or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Hit with another $2B damage claim, Apple joins Google in pressing Supreme Court to curb patent abuse
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Hit with another $2B damage claim, Apple joins Google in pressing Supreme Court to curb patent abuse

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
As Apple prepares to defend itself against a multi-billion dollar patent infringement claim in Europe, the company has aligned with rival Google in asking the U.S. Supreme Court to allow stiffer penalties for patent trolls who bring frivolous lawsuits.

Supreme Court


Apple will square off next week against German patent monetization firm IPCom in a $2 billion battle over a standards-essential wireless patent, according to FOSS Patents, the latest in a long line of patent-related legal skirmishes fought by the iPhone maker over the last three years. Cupertino, Calif.-based Apple has faced 92 patent suits in the U.S. alone during that time, with nearly half of those still unresolved.

The IPCom case will be litigated in Germany's Mannheim Regional Court, but the iPhone maker is hopeful that future legal actions in its home country will come with costs that may make firms like IPCom think twice before filing.

"Apple has rarely lost on the merits," the company said in a brief filed with the Supreme Court and obtained by Bloomberg. "But victory figures as small consolation because in every one of these cases, Apple has been forced to bear its legal fees."

Apple, along with Silicon Valley titans Google, Yahoo, Intel, Cisco, and Facebook, want the court to make it easier for companies that successfully defend themselves against fatuous patent claims to collect legal fees from the aggressors. Companies can incur litigation costs running into the millions of dollars for intellectual property actions.

The Court will weigh that issue in two cases it is set to hear in the coming weeks.

Currently, federal courts allow an award of fees if the suit is found to be "objectively baseless" and filed in bad faith. The case Apple has joined with its "friend of the court" brief is seeking to have that altered, allowing awards when a company "unreasonably pursues a case having an objectively low likelihood of success."

In addition to the intellectual property claims that have entered litigation, Apple says it has a backlog of over 200 more that are still pending. The company has two attorneys on staff whose sole responsibility is responding to royalty claims, it said.
post #2 of 25
German law is different from US law. Mixing all IP infringement lawsuits together does nothing for the clarity of this story.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #3 of 25
Hmmm. . .

Another talking point bites the dust then. Neither Google nor Apple think IP is being fairly asserted in some cases.

FWIW in this particular case it wouldn't matter if the US modifies patent law to deal with so-called "trolls". The IPCom lawsuit was filed in the EU.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #4 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Hmmm. . .

Another talking point bites the dust then. Neither Google nor Apple think IP is being fairly asserted in some cases.

FWIW in this particular case it wouldn't matter if the US modifies patent law to deal with so-called "trolls". The IPCom lawsuit was filed in the EU.

This makes the whole different. Google is the one that is going rogue, offering billions for patents against consortiums, buying companies just for patents, trading patents with OEMs, etc.

 

Apple only wants worthy opponents and respect. No copying, no willful infringement.

post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

Apple only wants worthy opponents and respect. No copying, no willful infringement.

Actually Apple is the major player behind Rockstar NPE.
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradipao View Post
.

Actually Apple is the major player behind Rockstar NPE.

That exists for obvious reasons, Google was going rogue to have those patents, remember? They were willing to pay more than everybody else COMBINED. So those companies formed a consortium, just like in WW2.

 

Now they are eager to know why google was willing to pay so much for them. ahahah

post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post
 

That exists for obvious reasons, Google was going rogue to have those patents, remember? They were willing to pay more than everybody else COMBINED. So those companies formed a consortium, just like in WW2.

 

Now they are eager to know why google was willing to pay so much for them. ahahah

 

All of the companies -- Apple and Google alike -- are engaging in defensive patent acquisitions to set themselves up for more favorable cross-licensing deals. So long as the patent system remains so broken, this behavior will continue.
post #8 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

German law is different from US law. Mixing all IP infringement lawsuits together does nothing for the clarity of this story.

 

I was going to make this post if nobody else did. The article's a mess. Nothing the Supreme Court does will have the slightest effect upon Apple's fate in the European suits.

post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Hmmm. . .

Another talking point bites the dust then. Neither Google nor Apple think IP is being fairly asserted in some cases.

FWIW in this particular case it wouldn't matter if the US modifies patent law to deal with so-called "trolls". The IPCom lawsuit was filed in the EU.

Chumming the water for a bite I see. 1wink.gif
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

That exists for obvious reasons, Google was going rogue to have those patents, remember? They were willing to pay more than everybody else COMBINED. So those companies formed a consortium, just like in WW2.

Now they are eager to know why google was willing to pay so much for them. ahahah

Perhaps to keep them from being broken up and distributed among a half dozen different trolls NPE's for privateering, just what's happening with Rockstar. That includes even standard-essential IP according to legal claims.

There's not a chance in Hades that Google would have fractured the portfolio between various trolls Patent Assertion Entities for patent infringement lawsuits. IMO it's unfortunate the way the Nortel auction has turned out. I think the word used by some frequent posters was "disingenuous" when Google began pressing for patent reforms. Apple has finally seen it's the wise move too, so they're joining up with Google in efforts to change the laws. Smart.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #11 of 25

Germany is a strange forum for a trial about standards-essential patents:

  • You do get an injunction and cease-and-desist pretty quickly in Germany based on preliminary proceedings, but that's apparently not the goal as this is about standards-essential patents for which can't get such a verdict at all.
  • If IPCom loses, they have to bear Apple's legal fees (not the actual ones, but the ones calculated by law on the basis of the amount at stake, which I just realize would be capped at less than USD 400k) plus court fees (agan a faily moderate USD 450k)
  • Unless that patent was granted here based on international cross-recognition, patents are a lot easier to be invalidated due to lack of invention (and they should not be granted in the first place).

We'll see how this turns out.

post #12 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post


The patent system works fine. It's the courts that are a mess. A "patent disputes Supreme Court" might be something worth looking into. In other words, a court of full-time experts who are well-versed in the minutia of patent law taking up these cases, as it seems juries staffed with average people are unsuited to the technical expertise needed to make sound judgments.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #13 of 25

How about courts only deal with patent holders if they can prove that the patent in question is being used in a product that they manufacture and because of that they are being infringed on.

Then these greedy none innovative trolls with be left with worthless paper. 

No one objects to a manufacture be it Apple/HP or Google defending its products.

Yes I can here the cry "its much more complex than that" all I say is "is it?"

If I spent years developing a unique device and sell it I will be pi""ed off if some company that just collected patents found in their collection a patent that with a legal twist of words looks similar to my product and sues in the hopes of a quick buck (or pound in my case).

If the patent in question was that good then why did the patent holder themselves innovate and make money the honest way.

This patent trolling could hold innovation back.

post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Chumming the water for a bite I see. 1wink.gif


post #15 of 25

The vast majority, although not all, of these cases could be solved and done away with if the US, and world, would get back to the heart of patents. The simple fact is that software never should have been allowed to be patented, and now the system is breaking under the stupidity of allowing the patenting of what is at its basic core algorithms and language, neither of which are patentable in any form other than software.

post #16 of 25
What about curbing grants of frivolous patents??????
post #17 of 25
Originally Posted by dysamoria View Post
What about curbing grants of frivolous patents??????


Who determines what is and is not frivolous?

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
Reply

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
Reply
post #18 of 25
Quote:
... to allow stiffer penalties for patent trolls who bring frivolous lawsuits.

More trouble for Gates

bb
Reply
bb
Reply
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by RhymeBoy View Post
 

EDITED: Nevermind. User is gone.


Edited by TeaEarleGreyHot - 2/5/14 at 11:41am
post #20 of 25

Troll detected and reported. Please, don't feed it.

post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Look, look, a Google in the water!
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Who determines what is and is not frivolous?

It's supposed to be the USPTO. In the late 2012 Executive Order modifying patenting rules Obama mandated actions to be put in place immediately:
(1) initiating a PTO rulemaking process to promulgate rules requiring patent applicants and owners to regularly update ownership information
(2) training patent examiners to more closely scrutinize non-structural functional claims and demand claim drafting with more clarity
(3) having the PTO publish new educational materials to educate parties targeted by NPEs about patent law
(4) expanding White House outreach efforts “to develop new ideas and consensus around updates to patent policies and laws”; and
(5) having the U.S. Intellectual Property Enforcement Coordinator review existing Customs and Border Protection and ITC procedures to ensure more transparent, effective, and efficient enforcement of exclusion orders.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

I was going to make this post if nobody else did. The article's a mess. Nothing the Supreme Court does will have the slightest effect upon Apple's fate in the European suits.

It does not claim to. It says that in the future, suits in its own country may be affected by the supreme Courts potential decision. It does not try and claim that the German suit would have been affected
post #24 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

...
FWIW in this particular case it wouldn't matter if the US modifies patent law to deal with so-called "trolls". The IPCom lawsuit was filed in the EU.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...
The IPCom case will be litigated in Germany's Mannheim Regional Court, but the iPhone maker is hopeful that future legal actions in its home country will come with costs that may make firms like IPCom think twice before filing.
...

 

That is what was stated in the article...

post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by icoco3 View Post
 

 

 

That is what was stated in the article...

Exactly.  That companies, like IPCom who sue for SEP, will think twice in "future legal actions in its home country."

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Hit with another $2B damage claim, Apple joins Google in pressing Supreme Court to curb patent abuse