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Blockchain CEO calls Apple 'gatekeeper to innovation,' says Bitcoin app removal signals payments... - Page 2

post #41 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Fact: Apple didn't say why they pulled the app. Which is strange and I'm sure frustrating to the developer, but they should attempt to communicate with Apple developer relations instead of jumping on the conspiracy bandwagon on CNBC.


They have removed every bit coin app, though.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/09/how-does-apple-really-feel-about-bitcoin/

I think that the iBooks thing was BS, and Amazon is an abusive monopoly.   Here the shoe is on the other foot - Apple is abusing its market power in an attempt to corner a position in payments.

This is no different that the stuff Microsoft used to do.  For all of you arguing that Apple's actions are not anticompetitive, try to imagine somebody using the same arguments about Microsoft in the year 2000 or so - you all have become the people that you used to hate.

tzeshan - android is not a safe platform to use bit coin on, too much malware.

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post #42 of 204
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post
I think that the iBooks thing was BS, and Amazon is an abusive monopoly.   Here the shoe is on the other foot - Apple is abusing its market power in an attempt to corner a position in payments.

 

Because the only possible way to make a payment on an iDevice is to use Apple’s servi–oh, wait, that’s completely wrong.

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post #43 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Because the only possible way to make a payment on an iDevice is to use Apple’s servi–oh, wait, that’s completely wrong.


If Apple is successful, then it won't be the only way to make a payment, but it will be the most convent way to make a payment, which will result in a monopoly  (just like Amazon prime is going to result in a monopoly).

You just want that to happen, is all.

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post #44 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post


They have removed every bit coin app, though.

http://techcrunch.com/2013/12/09/how-does-apple-really-feel-about-bitcoin/


I think that the iBooks thing was BS, and Amazon is an abusive monopoly.   Here the shoe is on the other foot - Apple is abusing its market power in an attempt to corner a position in payments.


This is no different that the stuff Microsoft used to do.  For all of you arguing that Apple's actions are not anticompetitive, try to imagine somebody using the same arguments about Microsoft in the year 2000 or so - you all have become the people that you used to hate.


tzeshan - android is not a safe platform to use bit coin on, too much malware.

What market power. Everyone says Google has 80% market share with Android.
post #45 of 204
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post
If Apple is successful, then it wont be the only way to make a payment, but it will be the most convent way to make a payment, which will result in a monopoly

 

That’s absolutely psychotic. Convenience ≠ monopoly.

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post #46 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Apple is abusing its market power in an attempt to corner a position in payments.

What you're talking about is specifically supporting bitcoin yet you're claim is very, very different. Apps by Intuit, PayPal and Square readily come to mind as a way of making a payment using an iDevice.

Let me know when Apple starts banning all apps that support payments using legal tender.

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post #47 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleworks View Post
 

It's amazing and terrifying how people on this web site will defend Apple no matter what.  This is simple anti-competitive behavior. 

 

 

Don't be naive.  That means they would have to ban US currency too.  Also, virtually every other currency in existence.  Also PayPal. 

 

Don't you people get that, by allowing Apple (or Google) to ban/approve apps and content,  you no longer have control over your own personal lives. 


Sounds like you are the one that is naive, if you have a currency that is freely traded with no tracking then this is a problem.  This invites all kind of illegal actives and tax frauds.  The governments around the world will not allow this to go mainstream. 

post #48 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by bottleworks View Post
 

It's amazing and terrifying how people on this web site will defend Apple no matter what.  This is simple anti-competitive behavior. 

Typical bitcoin-speak. There’s nothing anti-competitive here. Last I looked, there were dozens of payment apps on the App Store, including PayPal, Square, Intuit, many banks, etc.

post #49 of 204
Originally Posted by kenwk View Post
Sounds like you are the one that is naive, if you have a currency that is freely traded with no tracking then this is a problem.  This invites all kind of illegal actives and tax frauds.  The governments around the world will not allow this to go mainstream. 

 

Wasn’t it just recently that The Silk Road was raided? It was discovered that they were in possession of HALF OF THE BITCOINS EVER MINED. HALF. :lol:

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post #50 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Go away.

You could be a rich man if you charged $.05 to anyone that says "I own so and so, but....". lol.gif
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post #51 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Wasn’t it just recently that The Silk Road was raided? It was discovered that they were in possession of HALF OF THE BITCOINS EVER MINED. HALF. lol.gif

Yes, I'm not sure about the 'half' part but it was a large sum.

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE9910TR20131002?irpc=932
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post #52 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That’s absolutely psychotic. Convenience ≠ monopoly.
Microsoft never blocked other internet browsers.

So yes, making your own solution more convenient can be an abuse of power.

Apple isn't a monopoly, so if it did remove BlockCoin for competitive reasons it likely isn't an illegal abuse, but still an abuse nevertheless.

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post #53 of 204
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Microsoft never blocked other internet browsers.

 

And Apple’s blocking Bitcoin from their… Oh, wait, they’re not, are they?

 
So yes, making your own solution more convenient can be an abuse of power.

 

Yes. And? Until that says, ‘is’, the point is moot.

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post #54 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Microsoft never blocked other internet browsers.

They didn't have to, most people didn’t have the internet speeds to download software, plus why buy a browser if MS is giving it away for free.
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post #55 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Wasn’t it just recently that The Silk Road was raided? It was discovered that they were in possession of HALF OF THE BITCOINS EVER MINED. HALF. :lol:


150k is not half of 10 million...    Whoever told you it was half is terrible at math.

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post #56 of 204
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post
150k is not half of 10 million...    Whoever told you it was half is terrible at math.

 

That was then; this is now, yeah?

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #57 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

They didn't have to, most people didn’t have the internet speeds to download software, plus why buy a browser if MS is giving it away for free.

Netscape was giving it away for free before Microsoft, which simply adopted Netscape’s strategy.  And it was Netscape’s complaint to the DoJ that started the whole investigation that led to the finding of monopoly.

post #58 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Netscape was giving it away for free before Microsoft, which simply adopted Netscape’s strategy.  And it was Netscape’s complaint to the DoJ that started the whole investigation that led to the finding of monopoly.

I've never heard that Netscape was giving their browser away for free. What was their business model if the browser was free?

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post #59 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Netscape was giving it away for free before Microsoft, which simply adopted Netscape’s strategy.  And it was Netscape’s complaint to the DoJ that started the whole investigation that led to the finding of monopoly.

It was only free for some, noncommercial and educational users, but others had to license it.
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post #60 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by d4NjvRzf View Post
 

All of the major platforms, such as the BSDs, Linux, OS X, and windows, have enabled users to program their own machines. With a basic knowledge of programming, users could write and execute their own code on their computers using freely available tools and official APIs. If you were dissatisfied with a piece of software or wanted some software that was not published for your platform, there was nothing stopping you from rolling up your sleeves, writing, and running your own implementation. Thus, if one regards smartphones as computers, then iOS is practically the only platform where a third party has the final say over what instructions the user can load on his computer.

You can in fact write any program you want and run on in your iPhone. You need a Mac, then just download Xcode (a free download), write the program, plug your iPhone in to the USB port and install it. It could be a porn or gambling app or anything and Xcode won't stop you. Where the restrictions come in is if you try to distribute the app through the App Store. So basically you can put whatever you want on your own phone, just not everybody else's.

post #61 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

That was then; this is now, yeah?


Silk Road was shut down in November 2013.

Total bitcoins mined as of November 2013:  approximately 11,800,000

Total bit coins mined as of now:  approximately 12,300,000

https://blockchain.info/charts/total-bitcoins

Total bitcoins seised from Silk Road in November 2013:   144,336

 

So, in November 2013, when Silk Road was shut down, Silk Road had 144,336/11,800,000 = 1.2% of all bit coins, not half.

QED

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post #62 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And Apple’s blocking Bitcoin from their… Oh, wait, they’re not, are they?
They appear to be blocking BitCoin wallet apps, so yes they are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yes. And? Until that says, ‘is’, the point is moot.
Hardly. The point becomes "is this what Apple is doing"? It doesn't immediately appear so, since Apple doesn't currently have a payments service, but the argument has become more of a theoretical one anyway. If Apple were to develop their own payments solution and also take steps to remove or hobble other payments services then that could viably be called an abuse of position.

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post #63 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

What you're talking about is specifically supporting bitcoin yet you're claim is very, very different. Apps by Intuit, PayPal and Square readily come to mind as a way of making a payment using an iDevice.

Let me know when Apple starts banning all apps that support payments using legal tender.

Predictably, he has no come back for that.
When Apple gives no reason, haters project their deepest conspiracies and beliefs to fill the void.

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post #64 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've never heard that Netscape was giving their browser away for free. What was their business model if the browser was free?

From Netscape’s IPO Documents, 1995:

"Netscape Communications Corporation provides a comprehensive line of client, server, and integrated applications software for communications and commerce on the Internet and private Internet Protocol (IP) networks. … Designed with enhanced security code, these software products provide the confidentiality required to execute financial transactions and to sell advertisements on the Internet and private IP networks.

 

….Incorporating both browser and server functions, the company’s integrated applications software programs are designed to provide enterprises with the capability to manage large-scale commercial sites on the Internet. Such applications enable these enterprises to conduct full-scale electronic commerce through a seamless system."

 

From an HBS IPO Case written about Netscape:

"….the majority [of revenues] were generated by one of Netscape’s three server products, Netscape Commerce Server. Revenues from Netscape’s server and integrated applications products were expected to increase as a percentage of overall revenues in the future.

 

Using the same “give away today and make money tomorrow” strategy that Andreessen’s team had used to popularize Mosaic, by the spring of 1995 Netscape had succeeded in capturing 75% of the Web browser market. Mosaic, under the guise of Spyglass, trailed far behind with 5% of the market. Having set the industry standard, Netscape was poised to make money by selling server software to companies that wanted marketing access to potential consumers."

post #65 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It was only free for some, noncommercial and educational users, but others had to license it.

See above.

post #66 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post


Silk Road was shut down in November 2013.


Total bitcoins mined as of November 2013:  approximately 11,800,000
Total bit coins mined as of now:  approximately 12,300,000

https://blockchain.info/charts/total-bitcoins


Total bitcoins seised from Silk Road in November 2013:   144,336

So, in November 2013, when Silk Road was shut down, Silk Road had 144,336/11,800,000 = 1.2% of all bit coins, not half.


QED

You are assuming the FBI recovered all the bitcoins from Silk Road. I pretty sure Roberts had a ton of bitcoins hiding off the books.

Still have one person owning 1% of any currency is ridiculous.
post #67 of 204
Only about 200k people own bitcoins. So Why the F would Apple risk billions of dollars to cater to such a small group of people?
http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/12/fbi_wallet/

The creator of bitcoins owns about 10% of all the coins. Ridiculous and extremely shady and risky. Why would Apple risk get hammered by the DOJ for almost zero benefit. Risk reward biotech. Apple ain't a non profit company.
post #68 of 204
I thought Apple was all about groundbreaking innovation.

Bitcoin is the largest innovation in personal finance since the credit card. It is NOT illegal, and therefore claims that Apple removed it because it's currently not legal are just unjustified.

As for the claims that it's only used for drugs - less than 5% of bitcoin passed through the Silk Road. Yet nearly all US$100 bills have trace amounts of cocaine on them, HSBC laundered hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars for Mexican drug cartels, and I go buy heroin in any city using untraceable cash.

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding - 'nobody is forcing you to have an iPhone, Apple can choose what goes on it.' 10 years ago Microsoft claimed the same defence for packaging IE into their operating system.
post #69 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding - 'nobody is forcing you to have an iPhone, Apple can choose what goes on it.' 10 years ago Microsoft claimed the same defence for packaging IE into their operating system.

The IE thing was about bundling a single app almost everyone with a computer needs to use. This is about rejecting apps very few people use.

People can say the same with the boob jiggle apps - Apple has no reason to ban them and having a single store means no jiggling.

What's the expected outcome?
They either relax the rules and allow more apps into their store, which they are then seen as promoting or they allow users to install apps themselves.

They already allow users to install apps themselves if they are developers and they allow companies to setup developer servers to distribute their own apps outside of Apple's approval.

They've decided they don't want to promote boob jiggling and they don't want to promote bitcoin. They haven't said why but it's their choice. They provide alternative options for people who really need these apps.
post #70 of 204
Because boob jiggling and potentially competitive personal financial services applications are the same thing right?

Here's even more hypocrisy - Barclays Pingit, Yoyo, PayPal and others are all allowed apps. But an app which passes ownership of a alternative value token from one holder to another - nope, banned.
post #71 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Still have one person owning 1% of any currency is ridiculous.
Pretty sure I remember reading that John D Rockefeller at his richest was worth 1% of all dollars in print. Might be urban myth.

No particular point, just a (possibly) interesting (possible) fact.

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post #72 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post
Barclays Pingit, Yoyo, PayPal and others are all allowed apps. 

Last I looked, they were all dealing with real currencies. Do any of them deal with bitcoins?

post #73 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

Because boob jiggling and potentially competitive personal financial services applications are the same thing right?

Here's even more hypocrisy - Barclays Pingit, Yoyo, PayPal and others are all allowed apps. But an app which passes ownership of a alternative value token from one holder to another - nope, banned.

It's funny how one of you trolls first claims that "Apple is abusing its market power in an attempt to corner a position in payments." but when it's pointed out that Apple allows multiple payment systems, just not ones that use bitcoin, you come back with an argument that 1) bitcoin is completely legal and accepted currency by the US, and 2) that all these other payment systems using legal tender are somehow engaging in nefarious activities that Apple supports by creating some untraceable, illegal currency.

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post #74 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by NanoAkron View Post

I thought Apple was all about groundbreaking innovation.

Bitcoin is the largest innovation in personal finance since the credit card. It is NOT illegal, and therefore claims that Apple removed it because it's currently not legal are just unjustified.

As for the claims that it's only used for drugs - less than 5% of bitcoin passed through the Silk Road. Yet nearly all US$100 bills have trace amounts of cocaine on them, HSBC laundered hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars for Mexican drug cartels, and I go buy heroin in any city using untraceable cash.

The hypocrisy in this thread is astounding - 'nobody is forcing you to have an iPhone, Apple can choose what goes on it.' 10 years ago Microsoft claimed the same defence for packaging IE into their operating system.

Bit coin is ground breaking?

How come no one can get an interview with the creator of bitcoin?
How come the creator won't reveal is identity?
Sounds extremely shady to me.

The only thing that is keeping bit coin alive is rampant greed and the ability to buy illegal goods and services without being tracked

In five years once all the founders of bitcoin make enough money they will shut it down and cash out. That will collapse the entire system (don't forget the founder owns almost 10% of all bitcoins) then bitcoins will be as worthless as Civil War Confederacy Dollars. There will be massive sue jobs. And who will have to foot the bill? The parties with money which would be Apple. Why the F would Apple open itself to this?

Bit coin was worth $25 a year ago. Now it's worth $700. Don't you think it's possible that the creators of bit coin are artificially boosted the value on the open market? It would be easy to do since they own a huge chunk of the total coins. They pump it up until they make billions and then they sell everything and crash the market.

Read this article that shows bit coin is nothing more than a pyramid ponzu scheme
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/how-the-bitcoin-1-manipulate-the-currency-deceive-its-user-community-and-make-its-future-uncertain/2013/06/30

This article explains that 70% of bitcoins are owned by 100 accounts and that these early adapters can hit a kill switch that will allow these top owners to get their money but everyone else gets nothing. Pathetic. Fraud. Pos. greed. Get this crap out go here
http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009

One owner has over 150,000 separate accounts. Why? To deceive. This owner is constantly selling and buying bitcoins between his 150,000 accounts to drive up the price. The best thing is the bit coin is not regulated so what he is doing is not illegal.

All you bit coin lovers need to get your head out of the sand
Edited by sog35 - 2/8/14 at 8:25pm
post #75 of 204
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
They appear to be blocking BitCoin wallet apps, so yes they are.

 

Nope. Read it again.

 

Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
It's funny how one of you trolls first claims that "Apple is abusing its market power in an attempt to corner a position in payments." but when it's pointed out that Apple allows multiple payment systems, just not ones that use bitcoin, you come back with an argument that 1) bitcoin is completely legal and accepted currency by the US, and 2) that all these other payment systems using legal tender are somehow engaging in nefarious activities that Apple supports by creating some untraceable, illegal currency.

 

Makes me want to see an XLS pop up. You know, to compliment Major League Soccer and as a throwback to the XFL. Have the game be played on a circular field and have the goalposts constantly moving around the edge of it. Don’t even keep them equidistant; have them right next to each other sometimes. That’d be neat, I think. It’s like that basketball variant, too, where the nets are surrounded by trampolines. That’s the way to go.

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #76 of 204
if money laundering is considered legal then Apple should definitely allow these kind of apps.
Edited by gimarbazat - 2/8/14 at 11:11pm
post #77 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


They appear to be blocking BitCoin wallet apps, so yes they are.

 

Yes, Apple is blocking BitCoin wallet apps, but they're not stopping anyone from using a web app for any BitCoin activities. 

post #78 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Nope. Read it again.
Oh, ok, left is right and up is down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The CEO of Blockchain, which had its Bitcoin wallet app removed from the App Store on Thursday
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Bitcoin wallet alternatives, of which there are none on iOS

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post #79 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

How come no one can get an interview with the creator of bitcoin?
How come the creator won't reveal is identity?
Sounds extremely shady to me.

The only thing that is keeping bit coin alive is rampant greed and the ability to buy illegal goods and services without being tracked

This article explains that 70% of bitcoins are owned by 100 accounts and that these early adapters can hit a kill switch that will allow these top owners to get their money but everyone else gets nothing. Pathetic. Fraud. Pos. greed. Get this crap out go here
 

 

Just to address 3 of your points:

 

Can you interview the inventor of banks or credit cards, cars or even boats? Does that make them less useful?

 

Heard of overstock.com, scan.co.uk, tigerdirect, Virgin Galactic, Tesla motors? Are they 'selling illegal goods and services without being tracked'?

 

70 individuals have more money than 50% OF THE REST OF THE WORLD - does that make money less useful?

 

Bitcoin is open source software (seriously, go to https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin) - there are no kill switches, there's no way for 'the owners' to take control of everyone's bitcoins.

 

Educate yourself about it before you start just making shit up.

post #80 of 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


It's funny how one of you trolls first claims that "Apple is abusing its market power in an attempt to corner a position in payments." but when it's pointed out that Apple allows multiple payment systems, just not ones that use bitcoin, you come back with an argument that 1) bitcoin is completely legal and accepted currency by the US, and 2) that all these other payment systems using legal tender are somehow engaging in nefarious activities that Apple supports by creating some untraceable, illegal currency.

 

A 'troll' is not someone who just disagrees with you. You are also completely misrepresenting my argument, I believe maliciously.

 

Bitcoin is not illegal. It is accepted by shops and businesses across the US (see coinmap.org).

 

These other payment systems are not engaging in 'nefarious activities'. Where did I say this? What I did say is that these are all doing the same as bitcoin apps - enabling electronic transfer of value between individuals and businesses. So why are these allowed when bitcoin apps aren't? 

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