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Steve Jobs wanted Sony's Vaio computers to run Mac OS X - Page 2

post #41 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

Sony and Apple go way back: Sony made the floppy drives for the Mac, and the floptical for the NeXT. Apple's core pro audience has been historically video people, and Sony was (and remains) dominant in that business. For a long time Firewire was the only reasonable way to get your video from the camera to the Mac. However, as pointed out somewhere above, with the iPod Apple very much encroached on Sony's territory, and that was kind of the end of the beautiful friendship.

That's all so true. The Walkman days seem so long ago. I even had a Sony Discman ... and yes that is the spelling!
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post #42 of 68
I just don't buy this.
post #43 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmarcoot View Post

I just don't buy this.

 

Thanks for sharing.

post #44 of 68
This is very likely. We know OS X ran on Intel years before it was released. We know Jobs ran NEXT OS on a Thinkpad. We know he liked Sony. We know he opposed the clones for business not ideological reasons. A limited licence of OS X made sense.
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post #45 of 68
Your mission, should you choose to accept it: Find that VAIO running OS X and post it on eBay.
post #46 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Perfectly reasonable thread. I see no trolls.

He's referring to a deleted post. The drive by poster was calling me racist (apparently saying "Korean brand" makes one racist now), accused the moderators of condoning it, then linked to a troll meme video that's an anti-Apple polemic. I've never heard of the account before, so it was either a new account, or one that is mostly inactive. Either way, I agree that it 100% qualified as a classic troll post.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #47 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

 

Sony and Apple go way back: Sony made the floppy drives for the Mac, and the floptical for the NeXT. Apple's core pro audience has been historically video people, and Sony was (and remains) dominant in that business. For a long time Firewire was the only reasonable way to get your video from the camera to the Mac. However, as pointed out somewhere above, with the iPod Apple very much encroached on Sony's territory, and that was kind of the end of the beautiful friendship.

And, as pointed out above, they made the PowerBook 100 for Apple, back in 1991.

post #48 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveH View Post
 

And, as pointed out above, they made the PowerBook 100 for Apple, back in 1991.

 

I did NOT know that (and I had one of those :))

post #49 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ealvarez View Post
 

Should it be true, people should stop saying "S. Jobs would have never done such thing"...;)

 

The downfalls of idolization and hero worship.  What happens when people spend their life worshipping someone only to find out something about their favorite hero that contradicts all their previous beliefs?


Edited by Haggar - 2/5/14 at 12:14pm
post #50 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

Ah, the downfalls of idolization and hero worship.  What happens when people find out something about their favorite hero that contradicts all their previous beliefs?

Not a real issue for real people.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #51 of 68
Sony is about the only outsider I could see gaining approval. They have some very forward looking products, and they get the idea of an ecosystem with products suggesting something like a family of objects that complement each other. Toshiba would be close. I still have a Portege 2000 ultra slim laptop banging around somewhere that still runs a robotics setup and it's the closest thing to a MBA and it's from 2001?
post #52 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

The downfalls of idolization and hero worship.  What happens when people spend their life worshipping someone only to find out something about their favorite hero that contradicts all their previous beliefs?

You are so desperate to find these gotcha moments that you repeatedly concoct these make believe scenarios you yearn to apply to the masses when they have only, and will only, ever apply to the fringe that you're ironically very much a part of.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/5/14 at 1:51pm

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post #53 of 68
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

The downfalls of idolization and hero worship.  What happens when people spend their life worshipping someone only to find out something about their favorite hero that contradicts all their previous beliefs?

 

Steve supported the clones in the ‘90s and your statements have nothing to do with anything.

post #54 of 68
If I'm not mistaken, Sony also made the Apple monitors in the 90's. In those days, you always went with Trinitron CRTs for color work, and if you didn't see a faint horizontal line about a third of the way down the screen, you were paying too much for a wanna-be. Not sure, but weren't Trinitron CRT screens also in the first iMacs?
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post #55 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

All of the last three (well, not HP anymore, and IBM is out of the business, so that leaves Apple) were premium vendors -- you paid a bit more for the hardware, but, as you say, you got more than just the hardware). Sony had (and still has) the problem that it made some premium machines and some commodity junk.

Sony has also exited the PC business.

Of course, it will take a while for AppleInsider to post real news like that.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #56 of 68
This might have made sense back in 2001 as Sony had their ultra-portable line and I think some had processors with dynamic clocking but they were very expensive. Apple didn't introduce the Macbook Air until 2008.

Apple's designers seem to respect Sony's design style. Jony Ive asked one of their internal designers to mockup what an iPhone would look like if it was made by Sony:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3189309/apple-sony-iphone-design-inspiration-iphone-4-looked-old

That looked like the iPhone 4 back in 2006. Sony doesn't design things that look that nice though. This is Sony's version:

http://www.sonymobile.com/gb/xperia/create/

They got the power button right and it uses front and back glass but it also came after the iPhone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blUhgOJXetM

http://blogs.sonymobile.com/about-us/history/

Sony Bravia TVs were once seen as the best TVs but they started outsourcing the build of them to Samsung so they get killed in the margins. When it comes to a TV, why pay so much for Sony if you can get a TV built by the same company Samsung for a fraction of the price? The problem with Samsung is that they make great components. Their SSDs are best in class, their display panels are good too. Apple uses Samsung SSDs in the Mac line and Samsung displays in the Retina MBPs. Their Toshiba SSDs had problems and lower speed, their LG panels in the rMBP had the ghosting and burn-in issues. They used Sony batteries in their laptops:

http://news.cnet.com/Apple-recalls-1.8-million-batteries/2100-1041_3-6109198.html

Would a partnership have meant they'd let Sony run iOS on their phones and tablets? Sooner or later the need for each company to make money would drive them apart. It could have meant Sony bringing their Playstation franchise to iOS, maybe dualshock controllers but Sony would ultimately have to make a profit somewhere.

They are selling their PC line to an investment company, spinning off TVs to another company, laying off 5000 people (they have ~145,000 employees) and made $1.1b loss last year:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/06/us-sony-results-idUSBREA150AK20140206

In the last quarter, they made:

Cameras - $115m
Games - $172m
Mobile and computers - loss of $120m
TVs - $61m
Components, batteries, image sensors, media - loss of $226m
Movies and distribution - $231m
Music - $207m
Financial Services (Sony Bank) - $455m

They seem to be doing ok in a lot of areas and have a decent amount of assets and cash. It makes sense why they'd make lenses for the iPhone because they can't shift their own mobile devices. I think it would be quite good if they brought their PS1 / PS2 / PS3 library to iOS with the dualshock controller. They have game streaming tech now so it doesn't have to be native but Apple would still have to approve it as it would technically be a 3rd party store (even though Netflix is a 3rd party store too and that's on iOS). A little restructuring and focusing on their profit-making activities should set them on the right track.
post #57 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post


Sony has also exited the PC business.

Of course, it will take a while for AppleInsider to post real news like that.

What? So, who makes the gazillion Vaios you see for sale on the Sony web site?

post #58 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post
 

What? So, who makes the gazillion Vaios you see for sale on the Sony web site?

 

Ah, I see (from Marvin's post) they are ABOUT to sell their PC line to a third party. Sad.

post #59 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

Ah, I see (from Marvin's post) they are ABOUT to sell their PC line to a third party. Sad.

What Sony gets for betting on Microsoft Windows instead of Mac OS.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #60 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

Ah, I see (from Marvin's post) they are ABOUT to sell their PC line to a third party. Sad.

As Marvin linked a couple posts back Sony just announced today it' is selling its PC business and VAIO brand to Japan Industrial Partners. The deal should close in 6 weeks or so.
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post #61 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

This might have made sense back in 2001 as Sony had their ultra-portable line and I think some had processors with dynamic clocking but they were very expensive. Apple didn't introduce the Macbook Air until 2008.

Apple's designers seem to respect Sony's design style. Jony Ive asked one of their internal designers to mockup what an iPhone would look like if it was made by Sony:

http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3189309/apple-sony-iphone-design-inspiration-iphone-4-looked-old

That looked like the iPhone 4 back in 2006. Sony doesn't design things that look that nice though. This is Sony's version:

http://www.sonymobile.com/gb/xperia/create/

They got the power button right and it uses front and back glass but it also came after the iPhone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blUhgOJXetM

http://blogs.sonymobile.com/about-us/history/

Sony Bravia TVs were once seen as the best TVs but they started outsourcing the build of them to Samsung so they get killed in the margins. When it comes to a TV, why pay so much for Sony if you can get a TV built by the same company Samsung for a fraction of the price? The problem with Samsung is that they make great components. Their SSDs are best in class, their display panels are good too. Apple uses Samsung SSDs in the Mac line and Samsung displays in the Retina MBPs. Their Toshiba SSDs had problems and lower speed, their LG panels in the rMBP had the ghosting and burn-in issues. They used Sony batteries in their laptops:

http://news.cnet.com/Apple-recalls-1.8-million-batteries/2100-1041_3-6109198.html

Would a partnership have meant they'd let Sony run iOS on their phones and tablets? Sooner or later the need for each company to make money would drive them apart. It could have meant Sony bringing their Playstation franchise to iOS, maybe dualshock controllers but Sony would ultimately have to make a profit somewhere.

They are selling their PC line to an investment company, spinning off TVs to another company, laying off 5000 people (they have ~145,000 employees) and made $1.1b loss last year:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/06/us-sony-results-idUSBREA150AK20140206

In the last quarter, they made:

Cameras - $115m
Games - $172m
Mobile and computers - loss of $120m
TVs - $61m
Components, batteries, image sensors, media - loss of $226m
Movies and distribution - $231m
Music - $207m
Financial Services (Sony Bank) - $455m

They seem to be doing ok in a lot of areas and have a decent amount of assets and cash. It makes sense why they'd make lenses for the iPhone because they can't shift their own mobile devices. I think it would be quite good if they brought their PS1 / PS2 / PS3 library to iOS with the dualshock controller. They have game streaming tech now so it doesn't have to be native but Apple would still have to approve it as it would technically be a 3rd party store (even though Netflix is a 3rd party store too and that's on iOS). A little restructuring and focusing on their profit-making activities should set them on the right track.

Very nice detailed post! Thanks!

NOTE: Sony seriously needs to regroup and focus. They're doing a great job with their camera CMOS sensors of late... but according to you're break down above... next on the chopping block would be Cameras 1frown.gif

Interesting to note re: cameras - Sony's new mirrorless a7 and a7r plus the Nikon d800 and d800e that use Sony's CMOS sensors are best in class at the moment for resolution and low light. Unfortunately, the Sony's are being knocked rightfully so for lack of attention to detail, like slow focusing, excessively loud shutter sound, and overall bad GUI for settings and features. Software and GUIs have always been Sony's Achilles Heal, but a nasty-loud shutter from the engineers? That's a stumper. 1hmm.gif
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post #62 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


Very nice detailed post! Thanks!

NOTE: Sony seriously needs to regroup and focus. They're doing a great job with their camera CMOS sensors of late... but according to you're break down above... next on the chopping block would be Cameras 1frown.gif

Interesting to note re: cameras - Sony's new mirrorless a7 and a7r plus the Nikon d800 and d800e that use Sony's CMOS sensors are best in class at the moment for resolution and low light. Unfortunately, the Sony's are being knocked rightfully so for lack of attention to detail, like slow focusing, excessively loud shutter sound, and overall bad GUI for settings and features. Software and GUIs have always been Sony's Achilles Heal, but a nasty-loud shutter from the engineers? That's a stumper. 1hmm.gif

 

From the responded-to post, Sony will sell all but the Sony Bank.  Sadly, not really a joke.

post #63 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

From the responded-to post, Sony will sell all but the Sony Bank.  Sadly, not really a joke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

From the responded-to post, Sony will sell all but the Sony Bank.  Sadly, not really a joke.

Other than cameras, everything else looks pretty good besides the bank. I did gloss over the point that image sensors could still be made and sold to other manufacturers like Nikon... Maybe even Canon... Apple? I think it would be the better choice.
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post #64 of 68
Sony already sell image sensors to Apple for iPhone. From what I read, Sony are killing the competition, they're well in the lead in terms of bringing high performance sensors to small form factors.

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post #65 of 68

News flash: Sony is selling off their Vaio line of products

 

So much for that

post #66 of 68
Pity. Sony makes good hardware and services well many niches Apple doesn't want to bother with.
I'd much rather see eventually a Sony camera with iOS than with winRT or 'droid.
Sony also doesn't believe in low-price crap, so friendly competition between Sony and Apple on the hardware front would have been beneficial to all without being ruinous to either company.
post #67 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by marubeni View Post

From the responded-to post, Sony will sell all but the Sony Bank.  Sadly, not really a joke.

It's hard to believe Sony's professional video camera division could be in jeopardy. IMHO they make the best pro and prosumer video equipment. I love Canon for DSLRs and lenses but prefer my Sony Pro video gear above all else.
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post #68 of 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

It's hard to believe Sony's professional video camera division could be in jeopardy. IMHO they make the best pro and prosumer video equipment. I love Canon for DSLRs and lenses but prefer my Sony Pro video gear above all else.

I do as well. Thats why I would be so tickled to have the Sony 36mp full-size sensor in the Canon EOS full-frames.

I read a review this morning where the photographer tries to get the best of both worlds by pairing pro Canon L glass with the new A7R from Sony.... something that had also crossed my mind and was considering. Thing is, it's the sensor that's great on the A7R... the camera itself? Loud, slow, bad UI... just about everything other than it's mirrorless and small/lightweight.

It would be amazing... "phenominal"... if Apple and Sony would ever team up with the video and camera line. Jone Ive design with Apple UI and Sony tech... and a good deal on Zeiss optics... think what that would be like?!?! 1tongue.gif

Review here if interested:

Sony A7R teams up with Canon glass By Fred Miranda
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