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post #201 of 242

Well, I remember, as I stated earlier in another thread, that most Americans believe we fought AGAINST the Soviets in WWII.  So, we aren't the brightest bulbs in the tanning booth, overall.

 

Something like half (I forget the percentage, now -- it's early) couldn't locate Louisiana on a US map?  Come on.  Louisiana?!  It's about as easy to find as Texas.

 

I love my celebrity news and sports as much as the next person.  I follow fashion diligently.  I can tell all sorts of things about what Tom Ford did this last NYFW, or that Taylor Swift cut her hair, or that Jennifer Jones, the Canadian skip in Curling, is undefeated at 5-0 and curling about 94%.  But I ALSO CAN FIND FUCKING CHINA ON A WORLD MAP!

 

I realize that ignorance has become some sort of "badge of honor."  I realize that the InterWebs, while giving us unlimited access to knowledge has also made us dumber by the day.  But for ****'s sake, people: Get a god damned grip!  The Bill of Rights?!  Really?  What the hell are they doing in schools anyways?  We learned that shit by 4th grade, at the latest.

 

I'm so fucking sick of people justifying the total, utter ignorance of our populace.  There is no justification!  The fact that these people can even vote is vomit-inducing to me.  I'm sorry, but until people feel BAD about being ignorant fools, there is no answer.

 

/rant

post #202 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

Well, I remember, as I stated earlier in another thread, that most Americans believe we fought AGAINST the Soviets in WWII.  So, we aren't the brightest bulbs in the tanning booth, overall.

Something like half (I forget the percentage, now -- it's early) couldn't locate Louisiana on a US map?  Come on.  Louisiana?!  It's about as easy to find as Texas.

I love my celebrity news and sports as much as the next person.  I follow fashion diligently.  I can tell all sorts of things about what Tom Ford did this last NYFW, or that Taylor Swift cut her hair, or that Jennifer Jones, the Canadian skip in Curling, is undefeated at 5-0 and curling about 94%.  But I ALSO CAN FIND FUCKING CHINA ON A WORLD MAP!

I realize that ignorance has become some sort of "badge of honor."  I realize that the InterWebs, while giving us unlimited access to knowledge has also made us dumber by the day.  But for ****'s sake, people: Get a god damned grip!  The Bill of Rights?!  Really?  What the hell are they doing in schools anyways?  We learned that shit by 4th grade, at the latest.

I'm so fucking sick of people justifying the total, utter ignorance of our populace.  There is no justification!  The fact that these people can even vote is vomit-inducing to me.  I'm sorry, but until people feel BAD about being ignorant fools, there is no answer.

/rant

Like curiosity, ignorance has no value, good or bad. Getting wound-up at people for their ignorance is hysterical, hypocritical and pointless.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #203 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Like curiosity, ignorance has no value, good or bad. Getting wound-up at people for their ignorance is hysterical, hypocritical and pointless.

 

I completely disagree.  Sorry.

post #204 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

I realize that ignorance has become some sort of "badge of honor."  I realize that the InterWebs, while giving us unlimited access to knowledge has also made us dumber by the day.  But for ****'s sake, people: Get a god damned grip!  The Bill of Rights?!  Really?  What the hell are they doing in schools anyways?  We learned that shit by 4th grade, at the latest.

I'm so fucking sick of people justifying the total, utter ignorance of our populace.  There is no justification!  The fact that these people can even vote is vomit-inducing to me.  I'm sorry, but until people feel BAD about being ignorant fools, there is no answer.

/rant

A couple things here I take issue with. I don't think we are dumber but it's impossible to accurately measure. All we can measure is the answers for a given test but how do you know if a test is objective. If you grew up during or on the cusp of WWII you are likely to know a lot more about it than say someone who came decades later. The same for pretty much everything. What was everyday life to us is going to be history to future generations. I don't think that should be a mark against someone because the focus is very different.

That said, when talking about the Bill of Rights or Federalist Papers it's history to all of us. Why does it appear less people know about these things today? Did they fail themselves? Was it their parents? Was it their underpaid teachers? Was it a poorly funded school system? Is it society as a whole? What are the fundamental changes to the culture that may be the cause of this? I have no answers to those questions.

Also, you use both dumber and ignorant. One means stupid, as in a lowered capacity to learn as compared to something else, and the other means a lack of knowledge. If kids today are indeed dumber then we surely can't blame them. If they are ignorant can we blame them? You said you learned about the Bill of Rights in 4th grade, I'm also around that time, but if kids today aren't learning about it then I can't see that it's their fault. What 10yo would seek out that information? Certainly not me.

Finally, consider today's communication. There is so much noise to cut through that it's any wonder anything can get accomplished. Perhaps we are seeing the result of a generation that has a great deal of information in multiple areas or perhaps we're seeing a generation that is taking a cue from Albert Einstein by not wasting time memorizing what is easily looked up.

Quote:
A reporter interviewed Albert Einstein. At the end of the interview, the reporter asked if he could have Einstein's phone number so he could call if he had further questions.

“Certainly” replied Einstein. He picked up the phone directory and looked up his phone number, then wrote it on a slip of paper and handed it to the reporter.

Dumbfounded, the reporter said, "You are considered to be the smartest man in the world and you can't remember your own phone number?”

Einstein replied, “Why should I memorize something when I know where to find it?”

PS: Even this 3 minute post is time I could have been doing something truly useful (even though I tell myself It helps me to focus certain ideas). I really should be studying Spanish 6-8 hours per day until I'm satisfactorly fluent, but it's somewhat of a chore because it doesn't come easy to me. No language does, which includes computer languages with complex syntax, like Obj-C. I am stunted by only having ever learned English as a child and seemingly have no natural aptitude for it. Now spatial recognition I am quite naturally gifted which confounds me when people can't find what I think are obvious places on a map, but again, that could simply being innate bias.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #205 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

 

I realize that ignorance has become some sort of "badge of honor."  I realize that the InterWebs, while giving us unlimited access to knowledge has also made us dumber by the day.  But for ****'s sake, people: Get a god damned grip!  The Bill of Rights?!  Really?  What the hell are they doing in schools anyways?  We learned that shit by 4th grade, at the latest.

 

 

/rant

One of the problems is that many public schools, because of the demands of "testing", don't teach history in most elementary school grades anymore.   I found this out recently and was totally shocked by it.    My daughter lives in upstate New York.  She home schools my granddaughter because the public schools and even the local private schools are so incredibly awful.   In the fifth grade, the public school kids take only four subjects:  Math, "Literacy", Health and Phys Ed.   Once every six or seven schooldays, they get one session in art or music.   That's it.   I happened to mention this to a co-worker, who lives somewhere in New Jersey, and she told me that her elementary school kid doesn't get any history instruction either.   So no science or technology, except what's included in the Health course, no history and no what we used to call "Language Arts".    

 

Is there any wonder that we're raising a nation of idiots?    There are certainly some people getting a great education - those are the people who become the successful entrepreneurs or become important executives at leading companies at young ages.    But the masses know so little as to be frightening and IMO, it's one of the reasons we have such a high unemployment rate.    There are actually a great number of jobs available for skilled knowledge workers.   The last time I checked Apple's site, there was something like 2500 open positions, not including any of the retail jobs.    The Audio Engineering Society site lists a fair number of open jobs.   There are jobs for minimum wage service workers.    But there aren't very many jobs for anyone else.   You have to be able to generate value for a company, you can't just be a "body" anymore.    Back from about '86 to '96, I was a senior technology executive at a major media company.    We bought another company and most of the VPs who were retained didn't do much more than checking in with their subordinates every once in a while and handling HR issues.    They were out the door every day at 4pm (based on an 8am start time).   Those days are long over - those execs would be out of a job today because they added no real value to the company.   It was nothing more than an old boys club. 

 

Even most college grads who I've met, unless they've graduated from an Ivy League school (and sometimes not even then) seem to know very little.   We even seem to usually want to elect a President who is dumb.    So Clinton was hated in part because he was a policy wonk.   Bush II was (initially) loved because he seemed like a guy you wanted to have a beer with even though he had massive troubles putting a sentence together (never mind an idea).  

post #206 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



That said, when talking about the Bill of Rights or Federalist Papers it's history to all of us. Why does it appear less people know about these things today? Did they fail themselves? Was it their parents? Was it their underpaid teachers? Was it a poorly funded school system? Is it society as a whole? What are the fundamental changes to the culture that may be the cause of this? I have no answers to those questions.
 

I think it's pretty obvious if we look around us.   What kind of topics dominate the conversation?   What do the news outlets care about?   Which public figures are considered to be worthy and which are criticized?

 

Most of the conversation is about badly behaving actors or musicians, celebrities of the moment and athletes.    The news rarely goes beyond the headline.    If you're a Bieber or Khardashian, you go to the top of the news pile.    People spend countless hours sending out trivial tweets or trying to make the world think that every trivial aspect of their lives should be important to other people by posting on Facebook.   How many people, especially younger people, do you see walking down the street with their head down staring at their phone.    It's said that the average high school girl sends out 200 text messages a day.  

 

Back when the three TV networks dominated, even when people began to give up reading newspapers, at least the news presented on TV was somewhat serious....extensive coverage of Vietnam or the civil rights movement.   CBS ran a series called "Health In America" in prime time.   That would never happen today.   Fewer people watched the recent State of the Union than ever before.   

 

Back before radio deregulation, most radio stations fulfilled their public service requirements by having five minutes of news every hour.   It wasn't great news, but at least it kept listeners somewhat aware of the issues of the day.   With no such requirements today, people who listen to music radio hear only music.   But even the all-news stations don't go beyond one sentence past the headline.   Compare that to a BBC broadcast. 

 

Most people get their news from websites today, but because most people refuse to pay for information and the sites are funded by advertising, it's clicks that count and sites get clicks by posting absurdly outrageous stories with almost no detailed content or "shades of gray".    

 

For the most part, we don't consider history or literature important.   Science is no longer trusted.   Our heroes are not great thinkers - instead they're either people who manipulate themselves into some form of celebrity or those who make a lot of money, without giving much thought as to whether what they're producing, if anything, has any true inherent value.     Much of the country is nothing more than strip malls and gas stations.     And our kids spend more hours playing video games than they do reading.   People who are intelligent are considered to be geeks and nerds.    Why shouldn't scientists and engineers be as celebrated as a football player?    

 

Liberals are opposed to standards testing and conservatives have pretty much made teachers the enemy.   Not that paying a teacher a very high salary guarantees success, but in most school systems, teachers make far less than they could make in the corporate world (assuming jobs were available).    When I was in high school and the strong unionization movements of the day make teaching a competitive occupation with industry, I had fabulous teachers, many of whom were authors,  and I received a really terrific public school education.    But as public school teaching salaries didn't keep pace, most of them moved on to teach at the college level.  

 

How many students attempt to really achieve and how many are satisfied to simply get by?     When I see the local high school students coming off the subway in the morning, they're never carrying any books.   How is that even possible?    Why is it our culture so readily accepts people who make no attempt whatsoever to gain knowledge (and frequently punishes those who try to).   Except in sports.   

 

When we had an expanding middle-class, education was seen as a way to get ahead.   But with few jobs available for the masses anyway, education (except for those with very specific high-level knowledge worker skills) is no longer seen as a direct path to a better life. 

 

Look at our cities and compare them to European cities where at least an attempt is made to preserve architecture and culture.    We preserve McDonald's and other fast food chains, Starbucks, gas stations, drug stores, banks, giant shopping malls, big-box stores and sports arenas.   Want to cut hours at the library?  No problem.   Want to force teachers to take less money?  No problem.    Local bookstore on Main Street closing down because the national fast food chain can pay far more rent?  No problem.    My kid wants to spend hours playing the latest video game console?  No problem.   I choose to believe what idiots post on the internet rather than what trained scientists have come to agree upon?   No problem.  

 

During the last presidential primary, not one Republican candidate said they believed in evolution.   (Now I don't happen to believe that they really didn't believe in evolution, I think they just didn't want to alienate their insane base, but still).

 

The issue isn't finding a reason why we've gotten dumber, it's sorting through the multitude of reasons why we have.  

post #207 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

I think it's pretty obvious if we look around us.   What kind of topics dominate the conversation?   What do the news outlets care about?   Which public figures are considered to be worthy and which are criticized?

Most of the conversation is about badly behaving actors or musicians, celebrities of the moment and athletes.    The news rarely goes beyond the headline.    If you're a Bieber or Khardashian, you go to the top of the news pile.    People spend countless hours sending out trivial tweets or trying to make the world think that every trivial aspect of their lives should be important to other people by posting on Facebook.   How many people, especially younger people, do you see walking down the street with their head down staring at their phone.    It's said that the average high school girl sends out 200 text messages a day.

That reminds me of this…

Are the kids to really to blame when this is what "adults" on the news are doing?
Quote:
The issue isn't finding a reason why we've gotten dumber, it's sorting through the multitude of reasons why we have.  

Again, I still don't see how people are more dumb today than yesterday. All I see are people being more ignorant toward things previous generations held more dear, but the older generations tend to be ignorant to what the younger generations know. I don't see how replacing one nugget of knowledge for another indicates that one has less capacity for learning or lacking in general intelligence.

Each generation says this about the next but do you feel you're less intelligent than people from 100 years ago? I would say I know about exceptionally more things than they ever dreamt, but when it comes to a specific field that they had more of their life to experience I am at a disadvantage. I know what agriculture and animal husbandry is, and have grown vegetables but I couldn't run a farm. I couldn't milk a cow well even if I read a How To page, or harvest a crop.

Furthermore, I have taken astronomy and understand the basics, which include many constellations (in the Northern Hemisphere), mathematical proofs and detailed information about the distances and components of celestial bodies better than nearly everyone in human history, but I certainly can't navigate by the stars. I couldn't build my own sextant if my life depended on it. I could look it up, study it, and build one but I don't have that knowledge right now… but why should I?

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #208 of 242
To SolipsismX:

Thank you for your eloquent reply.

We are so overwhelmed by information today that I'm not surprised that people often seem more ignorant. Why memorise something when you know you've got it at your fingertips?

We think we know so much more than our ancestors, but I don't think that's true. We know a little about lots of subjects, but they say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. In order to really understand a subject, you still need to specialise for a long time.

In fact, one could argue that having such easy access to so much information actually discourages specialisation, which means we may never achieve the heights of skill that past generations reached.

These days, it's considered good to have a broad education. Yet I would argue that the greatest man has achieved has occurred due to geniuses applying an intense focus to a very specific field.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #209 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
That reminds me of this…

Are the kids to really to blame when this is what "adults" on the news are doing?
Again, I still don't see how people are more dumb today than yesterday. All I see are people being more ignorant toward things previous generations held more dear, but the older generations tend to be ignorant to what the younger generations know. I don't see how replacing one nugget of knowledge for another indicates that one has less capacity for learning or lacking in general intelligence.

 

John Stewart highlighted that video and reacted with disgust.    But again, this is what happens when we live in a society in which quality means little.   Ratings mean much because they drive dollars.   And we judge success only by dollars.   No one objects when the news channels pull crap like the above.    But a lot of people object when CPB or NPR, which at least attempts to do better,  gets a few cents per person in taxpayer money.    Back in the days of the big three networks, news was considered a public service, not something you had to make a lot of money from.   But we live in a world today where the markets demand that every bit of revenue be optimized.   The market couldn't care less what anyone is broadcasting as long as it makes money and has growth.  It doesn't care one bit about the effect that programming has on society.    So "Jersey Shore"?   Bring it on.   News that doesn't really have much news?  No problem.    So now we have news shows that aren't much above the level of the National Enquirer.  

 

OK, I'll admit that I don't know whether we're more dumb or more ignorant, but the end result in the same, so it doesn't make much difference. Replacing one bit of knowledge for another does make a difference when we replace knowledge that any reasonable person would deem worthy with "knowledge" that any reasonable person would think was totally trivial.    It's not hard to come to the conclusion that knowledge of say English literature is more worthy than knowledge of what Justin Bieber is doing or what the hot tweet of the day is. 

 

But having said that, there has been tremendous research into how brain activity drives intelligence and how brain activity can offset the effects of aging.   So there is a case to be made that ignorant people do actually become dumber over time.    I think it's also why very young children almost all seem absolutely brilliant.   Many four-year-old boys can name all the dinosaurs and are incredibly imaginative, but a few years later they find it difficult to retain any facts at all if it's not a subject that they're intensely interested in.     Young girls generally are superior to boys at mathematics and problem solving, but once peer pressure steers them away from those subjects, they lose ground, especially once they reach puberty.    

post #210 of 242

To SolipsismX and zoetmb:

 

Thanks for your replies.  I admit that I went a bit overboard and was generally just ranting.  Sometimes I boil over, go on some over-the-top rant, then I just return to being sad again.

 

I agree that it's tough to measure whether we're dumber.  But it sure seems like it (I realize that that's purely subjective and not at all objective).  However, I do really believe that ignorance is a choice.  A person can chose to learn and educate one's self, or he or she can choose not to.

post #211 of 242
Originally Posted by iKronicle View Post
when Apple sued Clone maker Franklin Computers out of business prior to Apple III launch. The result? Apple III crashed and burned

 

See, those two things have nothing to do with one another.

 

Apple no doubt needs to come out with low cost smartphones if they even want to compete in the same markets Android is cleaning up on

 

News flash: they don’t want to compete.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #212 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by iKronicle View Post

^ post

Good grief man, why are you posting on an Apple centric website without any knowledge on the subject?
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post #213 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by iKronicle View Post

Apple no doubt needs to come out with low cost smartphones if they even want to compete in the same markets Android is cleaning up on...

Do you have a source to cite that shows some evidence that Android is cleaning up on profits, the metric that clearly appeals to Apple? Let's remember it makes no difference to Google since Android is a throwaway giveaway OS? Samsung is not Android and Google makes more money from their services running on the iPhone than on the vast numbers of cheap, devices that are being installed with some old version of Android simply because it's free.

No matter how you look at it Apple is the one dominating the mobile profits in both handsets and tablets.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/20/14 at 8:28pm

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #214 of 242
Quote:

Originally Posted by iKronicle View Post
 

blah, blah, blah

 

... They just end up like Ferrari.... making less and less cars so they can only claim how rare and how high the profit margins are growing. Remember that Ferrari is owned by Fiat...

 

blah blah blah

 

Fiat Group currently produces vehicles under twelve brands: Abarth, Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Ferrari, Fiat, Fiat Professional, Jeep, Lancia, Maserati, Ram Trucks, and SRT.

 

WTF is your point?

 

Apple is nothing like Ferrari, Apple could buy Fiat out of pocket change, they and also rans Samsung are sucking all the profits out of handset manufacture.

 

Although Fiat owning Chrysler makes this quite ironic:-

 

 

Viva Italia!

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #215 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by iKronicle View Post
 

No doubt about it.... Apple needs to spread their product range out and quit trying to be the end all that was all they had in their 90's Niche market. They didn't succeed by killing the clones back then, just like they failed when Apple sued Clone maker Franklin Computers out of business prior to Apple III launch. The result? Apple III crashed and burned and Apple failed to sell higher profit margin software they could have been selling had they not killed the clones in each era. 

 

Look back at Steve's decision to kill the clones in an effort to turn lower profit Apple Mac hardware into the Niche only market it became? The clone market was not only paying Apple license fees, but they were buying Apple's software. Mac OS market share grew from an all time low of around 3 to 4% to well over 10% by the time Steve killed them with a contract loophole. Next thing you see is that Mac OS market share tanked back down to that prior 3 to 4% ratio throughout the remaining 90's. But.... it was Software sales to clones consumers that really took the hit. 

 

Apple no doubt needs to come out with low cost smartphones if they even want to compete in the same markets Android is cleaning up on, while growing their market share ever closer to being Ubiquitous, windows PC clones were and still are!  Elitism has no place in business when you're trying to grow market share. They just end up like Ferrari.... making less and less cars so they can only claim how rare and how high the profit margins are growing. Remember that Ferrari is owned by Fiat and they are largely just a "Come On" to get customers in the door. As long as they get them to buy their less expensive Fiats for everyday consumers..... FIAT IS HAPPY!!!  .......and there is no better time than now to spread out product offerings so they cover the high end, mid range and low end consumers wants and needs too!  

You, my friend, are a card carrying member of "the church of marketshare". 

You've bought into the idea that selling the most is do all end all in business. At the same time you're ignoring profits. Yes even the profits of the lowly Mac division. You see the once powerful HP and Dell played that marketshare game only to find out that it was synonymous with the "race to the bottom" game. Where are they now? 

I bet they'd trade their mothers to generate the profits that the less than 5% marketshare of the Mac division generates.

 

The game that Google plays isn't the same one Apple plays.

Google needs to get the most eyeballs on their services. Apple don't have to.

Your argument is like saying, that the world long jump champion, isn't as good an athlete as the world heavy weight boxing champion. 

Two entirely different concepts.

post #216 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post
 

 

Much like the posters citing references like The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, reality television and daily talk shows, your link only shows ignorance on your part if you think that's an accurate representation of Americans.


All i did was post a clip off youtube, i didn't say anything, don't presume to know what I'm thinking, i didn't show anything.
I don't appreciate your tone.
It was a joke, try relaxing.

post #217 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post


All i did was post a clip off youtube, i didn't say anything, don't presume to know what I'm thinking, i didn't show anything.

I don't appreciate your tone.

It was a joke, try relaxing.

It's amazing how ignorant these interviewees are and I bet they don't have to wait too long to find someone that fits their agenda, but I think that is true for any country. I also think the people that are more willing to stop to talk to a stranger with a mic are likely to be less informed. I certainly don't have time to sign waivers and get questions asked by people on the street and any gift they offer isn't likely worth my time.

I think the general feeling assumed by other nations that Americans are ignorant is twofold. 1) America is so prominent in the world of entertainment that you can virtually anywhere in the world to get news about the US. I know this first hand from my travels. 2) The US is such a big country that can be traversed easily that an American can travel often and extensively (as in distances) and never leave its borders. This isn't necessarily a good thing as it does limit ones culture considerably, but it's the reality of being such a large nation with cities from end to end. How long does it take to get from London to Paris via the Chunnel? About 2.5 hours if I remember correctly, while it's about 6 hours of actual flying just to get from one coast to the other to hear people speaking the same language and with almost no cultural changes.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

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post #218 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

Your initial post left open the possibility that you weren't as ignorant as those other posters.  This one has removed all doubt.

Good day, sir.

I don't see where he opined either way. I think he just thought it was a funny clip. I thought it was funny clip.


OT: Last week I read about the Ant on the Rubber Rope paradox on iO9.

I'm likely attributing it improperly but it got me to think about human civilization and knowledge. Humanity is increasing knowledge at faster and faster rates that no individual human can keep up with its growth. As a whole we are much smarter than we've ever been but individually we are less knowledgable (as a percentage) about our world. This divide will continue to grow as long as human civilization continues to grow, but this isn't a bad thing, it just means we will all be more specialized then all previous generations.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #219 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't see where he opined either way.

 

With the way the posts read now (post moderation) that post of mine you're quoting won't make as much sense.

post #220 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I don't see where he opined either way. I think he just thought it was a funny clip. I thought it was funny clip.


OT: Last week I read about the Ant on the Rubber Rope paradox on iO9.

I'm likely attributing it improperly but it got me to think about human civilization and knowledge. Humanity is increasing knowledge at faster and faster rates that no individual human can keep up with its growth. As a whole we are much smarter than we've ever been but individually we are less knowledgable (as a percentage) about our world. This divide will continue to grow as long as human civilization continues to grow, but this isn't a bad thing, it just means we will all be more specialized then all previous generations.

Exactly—which highlights the fallacy that ignorance is a bad thing. Ignorance can potentially be bad or good, but it doesn't intrinsically have any value. We are all incredibly ignorant when it comes to the sum total of human knowledge and always have been, but there's no need to feel bad for it.
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post #221 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post

Exactly—which highlights the fallacy that ignorance is a bad thing. Ignorance can potentially be bad or good, but it doesn't intrinsically have any value. We are all incredibly ignorant when it comes to the sum total of human knowledge and always have been, but there's no need to feel bad for it.

Except when it comes to being ignorant about man's ignorance; one should feel bad about that. 1biggrin.gif
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/23/14 at 3:36pm

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post #222 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Except when it comes to being ignorant about man's ignorance; one should feel about that. 1biggrin.gif

Yes! In fact, a way in which ignorance could be seen as a positive attribute is that it is wiser to adopt an assumed position of ignorance than to profess to know it all. Clumsily put, I admit.
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post #223 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


Exactly—which highlights the fallacy that ignorance is a bad thing. Ignorance can potentially be bad or good, but it doesn't intrinsically have any value. We are all incredibly ignorant when it comes to the sum total of human knowledge and always have been, but there's no need to feel bad for it.

 

But no one measures ignorance or knowledge as to how it compares to the sum of human learning.  It's measured against what an average citizen should probably know.

 

I don't really know squat about string theory, for instance.  I've read some about it, and I've tried to understand.  But when it comes right down to it, English isn't a suitable language for explaining string theory.  Mathematics is.  And my knowledge of math, beyond the basics, is fairly minimal.  So when it comes to physics (beyond what you might learn in HS), my options are fairly limited.

 

But how can a non-brain-damaged adult in the US not know which countries with which we share a border?  Something like 1-in-4 in this country believe that the sun revolves around the Earth.  About 2/3 of Americans cannot tell you what the Constitution is -- and I don't mean explaining the different articles and amendments and everything.  I mean, "What is this document and what does it do?" sort of explanation.

 

It's scary.

post #224 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

But how can a non-brain-damaged adult in the US not know which countries with which we share a border?  Something like 1-in-4 in this country believe that the sun revolves around the Earth.  About 2/3 of Americans cannot tell you what the Constitution is -- and I don't mean explaining the different articles and amendments and everything.  I mean, "What is this document and what does it do?" sort of explanation.

That is certainly something to debate. What knowledge should be so common that we should except everyone to know? Your examples sounds beyond reasonable to me but I counter with this question: Should one know their own phone number?
Quote:
One of Einstein's colleagues asked him for his telephone number one day. Einstein reached for a telephone directory and looked it up. "You don't remember your own number?" the man asked, startled.
"No," Einstein answered. "Why should I memorize something I can so easily get from a book?"

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post #225 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


That is certainly something to debate. What knowledge should be so common that we should except everyone to know? Your examples sounds beyond reasonable to me but I counter with this question: Should one know their own phone number?

 

I know that story quite well.  And it's humorous, and in Einstein's case makes some sense, too.

 

But an individual's knowledge (or lack thereof) of his or her phone number has no effect on me.  Conversely, I REALLY don't want a potential 25% of those voting alongside me on election day to think the sun rotates around the Earth, to be voting for someone who says the Earth is 6,000 years old, or who calls embryology and evolution "lies from the Pit of Hell."  People who can't name the branches of government, or have no idea against whom we fought WWII, or think that the "End Days" are coming -- these aren't people I want voting in a democratic society.

 

Believe me when I tell you that reading threads here or on Ars or wherever often remind me of how ignorant I am, when it comes to technology.  But my lack of knowledge concerning the intricacies of file systems has no effect on anyone else.

 

And with home schooling always on the rise, and with the number of people who honestly believe that if someone runs a website and posts information on it that it must be true -- all of this gets sort of creepy and unsettling.

post #226 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

How long does it take to get from London to Paris via the Chunnel? About 2.5 hours if I remember correctly, while it's about 6 hours of actual flying just to get from one coast to the other to hear people speaking the same language and with almost no cultural changes.

It's actually about 5 hours by car, but I get your point. And would like to take the opportunity to post an alternative to a car: one can do an Arch to Arc Triathlon:

The triathlon starts with an 87 mile run (140km) from London's Marble Arch to Dover on the Kent coast, then a cross-channel swim (shortest distance 21 miles/33,8km) to the French coast, and finishes with a 180 mile (289,7km) bike from Calais to the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. The clock starts at Marble Arch, London and stops at Arc de Triomphe, Paris. Only 13 athletes have ever completed the challenge, the current record being held by Enduroman's Mark Bayliss and currently standing at 73 hours and 39 minutes (and Mark wasn't wearing a wetsuit for the cross-channel swim). Rachael Cadman finished in 97h37 on 23 August 2011 becoming the first female finisher (and fourth fastest overall).

And no, I won't be trying this myself.
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post #227 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

It's actually about 5 hours by car, but I get your point. And would like to take the opportunity to post an alternative to a car: one can do an Arch to Arc Triathlon:

The triathlon starts with an 87 mile run (140km) from London's Marble Arch to Dover on the Kent coast, then a cross-channel swim (shortest distance 21 miles/33,8km) to the French coast, and finishes with a 180 mile (289,7km) bike from Calais to the Arc de Triomphe in Paris. The clock starts at Marble Arch, London and stops at Arc de Triomphe, Paris. Only 13 athletes have ever completed the challenge, the current record being held by Enduroman's Mark Bayliss and currently standing at 73 hours and 39 minutes (and Mark wasn't wearing a wetsuit for the cross-channel swim). Rachael Cadman finished in 97h37 on 23 August 2011 becoming the first female finisher (and fourth fastest overall).

And no, I won't be trying this myself.

1) That triathlon is just crazy.

2) In my defense I was thinking of a train from London to Paris, not driving, although it would be nice to take my time and drive around France for a few days.

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post #228 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

^ post

1) I fully agree; that's some serious body slam min', and not even sure if one's physician would allow.

2) My bad. France is nice by car, but I would say one should definitely drive through England as well. Beautiful landscape.
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post #229 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

1) I fully agree; that's some serious body slam min', and not even sure if one's physician would allow.

2) My bad. France is nice by car, but I would say one should definitely drive through England as well. Beautiful landscape.

I've seen the UK plenty but mainland Europe I'm still lacking. I'd like to have a few months backpacking around but that doesn't seem feasible anymore.



PS: I'd also like to see Big Ben. I've only ever seen this…



trick statement

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post #230 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

^ post

Ah, just the pic. That is sad. Opportunity / time allowing, do come over and visit. So much to see. I would like to make a suggestion that not all Americans take to heart: take your time in Europe and do not try to see it all in one week. One will miss out on many details.

Backpacking is indeed not the best way to travel anymore. A car is really the best way, just make sure you know how to drive a 'shift stick'. (though automatic transmission has become widespread now, especially rentals)
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post #231 of 242

I'd love to drive a car all through Europe!!!, i drove a bit in switzerland.
In Australia we drive on the left side of the road (Correct haha :P im kidding so don't freak out) same as Japan, UK, NZ, hopefully more places.
Mannnn i want to travel again.....Paris is nice, love the old buildings, Czech republic is on my list!, Prague looks amazing in pics.
 

post #232 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

PS: I'd also like to see Big Ben. I've only ever seen this…

 

You want to see a bell?  Why, it's just a bell?  Far more interesting things to see if you're in the area.

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post #233 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I've seen the UK plenty but mainland Europe I'm still lacking. I'd like to have a few months backpacking around but that doesn't seem feasible anymore.



PS: I'd also like to see Big Ben. I've only ever seen this…



trick statement

It looks just the same in real life.
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post #234 of 242
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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

You want to see a bell?  Why, it's just a bell?  Far more interesting things to see if you're in the area.

No-one sees the bell. They see the Clock Tower, recently renamed by MPs in a cynical effort to increase their popularity by associating more closely with the monarchy.
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post #235 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

You want to see a bell?  Why, it's just a bell?  Far more interesting things to see if you're in the area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Ah, just the pic. That is sad. Opportunity / time allowing, do come over and visit. So much to see. I would like to make a suggestion that not all Americans take to heart: take your time in Europe and do not try to see it all in one week. One will miss out on many details.

Backpacking is indeed not the best way to travel anymore. A car is really the best way, just make sure you know how to drive a 'shift stick'. (though automatic transmission has become widespread now, especially rentals)

I'd probably only take a backpack so I can do some unencumbered hiking but I'd definitely rent a car and stay in nice places. I'd probably even buy clothes at local shops in various cities just to leave them behind as I like to pack lite. I really wish I could do this again but

1)And a bridge is just a bridge, by that logic?

2) I want to see what I'm not allowed to see.

3) There is a lot of complex engineering that went into making a large bell during its day. It can be done wrong.

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post #236 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

You want to see a bell?  Why, it's just a bell?  Far more interesting things to see if you're in the area.

I take it you've never been inside then? Really beautiful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zozman View Post

I'd love to drive a car all through Europe!!!, i drove a bit in switzerland.

In Australia we drive on the left side of the road (Correct haha :P im kidding so don't freak out) same as Japan, UK, NZ, hopefully more places.

Mannnn i want to travel again.....Paris is nice, love the old buildings, Czech republic is on my list!, Prague looks amazing in pics.

Don't forget to rent something fast and take it for a spin on the transfăgărășan road in Romania:



Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

^ post

1) Point taken

2) I do that as well, seen the craziest things.

3) Clock design by Packard¿
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post #237 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Don't forget to rent something fast and take it for a spin on the transfăgărășan road in Romania:


I only know that road from Top Gear.

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post #238 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I only know that road from Top Gear

1) I love Top Gear. The humour is really, I don't know, probably easy for the producers to write but the way they present it, the laughs they have with themselves, all too funny. The pranks, and the sites they go to....

2) I love Vimeo. So many great video's on there, no lame comments like on You Tube. The best, bar none.

3) Didn't Top Gear also went to a special road in The States, similar to this one in Romania?
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post #239 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

1) I love Top Gear. The humour is really, I don't know, probably easy for the producers to write but the way they present it, the laughs they have with themselves, all too funny. The pranks, and the sites they go to....

2) I love Vimeo. So many great video's on there, no lame comments like on You Tube. The best, bar none.

3) Didn't Top Gear also went to a special road in The States, similar to this one in Romania?

Top Gear is my favourite show on either side of the pond. The UK version, not the others.

They've had several specials that took place in the US but I think this is the one you're thinking of.

The producers clearly stage a good deal of the show — to a point — but I think this interaction was completely unexpected and could have been dangerous had they stuck around…

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post #240 of 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I take it you've never been inside then? Really beautiful.
Don't forget to rent something fast and take it for a spin on the transfăgărășan road in Romania:


Wow, looks amazing!!!, kinda scary & epic, driving there would be O_o
I'll stop 1000 times to take photos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Top Gear is my favourite show on either side of the pond. The UK version, not the others.

Haha, just about to watch the new episode, I've been to the live show that they toured as well, everyone but captain slow was there (May).
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