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Palm or Newton? Which is better?

post #1 of 15
2/17/02 at 4:08pm
Thread Starter 
Well, in order to prevent the contamination of all threads that are semi-relevant to either platform with this question, I thought I'd start this thread.

Newton gets my vote. I've had 3 palm OS devices (V, Visor and clie). The V I got before I ever saw the first newton. I was extremely happy with it. Then I got a visor for expandability. I bought my first newt shortly thereafter. A 130. Not great because it was so slow, but the potential was IMMENSE. I decided that I would go back to a POS (palm OS, pun intended) because the newt was not feasible. But then I got my hands on a 2100. I could never go back to a POS device again. Things are just better on the newt. Want to copy some text from one app to another? Highlight it, tap & drag to the side of the screen, go where you want it to be and drag it there. Sheer brilliance! The extensibility of the OS is amazing, using a great filing system (if that's what it's called), soups, making data accessible to any application that wants them. Everything on the Palm end is just a cheap imitation, IMNHO.

Your 2¢?
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post #2 of 15
2/17/02 at 4:59pm
[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>Well, in order to prevent the contamination of all threads that are semi-relevant to either platform with this question, I thought I'd start this thread.

Newton gets my vote. I've had 3 palm OS devices (V, Visor and clie). The V I got before I ever saw the first newton. I was extremely happy with it. Then I got a visor for expandability. I bought my first newt shortly thereafter. A 130. Not great because it was so slow, but the potential was IMMENSE. I decided that I would go back to a POS (palm OS, pun intended) because the newt was not feasible. But then I got my hands on a 2100. I could never go back to a POS device again. Things are just better on the newt. Want to copy some text from one app to another? Highlight it, tap & drag to the side of the screen, go where you want it to be and drag it there. Sheer brilliance! The extensibility of the OS is amazing, using a great filing system (if that's what it's called), soups, making data accessible to any application that wants them. Everything on the Palm end is just a cheap imitation, IMNHO.

Your 2¢?</strong><hr></blockquote>

If Newtons were so good, then why did they die off (and don't give me that BS that they were, "ahead of their time" or they had "bad marketing" or whatever you might make up excuses about)? And on the Palm, if you want to copy something, simply highlight it, stroke on the graffiti, then write "c". Go where you want it, stroke, write "p". Kinda like cmd-c and cmd-v...

And Palms have much superior handwriting recognition. If you want, I can show you examples of terrible newton handwriting recognition (OS 2.1 is just as bad).
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post #3 of 15
2/17/02 at 5:22pm
By the way - The real SimCity was actually ported to Palm, and it runs great. So far I haven't come across SimCity for Newton...does that suggest something? Also, there are no color Newtons!! That's terrible!

[ 02-17-2002: Message edited by: FreshApple ]</p>
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post #4 of 15
2/17/02 at 5:25pm
[quote]If Newtons were so good, then why did they die off <hr></blockquote>

The Newton was spun off into it's own company called Newton, Inc. It was a subsidiary of Apple Computer. When Steve Jobs came back to Apple, he ordered the Newton group to be reincorporated into Apple.

A few months later, Jobs killed Newton development, saying that Apple was going to focus all of it's attentions to the Mac platform. He said that Apple did not have the resources to continue the development of the platform and that the Newton would be replaced by a Mac OS device in 1999. That device never came.

[quote]And Palms have much superior handwriting recognition. If you want, I can show you examples of terrible newton handwriting recognition (OS 2.1 is just as bad). <hr></blockquote>

What a joke. Why defend Palm in one of their own self- admitted weak areas? The Rosetta handwriting engine that surfaced in OS 2.0 was highly superior than the handwriting found in OS 1.X. Newton OS 2.1 only made the handwriting recognition better. Plus, the device learns along with you, so the more you use it, the easier it is to use. I'm at the point where my Newton hardly ever makes a mistake when I write down a note. I can now do it very quickly as well.

The Palm just can't compete with this. Plus, how is grafitti 'handwriting recognition'? You have to use Palm's own characters to write anything down. That's completely ridiculous. With the Newton, you can actually use your own handwriting.

That's just to refute some of the statements in the above post. I'm sorry, but from the sounds of it, he never used a Newton before in his life.

He also doesn't seem to realize that Apple not only killed off the Newton, but printers, scanners, and other peripherals as well. They used the resources from those projects to make the iMac, which saved Apple in the end. I just wish that Newton, Inc. had lived on. Newton OS 3.0 had so many promising features, including support for color and larger storage devices. That would have blown the competition out of the water.
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post #5 of 15
2/17/02 at 5:27pm
Okay, just saw the SimCity comment.

If a game that a platform has that another doesn't is what makes it superior, then maybe you should be using a Windows PC instead of a Mac.
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post #6 of 15
2/17/02 at 9:17pm
Thread Starter 
Some other newt advantages:

1. sketches right in your notes. And live resizing of them.

2. The assist feature: write "3:00 with Steve" and tap assist and it will put it right in your datebook.
3. Non-volatile flash memory. Your battery runs out on a Newt and your stuff is still there. Your battery runs out on a POS and you lose it ALL.

4. The Newt is a PIM in and of itself (partly because of the NV flash, your data is mostly safe), the POS is an extension of your PIM program on your computer.

More later...
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post #7 of 15
2/18/02 at 12:13am
LoL Saying Palm is better than Newton is like saying roaches are better than human.

Yeah dinosaurs are extinct too, are you sure you can fight one on one with them if they do exist now?

I think it says something when a company got kicked out from Nasdaq top 100.

[ 02-18-2002: Message edited by: ihxo ]</p>
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post #8 of 15
2/18/02 at 7:33am
[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>Some other newt advantages:

1. sketches right in your notes. And live resizing of them.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

You can do this on Palm too with the right program.

[quote]<strong>
2. The assist feature: write "3:00 with Steve" and tap assist and it will put it right in your datebook.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

On the Palm, hit the datebook button, tap the time, start writing away.

[quote]<strong>
3. Non-volatile flash memory. Your battery runs out on a Newt and your stuff is still there. Your battery runs out on a POS and you lose it ALL.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Next time you start talking about another handheld, actually use it first. You'll find that on a Palm OS device that most newer Palms have rechargable lithium ion batteries that recharge when the Palm is in the cradle. I've never run out of battery life on mine yet, and I've been using it heavily for several months, putting it in the cradle almost every night to conveinently charge. And on all the Palms I've owned, I have never lost all my data. NEVER.

And if you DID lose your data (probably because you were stupid and didn't know how to use it), then all you need to do is stick it in the cradle, hit the hot-sync button, and voila! All your data is back exactly how you had it. Isn't that nice?

[quote]<strong>
4. The Newt is a PIM in and of itself (partly because of the NV flash, your data is mostly safe), the POS is an extension of your PIM program on your computer.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

The Palm is in no way just an "extension" of the computer program. You can use a Palm entirely without ever hot-syncing it with a computer! Duh!! You need to go find yourself a Palm and actually use it in an un-biased way, and you'll actually see some of the cool things it has.

You won't find color on a Newton either. And there are far more accessories available for Palms. Plus, more people own Palms than any other handheld, so you are more likely to run into someone with a Palm.

You all need a lesson on checking your facts before you open your nasty mouths and start animadverting things.
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post #9 of 15
2/18/02 at 11:04am
I don't think you have been reading his posts, he has owned several Palms, pretty nice models too.

I like Palm, I think they make a good product, but the Newton and the Palm aren't in the same category. A Palm is a date book, a Newton is a stripped down, handheld computer.

And who the hell is going to play SimCity on their Palm?!?

Someone is really out there and just flaming.

I have an upgraded MP2000 and its awesome, would never give it up. It connects to my college network via ethernet and can sync to a Mac in my room running OS via Classic across the network if I want it to.

Your Palm, could well, hmm, yeah in a month or two or three, might be able to sync with OS X native, but from what I can tell now it doesn't work in Classic. And even when it is native, I will be on ethernet printing to my network LaserWriter and syncing with my PowerBook [Pismo] while across campus checking my email in SimpleMail [IMAP] client.
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post #10 of 15
2/18/02 at 12:19pm
[quote]Originally posted by FreshApple:
<strong>The Palm is in no way just an "extension" of the computer program. You can use a Palm entirely without ever hot-syncing it with a computer!
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah and I can use my PC without power supply too, see it's a great foot stool.

[quote]Originally posted by FreshApple:
<strong>You won't find color on a Newton either. And there are far more accessories available for Palms. Plus, more people own Palms than any other handheld, so you are more likely to run into someone with a Palm. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Color Newton !? Like I care, look at it this way, you are not using a color palm too, and have you ever used a Newton ?? It got grayscale way way before palm got grayscale. And Newton was killed in 1997, any human being in the right mind will know why Newton doesn't have color screen.

Then again, the population of roaches is way higher than human too how about you go change your DNA and be a roachman maybe you can be good friends with spiderman, you can't join justice league though.

[quote]Originally posted by FreshApple:
<strong>You all need a lesson on checking your facts before you open your nasty mouths and start animadverting things.</strong><hr></blockquote>

hehe it's fun to see when somebody doesn't check any facts and ask other people to check their facts.
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post #11 of 15
2/18/02 at 2:14pm
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by FreshApple:
<strong>
You can do this on Palm too with the right program.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ah, you see that's the key. With the right program. And what program would that be, by the way? Could you provide a link to it so I can check it out?

[quote]<strong>
On the Palm, hit the datebook button, tap the time, start writing away.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Again, you are missing the point. I can do it that way on the newt, too. But the point is that it's smart enough to understand what I want to do.

[quote]<strong>
Next time you start talking about another handheld, actually use it first. You'll find that on a Palm OS device that most newer Palms have rechargable lithium ion batteries that recharge when the Palm is in the cradle. I've never run out of battery life on mine yet, and I've been using it heavily for several months, putting it in the cradle almost every night to conveinently charge. And on all the Palms I've owned, I have never lost all my data. NEVER.

And if you DID lose your data (probably because you were stupid and didn't know how to use it), then all you need to do is stick it in the cradle, hit the hot-sync button, and voila! All your data is back exactly how you had it. Isn't that nice?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

First, if you read my initial (that means first) post, you would see that I've had palms and I've used them extensively. I have, unfortunately, lost data, though. I was replacing the batteries in my visor. I guess the 3 seconds it took to put new batteries in were enough to wipe it out. Of course, I lost some notes that I took during the day because I didn't want to hotsync before replacing the batteries, lest it die in the cradle because hotsyncing can be an unpredictable process at times. But again, you miss the point. I can take the battery pack out of my newt and leave it out for an indefinite amount of time and my data would still be there. And what if you actually travel with the palm and your cradle for some strange reason doesn't make it on the trip with you? You are SOL, even with, or I should say, especially with, the built in rechargable batteries.

[quote]<strong>
The Palm is in no way just an "extension" of the computer program. You can use a Palm entirely without ever hot-syncing it with a computer! Duh!! You need to go find yourself a Palm and actually use it in an un-biased way, and you'll actually see some of the cool things it has.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok, I'll grant you your first point because it's a matter of opinion. But, just so you know, I have used palms and I prefer the newt. I know the drawbacks of each platform and I still like the newt better.

[quote]<strong>
animadvert
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Time for new word of the day toilet paper, don't you think?
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post #12 of 15
2/18/02 at 2:42pm
This is a bizarre debate. The Newton is a different 'generation' of product than the Palm. They are not competing products. Considering the age of the most recent Newton, it is an AMAZING device. Obviously Palms have some things that Newtons don't (5 years newer technology!).

That you can even begin to compare the two is saying WAY more for the Newton than the Palm.
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post #13 of 15
2/18/02 at 3:12pm
But the sad part to me is that 5 years later the Palm is not 5 years ahead of where Newton left off.
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post #14 of 15
2/20/02 at 4:37am
FreshApple, you've competely ignored my posts, so I'm not even sure if you've read them. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

[quote]And there are far more accessories available for Palms. Plus, more people own Palms than any other handheld, so you are more likely to run into someone with a Palm. <hr></blockquote>

So, if accessories are an advantage, and more people own Windows PCs than any other computer, then you should be using a Windows PC instead of a Mac, right?

[quote]You won't find color on a Newton either. <hr></blockquote>

I spoke about this earlier, and you just seemed to ignore it. If there had been a Newton OS 3.0, there would have been color Newton devices. But Apple killed the device because they needed the resources from the Newton projects to be devoted to the orginal iMac. Plus, in 1997, color backlit screens of that size were thousands of dollars. :eek:

Also, color is really only an advantage for games. You don't need color to browse the web. You don't need color to read emails or jot down a message. While it is true that you can play illegal Game Boy ROMS on your Palm, you have to o/c them for it to work correctly. The 'power' of the Palm is unbelievably low. With the Newton using an ARM at a maximum of up to 220 MHz (with upgrade), the newest Palm is still using a Motorola Dragonball VZ 33 MHz Processor. I know that megahertz doesn't matter in all things, but up until this Palm, most were running at 16 MHz. So the Newton is using a processor just about 10 times more powerful than the current Palm.

Plus, we're still talking about a device that came out 5 years ago vs. today's 'latest and greatest'. The fact that the Newton is still so advanced that it can directly compete with the Palm is not only a testament to what a great device that the Newton is, but it shows how ridiculously outdated Palm is. Right now, there is no reason at all for me to 'upgrade' to a newer device, and for most people, unless Palm can provide a compelling reason to upgrade (which they haven't to date), then people will not upgrade their device.
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post #15 of 15
2/20/02 at 1:14pm
[quote]Originally posted by Fran441:
<strong>FreshApple, you've competely ignored my posts, so I'm not even sure if you've read them.</strong><hr></blockquote>

He has a tendency to ignore posts that he can't make rebuttal to anyways we should just leave this matter alone now, I think he had some miss-understanding about newton before.
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