing genius and knows how to talk the talk and take no prisoners.  Keep Cook as the Co-CEO but focused on the operations side.  They really need to get rid of Openhimer as CFO.  Dude is useless and his accounting 'tricks' are hurting the stock such as deferred large chunks of revenue for free software.  

Steve Jobs warned about ceding the reins of a tech company to the marketing guys.

post #48 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraboy View Post
 

Steve Jobs warned about ceding the reins of a tech company to the marketing guys.

 

...and to the bean counters.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #49 of 80
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
Angela Ahrendts should be promoted to Co-CEO.

 

It worked SO well for Research In Motion!

 

NO.

post #50 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by tribalogical View Post
 

 

And that right there explains why he's a multi-billionaire and you probably aren't...(?)  :))

 

No offense intended. Just pointing out the obvious. (I'm not a billionaire either, by the way, but I get why he's buying in.)

 

Here's a super-mini explanation:

 

The market (and the competitive base) is GROWING. Apple is also GROWING.

 

Apple appears to be "losing market share" (only a marginally important measure where Apple is concerned) because the combined products of dozens of companies IN TOTAL are growing together faster than Apple can alone. No single company can keep pace with this growth, and still put out high quality, focused products, like Apple does. And yet, Apple is still the most valuable company in the world, and growing, still reaping the vast majority of profit in their space, which is also growing, and themselves growing at a healthy pace.

 

Apple is not Samsung. They don't do "junk". Samsung increases "market share" while losing profit.

 

Apple just had yet another record-breaking quarter. $13 BILLION in profit selling 77 MILLION iOS devices. In a single quarter.

 

That's why he's buying the stock. He sees where they are, and where they're going more in FACT than the fiction of "analyst land"...

 

OK?

I would argue that that is not an accurate statement when it comes to the reason why Icahn buys into a company. He buys in at high leaels so he can forces them to do something that will make him money in his time horizon. Most of the companies he bought into he tried to get a board position or forces them to deal with him directly or indirectly. At some point, he will have enough shares that Apple's board will have to listen to him and he does not have to have majority share or even a large % just enough so they can not ignore him. He is not buying Apple because he see a potential, he trying to rob them of the money they have, he obviously getting a nice dividend check each quarter now and he believe that if apple uses its money hoard to buy back stock that will some how drive the value of the stock to a point which he can then cash out.

 

However, if others who buy the stock do not see value in Apple growing the stock will continue to decline in value and the stock will stay stuck in the range it has been trading at. Apple is trading at 7 to 8 times earning, only the worst companies are trading that low, company which the market thinks will continue to grow and are losing money are trading double and triple times their earnings.

 

I Believe Icahn want to see Apple with no money in the bank at that point he accomplishes his goal, he never said he believe in what Apple product are doing in the market place. He is attempting to do what they call Financial Engineering, they are attempting to make it look good on paper so they can pull in the profits.


Edited by Maestro64 - 1/29/14 at 10:41am
post #51 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post
 

I would argue that that is not an accurate statement when it comes to the reason what Icahn buys into a company. He buys in a a high leave so he can forces them to do something that will make him money in his time horizon. Most of the company he bought into he tried to get a board position or forces them to deal with him directly or indirectly. At some point, he will have enough shares that Apple board will have to listen to him and he does not have to have majority share or even a large % just enough so they can not ignore him. He is not buying Apple because he see a potential, he trying to rob them of the money they have, he obviously getting a nice dividend check each quarter now and he believe that if apple uses it money hoard to buy back stock that will some how drive the value of the stock to a point which he can then cash out.

 

However, if others who buy the stock do not see value in Apple growing the stock will continue to decline in value and the stock will stay stuck in the range it has been trading at. Apple is trading at 7 to 8 times earning, only the worst companies are trading that low, company which the market thinks will continue to grow and are losing money are trading double and triple times their earnings.

 

I Believe Icahn want to see Apple which no money in the back at that point he accomplishes his goal, he never said they believe in what Apple product are doing in the market place. He is attempting to do what they call Financial Engineering, they are attempting to make it look good on paper so they can pull in the profits.

 

His $500 million buy in did doodlie squat to the share price, at Apple's level he's still a two bit player.

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post #52 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I’ve been thinking more about Tim Cook today and what his future as Apple CEO is. There’s no doubt that Cook lives and breathes Apple. Apple is his life. And I don’t think there’s anyone who cares more about Apple than Cook (similar to Ballmer at Microsoft). I get the sense that employees like Cook and that his direct reports like working for him. While product ideas might not come from Cook directly I don’t get the sense that he’s shooting down good ideas. I’ve never heard stories about Apple working on some cool project and Cook cancelling it. So it seems like Cook is fostering the right culture for innovation.

But then I listen to Cook when being interviewed by Walt Mossberg or his comments during earnings calls and it’s sometimes hard to listen to. Apple has been on defense now for two years with everyone and their brother questioning Apple’s strategies and whether the company is innovating, whether it can produce another blockbuster like the iPhone. And Cook just doesn’t seem to have a good answer for this. I listen to him on conference calls and never get much confidence from what he says. Like yesterday when he got the inevitable innovation questions. Cook should have knocked it out of the park. He should have said Apple is working on lots of cool stuff but they’re not going to bring it to market until it’s ready. They’re not going to rush a product to market just to feed the beast and the need for new, new new. And then say what Federighi and Ive have said in the past – that new and different is easy but better is hard, and Apple is interested in doing things that are better, not just new or different. Or like Ive said in the iPhone 5S video – that it’s not about technology for technology’s sake; it’s about doing something that enhances the user experience. Cook needs to do a better job of explaining why Apple doesn’t crank out new stuff left and right. Sure the market should already know this, but it seems these days they need to be reminded and reminded often. Perhaps Apple should have someone besides Cook doing these interviews and driving the conference calls. Someone that can do a better job of articulating Apple’s MO.

Hear, hear.

At a minimum, he needs a good speech/PR coach.
post #53 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Angela Ahrendts should be promoted to Co-CEO.  She is a marketing genius and knows how to talk the talk and take no prisoners.  Keep Cook as the Co-CEO but focused on the operations side.  They really need to get rid of Openhimer as CFO.  Dude is useless and his accounting 'tricks' are hurting the stock such as deferred large chunks of revenue for free software.  



Oppenheimer is way past his sell-by date. He's one of the most unimpressive CFOs I've seen in a large company. Apple has clearly outgrown him.
post #54 of 80
Only the rich can buy Apple stocks nowadays. The joe public have to settle with buying the products thus making the rich richer even.
post #55 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Only the rich can buy Apple stocks nowadays. The joe public have to settle with buying the products thus making the rich richer even.

We have a winner for the Bolshevik Award of the Day! Behead all them rich!!
post #56 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Only the rich can buy Apple stocks nowadays. The joe public have to settle with buying the products thus making the rich richer even.

 

The Joe Publics own the pension funds that provide the money for these guys to play with, big, fat cash cows milked at every turn.

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post #57 of 80
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post
Only the rich can buy Apple stocks nowadays. The joe public have to settle with buying the products thus making the rich richer even.

 

Any more lies? Tim Cook is a midget Canaanite nephilim incarnate or something?


Edited by Tallest Skil - 1/28/14 at 4:36pm
post #58 of 80

Thank god there is one powerful advocate for Apple's stock price.  Clearly Cook, Oppenheimer, the board and the PR department are completely inept at getting Apple to trade at a market multiple -- let alone at its true intrinsic value.

post #59 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Baker View Post
 

Thank god there is one powerful advocate for Apple's stock price.  Clearly Cook, Oppenheimer, the board and the PR department are completely inept at getting Apple to trade at a market multiple -- let alone at its true intrinsic value.

 

Maybe Apple should flood the market with 100 million $50 outright iPhones with 240x320 screens, 2 Megapixel cameras, 4 GB of storage, a removable battery, microSD slot, something like a Galaxy Neo running iOS.

 

Boom instant "marketshare", instant drop in profits, instant share price increase.

 

The most stupid thing is those idiots on Wall St would applaud this strategy.

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post #60 of 80
FYI the biggest asset management company in the world Blackrock just doubled their Apple stake to close to $25,000,000,000
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post #61 of 80
Thank you Tim Cook for making sure shareholders run for the exits four times a year. Activist shareholders are the only chance for Apple stock.
post #62 of 80
Do any of you really understand what Icahn is saying by wanting the Buyback? Reading the comments, I don't think many do. Stock buy back of under valued stocks will reduce float which will create value for long term investors. The only reason anyone would not want a buy back right now is if you think Apple is over valued right now. Which mean if you are shorting the stock. This is very simple economics and I really think many of you need to educate yourselves before bashing Icahn just because you read some propaganda. Most people against Icahn are ahorts or longs who have no idea how capital markets work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

I am not personally convince that if Apple bough back more share thes stock will be any higher. I think Icahn is playing a game which he can not win. Part of the reason the stock drop so much was due to the fact that the stock is heavily shorted so the stock had no choose but to go down, The analysis set the playing field for that failure to occur and nothing Icahn can do to stop it. I am now convinced after yesterday and seeing those kinds of numbers that Apple will never trade nothing of $600 again, unless they create a new market which no one is playing in right now.

Icahn already lost $300M on paper due to this and I do not expect him to make any significant amount of money on what he owns in Apple, well he collecting a large dividend check so maybe he'll break even in a few years.
post #63 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post
 


Oh... please share how he knows 'whats up'?

Did Apple share their plans with him? Hmmm no, that would be illegal (I hope). Does he have a mole on the inside, no that would be illegal too.  

Barring further evidence, IMO- this guy is either a master manipulator, aka flimflam man, aka confidence man, (which should be illegal but is usually not to the 1%'rs) or he's a plain ol crook.

Notice he does not say he knows what Apple will do but has 'confidence'. Yup... flimflam man. Too smart to be an outright crook.

 

He knows it´s a no-brainer. He knows that if you subtract cash + debt, your EV value of Apple is $310B with a FCF of $45B. That gives you a multiplier of 7.5x aka a no-brainer. He knows how to invest and make money. His ideas/opinions will remain his own, he does not have any leverage over Apple, and never will. But he knows it´s cheap, and is investing heavily in it. I wish Apple would invest heavily in Apple as well.
post #64 of 80
This is total bs and most of you suckers are totally game. The stock market is a ponzi scheme. You can't get out what you didn't put in.
post #65 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Oppenheimer is way past his sell-by date. He's one of the most unimpressive CFOs I've seen in a large company. Apple has clearly outgrown him.
Well he seems pretty good at providing guidance because Apple was dead on to their own guidance. Much more accurate than the "analysts" covering the stock.
post #66 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Oppenheimer is way past his sell-by date. He's one of the most unimpressive CFOs I've seen in a large company. Apple has clearly outgrown him.
I wouldn't be surprised if he "retires" soon.
post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Hear, hear.

At a minimum, he needs a good speech/PR coach.
Yes and Apple needs a better marketing department. Perhaps Apple needs to give Schiller another roll and bring in someone fresh on the marketing side. Maybe Apple will give Angela Ahrendts a more visible role.
post #68 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


Yes and Apple needs a better marketing department. Perhaps Apple needs to give Schiller another roll and bring in someone fresh on the marketing side. Maybe Apple will give Angela Ahrendts a more visible role.

 

Ahrendts should be CO-CEO to save face for Tim Cook.  Cook is an excellent operations guy but they need someone else to churn up the hype machine.  Ahrendts did an excellent job as CEO and basically raised a dead company from the grave.

 

Apple should STOP giving guidance. PERIOD.  Let the earnings report speak for itself.  All it does is give the manipulators on Wall Street two opportunities to smash the stock.  Even if earnings is good (EPS was up 5% YoY) they will just smash guidance.  So BS.  Google does not give guidance and Apple should not either.

 

They should also stop giving unit numbers.  No one else does.  All it can do is hurt the stock.  They should use backdoor channels to 'announce' unit numbers like IDC.  They need to pay these fuking marketing companies and buy them off.  Just like Samsung, MSFT and Google. does.  Fuk its time to play the game.  When Apple was growing 50% a year they didn't have to play games.  But now they are only growing 5-10% they need to get with it.


Edited by sog35 - 1/29/14 at 6:01am
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post #69 of 80

For all those who bashed Icahn we would be at $470 right now if it wasn't for him.

 

Seems like he does a better job at defending the stock than Tim Cook and entire Apple company.  Its ridiculous at this point.  Have some balls and defend the company!  I've been an advocate of Cook but the last 2 years have been lackluster.  If he fails to deliver this year it would be time to overhaul the entire Board of Directors and Executive Comittee.  New Chairman (WTF the guy works for Google), replace Gore, replace 90 year old guys, put Musk as chairman of the board.  Fire Cook, Fire Oppenhimer, fire CMO.

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post #70 of 80
Hey AAPL investors, how about a little cheese to go with that whine? I told you before and it bears repeating:
AAPL fast growth days are OVER as long as they keep offering the dividend. You can't have both (high flying stock price and a dividend). I don't care if Apple sells one quadrillion iPhones/Ipads, it shall continue to trade sideways at best. BA HA HA HA.
post #71 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Potsie Webber View Post

Hey AAPL investors, how about a little cheese to go with that whine? I told you before and it bears repeating:
AAPL fast growth days are OVER as long as they keep offering the dividend. You can't have both (high flying stock price and a dividend). I don't care if Apple sells one quadrillion iPhones/Ipads, it shall continue to trade sideways at best. BA HA HA HA.

 

you are wrong.  Apple had a dividend in the 80's.

 

The reason the stock isn't flying is because EPS has been stuck at -8% the last 5 quarters combined

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post #72 of 80
I post here another product of Zion those comments but you country is not freedom of speech. Now I'm anti S, what gives Google Walt Disney and find out how he had a hard time displaying his films. I do like apple products and I'm sorry if I offend!
An Arab who started a small company which is now Apple! See if I care!
post #73 of 80
Originally Posted by n057828 View Post
I post here another product of Zion those comments

 

Because it doesn’t have anything to do with anything.

 
…you country is not freedom of speech.

 

No, it is. Where you don’t have freedom of speech is here, on this website, where if you say nonsensical crap, don’t expect it to stay up.

 
Now I'm anti S, what gives Google Walt Disney and find out how he had a hard time displaying his films.

 

I’m to understand there’s a large Jewish influence at Disney these days, so any past accusations of anti-Semitism are basically void.

 

Not that they have anything whatsoever to do with any argument you’re making here, of course. In any respect, under any definition.

post #74 of 80
The market is so absurd. Apple had a ridiculous quarter...again. They are selling iPhones and iPads as fast as they can make them, and sold nearly a million more Macs than a year ago. But the quarter was "disappointing" because analysts "expected" more. If I had the cash, I'd buy too.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #75 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore View Post

Do any of you really understand what Icahn is saying by wanting the Buyback? Reading the comments, I don't think many do. Stock buy back of under valued stocks will reduce float which will create value for long term investors. The only reason anyone would not want a buy back right now is if you think Apple is over valued right now. Which mean if you are shorting the stock. This is very simple economics and I really think many of you need to educate yourselves before bashing Icahn just because you read some propaganda. Most people against Icahn are ahorts or longs who have no idea how capital markets work.

First I agree that if you believe your stock in undervalue and it mostly due to too much float in the stock then buy it back, however, they are plenty of companies who have been buying back verse reinvesting of paying dividends and long term it did nothing for the companies overall value, it just put more control of the stock into a small group of individuals which allowed them to force the company to do things they wanted.

 

Next I speak from direct experience from working at a company which Icahn got its hands on, and was successful at what he is attempting to do with Apple. He tried extremely hard to get a board position, forcing the company to implement a poison pill policy because they though  he could gain a controlling interest in the company. He got the company to use some of it cash balance to buy back stock, why, it is simple less stock in the market drives up his ownership, thus more control. In the end the company's Senior Management spend more time dealing with him and his demands than they spend trying to run the company which eventually was broken up and sold off in pieces and it a fraction of it former self. He does not focus on things which make a company strong he focuses on what is known as Financial Engineering, they play games with things which will prop up the stock value in a time period which allow him to cash out and leaving everyone else holding what is left.

 

If I though Icahn was going to make Apple a better company in the long haul I would not complain, I would be supportive, but that is not his goal, he trying to force their hands into a situation which will make him and only him money and he does not care what he leaves in his waste.

 

The other thing is which many do not realize, Icahn is not buy all this stock in the open market, there is no way in one day he can buy $500M of Apple stock unless he buying ever share that comes available, this would be bad for him, he would be driving the price up as other who also were trying to buy at the same time. He buying these share from large institutional group directly like retirement/pention funds and such which are required to buy and sell a stock when it either gains or loose certain % of the value they hold. This is what he did with Dell you swindle some retirement fund out of their Dell Stock at a low value and tried using it to force Micheal Dell to dell with him. If you have enough money you do not need to buy shares on the open market you can buy directly from the institution holding the shares.

 

Before you think Icahn is actually trying to help investors or Apple as well as Apple it self, you should do some research on Icahn and what he has done in the past to other companies

post #76 of 80
I am not going to post on this silly website and I'm going to del it. Good luck with it. Freedom my arse 500 million $ and brags I don't care all I say usa prints $ in 4 months in total if what Australia owns to the world and it's still strong! You get this bastard who brags he spent $500... To invest in Apple.
If he said I spent x amount in the poor oops tax right off. I don't care while the poor are out if work! Bye for now ahhhhaa
post #77 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

9to5Mac is reporting that Apple is testing a new version of Apple TV that combines ATV with Airport Express into one product. The focus of this new ATV would be gaming. Apple has also tested one with a TV tuner as well. This could be a very cool product. I know I'd buy one. It would be nice if they has something to announce before WWDC but my guess is that's where it would happen. Of course these are just rumors, but Apple did update their store and ATV is now its own product category rather than being buried inside the iPod category.

A TV-tuner model is pointless as the cable companies don't broadcast in-the-clear ATSC/DVB, and what you get OTA is maybe 2 channels unless you live in a major city. If it's something that can be added as part of SDR based tv/radio/satellite tuner, then fine. The main problem with cable is that 100% of the equipment is Motorola (now Arris), and Google owned it long enough that it would have made sense for them, but they threw it away.

Apple's strength lies in it's user-friendliness, even if it makes nerds cry. It would make complete sense for Apple to buy Nintendo, or partner with Nintendo to put virtual console on their Apple TV device. Like, actually access and play their already-purchased VC titles from the 3DS and Wii/WiiU on their iOS devices.
post #78 of 80

Icahn is a tool and has been for a long time. This is the same idiot that thought selling Yahoo! to Microsoft was a great idea! Stay out of tech Icahn! His interests in companies is not how to push them to be great but to cash them out. I wonder what Jobs would say to this idiot.

 

Tim Cooks needs to man up to Wall Street. I welcome Apple stock buybacks I would like see them have a secret long term plan on going private. The problem with being a publicly traded company is that every damn investor thinks he/she has the next best idea.

post #79 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techboy View Post
 

Icahn is a tool...

 

Monkey Wrench or Screwdriver?

post #80 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Ahrendts should be CO-CEO to save face for Tim Cook.  Cook is an excellent operations guy but they need someone else to churn up the hype machine.  Ahrendts did an excellent job as CEO and basically raised a dead company from the grave.

 

Apple should STOP giving guidance. PERIOD.  Let the earnings report speak for itself.  All it does is give the manipulators on Wall Street two opportunities to smash the stock.  Even if earnings is good (EPS was up 5% YoY) they will just smash guidance.  So BS.  Google does not give guidance and Apple should not either.

 

They should also stop giving unit numbers.  No one else does.  All it can do is hurt the stock.  They should use backdoor channels to 'announce' unit numbers like IDC.  They need to pay these fuking marketing companies and buy them off.  Just like Samsung, MSFT and Google. does.  Fuk its time to play the game.  When Apple was growing 50% a year they didn't have to play games.  But now they are only growing 5-10% they need to get with it.

Exactly! Very well said.

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