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post #121 of 147

I think you are right about Steve really setting deadlines and making people stick to it. Tim seems like a nice guy but as CEO he probably needs to be a bit more of a ball buster when it comes to product development and launches. I hope they have some completely new product(s) this year especially after we have been hearing about "down the pipeline" for a while now. 

post #122 of 147

You're assuming that Apple doesn't see the market trends regarding a lower priced phone, especially in emerging markets, which by the way are actually not strong as a lot of people think. Recent data is showing that emerging markets are increasingly risky. It is easier to slowly bring the price of your product portfolio down than in large bites. The iPhone 5c wasn't as big a deal as they would have hoped, and they can address that. The fact that the product exists shows that they are looking to expand the product portfolio. The rumors of a larger phone will further expand the product portfolio.

 

Secondly, Apple's innovations were always fairly slow paced. Every several years they do something big and then incrementally refine it. Hell, even with regards to the iPhone and iPad, the iPad was released only 3 years after, but the reality is that it started development before even the iPhone did. Steve for as much of a ball buster as he was, was also very restrained in the number of things Apple would get involved in. Under his watch, Apple's product portfolio actually shrank to be more focused, and then slowly grew. This also ties in with your comments about Google. Google is less secretive about what they do with R&D. That is not the way Apple operates. Their R&D is done behind the curtains. Google's DNA is software and software development is vastly different. Gmail was in crazy active development in the public as a "beta" for years. With the announcement of the sale of MM to Lenovo, it shows just how hard good hardware is. I think Google begrudgingly signed on with Samsung. Ultimately, Google wants to be literally everywhere. Their revenue is based on the ubiquity of ads. They are trying to change that with certain purchases but for all the innovation you claim Google is doing, they make 97% of their revenue from the least innovative thing on the internet - advertising. Sure, robotics, AI and their other projects are cool conceptually, but they don't generate revenue.

 

Based on Tim Cook's comments, Apple doesn't have any shortage of things they'd like to tackle, but you have to do that slowly. If Apple did what Google did with Motorola, the world would explode.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThisIsMike View Post
 

snip
 

post #123 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopeless View Post
 

Me - I don't want a bigger phone. In fact, I'd like an iPhone 6 that goes back to the original iPhone size.

 

I say that if rotary phones were good enough for Jesus, they are good enough for me.

post #124 of 147
I'm sorry but people need to quit deifying Jobs and rewriting history. If Apple today came out with anything like the 1st gen iPhone, MacBook Air or iPad they'd be laughed off the stage. I mean the 1st iPhone didn't even have copy/paste functionality for gods sake! The first MacBook Air was nothing like what we have today and was $1800 to boot! What groundbreaking product did Apple introduce between the iPod and iPhone (besides the iTunes Store)? There were plenty of years where Macworlds and WWDCs were filled with incremental updates to existing products or Steve dinking around in some software program like iMovie for a half hour.

The iPhone 5S is arguably better than any iPhone released on Jobs watch. Same with the iPad Air and rMBP. And the new Mac Pro is as innovative as anything that happened under Jobs 2.0. I think this idea that Apple innovated faster under Jobs or that he cracked the whip and Cook isn't is pure fallacy, just rewriting history/romanticizing the past.
post #125 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsMike View Post
 

1. The iPhone. What's happening in regard to marketshare is no joke, and is not to be dismissed. To simply say, "we only cater to the higher end of the market" is a mistake. If marketshare continues to erode, eventually - not tomorrow, but eventually - you will have a situation all too similar to the old Mac vs. PC days. And those ...

2. Innovate FASTER. Steve Jobs was probably not always the nicest person. But he understood that sometimes pressure needed to be applied to bring things to market in a timely manner. This year, Apple needs to MOVE. That new, enhanced AppleTV? It's long overdue. The new, one MacBook Air retina ....

3. Ambition. What's a major difference between ....
 

My take is that there was a time (like the last 6 years) that none of the above were problems because Apple was on top of the world...i.e. they sold every iPod, then every iPhone, then every iPad they could possibly make...with high profit margins.  But today, the trend is looking a little different.  iPhone and iPad competition is stiff and margins are lower.

 

In a nutshell, you're right...NOW is the time for a LITTLE desperation on Apple's part...it's necessary.  And we all know that "necessity is the mother of all invention."  I'm optimistic that Apple is not comfortable with its position and hasn't been the last year.  R&D has been churning.  Just takes a bit more time to roll out a bigger iPhone, aTV, etc.

post #126 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleDigger View Post

It must have been even sweeter when it was $175 per share. Two days ago that was.

Would've could've should've. As of right now, it's still up since Cook officially took over.
post #127 of 147
We'll I'm due for a new iPad and iPhone in 2014. This has more to do with the iPad 2 and 3 being such stellar products (and planned obsolescence on behalf of the android crowd: need the latest firmware? buy a new device!).
post #128 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm sorry but people need to quit deifying Jobs and rewriting history. If Apple today came out with anything like the 1st gen iPhone, MacBook Air or iPad they'd be laughed off the stage. I mean the 1st iPhone didn't even have copy/paste functionality for gods sake! The first MacBook Air was nothing like what we have today and was $1800 to boot! What groundbreaking product did Apple introduce between the iPod and iPhone (besides the iTunes Store)? There were plenty of years where Macworlds and WWDCs were filled with incremental updates to existing products or Steve dinking around in some software program like iMovie for a half hour.

The iPhone 5S is arguably better than any iPhone released on Jobs watch. Same with the iPad Air and rMBP. And the new Mac Pro is as innovative as anything that happened under Jobs 2.0. I think this idea that Apple innovated faster under Jobs or that he cracked the whip and Cook isn't is pure fallacy, just rewriting history/romanticizing the past.

 

Yes, and that Mac Plus! What a joke! I mean, 512KB of RAM? Who were they kidding?

post #129 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

 

Yes, and that Mac Plus! What a joke! I mean, 512KB of RAM? Who were they kidding?

 Youngster!

 

You and your fancy 512. In my day we only had 128s!

na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #130 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThisIsMike View Post


2. Innovate FASTER. Steve Jobs was probably not always the nicest person. But he understood that sometimes pressure needed to be applied to bring things to market in a timely manner.

3. Ambition. What's a major difference between Google and Apple? Apple purports to "laser focus" on specific products, while Google's ambitions (it has become more clear than ever based on recent acquisitions) are limitless. I once wrote an email to Tim Cook recommending they develop an actual iCar, and just skip over the intermediate "iOS in the car" altogether. It might sound crazy, but hey, "here's to the crazy ones," right? (Or, if you want to put that cash to use, buy Tesla. Probably impossible, but who cares! Find a way.) I believe Apple under Steve Jobs had limitless ambition. I'm not sure that's still true of Apple. I'd like to hope they can get some of that fire back.

2. Innovate on a schedule, like is a check mark on a To-do list. "Good news, I innovated today. "
Stupidest thing, ever.

Btw, how long did the iPad come to market from an idea? 6-7 yrs?

3. Dumb dumb dumb. I forget that Jobs build 100 different product lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulsearcher View Post

I think you are right about Steve really setting deadlines and making people stick to it. Tim seems like a nice guy but as CEO he probably needs to be a bit more of a ball buster when it comes to product development and launches. I hope they have some completely new product(s) this year especially after we have been hearing about "down the pipeline" for a while now. 
Right, I forgot iOS 7 was delayed and took 3 years.
post #131 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm sorry but people need to quit deifying Jobs and rewriting history. If Apple today came out with anything like the 1st gen iPhone, MacBook Air or iPad they'd be laughed off the stage. I mean the 1st iPhone didn't even have copy/paste functionality for gods sake! The first MacBook Air was nothing like what we have today and was $1800 to boot! What groundbreaking product did Apple introduce between the iPod and iPhone (besides the iTunes Store)? There were plenty of years where Macworlds and WWDCs were filled with incremental updates to existing products or Steve dinking around in some software program like iMovie for a half hour.

The iPhone 5S is arguably better than any iPhone released on Jobs watch. Same with the iPad Air and rMBP. And the new Mac Pro is as innovative as anything that happened under Jobs 2.0. I think this idea that Apple innovated faster under Jobs or that he cracked the whip and Cook isn't is pure fallacy, just rewriting history/romanticizing the past.

Ha!

I remember an Apple event that introduced the iPod Hi-Fi and a leather iPod case... That's it! SJ took about 45 minutes...

And.. No "one more thing".


Wha? Total non-event... Why did you call this meeting?

...Piss-poor marketing!
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post #132 of 147
Another Chicken Little story. What's missing? 1) China growth was 29% last year. 2) Used iPhones command good price, which can only mean someone is buying them. But that will NEVER show up in market share.

And... We don't know what else Apple will deliver using iOS. It's a new platform, just starting out.
post #133 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

 

Yes, and that Mac Plus! What a joke! I mean, 512KB of RAM? Who were they kidding?
 Youngster!

You and your fancy 512. In my day we only had 128s!



Edited by Dick Applebaum - 1/30/14 at 1:34am
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #134 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

And do you really think that things would be different if Jobs was still alive? Only your mindset would be different.

Nope. This would be different.

1) iOS 7 would still be skeumorphic. And less buggy. Jobs like photo realism. And perfection.
2) Apple would be working harder. He was a tougher CEO
3) Jobs didn't accept all of Ive's designs. Jobs' skill, his design taste ( which was very real) was about rejection. He wasn't creative. But he knew what he didn't like. I'd be surprised if he had liked the iPhone 5c. Everything else in Cooks reign has been ok in terms of hardware design.
4) Forstall - well loved within Apple by his underlings if not his peers would still be there.
5) Jobs' rdf would still be working. He may have gotten China mobile on board earlier with his charm.
6) I think he would respond to market signals more aggressively. The original iPhone was not selling, he reduced it by $200 and the rest is history. As far as I recall he did that against internal advice from the bean counters. Cook is either a bean counter or listens to them. Hence the 5c costs what it always cost.
7) Jobs' reaction to stock drops (which happened on his watch a bit) was to say "
We will innovate out of this".

Cook buys back stock and returns dividends. Returning dividends is a signal to the market that the growth phase is over and the consolidation phase has begun. It looks like Cook predicted Apple's fall off in growth and protected himself with buy backs and dividends, which isn't the same as "innovating out of this".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So Apple just got done making most of their software free and now we have Einstein here telling us Apple needs to charge for software and services? When one of their biggest competitors basically gives away their software and services for free and another competitor is getting into the hardware business? WTF?

iTunes is growing 20% yoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I'm sorry but people need to quit deifying Jobs and rewriting history. If Apple today came out with anything like the 1st gen iPhone, MacBook Air or iPad they'd be laughed off the stage. I mean the 1st iPhone didn't even have copy/paste functionality for gods sake! The first MacBook Air was nothing like what we have today and was $1800 to boot!

Yeah if he released the first iPhone now it would be a joke alright but it was revolutionary then, as was the air. Occasionally he had nothing. But he did a lot of presentations. I'd still fell good watching him introduce an insanely great cup of tea.
I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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I wanted dsadsa bit it was taken.
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post #135 of 147
Don't understand why investors aren't so patient with apple, record sales, iphone 5c will become the new mid range product and it will have improved sales in developing countries, bigger iphone 6 is coming and it will be the new high range product.
post #136 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

2. Innovate on a schedule, like is a check mark on a To-do list. "Good news, I innovated today. "
Stupidest thing, ever.

Btw, how long did the iPad come to market from an idea? 6-7 yrs?

3. Dumb dumb dumb. I forget that Jobs build 100 different product lines.
Right, I forgot iOS 7 was delayed and took 3 years.
If only Steve had remembered to give his whip to Tim. Then Tim could walk down to Jony's design studio, crack the whip and demand Ive & Co. innovate faster.
post #137 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Nope. This would be different.

1) iOS 7 would still be skeumorphic. And less buggy. Jobs like photo realism. And perfection.
2) Apple would be working harder. He was a tougher CEO
3) Jobs didn't accept all of Ive's designs. Jobs' skill, his design taste ( which was very real) was about rejection. He wasn't creative. But he knew what he didn't like. I'd be surprised if he had liked the iPhone 5c. Everything else in Cooks reign has been ok in terms of hardware design.
4) Forstall - well loved within Apple by his underlings if not his peers would still be there.
5) Jobs' rdf would still be working. He may have gotten China mobile on board earlier with his charm.
6) I think he would respond to market signals more aggressively. The original iPhone was not selling, he reduced it by $200 and the rest is history. As far as I recall he did that against internal advice from the bean counters. Cook is either a bean counter or listens to them. Hence the 5c costs what it always cost.
7) Jobs' reaction to stock drops (which happened on his watch a bit) was to say "
We will innovate out of this".

Cook buys back stock and returns dividends. Returning dividends is a signal to the market that the growth phase is over and the consolidation phase has begun. It looks like Cook predicted Apple's fall off in growth and protected himself with buy backs and dividends, which isn't the same as "innovating out of this".

1. Less buggy? I forgot there were no point releases for OS X and iOS over the last 10 years of Jobs.
2. I don't know how you can quantify that.
3. Jobs wouldn't have liked the 5C. Just like he didn't like the multi color iPods or the fat iPod Nano or the colorful iMacs.
4. Forstall was hated or disliked. Most of the insider info that leaked agrees.
5. Who's delusional now? Jobs RDF worked so great that he only got Verizon on board immediately after ATT. Oh that didn't happen?
6. Sure he would have. Times were different and so was the cost. Apple charged full price for the iPhone and took a pct of the subscription fees. The 5C costs the same as the 4S in the prev year.
7. Apple didn't have a large cash horde during his tenure.
post #138 of 147
Originally Posted by ThisIsMike View Post
I'm not anti-Tim Cook. I think he's doing, overall, an excellent job. I think Apple has continued to innovate, and will continue to do so - including the introduction of new product categories. But

 

…if you actually weren’t that, you wouldn’t waste our time with these embarrassing qualifications of your complaints. :no:

 

The iPhone. Whats happening in regard to marketshare is no joke

 

It’s growing. That’s pretty funny to me.

 
To simply say, "we only cater to the higher end of the market" is a mistake.

 

Maybe. It isn’t, but maybe. Good thing Apple hasn’t said that and doesn’t do that, huh? Their phones range from free to $200.

 
What the iPod did right was in finding a way to make truly great products for every price-point.

 

Been in a coma since 2010?

 
With a larger-screened device coming…

 

lol.

 
…make THAT the high end, aspirational model…

 

Intelligent people don’t aspire to own a device they can’t use half the time. And intelligent people tend to have the money to afford the high end devices.

 
…bring back the 4S screen size…

 

No.

 
Or, drop the price on the 5C - because honestly, part of the reason it didn't sell as well as hoped is because the price didn't match the product.

 

It absolutely matched.

 
2. Innovate FASTER.

 

Yeah, they’ll get right on that, I’m sure¡

 
June…

 

You sound like an analyst. You don’t understand anything at all here.

 

It's something that is typically done when there's an understanding that the wait for a particular product has become so problematically over-long that *something* must be announced

 

No, that’s not why they do it.

 
What's a major difference between Google and Apple? 

 

One makes good products that people want to use and the other whores out human beings and steals intellectual property.

 
It might sound crazy, but hey, "here's to the crazy ones," right?

 

There are a thousand ‘no’s for every ‘yes’.

 

In your case, there are a thousand and one.

 
Apple is still a great company. It still makes great products. It still innovates. But

 

Just stop it. We couldn’t care less. 

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #139 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

 

 

In your case, there are a thousand and one.

 

 

lmao

post #140 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Ok. And?

We still need to upgrade our devices.

Do you need to upgrade your phone every year or more?

post #141 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammysamsam View Post
 

Do you need to upgrade your phone every year or more?

most people I know upgrade every 2 years. Mine lands every 's' model, my brother lands on regular models.... Meaning, there is always half of the group with the ability to upgrade, pay $200 for their phone, and sell their old phone for $250 on ebay. Its a win/win that a lot of people take advantage of.

post #142 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by justp1ayin View Post
 

most people I know upgrade every 2 years. Mine lands every 's' model, my brother lands on regular models.... Meaning, there is always half of the group with the ability to upgrade, pay $200 for their phone, and sell their old phone for $250 on ebay. Its a win/win that a lot of people take advantage of.

 

By win/win you mean that you have a free pass to give $100/month to the carrier of your choice?

post #143 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

By win/win you mean that you have a free pass to give $100/month to the carrier of your choice?

I pay $53 for a computer in my pocket. We ain't all broke out here
post #144 of 147

^^

I pay $270 for 5 iPhones on ATT with 10 gig data shared. Just saying...

android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

Reply

android sucks, but not as much as the people who come here to defend it.

New for MS dorks - Microsoft sucks just as much as the losers that come to AI to defend it

Reply
post #145 of 147
Late answers, but whatever...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

What percent of those 78% android phones 4 inches or less are top tier phones?  All the major Android top tier phones are 5 inches or very close.  Samsung alone has sold about 200,000,000 5 inch phones since the S2.  The HTC one is 5 inch.

Why does it have to be this OR that?  Why not make two phones and two sizes?  Ridiculous!!! If cheap ass Chinese OEM's can make multiple phones at multiple sizes and Apple can't?

And that's what I said they should do. Having two sizes like they now have for the iPad makes sense and is coherent. 4 and 5 inch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I won't argue that a larger iPhone is necessary (or at least different sizes like with the iPad) but Apple needs more than just a bigger iPhone to change its fortunes. Right now over 50% of Apple's revenue comes from iPhone. They need new revenue streams and need to grow the iPad even more. Living and dying by iPhone sales isn't good for the company.

I don't think that an iWatch would change that. Even if I love the idea, I'm not sure I'd buy one myself, even if I don't know what they'll come up with. I want a big screen to interact, that's what I need.
They could get more money from other markets, like TV. That is one point where I think they could lead. Content providing. I don't know how much I'll have to wait for them to unveil a music/video streaming plan. Might take years, but it seems obvious that will happen eventually, looking how tech is changing.
post #146 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post


I don't think that an iWatch would change that. Even if I love the idea, I'm not sure I'd buy one myself, even if I don't know what they'll come up with. I want a big screen to interact, that's what I need.
They could get more money from other markets, like TV. That is one point where I think they could lead. Content providing. I don't know how much I'll have to wait for them to unveil a music/video streaming plan. Might take years, but it seems obvious that will happen eventually, looking how tech is changing.

Bigger screens are coming.

...but a new category like iWatch would be additive (in both profit and platform usage).  I just don't see how an iWatch could be bought and used by itself (in the near future anyway).

 

Re: "other markets".  Apple has SO MUCH potential to monetize its ridiculous.  Whether its content/streaming, data access, payment transactions, advertising, search, software, etc....I am convinced they discuss these things on a daily basis.  Just a matter of time before they roll out additional services.  I just hope they never become an old/geezer/corporate/behemoth/lethargic business which would stifle innovation.

post #147 of 147
By big screens I was referring to the current iPhone size compared to the 'iwatch'.
Yes, they have probably a lot of big plans for the future. What's good with all these possibilities is that they can take their time to refine each idea and come out with someone new every year. Everyone knows that everything will be different in just 2-3 years, and no one can make predictions. It's pretty incredible.
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