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Blockchain CEO calls Apple 'gatekeeper to innovation,' says Bitcoin app removal signals payments... - Page 4

post #121 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

What risks? Seriously - It's. not. illegal. How many other ways can I say it?

Explain to me how apple benefits from having personal banking apps.
The risks for fiat currency are as plain as day.

You are still avoiding the question. What benefit does apple get with bit coin. There are only 200k bitcoin users. There are hundreds of millions of people who do online banking with REAL currency.

If you don't recognize the risks of bit coin you are clueless



http://thenextweb.com/asia/2014/02/06/bank-indonesia-says-bitcoin-isnt-a-legal-currency-but-people-are-free-to-trade-at-their-own-risk/#!uZ0on
It appears that Indonesia is now allowing Bitcoin to continue existing in the country among its online population and simply warning of the risks — though the lack of regulation means that if you come upon issues such as fraud, you won’t be able to receive any legal backing.

Here are more bit coin risks
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/24/bitcoin-is-not-yet-ready-for-the-real-world/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

Bit coin may become legit and grow its users to the millions. But now someone can steal your bitcoins and you can't do anything about it because it is not legal currency. Legally it is worth as much as Monopoly money.
Edited by sog35 - 2/9/14 at 11:53am
post #122 of 204
No risk. Lol

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/01/24/bitcoin-is-not-yet-ready-for-the-real-world/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

There are a growing number of nations that have begun to debunk the idea it could serve as a real currency. China, the second-largest economy in the world, announced in December that it would not accept Bitcoin, and within 48 hours the price dropped as much as 50 percent. Other influential nations and authorities have also spoken out against Bitcoin, including Denmark, Finland, France, India, Norway, Sweden, Thailand and the European Banking Authority.

Next week, the New York State Department of Financial Services will hold an important hearing to further help clarify the role that Bitcoin should or should not play as it relates to our financial sector. Under this growing regulatory climate and concerns about not being able to prevent money laundering, American commercial banks are hesitant to open accounts with Bitcoin-related start-ups.
post #123 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I’ll just wait until you read the post again.
Read it. Same result. Apple have removed all BitCoin apps from their App Store, blocking users from using BitCoin in a native app on their platform. The web isn't Apples platform, so web apps don't count. Apple have placed roadblocks in the way of users using BitCoin.

Now respond properly, not like a surly teenager.

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post #124 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

 

Can you interview the inventor of banks or credit cards, [other meh]?

 

I suspect that John C. Biggins, of Flatbush National Bank, is already dead (http://bit.ly/1o7ECov). But I'm sure he wouldn't have mind to give an interview to you around 1947. Sheesh...

post #125 of 204

So far, most of the ignorant comments here seem to be from the bitcoiners. You guys seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the role of money in a macro-economy. (Hint: Legitimate 'money' is both a medium of exchange and a store of value -- all your pro-bitcoin arguments are solely focused on the former).

 

If you’d like to learn a bit more about why it’s not ready for prime-yet – it may get there at some point in the future, but many questions need to be answered – I’d highly recommend your reading this short and substantive piece and the links in there (trust me, it’s not political in the least): http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/28/bitcoin-is-evil/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0


Edited by anantksundaram - 2/9/14 at 1:03pm
post #126 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post
 

Ah, illegal in Russia, but so are a lot of things (homosexuality, for example ....

Don't spread FUD. Homosexuality was decriminalized in Russia in 1993.

post #127 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by basjhj View Post
 

 

I suspect that John C. Biggins, of Flatbush National Bank, is already dead (http://bit.ly/1o7ECov). But I'm sure he wouldn't have mind to give an interview to you around 1947. Sheesh...

 

So what did he say in an interview that would drastically change our view of credit cards today? Nothing.
 
What could Satoshi Nakamoto say in an interview that would drastically change our view of bitcoin today? Nothing.
 
And as for Sog35:
What possible economic reason does Apple have for allowing fart apps, zit popping apps, poo tracking apps, lightsaber apps? Hint: there doesn't need to be one.
 
As for risks associated with bitcoin - what's the one you're actually concerned about?
 
Pyramid/Ponzi scheme - false by design, or you just don't understand what a Ponzi or pyramid scheme actually entails
Illegality - Only illegal in Russia. Iceland has capital export laws meaning you can't buy bitcoins from overseas, but their use within Iceland is legal. So just block from the Russian app store like they do with other regional apps.

  Volatility - why is this Apple's concern?

  No backing if someone steals your coins - what do you do if someone steals your wallet? Run to the bank and try to get your $100 bills back?

  What if someone raids your account - this is one area that you may have some point, but why is this any of Apple's concern? Apple doesn't compensate you if your Lloyds bank account gets hacked. Lloyds does.

 

Go on - what actual risk is there to Apple of accepting bitcoin wallets? It's trivial to demonstrate that an app doesn't need a positive economic case before being accepted, so why be hypocritical and require bitcoin to have one?

post #128 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


You do realize Windows had 90% of the market. iOS doesn't have even half of that (or so the media says)

They do on iPad, once you count the fact that the "white box" tablets are probably just an IDC marketing ploy.  iPads are replacing the entire PC market, really I see Apple as being in a stronger position than Microsoft was back when.

Microsoft is in a terrible spot since the PC market is dying.   Google is in a terrible spot since the PC market is dying, and Samsung and Apple have the opportunity to grab all of the mobile advertising revenue and cut Google off at the knees.   Apple and Amazon are going to kill all their competition, I just don't see how they can fail to dominate.

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post #129 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Don't spread FUD. Homosexuality was decriminalized in Russia in 1993.


Then Apple blocked Grindr in Russia because they hate gays personally?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/05/gay_hook_up_app_russia_block/

Being gay itself may not be illegal in Russia, but a search for "Russian anti-gay laws" returns a lot of results.

http://www.thewrap.com/stephen-colbert-russia-anti-gay-laws-youd-expect-putin-cover-manholes-video/
 

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post #130 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post
 

Then Apple blocked Grindr in Russia because they hate gays personally?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/02/05/gay_hook_up_app_russia_block/

Being gay itself may not be illegal in Russia, but a search for "Russian anti-gay laws" returns a lot of results.

http://www.thewrap.com/stephen-colbert-russia-anti-gay-laws-youd-expect-putin-cover-manholes-video/
 

Just pointing out factually that you stated a falsehood -- or made an ignorant statement -- earlier, that's all. You post (quoted above) is just irrelevant CYA.

 

So why should we assume anything better when it comes to bitcoins, from you?

post #131 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

They do on iPad, once you count the fact that the "white box" tablets are probably just an IDC marketing ploy.  iPads are replacing the entire PC market, really I see Apple as being in a stronger position than Microsoft was back when.


Microsoft is in a terrible spot since the PC market is dying.   Google is in a terrible spot since the PC market is dying, and Samsung and Apple have the opportunity to grab all of the mobile advertising revenue and cut Google off at the knees.   Apple and Amazon are going to kill all their competition, I just don't see how they can fail to dominate.

And if you remove all non- iOS devices, Apple has 100% market share. That's what the basis of your argument is: Changing the market to suit your statistics. You wanna use bit coin on mobile devices, get an Android. "Problem" solved.
post #132 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

  Volatility - why is this Apple's concern?
  No backing if someone steals your coins - what do you do if someone steals your wallet? Run to the bank and try to get your $100 bills back?
  What if someone raids your account - this is one area that you may have some point, but why is this any of Apple's concern? Apple doesn't compensate you if your Lloyds bank account gets hacked. Lloyds does.

Go on - what actual risk is there to Apple of accepting bitcoin wallets? It's trivial to demonstrate that an app doesn't need a positive economic case before being accepted, so why be hypocritical and require bitcoin to have one?

If there was no risk apple would not block bit coin apps.
They have there reasons and bit coin needs to work hard with apple to fix it.

Bottom line is the risk outweigh the benefit from apples point of view and there is nothing any of us can do about it.
Apple allows square and paypal to have apps so this is nothing to do with apple trying to get a payments monopoly.
Edited by sog35 - 2/9/14 at 5:01pm
post #133 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post
 

 

Wow.   I mean, I like my Apple stuff but they don't have nearly enough control over my life that I have ceded it to them by a long shot.  Who would rely on living via Apple so completely that every time Apple makes a left turn they feel like they've been left out in the desert?   If you've been ordering cat food via some company's IOS app and they don't continue updating it through the next OS are you going to jump off a bridge because instead of going dit dit dit on your iPhone you'll have to call in the order?

 

It's a big world out there.  Go for a walk.  Talk to some friends.  Take a drive.  Leave your iPad home.  That might be all the exercising of control you need.

 

Apple sucks balls. Okay?

 

I've been following Apple and using their products since 1979.

 

I have major problems with one MacBook working with AppleTV and the other. Also, have problems playing DVDs though AppleTV. And AppleTV being slow with Youtube.

 

I could go on.

 

Tim, wake the F up and get your software division waked the F' up.

 

Also, I OS 7 looks like crap.

 

Owner of Apple TV, 3 MacBooks, 5 iPhones, and an Apple Ipad Mini.

post #134 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

Apple sucks balls. Okay?

I've been following Apple and using their products since 1979.

I have major problems with one MacBook working with AppleTV and the other. Also, have problems playing DVDs though AppleTV. And AppleTV being slow with Youtube.

I could go on.

Tim, wake the F up and get your software division waked the F' up.

Also, I OS 7 looks like crap.

Owner of Apple TV, 3 MacBooks, 5 iPhones, and an Apple Ipad Mini.

You should switch to Nexus18 and report your findings
post #135 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

Also, have problems playing DVDs though AppleTV. And AppleTV being slow with Youtube.

Are these YouTube videos you burned to a DVD then tried to play through the AppleTV?

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #136 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


As an Englishman, I'm embarrassed by people like pete borota. The strength of anti-Apple sentiment in England is one of the worst traits of my nationality.

 

As a Britisher I am not at all embarrassed by Pete Borata's comment. Whereas I do not agree with his comment I believe he is entitled to his opinion and I resent making his comments a personal insult. By all means criticize the content of his post but please layoff the person.
BTW can't I sell a product by bypassing the apple app store? Don't profess to be an Apple nerd just own the stock because I believe it is incredible value. Time will let if I am right. BTW I am NOT a bitcoin fan and won't even take the time to research them. When it becomes legal tender, I will be glad to look into it

post #137 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfisher View Post

Apple sucks balls. Okay?

I've been following Apple and using their products since 1979.

Which is unverifiable by others and not that important to the complaint, IMO.
Quote:
I have major problems with one MacBook working with AppleTV and the other. Also, have problems playing DVDs though AppleTV. And AppleTV being slow with Youtube.

I have to question this "playing DVDs" bit. AppleTV wasn't marketed as being able to playing DVDs at all. To complain about a product's inability to do something that's not an officially supported feature is unseemly.
Quote:
Also, I OS 7 looks like crap.

Not a big fan myself.
Quote:
Owner of Apple TV, 3 MacBooks, 5 iPhones, and an Apple Ipad Mini.

Or, could be concern troll. A difference of opinion on style is valid, and I think the YouTube complaint is possibly valid, I haven't tried that feature lately. The rest of the complaints? eh.
Edited by JeffDM - 2/10/14 at 5:53am
post #138 of 204
Rightly or wrongly, governments are banning Bitcoin and prosecuting Bitcoin exchange operators, among other things. It's more likely that Apple is trying to stay on the right side of the law(s).
post #139 of 204

Bitcoin needs to get their Sheet together.

 

Apple is the pinnacle.

Bitcoin is just beginning.

 

Instead of bashing Apple and iPhones they need to look in the mirror and GET BETTER.

Stop blaming Apple for your shortcomings and FAILURES.

 

First off you need to get more than 200,000 users.  Thats not enough.

Second Mr Satoshi needs to work hard to get it legal recognition around the globe.  Use the $1B he has from Bitcoin to make it legit.

Third help governments put an end to the black market transactions of Bitcoin.

Fourth Mr Satoshi and his generals who own 30% of all the bitcoins need to make a pledge that they will not sell their holdings for 10 years.  This will give the price stability.

Fifth Mr Satoshi needs to come out to the public.  How can people (or Apple) trust a shadowy figure that does not want his identity to be know?

 

Bottom line is Bitcoin needs to come to Apple's level.  They need to raise their game.  GET BETTER.

Apple does NOT need to stoop down to Bitcoins level. 

post #140 of 204
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Read it. Same result.

 

Obviously you didn’t.

 
Apple have removed all BitCoin apps from their App Store, blocking users from using BitCoin in a native app on their platform. Apple have placed roadblocks in the way of users using BitCoin.

 

I never said anything against any of that. But you’d know that if you read the post.

 
The web isn't Apples platform, so web apps don't count. 

 

Ladies and gentlemen, our first round draft pick for XLS.

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post #141 of 204
Ok, sure, you never said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And Apple’s blocking Bitcoin from their… Oh, wait, they’re not, are they?

I don't know what you mean by XLS, but I'll take the comment as a compliment and admittance that you wrote hastily and don't read think through your comment.

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post #142 of 204
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Ok, sure, you never said

 

That they’re blocking it from their platform. Because they’re not.

 
I don’t know what you mean by XLS…

 

You’re moving the goalposts. I’ll say again.

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post #143 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That they’re blocking it from their platform. Because they’re not.
Removing it from the App Store is basically equivalent to that.

Would you not say that Apple block pornography from their platform, or politically controversial content?

Yes, yes, you can get to it via Safari or other web-centric apps, but the web isn't Apple's platform, and using web apps offers less power, speed and integration, so it's a less convenient solution, as was the main thrust of my point.

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post #144 of 204

Bitcoin needs to raise its game. PERIOD.

 

Bitcoin does not have legal recognition in the USA.  What does that mean?  It means if someone uses fraud or a virus to steal your Bitcoins you have no recourse.  You can't sue for damages because Bitcoin is not legal tender and has no value in the eyes of the law.

post #145 of 204

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #146 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Forget Bitcoin, here's the new currency: Unlocked iPhone 5s:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-02-06/unlocked-iphones-are-hard-currency-in-brazil-italy-other-countries

Even more is a iPhone with Flappy Bird installed.

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-79243872/
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post #147 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

As an Englishman, I'm embarrassed by people like pete borota. The strength of anti-Apple sentiment in England is one of the worst traits of my nationality.

I had gotten the impression from the frequency of anti-Apple sentiments posted in these forums from people who identify themselves as from the UK as evidence that forum members in that country do not like Apple and/or are Microsoft fans. Is that what it looks like on the ground?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #148 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I had gotten the impression from the frequency of anti-Apple sentiments posted in these forums from people who identify themselves as from the UK as evidence that forum members in that country do not like Apple and/or are Microsoft fans. Is that what it looks like on the ground?

Oh, there are plenty of Apple fans here in the UK too. But historically, there has been an anti-Apple ideology for a long time. I think someone else here went into greater detail as to why. I think there are many reasons why, but overall, I feel it's a general anti-elitist sentiment. Also anti-American. We English tend to be very suspicious of successful companies. Still, the iPhone and iPad are hugely popular here; in London, they're everywhere.

I think it's very damning to Great Britain that, despite its deserved reputation as a world-leader for invention, that hasn't translated into the success it should have done. We seem to be good at small, cutting edge outfits, but not world-dominating triumphs. A combination of something in the water plus a defeatist political mentality.

If I were American, I would be hugely proud of Apple. As it is, I love Apple and enjoy the close ties forged by Sir Jonathan Ive and the late Steve Jobs between USA and UK.
post #149 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Oh, there are plenty of Apple fans here in the UK too. But historically, there has been an anti-Apple ideology for a long time. I think someone else here went into greater detail as to why. I think there are many reasons why, but overall, I feel it's a general anti-elitist sentiment. Also anti-American. We English tend to be very suspicious of successful companies.

I get the anti-elitist sentiment, there's something to that, though even just a neutral statement of "my computer doesn't have that problem" can seem elitist to someone suffering with a device that has X problem.

How do some of those sentiments work when Microsoft, Intel & AMD are companies of a very US origin? Do people just ignore that? At least the first two companies are also very successful as well.
post #150 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I get the anti-elitist sentiment, there's something to that, though even just a neutral statement of "my computer doesn't have that problem" can seem elitist to someone suffering with a device that has X problem.

How do some of those sentiments work when Microsoft, Intel & AMD are companies of a very US origin? Do people just ignore that? At least the first two companies are also very successful as well.

Well now you're getting into another level. Microsoft is the establishment as far as business goes, so it has an ingrained advantage in sentiment amongst a lot of the media. So in addition to being elitist, Apple was anti-establishment!

I guess we're in the middle of a seismic shift now, though. Although I don't see Microsoft going anywhere in the enterprise, consumer is another matter. And the establishment isn't doing so well here in just about any field.

So I think it's less important that Microsoft, Intel and AMD are successful than that they aren't elitist.
post #151 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Well now you're getting into another level. Microsoft is the establishment as far as business goes, so it has an ingrained advantage in sentiment amongst a lot of the media. So in addition to being elitist, Apple was anti-establishment!

Huh. Pro-establishment but otherwise anti-success. They weren't always the establishment, if I recall, they beat out some home-grown players in the UK market getting to that status.
post #152 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

I thought Apple was all about groundbreaking innovation.

Bitcoin is the largest innovation in personal finance since the credit card. It is NOT illegal, and therefore claims that Apple removed it because it's currently not legal are just unjustified.

As for the claims that it's only used for drugs - less than 5% of bitcoin passed through the Silk Road. Yet nearly all US$100 bills have trace amounts of cocaine on them, HSBC laundered hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars for Mexican drug cartels, and I go buy heroin in any city using untraceable cash....

My theory is Apple has no problem with Bitcoin, they have a problem with hosting apps that are insecure and may result in liabilities for Apple that they do not need.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

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post #153 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Rightly or wrongly, governments are banning Bitcoin and prosecuting Bitcoin exchange operators, among other things. It's more likely that Apple is trying to stay on the right side of the law(s).

Where have governments banned bitcoin? As for prosecuting exchange operators, this is another area where you need to do your research.

 

And which law(s) are they trying to stay on the right side of? Oh that's right - there's nothing questionable going on here. Except Apple's hypocrisy.

post #154 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Where have governments banned bitcoin? As for prosecuting exchange operators, this is another area where you need to do your research.

Huh? I didn't think it was obscure information.

Russia banned the use if bitcoin. It sounds like Germany's making steps to regulate.

There's been a few arrests for Bitcoin exchange operators, the most high profile being the operator of Silk Road.

If it's really hypocrisy, are PayPal & Square still on the App Store?
post #155 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post
 

Fourth Mr Satoshi and his generals who own 30% of all the bitcoins need to make a pledge that they will not sell their holdings for 10 years.  This will give the price stability.

Fifth Mr Satoshi needs to come out to the public.  How can people (or Apple) trust a shadowy figure that does not want his identity to be know?

 

Again, you just have no idea do you. There is no 'Mr. Satoshi' and this doesn't matter. Do you fly because you know Frank Whittle invented the jet engine? Do you drive because Mr. Daimler invented the first car? Do people buy bitcoin because Mr. Satoshi invented them?

 

Furthermore, If I held 30% of the gold in the world, I'd be sitting on a few trillion dollars - in theory. If I wanted to dump it all at once, do you think I'd get a fraction of its price? No - I'd be flooding the market and prices would collapse. I'd lose, the market would gain.

 

Same with bitcoin - if I tried to sell 30% of all coins I'd crash out my price and barely see a fraction of their book value if I didn't actually collapse the entire currency by causing extreme bad faith.

 

Now, you have no idea how much gold is being moved around the world right now. Nobody actually knows how much China has, India has, the USA has, Germany has etc. They all claim certain amounts but these aren't verified. And even more worryingly it's all moved and stored in secret, at great expense.

 

'Mr. Satoshi's' bitcoins however are entirely out in the open. People even have trackers placed on the addresses to watch for any movement. And you can bet that if they did move in large amounts, the market would respond accordingly. Your theoretical 'dump' of 30% of all bitcoins is just that - theoretical. It couldn't happen under current conditions.

 

How do you think the markets would react if the USA promised not to move any gold for 10 years? Or China? Or India? It'd be an absolute nonsense to suggest such a thing.

 

tl;dr - you're talking at length about a topic you only know the lightest surface details of. Please read a little more before making such bold pronouncements in the future.

post #156 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


Huh? I didn't think it was obscure information.

Russia banned the use if bitcoin. It sounds like Germany's making steps to regulate.

There's been a few arrests for Bitcoin exchange operators, the most high profile being the operator of Silk Road.

If it's really hypocrisy, are PayPal & Square still on the App Store?

 

Perhaps what I meant to say was 'double standards' - perfectly exemplified by the existence of PayPal & Square on the App Store, whilst bitcoin is banned. Has PayPal never been used for fraud or drugs? Has Square never processed a fraudulent credit card? To suggest they haven't is just wishful thinking.

 

Silk Road was not a bitcoin exchange. Drug marketplace does not equal exchange, or do you not understand that? An exchange is where people buy and sell bitcoins for other currencies. The other exchange operator who was arrested was Charlie Shrem, but there's more to that case than meets the eye.

 

Russia has banned bitcoin. *clap* *clap* - one country. 'Making steps to' 'thinking of' 'planning to' does not mean the same as 'have actually made it illegal'. To claim so is truly dishonest.

 

Why not just ban bitcoin apps in the Russian app store, like they did with Grindr? Double standards.

post #157 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Perhaps what I meant to say was 'double standards' - perfectly exemplified by the existence of PayPal & Square on the App Store, whilst bitcoin is banned. Has PayPal never been used for fraud or drugs? Has Square never processed a fraudulent credit card? To suggest they haven't is just wishful thinking.

Silk Road was not a bitcoin exchange. Drug marketplace does not equal exchange, or do you not understand that? An exchange is where people buy and sell bitcoins for other currencies. The other exchange operator who was arrested was Charlie Shrem, but there's more to that case than meets the eye.

Russia has banned bitcoin. *clap* *clap* - one country. 'Making steps to' 'thinking of' 'planning to' does not mean the same as 'have actually made it illegal'. To claim so is truly dishonest.

Why not just ban bitcoin apps in the Russian app store, like they did with Grindr? Double standards.

1) PayPal and Square use legal tender and report their transactions to the appropriate bodies. I can also get off a plane in Russia or Thailand and have my US currency converted to Rubles or Baht right at the airport. I can't do this with bitcoins so stop pretending that legal tender and bitcoins are all the same thing.

2) You or the other anti-Apple person on this thread said that Apple removed all apps that allow payments because they are trying to corner the market on iOS payments. Is this no longer the case?

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post #158 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) PayPal and Square use legal tender and report their transactions to the appropriate bodies. I can also get off a plane in Russia or Thailand and have my US currency converted to Rubles or Baht right at the airport. I can't do this with bitcoins so stop pretending that legal tender and bitcoins are all the same thing.

2) You or the other anti-Apple person on this thread said that Apple removed all apps that allow payments because they are trying to corner the market on iOS payments. Is this no longer the case?

 

Well done on moving the goalposts. First it's the claim that keeping PayPal and Square on the app store but banning bitcoin is not hypocritical, but then you change it to 'well, bitcoin and legal tender are not the same thing'. Nice shift there. By the way, bitcoin is legal tender. As in, it's not illegal and it's a form of tender.

 

And then you ignore the rest of my reply and try to put words into my mouth regarding a previous claim as to Apple's motives behind all of this. Good dodge. Yes, I still think Apple has ulterior motives regarding digital payment plans that are influencing their bitcoin move.

post #159 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Well done on moving the goalposts. First it's the claim that keeping PayPal and Square on the app store but banning bitcoin is not hypocritical, but then you change it to 'well, bitcoin and legal tender are not the same thing'. Nice shift there. By the way, bitcoin is legal tender. As in, it's not illegal and it's a form of tender.

And then you ignore the rest of my reply and try to put words into my mouth regarding a previous claim as to Apple's motives behind all of this. Good dodge. Yes, I still think Apple has ulterior motives regarding digital payment plans that are influencing their bitcoin move.

1) The only goal posts that have been moved are by you and the other poster. You even wrote, " What I did say is that these are all doing the same as bitcoin apps - enabling electronic transfer of value between individuals and businesses. So why are these allowed when bitcoin apps aren't?" to suggest the the problem is because it's electronic, which is what ATM, CC and Debit card payments, and pretty much all banking is today. You moved the goal posts.

2) You've now shifted the posts at least a 3rd time. First to say it's legal simply because it exists, a second to say it's the same as any other financial transaction that is electronic and therefore must be legal, and now to say bitcoins are "coins or banknotes that must be accepted if offered in payment of a debt."


PS: As I've stated before I'm very much in favour of bitcoin as a concept and think that in my lifetime we'll likely have a (somewhat) universal, decentralized currency, but Bitcoin isn't it even though some of its code will likely still be utilized and the name may stick as a generic term

PPS: Your position here isn't rational or logical, but emotional, which means you aren't likely to make a valid argument and the harder you try the less likely you are to succeed. You need to come at this from an objective viewpoint which, unfortunately for you, means to stop looking for some odious reason why Apple would no longer support bitcoin now that it's gaining in notority and start looking at the facts.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/11/14 at 9:53am

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #160 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Perhaps what I meant to say was 'double standards' - perfectly exemplified by the existence of PayPal & Square on the App Store, whilst bitcoin is banned. Has PayPal never been used for fraud or drugs? Has Square never processed a fraudulent credit card? To suggest they haven't is just wishful thinking.

Silk Road was not a bitcoin exchange. Drug marketplace does not equal exchange, or do you not understand that? An exchange is where people buy and sell bitcoins for other currencies. The other exchange operator who was arrested was Charlie Shrem, but there's more to that case than meets the eye.

Russia has banned bitcoin. *clap* *clap* - one country. 'Making steps to' 'thinking of' 'planning to' does not mean the same as 'have actually made it illegal'. To claim so is truly dishonest.

Why not just ban bitcoin apps in the Russian app store, like they did with Grindr? Double standards.

Do you honestly think that banning (or attempts to ban) the use of bitcoin is going to stop at Russia? I'm sorry, but it's almost certainly going to get worse before it gets better.

Germany has deemed it worthy of regulation and taxation, but it will be legitimized as part of the process. I don't think attempts to regulatie & tax it will stop at just Germany, either.

Also: US regarded at least *this* Bitcoin exchange being regarded as an unlicensed money transmitting business:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/27/bitcoin-ceo-arrest_n_4674148.html

And that might be just the key. I don't know if any bit coin exchanges are licensed to operate as such. If it's unlicensed, why should Apple have anything to do with it?
Edited by JeffDM - 2/11/14 at 10:57am
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