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Lenovo to reportedly buy Google's Motorola Mobility for $2.9 billion [update: confirmed] - Page 2

post #41 of 235
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post
But you claim it is a monopoly

 

Having absolutely nothing to do with the ability to sell it.

 
…why would you sell it then?

 

For the reason stated in the thread, which you’d know if you had actually read the post in question or cared anything about what we’re discussing.

 
 But in saying that, how is that proof gathering coming along? 

 

Why not just shut up and go read the post wherein I already showed that? Thanks.

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post #42 of 235

From reading the HN thread it looks like Google's total loss was about $1B and they retain control of a significant number of patents, who knows how valuable they could be: https://investor.google.com/releases/2014/0129.html

 

A shame really, although Lenovo could be a good driver, I just hate all the crap you see bundled onto Samsung phones. Lets hope Motorola stick with their current strategy, Moto X and G are both lovely phones.

post #43 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why not just shut up and go read the post wherein I already showed that? Thanks.

it is a lovely picture, but it doesn't prove anything
post #44 of 235

Impressively innovative.

 

Holds with the old joke: the way to make $2.91 billion? by a loser handset maker for $12.5......

post #45 of 235

Wow, this is a bit of a surprise... Not the actual sale, as it was a bad acquisition in the first place, but the loss at which they are selling it for!

 

And low and behold, Wall Scum have jacked up GOOG almost $30 in after-market trading:

 

 

So Google dumps a worthless company at a $9 billion+ loss and gets rewarded with an extra $30 per share value, while Apple rakes in their best quarter ever, and took 4th place in the WORLD for BEST QUARTER EVER RECORD, and they get punished by losing $45 per share...

 

IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?!?!?!

post #46 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by manicakes View Post

Funny, because the Nest acquisition was about the same (200M more expensive).

So ... Google traded Motorola Mobility (paid 12.5B) for a thermostat company.

Ouch.

But it's a snoopy thermostat...

post #47 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
 

 

Step 1: That money is already gone, meaningless in terms of investing, makes for good fodder only.

 

Is it though?  Shouldn't the company have to do a write-down just like Blackberry or Microsoft did with their unsold hardware in recent years?

 

Surely Google still had Motorola being of significant value on their books.  Selling it for 2.91 billion must certainly be far less than it's book value.  Therefore a huge write-off would be required next quarter, no?  Unless they're going to claim the difference as the real value of the patents that they're keeping which would be utter nonsense considering they're basically worthless.

post #48 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

it is a lovely picture, but it doesn't prove anything

He'd love to explain it to you but he doesn't have any crayons.
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Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
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post #49 of 235

I knew this was coming, my prediction was they would shut it down in 2 to 3 yrs when the purchase, I figure by some time in 2014 they would be out of the cell phone business, I figure they would just shut it down since I could not see anyone stupid enough to buy what was left. 

 

Thanks Icahl for officially killing what was once know as Motorola. 

 

I will give Lenovo credit for doing a good job with the IBM think pad and taking it forward, however they have something good to work with, I do not believe that to be the case here.

 

Think about this, Google license all the Moto IP to Samsung and then turns around and sell the business to one of the company eating Samsung lunch on the low end and license all the same IP to Lenovo as well.

post #50 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post
 

Wow, this is a bit of a surprise... Not the actual sale, as it was a bad acquisition in the first place, but the loss at which they are selling it for!

 

And low and behold, Wall Scum have jacked up GOOG almost $30 in after-market trading:

 

 

So Google dumps a worthless company at a $9 billion+ loss and gets rewarded with an extra $30 per share value, while Apple rakes in their best quarter ever, and took 4th place in the WORLD for BEST QUARTER EVER RECORD, and they get punished by losing $45 per share...

 

IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?!?!?!

 

It's only a one or two billion dollar loss and Google dumps a money loser... I'd be a happy GOOG shareholder at this point.

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post #51 of 235

All those patent disputes that Motorola brought against Apple (and others) in Europe didn't work out (I assume Google bought Motorola for their patents).

 

And yet Lenovo has a more expansive (phone) product portolio than Motorola.

 

Something doesn't add up about this deal...

post #52 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by formosa View Post
 

All those patent disputes that Motorola brought against Apple (and others) in Europe didn't work out (I assume Google bought Motorola for their patents).

 

And yet Lenovo has a more expansive (phone) product portolio than Motorola.

 

Something doesn't add up about this deal...

 

Moto has a US presence complete with great contacts. Add in the cross licencing deal...

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post #53 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
 

 

Step 1: That money is already gone, meaningless in terms of investing, makes for good fodder only.

Step 2: This is exactly why Google is up after hours. Dump a bleeding asset, you make more money.

Step 3: Irrelevant by Step 1, and softened since they already sold part of Motorola for 2.x billion some time ago.

Step 4: yep.

 

Business 101.

 

The point the original poster is making is since the acquisition of Motorola Mobility [even then told to be a money pit] the stock ballooned on successful acquisition and subsequent growth for Google in the android market. Google didn't grow jack other than ad revenues from its partners, and mainly from the success of iOS ads.

 

Ignoring the costs of legal suits leveraging this junk patent list tells me Wall Street doesn't know jack about economics, nor technology, but only speculation.

 

They do however see every little venture Google attempts [Fiber for instance] and leverage the hell out of that pipe dream as becoming the next ATT or Verizon to justify their ballooned P/E valuation.

post #54 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post
 

Wow, this is a bit of a surprise... Not the actual sale, as it was a bad acquisition in the first place, but the loss at which they are selling it for!

 

And low and behold, Wall Scum have jacked up GOOG almost $30 in after-market trading:

 

 

So Google dumps a worthless company at a $9 billion+ loss and gets rewarded with an extra $30 per share value, while Apple rakes in their best quarter ever, and took 4th place in the WORLD for BEST QUARTER EVER RECORD, and they get punished by losing $45 per share...

 

IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?!?!?!

 

Picture is only wrong to people who don't understand growth rate and just like to see words like record.  Motorola division was operating at a loss and now it's gone.  Apparently Wall Street is scum when they hedge against Apple.  Don't recall anyone calling them scum when Apple was "jacked up" to 800.

post #55 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

Moto has a US presence complete with great contacts. Add in the cross licencing deal...

 

Samsung isn't in a cross-patent licensing deal with Motorola, but with Google. Lenovo doesn't benefit from that.

post #56 of 235

I never bought the patent excuse. It hasn't made sense at any point in this story. I think Motorola was hedge against Samsung. It can't be a coincidence that the "Samsung and Google are now best friends" story before this news. That was Google doing damage control. Basically: there has been a big internal battle for Android between Google and Samsung. Google bought Motorola because it thought it might lose Android to Samsung. It also started taking more and more of Android closed source to regain control. Samsung kept exploring alternatives (like Tizen) and replicating Google's own software. It was basically a Cold War. Now they're settling.

post #57 of 235

Folk Google losses on this were pretty high, The paid 12.5B and with the looses that Motorola continue to have while they owned it push that number to about 15B, so with the sale of the Home business and not the cell phone business Google is in the hole about 10B and they will never make any of that up with the licensing fees on the fee patents that bring in cash for them.

 

Apple need to do the same thing buy companies with a negative ROI and then dump and the stock will go up

post #58 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

Picture is only wrong to people who don't understand growth rate and just like to see words like record.  Motorola division was operating at a loss and now it's gone.  Apparently Wall Street is scum when they hedge against Apple.  Don't recall anyone calling them scum when Apple was "jacked up" to 800.

 

What growth does this provide Google? Quantify it. I'm looking forward to this analysis.

post #59 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post
 

Wow, this is a bit of a surprise... Not the actual sale, as it was a bad acquisition in the first place, but the loss at which they are selling it for!

 

And low and behold, Wall Scum have jacked up GOOG almost $30 in after-market trading:

 

 

So Google dumps a worthless company at a $9 billion+ loss and gets rewarded with an extra $30 per share value, while Apple rakes in their best quarter ever, and took 4th place in the WORLD for BEST QUARTER EVER RECORD, and they get punished by losing $45 per share...

 

IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?!?!?!

It was not a bad acquisition. Google likely wanted the patents as the smart phone landscape has turned in a patent war zone. I bolded the below from the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

When Google made the Motorola buy in 2012, some speculated the acquisition was fueled at least in part by American telecom's patent cache. A subsequent statement from Motorola confirmed that Google will be hanging on to a "vast majority" of patents, including pending patent applications and invention disclosures. Lenovo will receive over 2,000 patents in the deal and has the option to license additional properties from the portfolio directly from Google.
 
post #60 of 235
Another iconic American brand turning Chinese. Sad day.
post #61 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

It's only a one or two billion dollar loss and Google dumps a money loser... I'd be a happy GOOG shareholder at this point.
How is it only a one two billion loss? I thought most of MM patents were FRAND. How can they be that valuable?
post #62 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

Picture is only wrong to people who don't understand growth rate and just like to see words like record.  Motorola division was operating at a loss and now it's gone.  Apparently Wall Street is scum when they hedge against Apple.  Don't recall anyone calling them scum when Apple was "jacked up" to 800.

Which re-enforces my point of them being Wall Scum, they are playing favourites with Google! If what you say is true that Motorola was running at a loss for Google, than their loses are greater than $9 billion! So with that much red ink on the balance sheet, no matter how they try to spin it later on their next quarterly, this is still a HUGE loss that demonstrates a tremendous mistake by Google's senior management, and yet they are being rewarded for their stupidity!

 

And with a name like mistercow, I must be talking to a Google brown noser...

post #63 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

 

Samsung isn't in a cross-patent licensing deal with Motorola, but with Google. Lenovo doesn't benefit from that.

 

Google is keeping a lot of the Moto patents to itself... but is licensing those patents to Lenovo.

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post #64 of 235
Disappointing to the highest degree.

Another American company(with a manufacturing presence here even) lost to overseas clutches. This is a DEEP wound here Google. I will not forgive you for this one.
post #65 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


How is it only a one two billion loss? I thought most of MM patents were FRAND. How can they be that valuable?

 

1. Tax losses

 

2. Money acquired on acquisition

 

3. Sale of set top boxes (plus 15% stake in Arris)

 

4. Remaining patent valuation

 

5. Sale to Lenovo

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post #66 of 235
What has GOOG written off previously for the acquisition? I would imagine they still have a good $5B to write down now.
post #67 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Negafox View Post

It was not a bad acquisition. Google likely wanted the patents as the smart phone landscape has turned in a patent war zone. I bolded the below from the article.
Are Motorola's patents that valuable?
post #68 of 235

There was no doubt Google bought Motorola for the Patents, they attempted to cover up that fact, but the regulation bodies over seeing a sales like this put lots of restriction on Google so they were force to try and make a go of it. They were also force to sell the home business as soon as they could find a buyer. Keep in mind who's idea it was to buy motorola is was the same idiot who have been told to go play with robots for a while.

 

The patents have really become worthless at this point to google. 

post #69 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

And his mom just called him upstairs for dinner.

Dude, that's YOUR mum!

1wink.gif

I wonder how much Nest will resell for...
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post #70 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I would say that the loss isn't as great as many on here would think... plus, add the fact that the Moto losses won't be on the books any more... stock goes up.

[... and, yes, it appears to be a lack of strategy... maybe they learn fast. They certainly aren't afraid to move quickly.]

Wtf are you talking about. They will have to take a massive goodwill loss once the deal closes.
post #71 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagMan1979 View Post
 

Which re-enforces my point of them being Wall Scum, they are playing favourites with Google! If what you say is true that Motorola was running at a loss for Google, than their loses are greater than $9 billion! So with that much red ink on the balance sheet, no matter how they try to spin it later on their next quarterly, this is still a HUGE loss that demonstrates a tremendous mistake by Google's senior management, and yet they are being rewarded for their stupidity!

 

 

The purchase of Motorola was done in 2012.  That money is already gone.  And the loss is closer to 3-4 billion all together considering other sales, while retaining their patent portfolio.  It's a loss but now is less of a loss and will no longer continuing to be one. 

post #72 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Amazon barely makes money: stock up.
Googs wastes 12.5 billion and has a negative ROI on Moto: stock up.
Apple makes money hand over fist: stock drops.

Perfect sense!


Its obvious the large stock holders want Google to split. If Yahoo did the same exact thing its stock would have lost exactly the amount Google gained. Huge investors have their reasons and of course its to make more $$$$.

post #73 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

1. Tax losses

2. Money acquired on acquisition

3. Sale of set top boxes (plus 15% stake in Arris)

4. Remaining patent valuation

5. Sale to Lenovo

BS. The loss is huge.

12.5 billion
Sold set top business for $3 billion
Sold rest for $3 billion.
They also lost about a billion on operations.
so before taxes that is a $7.5 billion loss.
googles tax rate was about 25% last quarter.
That leaves a net loss of $5.6 billion, which is about 2 quarters worth of google profits.

Now try to spin that

Patents are worthless. They have collected less than $10 million from total patent royalties
post #74 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I remember very well when Google first bought Motorola's division.  Quite a few idiots (which also includes Fandroids) thought that Google had a winner in terms of patents and they were going right after Apple.  Some basement-dwelling-armchair-CEO's in various threads were complaining that Apple should have bought that division to head-off Google.


Well.... as usual, those people are nowhere to be seen on this thread and are being conspicuously quiet.  Where are they?  Looking the other way hoping no one calls you on it?

Someone dig up the suspiciously identical sounding press releases from all of Google's Android partners who were heralding the Motorola purchase as a wonderful move to "protect innovation" (or some such nonsense).

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #75 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

The thing about companies with more money than business sense... They will soon be shed of both.

Is that the SpamSandwich version of 'a fool and his money are soon parted'? lol.gif
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post #76 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

Disappointing to the highest degree.

Another American company(with a manufacturing presence here even) lost to overseas clutches. This is a DEEP wound here Google. I will not forgive you for this one.

Perhaps the deal will be blocked or have conditions applied by the US government. I'm not sure but such a move by Google could also be subject to approval by their shareholders. It will be awhile before it is really a done deal.

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post #77 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post
 

 

Step 1: That money is already gone, meaningless in terms of investing, makes for good fodder only.

Step 2: This is exactly why Google is up after hours. Dump a bleeding asset, you make more money.

Step 3: Irrelevant by Step 1, and softened since they already sold part of Motorola for 2.x billion some time ago.

Step 4: yep.

 

Business 101.

No, that's nowhere close to business 101. 

You might consider repeating the course, and maybe with a different instructor.

 

Or maybe you're just confusing it with Burning Capital thru Poor Management & Planning 101?

 

Wall St. drunk on Android Kool-aid is neither a realistic nor long term measure of actual corporate health.  It's purely a low level, media driven fad.  "Paging Mr. Bieber... Mr. Bieber please pick up the white courtesy phone on the Exchange floor..."

 

Also I think your seat license for declaring "irrelevant" might have expired.

post #78 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

And Google is up $12 from this news after hours.

 

WTF.

 

Yep. Google loses $9 billion in the deal and the stock is up. Apple has a record quarter and they tank.

post #79 of 235
This is disappointing. I had hoped that they would use Motorola to stabilize Android and create a killer phone. I guess they just didn't have it in them.

This could be one step closer to them abandoning Android and focusing on Chrome OS.

Maybe some of those patents are really worth the price they paid for Motorola.
post #80 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post
 

 

1. Tax losses

 

2. Money acquired on acquisition

 

3. Sale of set top boxes (plus 15% stake in Arris)

 

4. Remaining patent valuation

 

5. Sale to Lenovo

 

Total BS Island Hermit. Show me your calculations:

 

Purchase price $12.5 B

Sold set top box unit for $2.3 billion (stock and cash)

http://money.cnn.com/2012/12/20/technology/google-cable-box-motorola/

Sold phone business for $3 billion

Most of the patents are worthless and they lost a decision to Microsoft recently where they tried to get Billions for royalties but the court only gave them a few million.  Lets just be generous and say the patents are worth $1 Billion

http://www.techdirt.com/blog/wireless/articles/20110831/01030115745/are-any-patents-google-got-with-motorola-mobility-any-good.shtml

 

Motorolla was losing about a billion dollars a year from operations.

This does not even count the legal fees to make the acquistion and selling the company.  Also labor cost, severance costs, SEC costs, ect.  That could easily be another one hundred to two hundred million dollars.

 

12.5 cost

-2.3 sell set top business

-3 sell phone business

-1 value of patents

1.0 operational losses under google

 

total = 7.2

 

google tax rate is 24%

https://investor.google.com/earnings/2013/Q2_google_earnings.html

 

Total loss is $5,400,000,000.    Google only made $10B in fiscal year 2012.  So the loss basically wiped out half of year of profits.

 

Now try to spin that as being 'a small loss'.

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