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With Nest in & Motorola out, Google now looking to acquire wearable tech companies - Page 2

post #41 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

WS always provides their own guess...er...guidance regardless if Apple does. WS really doesn't care what Apple says.
well don't give them a starting point. Apple should clam up more rather than getting into the minutiae of channel inventory and upgrade cycles and mix between different iPhone/iPad models. Just give out the bare minimum.
post #42 of 100
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
Hope this is true.

 

I only hope it is if that means Apple will never make an unusably sized phone. Otherwise it’s idiotic to get rid of the phone form factor.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #43 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

To turn the focus back on to Apple, I read a great article in The Street this morning, on things Apple should do in the future.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/external/tsmfe/SIG=13ne5q9ce/*http://www.thestreet.com/story/12287155/1/6-things-apple-needs-to-learn-from-facebook-amazon-google-tesla-disney.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

The first two I'm in total agreement with. Apple should cease providing forward guidance (companies like Facebook and Google don't) and should cease providing sales figures (none of their peers do). This quarter was the best ever for Apple in terms of revenues and earnings and yet the stock dropped 10% because Wall Street didn't like iPhone sales figures and didn't like Q2 guidance. Stop giving Wall Street so much information and stop getting into the weeds on conference calls.

Another one I'm in agreement with - if Apple is going to have these long gaps between product launches then they may need to throw people a bone as far as some of the stuff they're working on. Steve was given the benefit of the doubt and even if he didn't disclose what Apple was working on everyone just assumed Apple was up to something great. Unfortunately Tim & Co. dont get that benefit of the doubt. Wall Street & others assume no news means Apple is out of ideas besides incremental improvements to existing products. So Tim might need to start being a bit more open to give people confidence that there is some cool shit in the pipeline.

And finally Apple really needs to up its game in software and services. Make this stuff best in class with frequent updates and improvements. We're starting to see some of that but a lot more can be done here, IMO.

Overall one of the better "Apple needs to..." articles I've read in a while. Not hyperbolic, not Apple is DOOMED, but a sober piece with some good advice from someone who is long on AAPL.

It isn't true that Apple do nothing between two marketing ideas, they sue competitors.

Suing is part of their marketing budget in the United State where protectionism is an argument for selling.
post #44 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post

 Of course. It's listed in Google's SEC filing. Note 8. $5.5 billion to be more precise.

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000119312512312575/d357361d10q.htm

So that was their best guess at the time of the purchase, based on "estimates & assumptions .... subject to change". I wonder what a more recent set of accounts would show?
post #45 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post
 

 Of course. It's listed in Google's SEC filing. Note 8. $5.5 billion to be more precise.

 

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1288776/000119312512312575/d357361d10q.htm

Huh? All you showed me is a filing (from the time of purchase) that says "we attributed $5.5B to acquired patents and developed technology" at the time they bought MM.

 

That could be worth a hill of beans today (or for the matter, even then). Is there anything that points to the fact that it's still worth $5.5B or that Lenovo did not buy it?

 

Perhaps you're the clueless person here?

post #46 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

To turn the focus back on to Apple, I read a great article in The Street this morning, on things Apple should do in the future.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/external/tsmfe/SIG=13ne5q9ce/*http://www.thestreet.com/story/12287155/1/6-things-apple-needs-to-learn-from-facebook-amazon-google-tesla-disney.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

 

One of the best Apple articles I've read in a long time.

 

Bottom line is this:  If you give Wall Street 99 items that are good news but 1 item that is bad news they will focus on the bad news. PERIOD.  Look at the last Qtr.  It was an amazing quarter.  They blew away Wall Streets EPS estimate.  They crushed it on the top and bottom line.  They smashed Wall Streets gross margin estimate and Averaging selling price of iPhones and iPads were higher than any of the analysis predicted.

 

But Apple gave Wall Street an opening.  Unit sales and guidance.  Without the information the stock would probably be close to $600 right now instead of sub $500.  What a fuking joke.

 

Guidance is worthless at this point.  All it does is take away from the ACTUAL RESULTS of the quarter.  Apple had an awesome quarter but all Wall St is focused on is next quarter.  Lets worry about next quarter when its done, OKAY!  Let us focus on the current quarter.  They can give some hints about what they expect the next quarter.  Say some BS like we are extremely excited about ChinaMobile roll out, ect.  But don't be giving Revenue estimates that Wall street will pick apart any way they see fit. 

 

And as we have seen TIME and TIME again Wall Street totally ignores Apple's guidance anyway.  Apple hit and exceeded their high range yet Wall St still punished them.  Stop this clown show.  No more guidance.  Stop feeding the TROLLS.

 

And stop giving unit numbers.  No one else does.  Not Amazon, Not Google, Not Samsung.  You can release a general statement like we just sold our 300,000,000 iPhone.  But please stop giving exact numbers EVERY QUARTER.  All this does is open the way for nit picking and comparing sales to some stupid white box BS figures.

 

Keep it simple.  Let the financials speak for themself.  Apple made more profit in ONE QUARTER than Google made in the ENTIRE YEAR 2013.  Let that speak for itself.  We dont need to hear about channel inventory, supply constraints, currency flux, ect.  BS. Bs.  Its just fuel to feed the Wall St manipulators.


Edited by sog35 - 1/31/14 at 8:25am
post #47 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Huh? All you showed me is a filing (from the time of purchase) that says "we attributed $5.5B to acquired patents and developed technology" at the time they bought MM.

That could be worth a hill of beans today (or for the matter, even then). Is there anything that points to the fact that it's still worth $5.5B or that Lenovo did not buy it?

Perhaps you're the clueless person here?

Anant, Google themselves announced they were keeping the "vast majority" of the patents already issued as well as those still pending. Just 2000 or so are going to Lenovo with the MM purchase. That's easy to find in a routine search.

As far as value I've no idea how something like that is arrived at. 1confused.gif
Obviously (and historically) Google isn't one to offensively assert patents or chase royalties.
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post #48 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Sure Wall Street would freak out initially but they'd get over it. If sales and forward guidance aren't require by the SEC Apple should stop providing it. And it wouldn't be the end of the world if Apple was a bit more open on certain things it's working on. Doesn't have to be 'hey, we're working on a watch' but it could be similar to Cook announcing Mac production in the USA. Cook needs to change the perception that Apple can't innovate its way out of a paper bag without Steve around. And since they've now got long spells with no product announcements they may need to spill a little in order to change the perception. In Walter Isaacson's bio of Steve there's a passage where Steve and Jony are together right after Steve got back from having his liver transplant. Jony complained to Steve that the perception out there was everything came from Steve, everything is Steve's idea and Apple will be screwed once Steve is gone. He complained that it wasn't good for Apple for this perception to be out there. Unfortunately that perception still exists and Cook hasn't done a good job of changing it.

It isn't that Tim Cook hasn't done a good job, it's that the technology hasn't been on his side (e.g., not enough IGZO and LTPS yet), and they're in the middle of transitioning (iOS 7, 64 bit).

Nor are people on his side. When genuine innovation appears, like the new Mac Pro, hardly anybody sees what's so innovative about it.

When real breakthroughs appear, like the shrink treatment given the iPad Air partly because of IGZO, not even Gruber and his pals notice why. Or strategic moves like going for juicy plastic on the 5c and giving it China-specific cell radios, payoff coming late in 2014/early 2015, hardly anybody can imagine for one moment that far ahead.

Tim Cook says wait and see what's happening in 2014, he means it. But watch, hardly anyone will see the innovation.

The world is not smart enough to "get" Tim Cook, or Apple, or Steve Jobs when he was alive.
Edited by Flaneur - 1/31/14 at 8:59am
post #49 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

To turn the focus back on to Apple, I read a great article in The Street this morning, on things Apple should do in the future.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/external/tsmfe/SIG=13ne5q9ce/*http://www.thestreet.com/story/12287155/1/6-things-apple-needs-to-learn-from-facebook-amazon-google-tesla-disney.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

The first two I'm in total agreement with. Apple should cease providing forward guidance (companies like Facebook and Google don't) and should cease providing sales figures (none of their peers do). This quarter was the best ever for Apple in terms of revenues and earnings and yet the stock dropped 10% because Wall Street didn't like iPhone sales figures and didn't like Q2 guidance. Stop giving Wall Street so much information and stop getting into the weeds on conference calls.

Another one I'm in agreement with - if Apple is going to have these long gaps between product launches then they may need to throw people a bone as far as some of the stuff they're working on. Steve was given the benefit of the doubt and even if he didn't disclose what Apple was working on everyone just assumed Apple was up to something great. Unfortunately Tim & Co. dont get that benefit of the doubt. Wall Street & others assume no news means Apple is out of ideas besides incremental improvements to existing products. So Tim might need to start being a bit more open to give people confidence that there is some cool shit in the pipeline.

And finally Apple really needs to up its game in software and services. Make this stuff best in class with frequent updates and improvements. We're starting to see some of that but a lot more can be done here, IMO.

Overall one of the better "Apple needs to..." articles I've read in a while. Not hyperbolic, not Apple is DOOMED, but a sober piece with some good advice from someone who is long on AAPL.

 

I don't see this as a sober piece at all. It's from a purely stockholder perspective.

Just because Facebook and Amazon don't provide forward guidance then neither should Apple. Really? Amazon doesn't say how many Kindles are being sold because that is not their business.  Kindle is just the mean to sell you other stuff. Apple sells an iPhone to make money on it.

The iTunes stuff they sell is just a bonus. As for Facebook, their whole business it to advertise. Period.

 

Another good one is that Apple should let people in on their secrets. Again really? They want Apple to get into the vaporware business? Just to prompt up the stock?

 

Here's another doozy. Why isn't Apple going on a spending spree? Their example, Twitter. Oh really? And then what? Make Twitter an iOS exclusive? Or should they maintain it everywhere?

 

Finally, why aren't they buying more of their own shares?  Personally I wish they could, in one felt swoop take themselves off Nasdaq and give everyone at Wall street the middle finger. They are doing it slowly and good for them.  Doing it at Carl Icahn pace would only benefit Carl Icahn. So yeah screw him.

post #50 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Sorry, the Street is just looking for page views.

Speaking of streets, Amazon is way down today.

If the spell is finally broken, look out below.1eek.gif
post #51 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


Anant, Google themselves announced they were keeping the "vast majority" of the patents already issued as well as those still pending. Just 2000 or so are going to Lenovo with the MM purchase. That's easy to find in a routine search.

As far as value I've no idea how something like that is arrived at. 1confused.gif
Obviously (and historically) Google isn't one to offensively assert patents or chase royalties.

Perhaps they kept it because Lenovo didn’t think it was worth much (relative to what Google was asking). Neither you nor I know that.

 

Patents are often valued using Real Options valuation techniques. And, as to whether Google is ‘offensive’ on the patent front, I’ll gladly admit that I don’t keep track, but I vaguely recall there was a case or two (in the EU?) that were swatted down when MM (which, at that time was owned by Google already) asserted some patents? Maybe I am wrong, but perhaps you could clarify?

post #52 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDBA View Post
 

 

I don't see this as a sober piece at all. It's from a purely stockholder perspective.

Just because Facebook and Amazon don't provide forward guidance then neither should Apple. Really? Amazon doesn't say how many Kindles are being sold because that is not their business.  Kindle is just the mean to sell you other stuff. Apple sells an iPhone to make money on it.

The iTunes stuff they sell is just a bonus. As for Facebook, their whole business it to advertise. Period.

 

Another good one is that Apple should let people in on their secrets. Again really? They want Apple to get into the vaporware business? Just to prompt up the stock?

 

Here's another doozy. Why isn't Apple going on a spending spree? Their example, Twitter. Oh really? And then what? Make Twitter an iOS exclusive? Or should they maintain it everywhere?

 

Finally, why aren't they buying more of their own shares?  Personally I wish they could, in one felt swoop take themselves off Nasdaq and give everyone at Wall street the middle finger. They are doing it slowly and good for them.  Doing it at Carl Icahn pace would only benefit Carl Icahn. So yeah screw him.

 

Hardly anyone gives guidance.  Its pure stupidity.  The only reason why you would give guidance is to assure stockholders you are not going out of business next quarter.  All it does is take the focus off of the current Quarter and give Wall Street something else to pick on.

 

Unit numbers are not needed.  It does not hurt Samsung or ANY ONE ELSE in the entire mobile business.  Thats right.  No one else releases audited unit numbers for phones and tablets.  Why should Apple open itself up too another target?

post #53 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

To turn the focus back on to Apple, I read a great article in The Street this morning, on things Apple should do in the future.

http://us.rd.yahoo.com/finance/external/tsmfe/SIG=13ne5q9ce/*http://www.thestreet.com/story/12287155/1/6-things-apple-needs-to-learn-from-facebook-amazon-google-tesla-disney.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

 

One of the best Apple articles I've read in a long time.

 

Bottom line is this:  If you give Wall Street 99 items that are good news but 1 item that is bad news they will focus on the bad news. PERIOD.  Look at the last Qtr.  It was an amazing quarter.  They blew away Wall Streets EPS estimate.  They crushed it on the top and bottom line.  They smashed Wall Streets gross margin estimate and Averaging selling price of iPhones and iPads were higher than any of the analysis predicted.

 

But Apple gave Wall Street an opening.  Unit sales and guidance.  Without the information the stock would probably be close to $600 right now instead of sub $500.  What a fuking joke.

 

Guidance is worthless at this point.  All it does is take away from the ACTUAL RESULTS of the quarter.  Apple had an awesome quarter but all Wall St is focused on is next quarter.  Lets worry about next quarter when its done, OKAY!  Let us focus on the current quarter.  They can give some hints about what they expect the next quarter.  Say some BS like we are extremely excited about ChinaMobile roll out, ect.  But don't be giving Revenue estimates that Wall street will pick apart any way they see fit. 

 

And as we have seen TIME and TIME again Wall Street totally ignores Apple's guidance anyway.  Apple hit and exceeded their high range yet Wall St still punished them.  Stop this clown show.  No more guidance.  Stop feeding the TROLLS.

 

And stop giving unit numbers.  No one else does.  Not Amazon, Not Google, Not Samsung.  You can release a general statement like we just sold our 300,000,000 iPhone.  But please stop giving exact numbers EVERY QUARTER.  All this does is open the way for nit picking and comparing sales to some stupid white box BS figures.

 

Keep it simple.  Let the financials speak for themself.  Apple made more profit in ONE QUARTER than Google made in the ENTIRE YEAR 2013.  Let that speak for itself.  We dont need to hear about channel inventory, supply constraints, currency flux, ect.  BS. Bs.  Its just fuel to feed the Wall St manipulators.

I too am coming around to the view that Apple needs to provide less info – and no guidance at all – to Wall Street. For instance, they’re the only company that bothers to provide data on actual quantities shipped and channel inventory data (so that we can estimate actual sales). Samsung, Amazon, Google etc provide no such info.

 

The list of companies that don’t provide any guidance at all includes GE, McDonalds, Google, Berkshire Hathaway, Coca Cola…. The list goes on.

 

Wall Street can stew in its own pile. (There may be some short term announcement effects, but screw that).

 

More generally, Cook and Oppenheimer have to manage WS and the way WS forms expectations (including the data they’re fed) far better than they’re currently doing. It’s frustrating to watch.

post #54 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Perhaps they kept it because Lenovo didn’t think it was worth much (relative to what Google was asking). Neither you nor I know that.

Patents are often valued using Real Options valuation techniques. And, as to whether Google is ‘offensive’ on the patent front, I’ll gladly admit that I don’t keep track, but I vaguely recall there was a case or two (in the EU?) that were swatted down when MM (which, at that time was owned by Google already) asserted some patents? Maybe I am wrong, but perhaps you could clarify?

AFAIK there's been no new patent cases filed by MM since Google purchased them. Anything you remember was initiated when Motorola proper was still the owner. Even Google themselves have only filed a single patent infringement action in their entire 16 year history, and that happened last year with British Telecom. That was prompted by several lawsuits filed against Google from "trolls" being armed with BT patents.
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post #55 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDBA View Post

I don't see this as a sober piece at all. It's from a purely stockholder perspective.
Just because Facebook and Amazon don't provide forward guidance then neither should Apple. Really? Amazon doesn't say how many Kindles are being sold because that is not their business.  Kindle is just the mean to sell you other stuff. Apple sells an iPhone to make money on it.
The iTunes stuff they sell is just a bonus. As for Facebook, their whole business it to advertise. Period.

Another good one is that Apple should let people in on their secrets. Again really? They want Apple to get into the vaporware business? Just to prompt up the stock?

Here's another doozy. Why isn't Apple going on a spending spree? Their example, Twitter. Oh really? And then what? Make Twitter an iOS exclusive? Or should they maintain it everywhere?

Finally, why aren't they buying more of their own shares?  Personally I wish they could, in one felt swoop take themselves off Nasdaq and give everyone at Wall street the middle finger. They are doing it slowly and good for them.  Doing it at Carl Icahn pace would only benefit Carl Icahn. So yeah screw him.
How did Apple providing unit sales and forward guidance help them this quarter? It was a phenomenal quarter - highest revenue and profits in Apple's history. Most likely the biggest profits of any corporation this quarter. And yet the stock was down 10%. Why? Because Wall Street didn't like iPhone sales number and thought forward guidance was weak. If it's not required don't provide it. Give iOS or iTunes account figures during keynotes but stop providing quarterly sales figures. It's not doing them any favors. As far as letting people in on the secret sauce, I'm not suggesting they give people tours of Jony Ive's design lab. But if Apple's new product cycle is to go for 6-9 months with no new product releases then I think they have to do something to tide people over, something to get people excited about what's coming. Right now the meme on Apple is they're out of ideas and all they know how to do is iterate on existing products. Cook & Co. need to change that meme. Quit allowing perception to become reality.
post #56 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

AFAIK there's been no new patent cases filed by MM since Google purchased them. Anything you remember was initiated when Motorola proper was still the owner. Even Google themselves have only filed a single patent infringement action in their entire 16 year history, and that happened last year with British Telecom. That was prompted by several lawsuits filed against Google from "trolls" being armed with BT patents.

As I said, I have not been following it. I am sure you’re right.

 

But as many have noted elsewhere, Google’s historically been at the receiving end of a number of lawsuits over their apparent disdain for IP in a wide range of arenas (including the case of Android, albeit by proxy). Perhaps they took over MM and realized that most of the patents were not worth litigating, since they’re standards-essential and such. Given that the hardware piece of it was a rapidly declining business anyway, and managing hardware is a very different ball-game than writing software, they decided to jettison MM to Lenovo.

 

We’ll know more when they report end of year results, e.g., if they took a writedown for MM.

post #57 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post
 

What an ignominious end to the company that invented the mobile phone.

 

Best

I LOVE the word "ignominious".  Excellent job sir. 

 

I'm going to reserve judgement on the wearables until I start seeing some killer applications.   I think it's going to take some truly awesome (and accurate) sensors beyond what i'm seeing in 80 % today. 

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #58 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

As I said, I have not been following it. I am sure you’re right.

But as many have noted elsewhere, Google’s historically been at the receiving end of a number of lawsuits over their apparent disdain for IP in a wide range of arenas (including the case of Android, albeit by proxy). Perhaps they took over MM and realized that most of the patents were not worth litigating, since they’re standards-essential and such. Given that the hardware piece of it was a rapidly declining business anyway, and managing hardware is a very different ball-game than writing software, they decided to jettison MM to Lenovo.

We’ll know more when they report end of year results, e.g., if they took a writedown for MM.

Apple has been on the receiving end of a number of lawsuits over IP. In fact over the past five years they're neck and neck with Google. Does that mean they both have a disdain for others intellectual property?
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post #59 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post
 

I LOVE the word "ignominious".  Excellent job sir. 

 

I'm going to reserve judgement on the wearables until I start seeing some killer applications.   I think it's going to take some truly awesome (and accurate) sensors beyond what i'm seeing in 80 % today. 

Thanks H. :)

 

I agree. The current crop of "wearables" is uninspiring, to say the least.

 

It'll be interesting to see Apple's offerings! 

 

Best.

post #60 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

How did Apple providing unit sales and forward guidance help them this quarter? It was a phenomenal quarter - highest revenue and profits in Apple's history. Most likely the biggest profits of any corporation this quarter. And yet the stock was down 10%. Why? Because Wall Street didn't like iPhone sales number and thought forward guidance was weak. If it's not required don't provide it. Give iOS or iTunes account figures during keynotes but stop providing quarterly sales figures. It's not doing them any favors. As far as letting people in on the secret sauce, I'm not suggesting they give people tours of Jony Ive's design lab. But if Apple's new product cycle is to go for 6-9 months with no new product releases then I think they have to do something to tide people over, something to get people excited about what's coming. Right now the meme on Apple is they're out of ideas and all they know how to do is iterate on existing products. Cook & Co. need to change that meme. Quit allowing perception to become reality.

Your last sentences there. Maybe rather than saying this over and over (not just you), we should try to come up with something that we think would work for the tech press/haters/WS cynics that Tim Cook can say. I'm pretty sure he's thought long and hard about this, along with the PR people and Phil Schiller, etc., on what to do about it.

What we've seen is their answer, I'm sure of it."We've got some great things in the pipeline for 2014" and so on. "If that's not good enough for the skeptical, cynical blockheads out there, then so be it. We aren't going begging for excitement and anticipation and giving away our roadmap."

When the innovation does appear, like the Mac Pro or the A7, nobody sees the work they did, another problem. But I guarantee that he thinks the innovations will speak for themselves when they appear.

So what do you think he could say that would work? Let's work on it and post it on Apple 2.0 .
post #61 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

And neither will Google...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!
Oh thanks for that! Made my day!
post #62 of 100

No more guidance

No more unit sales

No more insights about def revenue, currency flux, ect.

 

Keep it simple.

Don't give Wall Street ammo.

 

Total Revenue

Total Profit

 

Thats all anyone needs to know if a company is making money or not.

 

The rest should be glowing optimisum.  Watch what those clowns at Amazon, Google, and Facebook say during their conference calls.  Its all about selling.  There was no reason for Cook to say they failed to realize the demand for the 5C was going to be weak. No reason.  He should have just said the demand for the 5S was amazing.  We hear enough FUD from the media and hedge fund clowns.  There was no reason to explain channel inventory.  No reason to mention that carier policies in the US is hurting renewal frequency.  Thats just causing fear.

 

You can't be honest and tell the whole story to Wall Street.  They will twist the truth and tell lies to manipulate stock price.  They need to be as secretive about the financial data as they are with product secrets.  Steve Jobs did it right.  He gave guidance but it was so ridiculously low that everyone knew not to take it seriously. 

 

Good Earnings, Bad Guidance = Stock goes down

Good Earnings, Bad Units, Good Guidance = Stock goes down

Bad Earnings, Good Units, Good Guidance = Stock goes down

 

The only way the stock goes up is if earning is good, units are good, and guidance is good.  Mess up on any of those and the stock tanks.


Edited by sog35 - 1/31/14 at 10:21am
post #63 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Huh? All you showed me is a filing (from the time of purchase) that says "we attributed $5.5B to acquired patents and developed technology" at the time they bought MM.

 

That could be worth a hill of beans today (or for the matter, even then). Is there anything that points to the fact that it's still worth $5.5B or that Lenovo did not buy it?

 

Perhaps you're the clueless person here?

 

Don't pretend like you're dumb. Every patents monetary value is an estimation only. All that matters is what someone is willing to pay for them. And when that was filed, that something was $5.5 billion.

post #64 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Your last sentences there. Maybe rather than saying this over and over (not just you), we should try to come up with something that we think would work for the tech press/haters/WS cynics that Tim Cook can say. I'm pretty sure he's thought long and hard about this, along with the PR people and Phil Schiller, etc., on what to do about it.

What we've seen is their answer, I'm sure of it."We've got some great things in the pipeline for 2014" and so on. "If that's not good enough for the skeptical, cynical blockheads out there, then so be it. We aren't going begging for excitement and anticipation and giving away our roadmap."

When the innovation does appear, like the Mac Pro or the A7, nobody sees the work they did, another problem. But I guarantee that he thinks the innovations will speak for themselves when they appear.

So what do you think he could say that would work? Let's work on it and post it on Apple 2.0 .
I said it on another thread. Cook needs to reiterate what Ive and Federighi have said before: new and different are easy, but better is hard. Or what Ive said in the 5S video: Apple isn't about technology for technologies sake; it's interested in doing things that truly enhance the user experience. Just keep hammering this point home over and over again. And throw the dogs a bone once. Apple gave us an early look at the Mac Pro. How about doing something similar with Apple TV? Or maybe some of their software programs? But really I think Apple should move away from announcing almost all new products in September and October. Spread out product announcements so there aren't these long lulls where others can fill the vacuum with FUD and D&G.
post #65 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post
 

 

Don't pretend like you're dumb. Every patents monetary value is an estimation only. All that matters is what someone is willing to pay for them. And when that was filed, that something was $5.5 billion.

 

That doesn't mean its worth even 1% of that in reality.  Bottom line is in order to make the accounting books balance you need to record assets on the books at the same value as the amount paid.  So they just booked it too an intangible asset or goodwill.  FYI, Google has over $17,000,000,000 booked to goodwill and intangible assets.  Great way to hide expenses (same thing Enron did).  In contrast Apple only has $5,000,000,000 booked to goodwill and intangible assets.  So are you telling me Google owns over 350% more goodwill and IP than Apple? LOLLLLOLOOLOLLLLOLLLL!!!! 

 

Google will probably keep that $4,000,000,000 in patents on its balance sheet as an asset for many years.  Which is a total joke.  They know its not worth that much but they don't want to recognize the loss any time soon.

 

And what is the use of those patents now that they won't even be making phones anymore? 

post #66 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post

Don't pretend like you're dumb. Every patents monetary value is an estimation only. All that matters is what someone is willing to pay for them. And when that was filed, that something was $5.5 billion.

Perhaps you're the one playing dumb. (Or perhaps you're not playing, for all I know).

My point was about what they're worth now, not what Google thought (or more precisely, said they thought) it was worth then.

Let's continue the conversation when you've figured out that difference.
post #67 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I said it on another thread. Cook needs to reiterate what Ive and Federighi have said before: new and different are easy, but better is hard. Or what Ive said in the 5S video: Apple isn't about technology for technologies sake; it's interested in doing things that truly enhance the user experience. Just keep hammering this point home over and over again. And throw the dogs a bone once. Apple gave us an early look at the Mac Pro. How about doing something similar with Apple TV? Or maybe some of their software programs? But really I think Apple should move away from announcing almost all new products in September and October. Spread out product announcements so there aren't these long lulls where others can fill the vacuum with FUD and D&G.

Dolce and Gabbana? 1smile.gif.

Cook shouldnt waste his time appeasing analysts any more than he has to. There are four qtrly conf calls already. Cook shouldn't have to repeat himself. Apple also shouldn't announce products that aren't ready to ship. The Pro was an exception because the previous release was a long time ago.
post #68 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


Perhaps you're the one playing dumb. (Or perhaps you're not playing, for all I know).

My point was about what they're worth now, not what Google thought (or more precisely, said they thought) it was worth then.

Let's continue the conversation when you've figured out that difference.

 

Google bought them on 2012. Do you honestly think the value associated with those patents has changed much in the past two years? If anything, they are probably worth more now.

 

And if you know how company held patents work, we'll never publicly see a value associated those patents again. Unless Google sells them, which I highly doubt will happen anytime soon. The $5.5 billion is by far the best estimate we have.

 

Find me something that says otherwise or let it go.

 

More importantly, what's your point?

post #69 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Dolce and Gabbana? 1smile.gif.

Cook shouldnt waste his time appeasing analysts any more than he has to. There are four qtrly conf calls already. Cook shouldn't have to repeat himself. Apple also shouldn't announce products that aren't ready to ship. The Pro was an exception because the previous release was a long time ago.
It's not just appeasing analysts. It's changing the narrative around Apple. Keeping perception from becoming reality. If Apple had product launches spaced out more this wouldn't be such an issue as the products could speak for themselves. But Apple has chosen to release most products in a two month time frame and for the rest of the year pretty much go quiet. That leaves a vacuum for others to fill and it's being filled with plenty of FUD and D&G.
post #70 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

 

And what is the use of those patents now that they won't even be making phones anymore? 

Nail, meet head.

post #71 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Apple has been on the receiving end of a number of lawsuits over IP. In fact over the past five years they're neck and neck with Google. Does that mean they both have a disdain for others intellectual property?

Non-sequitur.

post #72 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Nail, meet head.

 

Not at all.

 

Why do you think Google just purchased the nest hardware team? This may now be the first time Google actually does make a phone.

Motorola was separate and made it's own phones, never Google.

post #73 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post
 

 

Google bought them on 2012. Do you honestly think the value associated with those patents has changed much in the past two years? If anything, they are probably worth more now.

 

And if you know how company held patents work, we'll never publicly see a value associated those patents again. Unless Google sells them, which I highly doubt will happen anytime soon. The $5.5 billion is by far the best estimate we have.

 

Find me something that says otherwise or let it go.

 

More importantly, what's your point?

 

Worth more now!!! What a clown.

 

They only were able to get $10,000,000 from Microsoft.

 

Like I said its an accounting issue.  They need to book the difference between the cash they paid to buy Motorolla and the value of the hard assets.  The difference goes to bull Shit stuff like intangible assets (patents) and goodwill.

 

I'm an CPA with SEC experience.  I know how all kind of BS goes into intangible assets /goodwill when companies are bought for more than book value (value of Hard assets)

post #74 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

 

Worth more now!!! What a clown.

 

They only were able to get $10,000,000 from Microsoft.

 

Like I said its an accounting issue.  They need to book the difference between the cash they paid to buy Motorolla and the value of the hard assets.  The difference goes to bull Shit stuff like intangible assets (patents) and goodwill.

 

I'm an CPA with SEC experience.  I know how all kind of BS goes into intangible assets /goodwill when companies are bought for more than book value (value of Hard assets)

 

So you are trying to say a patent's worth is only what it can win in a lawsuit? I don't know where you work, but that's not GAAP.

post #75 of 100

Implantables. Leapfrog wearables.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVekrZ-H5Pc

I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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I admit to being a Fanatical Moderate. I Disdain the Inane. Vyizderzominymororzizazizdenderizorziz?

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post #76 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

It's not just appeasing analysts. It's changing the narrative around Apple. Keeping perception from becoming reality. If Apple had product launches spaced out more this wouldn't be such an issue as the products could speak for themselves. But Apple has chosen to release most products in a two month time frame and for the rest of the year pretty much go quiet. That leaves a vacuum for others to fill and it's being filled with plenty of FUD and D&G.

There's always going to be a lull in news cycle. Every day Apple is not talking is a lull. So you don't think there were any rumors between the iPhone and iPad announcements last year? Apple releases products on its own schedule and for its own reasons. Quieting WS is not one of those reasons.
post #77 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post

Google's sale of Motorola did not include the Motorola Patents valued at $6 billion. Those stayed with Google. Overall, Google's acquisition of Motorola was a small loss. I'm positive Google is very happy with their decision to buy them. Glad to see you don't know anything about this.

Let say 6 billion dollars worth of the patent (rock star co paid less than that for more useful patent) 12 billion dollar purchase price add 2 billion loses over the period google run it. That's 14 billion , sold it at 3 billion (the small change enough to start a war) that's 5 billion dollars lost. And how much did Google make last year?

Where Apple made yet another best quarterly profit , of course Apple is DOOMED for the 37th year ... We live in an interesting world.
post #78 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by NexusPhan View Post
 

 

So you are trying to say a patent's worth is only what it can win in a lawsuit? I don't know where you work, but that's not GAAP.

 

I'm saying the patent is not worth what its ASSIGNED on paper.

 

Anytime you buy a company you receive HARD assets like cash, inventory, property, ect.  The amount you paid in EXCESS is ASSIGNED to intangible assets like Patents.  In no way, shape, or form does that mean those patents are actually worth that much.  PERIOD.  You are arguing they are.  I'm saying they are not since they only generated $10,000,000 from them so far and many have no use now that they won't be making hardware.

 

Have you ever heard of a company buying Patents by itself for $5,000,000,000? 

Especially when most are SEP's?

post #79 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelchu View Post


Let say 6 billion dollars worth of the patent (rock star co paid less than that for more useful patent) 12 billion dollar purchase price add 2 billion loses over the period google run it. That's 14 billion , sold it at 3 billion (the small change enough to start a war) that's 5 billion dollars lost. And how much did Google make last year?

Where Apple made yet another best quarterly profit , of course Apple is DOOMED for the 37th year ... We live in an interesting world.

 

Add in transaction cost.

Most investment banks charge 3-5% of the gross sale.  Thats $300,000,000

Add employee cost like golden parchutes, severance, workers comp, unemployement, ect.  That another 200,000,000

Add cost of selling off buildings and non-performing assets, lawyer fees.  Another 100,000,000

 

And don't forget time value of money.  Sure they will be getting tax breaks but it will take YEARS for that to happen.

post #80 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

What is the point of this article exactly?

1. mention Google
2. serve with Google ads
3. profit!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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