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Organizational strife said to bedevil Apple's iOS in the Car intiative

post #1 of 84
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Apple's hardware-oriented corporate culture has been responsible for delays that have plagued the rollout of the company's automotive strategy, a new report suggests.

iOS in the Car


Apple executives "didn't quite know what to do" with the iOS in the Car program, according to The Information's Jessica E. Lessin. The disconnect is attributed primarily to overarching organizational issues that are said to place pressure on non-hardware products that do not fit within existing teams.

Even in the lead-up to iOS in the Car's high-profile unveiling at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference last June, executives were reportedly still unsure about the product's future. The iOS in the Car group was forced to "lobby hard" for stage time, sources told the publication.

Following that announcement, Apple CEO Tim Cook called the initiative "very, very important" and a "key focus" for the company heading into 2014. Despite those assurances, however, development appears to have remained slow.

Alliances with major manufacturers like Mercedes-Benz and Ferrari have failed to bear fruit thus far, and announcements from other automakers have been few and far between. Only Apple's Siri Eyes Free functionality has made it into production vehicles.

The news comes as rival Google is positioning its Android operating system as an alternative for in-car 'infotainment' systems. The Mountain View, Calif.-based company announced partnerships with automakers including Audi, Hyundai, Honda, and General Motors earlier this month at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas.
post #2 of 84
This is it? Or all that you get without paying?
post #3 of 84
Seems to be par for the course these days. At some point the Apple management need to focus and get some fire in their bellies again and start kicking some ass. Sleepy time in Cupertino will lead to a slow fade.
post #4 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post

Seems to be par for the course these days. At some point the Apple management need to focus and get some fire in their bellies again and start kicking some ass. Sleepy time in Cupertino will lead to a slow fade.
What sleepy time?
post #5 of 84
"News"? No sources that I can see.
post #6 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


What sleepy time?

The sleepy time that anyone can see a mile away if they pay attention and their loyalties aren't so far ingrained in one company that they overlook obvious missteps. The sleepy time of not realizing that you can't control each and every aspect of every single product and that control has a point or curve where once reached experiences diminishing returns. If Apple would stop trying to control every single minute thing and worry about the only control that truly matters which is overall quality control they would be in a better place. Here is what's going to happen... iOS in the car WILL indeed be launched, it will then be received with lukewarm fan fair... it will be 'neat' for a bit and then because of the way Apple thinks and their corporate culture it won't go far because essentially carmakers are going to need to concede to add the functionality into their already functioning in-dash products which essentially perform all the functions that iOS in the car does but with an interface that's as pretty. THEN Google will start it's onslaught and through their partnerships with these same manufacturers will get Android as the actual operating on the in-dash units themselves. Rather than just essentially a plugin which beams or streams iOS data from the iPhone onto in-dash unit, Googles partnership will see Android actually installed directly on those units. This coupled with Googles approach to be less open and less controlling will give way to a LOT of developer support for the in-dash unit to customize the interface and make it as pretty and/or informative as said developer imagines and the users/customers of these in-dash units will have true choice over the look of their dash, the functionality, and the information they are presented. Apple all the while will be Apple and they will control their little app plugin and give the users no options for how it looks, no options for the information displayed, and real options for developers to tap into it's potential (just like with Apple TV). At the end of the day this will play out just like iOS vs. Android. iOS in the car will have a sizable following but Googles initiative will dominate the industry because they work WITH people instead of arrogantly always presuming on people and making an environment that feels like even though you partner with them, you really are just working FOR them and that they know best, always, at all times, even when they don't.

post #7 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

"News"? No sources that I can see.

 

Maybe it is in the linked article but it's behind a paywall.

post #8 of 84

I don't think Apple is a very good fit for this project anyway. In car systems need to be highly integrated with all the onboard sensors and vehicle safety features most of which has nothing to do with iOS. It is no surprise that they are having a difficult time because Apple historically doesn't work well with others. Unless they control a product from top to bottom, hardware and software they are out of their element.

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post #9 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by itpromike View Post

your post would have been easier to read with paragraphs. I still don't get how open vs closed equates to sleepy time. iOS is never going to be Android. Some of us are actually happy about that.
post #10 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by itpromike View Post
 

The sleepy time that anyone can see a mile away if they pay attention and their loyalties aren't so far ingrained in one company that they overlook obvious missteps. The sleepy time of not realizing that you can't control each and every aspect of every single product and that control has a point or curve where once reached experiences diminishing returns. If Apple would stop trying to control every single minute thing and worry about the only control that truly matters which is overall quality control they would be in a better place. Here is what's going to happen... iOS in the car WILL indeed be launched, it will then be received with lukewarm fan fair... it will be 'neat' for a bit and then because of the way Apple thinks and their corporate culture it won't go far because essentially carmakers are going to need to concede to add the functionality into their already functioning in-dash products which essentially perform all the functions that iOS in the car does but with an interface that's as pretty. THEN Google will start it's onslaught and through their partnerships with these same manufacturers will get Android as the actual operating on the in-dash units themselves. Rather than just essentially a plugin which beams or streams iOS data from the iPhone onto in-dash unit, Googles partnership will see Android actually installed directly on those units. This coupled with Googles approach to be less open and less controlling will give way to a LOT of developer support for the in-dash unit to customize the interface and make it as pretty and/or informative as said developer imagines and the users/customers of these in-dash units will have true choice over the look of their dash, the functionality, and the information they are presented. Apple all the while will be Apple and they will control their little app plugin and give the users no options for how it looks, no options for the information displayed, and real options for developers to tap into it's potential (just like with Apple TV). At the end of the day this will play out just like iOS vs. Android. iOS in the car will have a sizable following but Googles initiative will dominate the industry because they work WITH people instead of arrogantly always presuming on people and making an environment that feels like even though you partner with them, you really are just working FOR them and that they know best, always, at all times, even when they don't.

 

You want Apple to be more like microsoft...? Let them take their time to perfect whatever it is they are doing. In the end it will play out just like iOS and Android. People will pay to have iOS in the car, and a ton of cars will have the android equivalent just because its there, but nobody really uses it. 

post #11 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't think Apple is a very good fit for this project anyway. In car systems need to be highly integrated with all the onboard sensors and vehicle safety features most of which has nothing to do with iOS. It is no surprise that they are having a difficult time because Apple historically doesn't work well with others. Unless they control a product from top to bottom, hardware and software they are out of their element.
They announced it at WWDC. They damn well better be working on something. Otherwise they should never have announced it in the first place.
post #12 of 84

Right.  So the answer is to buy Tesla.  Re-design it so that it is truly great and Apple opens up a huge new front.

post #13 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post

Right.  So the answer is to buy Tesla.  Re-design it so that it is truly great and Apple opens up a huge new front.
Yeah because Apple has all this experience designing cars. 1oyvey.gif
post #14 of 84

Apple TV like device connected to a touchscreen hardwired into a dash.

 

Keep it simple.

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post #15 of 84
Sounds a very difficult one for Apple. They are used to a master servant type relationship yet car manufacturers are normally the master.
Maybe the reason so many are choosing Android is that they gain enough control themselves to be able to go the Kindle Fire type route if ever need be..
post #16 of 84
I'd like to see Apple bring out some sort of "Car Pad". An iPad mini-esque hardware product they would sell directly to car manufacturers with a screen, an FM radio and iPhone connectivity capabilities. It wouldn't be an iPad and it wouldn't have an App Store, but it would be a capacitive touch screen. Why? Because Apple is a hardware company and when it comes to this stuff car companies are out of their depth. The only issue I for see with this system is car companies being too dumb to let Apple handle this stuff. Seriously, it's a no brainier. It allows car companies access to the best in class car entertainment system, while they lean on their strengths and focus on what they are good at doing: building cars.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #17 of 84
Originally Posted by bennettvista View Post
Seems to be par for the course these days.

 

Here’s your problem: You’re playing golf, Apple is playing football.

 

Originally Posted by itpromike View Post
The sleepy time of not realizing that you cant control each and every aspect of every single product

 

Guess you missed the last, oh, THIRTY-SEVEN YEARS.

 
…Android as the actual operating…

 

And tens of millions of cars suddenly won’t drive faster than 25 or let you make a right turn without viewing an ad first.

 
Rather than just essentially a plugin which beams or streams iOS data from the iPhone onto in-dash unit, Googles partnership will see Android actually installed directly on those units.

 

Yeah! Apple should stop trying to control things and let Google control things even more!

 
…Googles initiative will dominate the industry because they work WITH people…

 

You’ve lost it.

 

Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Yeah because Apple has all this experience designing cars. 1oyvey.gif

 

So? They had experience designing music players, phones, and tablets?

Originally posted by Marvin

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #18 of 84
Let me add my six-pence here.

I for one very much want to see my Apple Maps pushed up as well as some other features. However, I agree with others that Apple is not a good fit for the end-to-end. The core needs to be completely self contained. Ideally, you will see google's effort as the basis and support for Apple's integration laid on top. I say this because Apple's system requires there to be a core system already in place and seems not to be meant as the full encapsulating piece of tech.
post #19 of 84
I don't know if this is abnormal. If the literature are right, Steve Jobs always challenge and debate to make sure they have the right product.

I don't know if they want to take over the car OS, the car manufacturers use very primitive hardware. What Apple may want to do is to make sure their services can be transferred over in a pristine and secure way.

No point rolling out something for the car and give the hackers a back door.

If they add more new hardware to the car, iOS can always talk to these additional hardware without disrupting the car OS.

Even if the car comes with Android or better yet, some sort of in-car standards, as long as it coexists nicely with all my assets in the iOS world, I don't really care. Heck some of them already run other OSes. Stop hating on Android or WinOS. They are just software.

Developers can always write iOS app that works in the car. If they indeed do it for ATV, then they can certainly do it for iOS in the car. The developers probably don't have to worry about h/w performance too.
Edited by patsu - 1/28/14 at 3:00pm
post #20 of 84
I am more interested to hear what Apple has in store for iOS on a BIKE!
post #21 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

I am more interested to hear what Apple has in store for iOS on a BIKE!

Me too !

Come to think of it, it's like TV.

Even if Samsung TV comes with smart OS, I will still use AppleTV because it's just a more natural extension of my other so called digital lifestyle preferences.

Of course there will be iOS apps. If the rumours are correct, the ATV will have apps. iOS in the car looks similar in requirements to me. They already have the new Text kit that can accommodate different text styling and screen layout in iOS7 right ?

Frankly, if there is an aftermarket iOS in the car kit, I will probably get it over the car vendor's solution. The latter tend to overcharge. So the car manufacturers should throw in some iOS goodies for me. :-)
Edited by patsu - 1/28/14 at 3:12pm
post #22 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

I don't think Apple is a very good fit for this project anyway. In car systems need to be highly integrated with all the onboard sensors and vehicle safety features most of which has nothing to do with iOS. It is no surprise that they are having a difficult time because Apple historically doesn't work well with others. Unless they control a product from top to bottom, hardware and software they are out of their element.

I whole heartily agree. Apple is a hardware company first. Their software is to support the hardware. That's why they give away a lot of the software for free. That's why I never liked the idea from the moment I heard of it. I'm afraid this will end very badly for Apple.

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post #23 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post

I whole heartily agree. Apple is a hardware company first. Their software is to support the hardware. That's why they give away a lot of the software for free. That's why I never liked the idea from the moment I heard of it. I'm afraid this will end very badly for Apple.

Well, either ends badly or they learn to interface iOS with other OSes properly. If this works out over time, it may mean iOS gains a new way to interoperate with other OSes.

Like I said, OSes are just software. If Mac can work with Windows in a secure way, I don't see why iOS can't work with the rest.
post #24 of 84

Apple need to get the lead out and move on this before Android or even Microsoft dominate in this market. My only fear as Mstone pointed out above is Apple has historically not been very good at partnering or working with other companies. 

 

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post #25 of 84

People here rant on about the colour of icons or the rumors of different screen sizes on the iPhone.... little things that kick up a fanboy storm.

 

But THIS news is actually the important stuff and it's sad to see Apple drop the ball. The amount of time people spend in their cars (in certain cities) is something very significant, and having android-friendly google-designed-UI cars take over the market is worriesome. Phone connectivity, imo, is the next big push of technology - Apple have it almost nailed with airplay at home, but are about to be completely trumped when it comes to the car.

post #26 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post
 
I whole heartily agree. Apple is a hardware company first. Their software is to support the hardware. That's why they give away a lot of the software for free. That's why I never liked the idea from the moment I heard of it. I'm afraid this will end very badly for Apple.

It is not impossible surely, but in order for it to work I think there are three essential integration support issues.

 

  1. Apple would need to allow the car companies the ability to control Apple's built in apps with some kind of launcher and skinning ability so they could differentiate their look and feel from other automakers. Apple would also need to let an iPhone pair up with the in car iPad-like device.

     

  2. The car companies would need some sort of breakout box behind the dash that they could connect all of their onboard computing and sensors to in order to integrate things like tire pressure alert or door ajar, etc through either BT or the lighting port.

     

  3. Car companies would have to write their own iOS apps for everything they wanted to display. This could be a very expensive proposition as they would essentially need to reinvent everything they already have working.

 

I'm not really sure what Apple brings to the table. Sure their GUI is head and shoulders above current in car systems but how do all the other mechanical and electrical systems integrate? Apple isn't really in the business of writing  dozens of different auto centric interfaces just so they will match graphically.

 

Auto systems already can control an iPhone to some extent like reading emails and music. As far as Maps is concerned, I like the onboard data because it is guaranteed to be available unlike Apple Maps which has to get its data from the Internet which is not always accessible or at sufficient speed over the cell network to be useful.

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post #27 of 84

All I'd be interested in would be a kit I could buy to retrofit my old car (probably replace the radio with an in-dash system). Top-to-bottom integration is not a factor for me.

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post #28 of 84

I said it before and I'll say it again, Eddy Cue has way too much on his plate. Apple needs to reorg Internet Software and Services and/or find a new SVP.

 

From Apple Press from apple.com/pr/bios

 

"Eddy oversees Apple's industry-leading content stores including the iTunes Store, the revolutionary App Store and the iBookstore, as well as Siri, Maps, iAd and Apple's innovative iCloud services."

 

And this gem:

 

"Eddy's team has an excellent track record of building and strengthening online services to meet and exceed the high expectations of Apple's customers."

 

Does Apple really believe Maps, Siri, iCloud, and the iBookstore meets or exceeds its customers expectations? I don't. 

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post #29 of 84
There is one Android factor being overlooked:

Until now, Android has been a honey pot for malware.

Do you think texting while driving is a safety issue?

How about debugging while driving?

The same issue applies to iOS in a Car, but I have more confidence Apple will deliver high reliability before Android does.
post #30 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by WardC View Post

I am more interested to hear what Apple has in store for iOS on a BIKE!

Sammy to introduce the Galaxy S Bike.
post #31 of 84

If anyone had said "The disconnect is attributed primarily to overarching organizational issues that are said to place pressure on non-hardware products that do not fit within existing teams." to Steve Jobs back in the day, they would still be extracting SJ's boot from that person's posterior cavity. I miss SJ. Yes he was a tyrant but he never put up with this kind of nonsense and knew how to push people and products to extremes. I definitely do not like hearing things like this come out of Apple.

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post #32 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

I said it before and I'll say it again, Eddy Cue has way too much on his plate. Apple needs to reorg Internet Software and Services and/or find a new SVP.

From Apple Press from apple.com/pr/bios

"Eddy oversees Apple's industry-leading content stores including the iTunes Store, the revolutionary App Store and the iBookstore, as well as Siri, Maps, iAd and Apple's innovative iCloud services."

And this gem:

"Eddy's team has an excellent track record of building and strengthening online services to meet and exceed the high expectations of Apple's customers."

Does Apple really believe Maps, Siri, iCloud, and the iBookstore meets or exceeds its customers expectations? I don't. 

Now this.I agree ! Eddy Cue needs more help it seems.
post #33 of 84
Great to see bedevil is still in someone's lexicon.
post #34 of 84

Seems like for this initiative to work well for Apple they need to bring in an executive who has automotive electronics experience to head the team.  It would not even need to be someone who worked for a car company - it could be a supplier or third party manufacturer like Pioneer.  Someone who understands integrating systems and hardware etc.

post #35 of 84
IMO there certainly was a hiatus at Apple, in the run up to Steve Jobs death and for a year or so afterwards. The first because the strong leader was not able to lead and nobody wanted to elbow him out of the way while he could still come back; the second because of the shock of losing said strong leader, and without a strong leader, the ship drifted.

Now I think things are coming back together again, but we must of course ignore those trolls paid to write bad things about Apple, just as it is sensible not to believe the ultra-zealot fanboys for whom Apple could do now wrong, ever.
post #36 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post
 

Apple need to get the lead out and move on this before Android or even Microsoft dominate in this market. My only fear as Mstone pointed out above is Apple has historically not been very good at partnering or working with other companies. 

 

I think Apple's doing just fine without a car product. Maybe what they're learning is that the problem is harder than they thought, or that they can't do it with the quality they'd like. Not every internal Apple initiative has been a success, and that's fine. Microsoft and Google may put something out only to have it be a dud, after all. If Apple doesn't do it, I'm sure they have good reason.

 

iOS and Mac OS have been so successful in part because Apple controls all the hardware -- that is to say, there are no driver issues. That's always been a weak point for Windows and other operating systems. In the car market, Apple is just not going to be in a position to tell all the car producers what hardware they have to install for safety sensors, etc. If Apple didn't want to play the discrete device single manufacturer thermostat market, why would they want to play in the hundreds-of-different-kinds-of-sensors-from-dozens-of-manufacturers car market? 

 

I could see Apple forming a partnership with a single car manufacturer. I doubt that it will be Tesla, because I don't think Apple will want to tie themselves to a niche brand. It'll be BMW or Mercedes or somebody like that if they want the historical quality factor. Toyota if they want the mass market. 

post #37 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMac2 View Post

...we must of course ignore those trolls paid to write bad things about Apple, just as it is sensible not to believe the ultra-zealot fanboys for whom Apple could do now wrong, ever.

 

How do trolls get paid to write bad things about Apple? I'm willing to sell out if there's enough cash in it. I kinda believe it's just not true, though.

post #38 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carthusia View Post

I said it before and I'll say it again, Eddy Cue has way too much on his plate. Apple needs to reorg Internet Software and Services and/or find a new SVP.

From Apple Press from apple.com/pr/bios

"Eddy oversees Apple's industry-leading content stores including the iTunes Store, the revolutionary App Store and the iBookstore, as well as Siri, Maps, iAd and Apple's innovative iCloud services."

And this gem:

"Eddy's team has an excellent track record of building and strengthening online services to meet and exceed the high expectations of Apple's customers."

Does Apple really believe Maps, Siri, iCloud, and the iBookstore meets or exceeds its customers expectations? I don't. 
Yes, especially if Apple gets into mobile payments. Eddy Cue can't handle all of that. In fact one could argue he's not handling that well what he has now. iOS in the car should be off the ground right now, there should be more progress on Apple TV (like an App Store) and iCloud still has issues.
post #39 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

How do trolls get paid to write bad things about Apple? I'm willing to sell out if there's enough cash in it. I kinda believe it's just not true, though.

Astroturfing ? There are guerrilla marketing companies or so called reputation management companies you can pay for writing up bad news and reviews (or vice versa). It's rather popular in the gaming industry.
post #40 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post
 

 

How do trolls get paid to write bad things about Apple? I'm willing to sell out if there's enough cash in it. I kinda believe it's just not true, though.

 

You clearly don't read much. There have been many court cases where companies have been successfully prosecuted, and agencies discovered to have paid to set up multiple identities for placing negative comments and negative reviews of competitor products in social media. I believe Samsung have been linked with this kind of thing.

 

But then again, maybe you're just a pedant with a predilection for trolling yourself and are annoyed because I didn't use the word 'shills' instead of 'trolls'? If so, do grow up and get a life.

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