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Apple stock jumps after buyback announcement, Icahn says "Keep buying, Tim!"

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 
Apple shares are trading up nearly $10 after CEO Tim Cook revealed the company's recent $14 billion buyback and hinted at an entry into new markets, though Wall Street's reaction was not good enough for activist investor Carl Icahn.

Tim Cook
Apple CEO Tim Cook during an interview at the D11 conference.


Icahn took to Twitter on Friday to chide his Wall Street neighbors, saying that Apple's current share price was "ridiculous" when compared with that of fellow Silicon Valley titan Google. Google is trading at roughly 19 times its estimated operating profit in 2014 --?a similar multiple for Apple would price its shares well over $1,200.

The billionaire added that Wall Street is "apparently still not listening" to Apple chief Tim Cook's repeated pronouncements that the company is on the verge of taking on new markets, such as wearables with the widely-rumored "iWatch." Some analysts believe a product like the iWatch could add as much as $17 billion per year to Apple's coffers.

February 7, 2014


Icahn's missives come less than one day after Cook gave a wide-ranging interview to the Wall Street Journal in which he said Apple had made an "aggressive" and "opportunistic" move to repurchase $14 billion worth of its shares after its stock falterd following weaker-than-expected, but still record-breaking, earnings in the holiday quarter.

"It means that we are betting on Apple. It means that we are really confident on what we are doing and what we plan to do," Cook said in the interview. "We're not just saying that. We're showing that with our actions."

Cook also intimated that Apple would soon make good on promises of product line expansion. "There will be new categories," he said. "We're not ready to talk about it, but we're working on some really great stuff."

February 7, 2014


AAPL shares were up $8.17, or 1.59%, to $520.68 as of 3:00 pm Friday.
post #2 of 48

I'm really getting sick of this Icahn media-whore/market-manipulator/hudge-fund-charlatan. I think there needs to be some kind of law preventing people like himself who own billions in stocks from talking about stocks he owns on a public forum like Twitter/Facebook/radio/TV. It's the only hope we have for reining in these Wall St. crooks.


Edited by Ireland - 2/7/14 at 12:46pm
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #3 of 48
iCon needs to go away. For Apple.
post #4 of 48
I would like to think that since he already has so much money (to the point that it doesn't matter how much) icahn really believes in Apple and isn't interested in making more billions no matter what.

But that would be me being stupid. He only wants money to make more money, even if the world burns. I would understand it if he needed it to put food on the table, but guys like these? Trash.
post #5 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

I would like to think that since he already has so much money (to the point that it doesn't matter how much) icahn really believes in Apple and isn't interested in making more billions no matter what.

 

   Naive much?

 

Quote:
But that would be me being stupid. He only wants money to make more money, even if the world burns. I would understand it if he needed it to put food on the table, but guys like these? Trash.
 
Indeed.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #6 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post
 

I'm really getting sick of this Icahn media-whore/market-manipulator/hudge-fund-charlatan. I think there needs to be some kind of law preventing people like himself from talking about stocks he owns on a public forum like Twitter/Facebook/radio/TV. It's the only hope we have for reining in these Wall St. crooks.

The fact that he has money and is not the nicest person in the world does not mean he can't express his opinion?! Perhaps you're more scared (or jealous) of the fact that people might actually be persuaded by him?

 

It's Cook's job as a CEO to articulate a counter-argument.

 

(For the  record I remain suspicious of his motives, and I don't think that a debt-laden repurchase of the size he's recommending at this price -- or above -- makes much economic sense for Apple.)

post #7 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

The fact that he has money and is not the nicest person in the world does not mean he can't express his opinion?

 

I'd be nice if it were that simple.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #8 of 48
Hey AI, why not forget icahn and the stock BS and focus on the interesting things that Tim said? Apple doesn't need the stock.

Tim said some great things about the Mac.
post #9 of 48
I wish Apple would just buy Crazy Carl's stock.
post #10 of 48
The market was up overall today. So if Apple was up because of the buybacks that means it would have been flat or down today, even though the rest of the market was up.
post #11 of 48
Carl will never be happy

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #12 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

The market was up overall today. So if Apple was up because of the buybacks that means it would have been flat or down today, even though the rest of the market was up.

So what?
post #13 of 48
Money markets in general need to go. We do not need non-producing entities swallowing up the world's wealth without giving a damn thing of any use to real people back.
post #14 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by pedromartins View Post

I would like to think that since he already has so much money (to the point that it doesn't matter how much) icahn really believes in Apple and isn't interested in making more billions no matter what.

But that would be me being stupid. He only wants money to make more money, even if the world burns. I would understand it if he needed it to put food on the table, but guys like these? Trash.

Rich people have a disease that causes them to think that enough is never enough. I have seen way too people with way too much money complain about spending any of it even when they need medical assistance. They just can't part with anything. They even have problems buying good food, only wanting to spend the least amount possible and complaining when their "hard earned money" is used to help the less fortunate among us. 

 

Icahn fits this bill perfectly. He will never have enough and will never quit boasting about the money he has. 

post #15 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

Rich people have a disease that causes them to think that enough is never enough. I have seen way too people with way too much money complain about spending any of it even when they need medical assistance. They just can't part with anything. They even have problems buying good food, only wanting to spend the least amount possible and complaining when their "hard earned money" is used to help the less fortunate among us. 

 

Icahn fits this bill perfectly. He will never have enough and will never quit boasting about the money he has. 

Largely will go to charities he selects at the end - don't be so envious, it stinks 

 

Thanks Carl - Tim is outstanding CEO - his only weakness is not paying attention to the capital/stock price - which could destroy a company dependent on new talent (engineers) and public perception.

 

Apple is now more of a "winner" after he has taken stock from 300s to 500s - will be even better at the 700 number again in several months

post #16 of 48

I've seen financial websites ask if Apple bought back their stock to appease Icahn. The answer is a big fat NO! Apple does what they want to do, when they want to do it, and simply saw the big dip as a buying opportunity to satisfy the amount they already said they were going to buy back. Apple doesn't have enough money to go private or I bet they would. All the stock owned by Apple employees could easily be converted to something else but I'm sure Apple employees like the amount of growth their stock has had and really wish it would keep growing the way it should instead of being manipulated by a bunch of worthless analysts.

post #17 of 48

Why all this Icahn hate?

 

Why does everyone think he's an evil short-term investor?

 

He buys low and sells high.  Do you just buy a stock because you love it then hold on to it forever no matter what because you love it?  Get a wife or something.  Get a dog.

 

Name one company he's hurt.  Don't say TWA because all air lines, especially in the 80's were crap.  United, Delta, America, they all went bankrupt at one time or another.  TWA was crashing with or without Icahn.

post #18 of 48
The only logical reason for Icahn to speak up about boosting the share price is to exit and profit, proving he is a short term investor with no long term interest in the company.
post #19 of 48

So we are supposed to assume that Apple stock went down based on sound insight into their future, and that future suddenly got better because they are spending money on stock holders, rather than on technology or production facilities?

 

The most productive company with the best brand has to do stock buybacks to warrant a bump in their stock?

 

Sure, a buyback will promote stock -- but they big players gaming this stock racket were going to boost the stock anyway. It's almost like the weather man is claiming the latest storm was due to the last parade in that city. Or the price of oil went up based on "threats" in some Middle East country -- as if there weren't threats last week, or the week before.

 

Stocks swing up and down because someone sees an opportunity to get some blood out of the suckers holding stock, and the price of oil goes up because futures contracts can make them go up. Market timing also makes profits for the big players who manipulate this stuff.

 

And to be a "stock expert" on TV -- you have to either ignore this detail or be too stupid to notice this detail and just keep people buying and selling.

 

Sheesh, I sound cynical to myself, if I weren't so damn right.

post #20 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2an View Post

The only logical reason for Icahn to speak up about boosting the share price is to exit and profit, proving he is a short term investor with no long term interest in the company.

 

Oh how dare you disparage the sage stock advise of Carl Icahn. Oh wait; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Icahn -- yeah, no, never mind. All his office needs is a Stripper Pole to offset this vaunted ethics and accountability with his sage wisdom. Oh and a mirror ball, and some black lights. A fog machine, maybe Donald Trump lounging naked on a black velvet painting. The last scene of "Fight Club" where the city blows up is done in a tasteful ceramic intaglio.

 

Carl Icahn has a bloody Elvis under his foot and he holds a sword that sprays marshmallow flavored Vodka into his fountain. It's inscribed below with; "Yes, I can take it with me Momma!"

 

Sorry, yes, I think we were talking about stock appreciation or something, but I'm just dazzled right now by the 3D projection on his Swan statuettes -- it makes it look as if the little Putti in his living room are flying about...

post #21 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by christoble View Post
 

Why all this Icahn hate?

 

Why does everyone think he's an evil short-term investor?

 

He buys low and sells high.  Do you just buy a stock because you love it then hold on to it forever no matter what because you love it?  Get a wife or something.  Get a dog.

 

Name one company he's hurt.  Don't say TWA because all air lines, especially in the 80's were crap.  United, Delta, America, they all went bankrupt at one time or another.  TWA was crashing with or without Icahn.

 

What the world needs now is a few million more people like Carl Icahn to trade around bits of paper. So many in fact, that it will make the value of leaf blowing day laborers go up. You know; supply and demand and all that.

 

It's so refreshing to find people who are still fans of "I did nothing bad but I got rich making nothing at all" -- like history will view selling gold plated leaf blowers with 8 cam engines just before the last ice cap melted.

 

It's so damn patriotic. Where's my flag pin, I'm gonna get misty.

post #22 of 48

1.5% increase is not a jump

post #23 of 48
Originally Posted by -mr-mustard- View Post
1.5% increase is not a jump

 

When Icahn says jump, Apple says they couldn’t care less.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #24 of 48
What a goddamn Ponzi scheme . And what sickens me is that it's so out in the open.
post #25 of 48
Icahn is 100 percent right here and I am glad Cook is listening. And for those of you too stupid to notice, there are only three types of people against the buy back 1. The shorts 2. The usual apple bashing media types are all in unison hating the buy back. 3. Those too stupid to understand capital markets and exactly what Icahn is saying.

Now if shorts and Apple badgers hate the buy back, should that not give you a clue if u are a long time investor?
post #26 of 48

If Cook was surprised by the drop in the share price after he announced flat net revenue year over year for the quarter, and no gross revenue growth for the following quarter even after the China Mobile deal maybe he is a moron.  They really should stop supporting the share price when the price is falling and let it bottom out so they can be more efficient with the buybacks.  

 

Comparing Apple to Google right now is pretty ridiculous.   Google's net and gross revenue are continuing to increase substantially and investors will pay a premium for that.

post #27 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkell31 View Post

If Cook was surprised by the drop in the share price after he announced flat net revenue year over year for the quarter, and no gross revenue growth for the following quarter even after the China Mobile deal maybe he is a moron.  They really should stop supporting the share price when the price is falling and let it bottom out so they can be more efficient with the buybacks.  

Comparing Apple to Google right now is pretty ridiculous.   Google's net and gross revenue are continuing to increase substantially and investors will pay a premium for that.

Wall streets estimated EPS was $14.10. Apple reported $14.50.

It dropped because of guidance
post #28 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post


Wall streets estimated EPS was $14.10. Apple reported $14.50.

It dropped because of guidance

 

Guidance certainly was the main issue, but no net revenue growth didn't help.  EPS isn't that important if it's only from share buybacks.

post #29 of 48
All of you are just upset that you did not buy Google stock sooner.
post #30 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by christoble View Post

Why all this Icahn hate?

Why does everyone think he's an evil short-term investor?

He buys low and sells high.  Do you just buy a stock because you love it then hold on to it forever no matter what because you love it?  Get a wife or something.  Get a dog.

Name one company he's hurt.  Don't say TWA because all air lines, especially in the 80's were crap.  United, Delta, America, they all went bankrupt at one time or another. TWA was crashing with or without Icahn.

People generally have an idea of reasonable ratios for contribution vs reward. There are a lot of employees at Apple and they put in a lot of hard work, very long hours. Apple has a lot of customers and often buying an Apple product is a big sacrifice for a customer and comes out of money many have similarly had to work hard for.

Then you get people like Carl who have never done anything to help the company or get it to where it is and have a lot of money already. They see cash reserves they can loot so they buy up shares. Then they try to control the movement of funds by communicating with the CEO, they often make moves to replace board members for more control.

Carl contributes nothing to the company's success and yet if Apple's stock price goes up 10%, Carl stands to gain more than $200m.

Apple has about 415 stores, they can have as many as 100 staff each according to Apple. If an employee makes $30k per year, that works out at $1.2 billion per year. So the amount that Carl gets clicking his mouse and placing a bet on Apple gives him a return equivalent to over 7,000 full time retail staff working for an entire year.

Is that a fair system? That one person can buy second hand shares in a company after it's already successful with zero effort and make as much of a return as 7,000 people working for a entire year? You've probably heard the recent stat that the top 85 wealthiest people in the world have as much wealth as the bottom 3.5 billion people:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/jan/20/oxfam-85-richest-people-half-of-the-world

Most of the 3.5 billion will be countries in dire poverty so the ratio isolated to Western countries should be improved but as per the above example, this is how it happens. The staff work to pay their mortgages and loans at interest and buy products and the profits are going to increase the share prices of corporations, which lines the pockets of the wealthiest shareholders.

It doesn't matter if Carl is damaging to the company or not, he's trying to manipulate Apple's management of their assets for his own gain. Everybody invests money for gain but it's distasteful when people like Carl make a nuisance of themselves, contribute nothing and then take a reward far higher than the people who are contributing to the company's gain in value. Sure it's the nature of the game and he's just another player in it but it's wrong and since the game can't really change, hate for the nuisance players is all there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore 
Icahn is 100 percent right here and I am glad Cook is listening.

Tim is right to buy the stock when it's as low as possible but the comments of extra commitment like the glib $145b remark shows Icahn's intent. He wants the cash drained and that's not the right thing for Apple to do. Tim said they had no plans for big company acquisitions so returning more to the shareholders is ok but buybacks can be wiped out by traders pushing the price down. They can just increase the dividend so that people who are in it long-term get the benefit.
post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

Rich people have a disease that causes them to think that enough is never enough. I have seen way too people with way too much money complain about spending any of it even when they need medical assistance. They just can't part with anything. They even have problems buying good food, only wanting to spend the least amount possible and complaining when their "hard earned money" is used to help the less fortunate among us. 

Icahn fits this bill perfectly. He will never have enough and will never quit boasting about the money he has. 


Correct, it's called "wealth addiction" and is well documented. Here is an excellent NYT article by Sam Polk, former Wall Street hedge-fund trader and author of "For the Love of Money":

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/opinion/sunday/for-the-love-of-money.html?_r=0
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Arguing with a troll is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board, and then strut around acting like he won.
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post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyuestateplanninglawyer View Post

Largely will go to charities he selects at the end - don't be so envious, it stinks 

Thanks Carl - Tim is outstanding CEO - his only weakness is not paying attention to the capital/stock price - which could destroy a company dependent on new talent (engineers) and public perception.

Apple is now more of a "winner" after he has taken stock from 300s to 500s - will be even better at the 700 number again in several months

Carl did not take Apple from the 300s. Get your lips off...
post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by christoble View Post

Why all this Icahn hate?

Why does everyone think he's an evil short-term investor?

He buys low and sells high.  Do you just buy a stock because you love it then hold on to it forever no matter what because you love it?  Get a wife or something.  Get a dog.

Name one company he's hurt.  Don't say TWA because all air lines, especially in the 80's were crap.  United, Delta, America, they all went bankrupt at one time or another.  TWA was crashing with or without Icahn.

Because Crazy Carl interferes with the companies he invests in for the benefit of himself.
post #34 of 48
Carl, please find another company to tinker with and devalue!! I'm perfectly happy with what Apple is doing and though I own less shares than you I've owned mine since they were worth $11.00 a share. I love Apple, I just voted against your initiatives via proxyvote and hope everyone else will as well. We don't want you corporate pariahs sniffing around Apple, you ruin everything you touch while just seeking stock appreciation. I am not as interested in stock appreciation as I am in innovation and owning part of a company that excels in excellence of execution.

So please, feel free to sell all your shares again, you'll lose some money I'm sure and depress the value of my shares, but I can live with that temporary loss as a long term holder of Apple, if it means getting rid of your kind of corporate "activism".

Thanks in advance!
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore View Post

Icahn is 100 percent right here and I am glad Cook is listening. And for those of you too stupid to notice, there are only three types of people against the buy back 1. The shorts 2. The usual apple bashing media types are all in unison hating the buy back. 3. Those too stupid to understand capital markets and exactly what Icahn is saying.

Um, as an Icahn acolyte that swallows his lack of analysis wholesale, all I can say is that he gets rich off people like you!

And I say, as long as there are sheep waiting to get fleeced, why not. ;-)
Edited by anantksundaram - 2/7/14 at 6:48pm
post #36 of 48
Tim Cook again confirms $AAPL will launch new products in new categories (plural) this year. Wall Street apparently still not listening.
— Carl Icahn (@Carl_C_Icahn)

Did Cook say multiple new categories 'this year', or is Icahn manipulating the stocks again?
post #37 of 48

Carl's only source of pleasure is screwing with the markets. All's fair in Carl and Carl.

post #38 of 48
not cause and effect. f.u.icon.
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post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by castcore View Post

Icahn is 100 percent right here and I am glad Cook is listening. And for those of you too stupid to notice, there are only three types of people against the buy back 1. The shorts 2. The usual apple bashing media types are all in unison hating the buy back. 3. Those too stupid to understand capital markets and exactly what Icahn is saying.

Um, as an Icahn acolyte that swallows his lack of analysis wholesale, all I can say is that he gets rich off off people like you!

And I say, as long as there are sheep waiting to get fleeced, why not.
post #40 of 48
I think Cook's biggest mistake was caving in to Wall Street's demand for a dividend. He's been trapped on the manipulation merrygoround ever since.
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