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Apple TV gains its own shopping category in Apple's online store - Page 2

post #41 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



 Sadly this Boxee remote will not work with the Apple TV :-(

Looks like a nice remote. For me the Apple one is just too small and the app is too sensitive and slow to get going when you are watching. The only thing I would change on the Boxee one would be to put the three front buttons in a horizontal row so there is no need to change grip to press the buttons.

 

On another note - how long before 'shop iPod' will disappear?

post #42 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

I've been living with Apple TVs about 3 years now and the main complaint i've got about it is boy do I hate that included remote. While the remote looks nice and makes a great first impression, the initial "wow it's so tiny, and it's aluminium" honeymoon period eventually wears off and the grim reality of the fact that it not only is crappy old IR technology, but additionally has a miserably-narrow and somewhat weak signal band for an IR remote sets in.

And don't get me started on that "remote app". By the time I've actually gotten the app opened I'm bored. Apple needs to produce a decent bluetooth keyboard remote. And I'm mean ASAP! And no, I'm not talking about Apple's bluetooth keyboard on my sofa or ottoman. I'm talking about something along the lines of this:



Even as an optional extra I'd buy something like this in a heartbeat. Perhaps this is a good Kickstarted project for someone? Because if I knew the first thing to do and had the facilities I'd be producing the blasted thing. Sadly this Boxee remote will not work with the Apple TV :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Hate the navigation buttons on the remote. Too easy to mis hit. I like the design/feel of the remote.

My biggest issue that when Airplaying from my brand new iMac to my brand new appletv via my brand new Airport extreme (all direct wired), the mouse on the iMac becomes extremely unresponsive. 

It's tolerable when playing a movie but would be useless for any sort of interactive presentation. A reboot solves the issue for a short period and it reappears again fairly quickly.

Have you tried programming your cable/satellite/TV remote? I've recently programmed my DirecTV remote and it works great.
post #43 of 106

Have 3 Apple TV's hooked up at home…Love this insanely great product.

One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

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One thought he was invincible... the other thought he could fly.

They were both wrong.

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post #44 of 106
Apple TV NEEDS:

IP control with drivers for all home automation stuff. For ALL its products. DUH WTF are these guys doing lately with $160billion dollars.

A simpler way to enter text is a MUST.

While they are at it, itunes needs an IP based remote interface to simplify control by outside devices. Apple is simply being jerks at this point not having blu-ray capability. It is a slap in the face to home theater enthusiasts.

Who here would not want apple TV simply licensed out to bluray manufacturers like HULU and VUDU already do...

The folks at apple clearly ate neither audiophiles nor videophiles which does NOT fit with the Tim Cool mantra of making the "best product" possible.
post #45 of 106

I am actually interested in the pricing of the Apple TV if it does receive a significant update that includes console like gaming features.  Would it sell more than $400 because I bet it will.  I would be surprised if it sells any lower than this price

post #46 of 106
What I don't care for on the remote app is that it always opens to the wrong screen, because my TV and computer are in the same room. Which also creates a problem with using the aluminum remote as it will increase the volume and start to play something on the computer and I am trying to move the cursor on the TV screen. Sheesh!
post #47 of 106
To those complaining about the remote: have you tried programming a universal remote instead? I use the same remote that operates my tv, cable box and PS4. It works great.
post #48 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post
 

I am actually interested in the pricing of the Apple TV if it does receive a significant update that includes console like gaming features.  Would it sell more than $400 because I bet it will.  I would be surprised if it sells any lower than this price

$400 sounds a bit on the high side. 

 

Toss in a A7 which has more than enough Oomph for games.   Add the Routing functionality and 16GB of NAND storage (should cost no more than the 8GB that Gen 3 comes with)  

 

I'm thinking $199-249  

 

Apple keeps Gen 3 around at $99 for those that don't need the extra features. 

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post #49 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonyo View Post
 

 

You may actually have a network issue. If your iMac and the Apple TV are both connected via ethernet cable, make sure that neither is also connected via wifi at the same time. Also make sure you don't have any weird loops in your network, like a cable from one port back to another port on the same router. Weird stuff like that can cause network traffic chaos that you can't see other than some devices on the network will get "busier" dealing with network stuff, causing other things to slow down, like UI response.

Definitely WIFI disabled on both iMac and appleTV and very simple cabling. The video plays fine, no stuttering etc. iMac shows no excessive cpu utilization, it's just the iMac mouse becomes totally unresponsive other than that everything behaves fine.

 

I do use multi user a lot, all 4 of us have accounts with something running (browser usually). That's the only possible "cause" I can think of. As I say after reboot (single user active) it is fine. Some time later (and I haven't bothered to correlate this with number of users) it goes wonky again.

post #50 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post

I am actually interested in the pricing of the Apple TV if it does receive a significant update that includes console like gaming features.  Would it sell more than $400 because I bet it will.  I would be surprised if it sells any lower than this price

Think of it as the electronic equivalent of a headless iPad Air without Cell radios, Battery, Sensors, GPS...

The iPad Air has a BOM cost of $274.

http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/New-iPad-Air-Costs-Less-to-Make-Than-Third-Generation-iPad-Model-,IHS-Teardown-Reveals.aspx


Remove costs of:
   $90 Display
   $43 Touch
     $9 Camera
   $10 User Interface Sensors
   $19 Battery
     $7 Power Management
   $20 Mechanical / Electromechanical
$198


So, the SWAG BOM costs for a nAppleTV would be $274 - $198 == $76

With an implied margin of $49%, the 16GB nAppleTV could retail for less than $150.



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post #51 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by WisdomSeed View Post

What I don't care for on the remote app is that it always opens to the wrong screen, because my TV and computer are in the same room. Which also creates a problem with using the aluminum remote as it will increase the volume and start to play something on the computer and I am trying to move the cursor on the TV screen. Sheesh!

You can pair individual remotes with individual devices (AppleTV, Computer, etc.).
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post #52 of 106
I don't just mean iOS games but Fifa, COD or Crisis i.e. Graphically intense games. If PS4 sells for $400 Apple maybe will sell even more expensive to match the specs. I don't think A7 is powerful enough to run these games
post #53 of 106
The remote really does suck. The bigger your media library gets the worse it is too. Also, the more channels they add the worse navigation gets. It's way overdue for a complete makeover of the UI. The one saving grace is that it is fairly ease to teach a universal remote to control the Apple TV.
post #54 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post

I don't just mean iOS games but Fifa, COD or Crisis i.e. Graphically intense games. If PS4 sells for $400 Apple maybe will sell even more expensive to match the specs. I don't think A7 is powerful enough to run these games

I posted the following to an earlier thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The point I was making is that iPhone users with existing games on their iPhones will be the major market for a new Apple TV which can run their existing games. Apple are not in the business of selling other peoples hardware. A small fraction of iPhone sales in any month converting to Apple TV as well and you have a market much bigger than the existing console market.

You still don't get it. I am an iPhone owner and also own an iPad and a PS4. What possible reason would any console owner and I am including all PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One, and Wii which combined is a lot of people, ever have to buy an AppleTV if they already have one of those consoles?

Apple makes a version of iTunes for Windows PC's and you completely ignored that. If they can make a version for Windows then why not an app for game consoles? Apple would make money off selling content on these platforms just like they do on an AppleTV. 

What if an AppleTV could offer everything a PS4 or Xbox One has plus...
  • More games
  • Better games
  • Better performance
  • The Apple ecosystem

Here's a quote from an article from June 2013, discussing the PS and Xbox upgrades.

Quote:
The Why:

To get at why Microsoft and Sony chose AMD, you need to start with the content needs. Both makers were looking for a way to increase the console “footprint”, increase the amount of apps, and lower the cost of software development. The Xbox One and the PS4 are designed to do a lot more than games. They designed the consoles to be the future hub for all home entertainment and home automation and control. To effectively do this, they will need hundreds of complex apps that are relatively straight-forward to code. Therefore, you need to start with an application processor architecture that supports this, and it’s not Power architecture.

The apps processors that powers today’s Xbox 360 and the PS3 are based on the Power architecture. It delivered decent performance seven years ago, but it is much more difficult to program than the ARM (ARM Holdings PLC), MIPS (Imagination Technologies Group PLC), or X86 (AMD and Intel INTC -0.71%). Additionally, the technological investment in ARM, MIPS and X86 architectures and ecosystems dwarfed PowerPC over the last decade, rendering Power obsolete for the required performance per watt. In a world where your console needs to have as many apps as your smartphone, the only answer was ARM, MIPS or X86.


Quote:
The What:

My sources have confirmed for me that both Sony and Microsoft felt that MIPS didn’t have the right size developer ecosystem or the horsepower to power the new consoles. Then it came down to ARM versus X86 architecture. I am told there was a technical “bake-off”, where prototype silicon was tested against each other across a myriad of application-based and synthetic benchmarks. At the end of the bake-off, ARM was deemed as not having the right kind of horsepower and that its 64-bit architecture wasn’t ready soon enough. 64-bit was important as it maximized memory addressability, and the next gen console needed to run multiple apps, operating systems and hypervisors. ARM-based architectures will soon get as powerful as AMD’s Jaguar cores, but not when Sony or Microsoft needed them for their new consoles.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickmoorhead/2013/06/26/the-real-reasons-microsoft-and-sony-chose-amd-for-consoles/


ARM-based architectures will soon get as powerful as AMD’s Jaguar cores...

I suspect that that day will have arrived with an A7X APU on an AppleTV.
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post #55 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post

I don't just mean iOS games but Fifa, COD or Crisis i.e. Graphically intense games. If PS4 sells for $400 Apple maybe will sell even more expensive to match the specs. I don't think A7 is powerful enough to run these games

I believe A7 gets around 50fps on GLBench Egypt HD 1080p offscreen vs close to 1000fps from dedicated graphics cards from folks like ATI.

So "technically" it could run some of those games but I doubt that the level of sophistication of detail would be anywhere comparable to a console using an ATI/NVidia device.

post #56 of 106
Imagine Apple TV as a gaming console - with your whole catalog of games available through iCloud.

Imagine that priced below $300.

Now, turn around and look at Sony and Microsoft. Yep, collective heart attacks!
post #57 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

... While the remote looks nice and makes a great first impression, the initial "wow it's so tiny, and it's aluminium" honeymoon period eventually wears off...

And don't get me started on that "remote app". By the time I've actually gotten the app opened I'm bored. Apple needs to produce a decent bluetooth keyboard remote. And I'm mean ASAP! And no, I'm not talking about Apple's bluetooth keyboard on my sofa or ottoman....
 :-(

 

I whole heartedly agree. I have always felt frustrated by not only the remote but by the GUI and how the remote interacts with the GUI. A bluetooth keyboard has certainly improved matters, but hardly 'solved' it.

 

I am led to believe that when Jobs said about the TV, "I finally cracked it," that something is in the pipe line waiting to come out when the time is right.

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post #58 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post

Imagine Apple TV as a gaming console - with your whole catalog of games available through iCloud.

Imagine that priced below $300.

Now, turn around and look at Sony and Microsoft. Yep, collective heart attacks!

Yeah...

All your games on iCloud...

And the most-recently-used (played) games automatically trickle down to iTunes where they can be quickly accessed and cross-loaded to the AppleTV...

iTunes already does this with iCloud content!


And, As I indicated in an earlier post, Apple could retail this box at $150 with 49% margin!
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post #59 of 106
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post
Imagine Apple TV as a gaming console - with your whole catalog of games available through iCloud.

 

Heart attacks from people having to redownload their games every time they want to play them? I don’t think so.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #60 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazar View Post

Who here would not want apple TV simply licensed out to bluray manufacturers like HULU and VUDU already do...

That's funny. But you forgot your "/sarcasm" tag.
post #61 of 106

A new AppleTV would not need to compete with the type of games on the PS4. It would simply need to be able to play all current games on iOS as fast if not faster than the iPhone 5s or iPad Air. Many games would not translate well to a big screen but most would. I would love to play Clash of Clans. Modern War, Kingdom Age and many others on my 70" TV with a decent bluetooth controller. 

post #62 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by LJC94512 View Post

If PS4 sells for $400.....

And that's at a loss.
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post #63 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Heart attacks from people having to redownload their games every time they want to play them? I don’t think so.

My point: Apple TV could become a gaming console with a huge catalogue of games already for sale - and already owned by millions of consumers. Also, these games are fairly cheap.

There are downsides, but you have to admit that it could disrupt the console market a lot!
post #64 of 106
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post
My point: Apple TV could become a gaming console with a huge catalogue of games already for sale - and already owned by millions of consumers. Also, these games are fairly cheap.

 

Sure thing. In fact, this can happen right now. AirPlay.

 

Apple needs to make AirPlay a foundational API. Make it impossible for an app to be made without its support. Make it impossible to selectively support it.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #65 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post

My point: Apple TV could become a gaming console with a huge catalogue of games already for sale - and already owned by millions of consumers. Also, these games are fairly cheap.

There are downsides, but you have to admit that it could disrupt the console market a lot!

I really don't want to play Angry Birds, Ski Safari, or Temple Run on a big screen using a controller.
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post #66 of 106
I like beans AppleTVs...

Beans ATVs are the musical fruit...

The more you eat have, the more you toot games you play...

The more you toot play, the better you feel...

So, Let's have beans ATVs at every TV!


...I can't believe I just did that!
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post #67 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I really don't want to play Angry Birds, Ski Safari, or Temple Run on a big screen using a controller.

How about Need for Speed?
post #68 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post

How about Need for Speed?

I'd rather play the full console version than one made for a mobile device.
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post #69 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I'd rather play the full console version than one made for a mobile device.

Yep - but some would enjoy playing these games at a fraction of the cost on PS4/Xbox.

Also, developers would begin to develop games for Apple TV.
post #70 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
My point: Apple TV could become a gaming console with a huge catalogue of games already for sale - and already owned by millions of consumers. Also, these games are fairly cheap.

Sure thing. In fact, this can happen right now. AirPlay.

Don't use Airplay much, do you?
post #71 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post

Yep - but some would enjoy playing these games at a fraction of the cost on PS4/Xbox.

Also, developers would begin to develop games for Apple TV.

So it can have a plethora of in-app purchases that ultimately make it more expensive? I'd rather pay the full nut once than get nickel and dimed to death. I'm not doubting that they can make a decent gaming device but would it disrupt the console market? Maybe, but they're doing a fine job disrupting themselves.
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post #72 of 106

The Apple TV is a great product. I get a fair amount of use out of it. It has its quirks but I think that it's a good start.

 

To those that have suggested gaming, it's an interesting concept but I think Apple is more focused on casual gaming. There's no point in going head to head with hardcore gaming consoles from Microsoft and Sony. At least, I don't think there is. The market is relatively small compared to the casual gaming market in terms of user base. Now, going after the market that Nintendo has been holding on to for forever, that is probably right up there with where Apple operates. The barrier is to entry is easier. Less hardware requirements, broader market appeal, there's already a huge ecosystem based around developing casual games, and about a half a dozen other reasons why.

 

Combining Airport Express with the Apple TV seems somewhat feasible, depending on what impact it would have on costs. Others have suggested two products. The current model plus an Apple TV combined with the Airport Express. That's also pretty reasonable.

 

The other stuff about the UI needing a refresh are givens I think.

 

Ultimately, I think Apple TV getting its own section is a sign that Apple is about to make its move. The SuperBowl a week after the 30th anniversary of the Mac would be poetic. 

post #73 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post

My point: Apple TV could become a gaming console with a huge catalogue of games already for sale - and already owned by millions of consumers. Also, these games are fairly cheap.

There are downsides, but you have to admit that it could disrupt the console market a lot!

I really don't want to play Angry Birds, Ski Safari, or Temple Run on a big screen using a controller.

How about Infinity Blade III...

To paraphrase: "The A7 [and iOS 7] eats everything else for lunch".

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post #74 of 106
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
Don't use Airplay much, do you?

 

Enough to know that lag isn’t an issue worth whining about, nor one that can’t be solved.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #75 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Pinto View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

I'd rather play the full console version than one made for a mobile device.

Yep - but some would enjoy playing these games at a fraction of the cost on PS4/Xbox.

Also, developers would begin to develop games for Apple TV.

Yeah... The A7 and iOS7 have been out for ~ 4 months... what's takin' 'em so long?
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post #76 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Quote:
Don't use Airplay much, do you?

Enough to know that lag isn’t an issue worth whining about, nor one that can’t be solved.

If it was so simple, why hasn't Apple solved it yet?
post #77 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How about Infinity Blade III...

To paraphrase: "The A7 [and iOS 7] eats everything else for lunch".


Infinity Blade lll? Yes but how many games are like that?
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post #78 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


If it was so simple, why hasn't Apple solved it yet?

Because no one gives a shit if there's a 10ms lag?

post #79 of 106
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
If it was so simple, why hasn't Apple solved it yet?

 

I said nothing about it being simple. I said it was solvable.

 

Seems they may be close, if the rumor’s right.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #80 of 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Infinity Blade lll? Yes but how many games are like that?

 

I think because there hasn't been as much of an incentive. Infinity Blade is a solid game on a technical level that shows the capabilities of the platform. I think that if Apple really does want to do gaming on the TV, developers will have an incentive to push the limits beyond Angry Birds when it comes to casual gaming and a bit more intense games like Infinity Blade. Although is memory serves, Infinity Blade was actually quite lucrative for chair.

 

I'm not much of a gamer anymore and I know that launch titles on consoles aren't really indicative of where the platform is going, but I remember seeing that a somewhat casual game, Resogun, was getting a lot of love on the PS4 at launch. I think there is a huge market for casual games on the TV, not looking at Nintendo's issues with the Wii U, which hasn't done as well for a variety of reasons.

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