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Judge denies Samsung new trial despite 'troubling' Apple appeal to prejudice - Page 2

post #41 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

According to Tim Cook it has nothing to do with cheap slave like labor, but that the skilled labor is over in China and not here in the US.  Apparently Americans don't have the skills to perform jobs which are traditionally considered unskilled labor.

I don't know what tradition you speak of, but iPhones, for example, are much more complex to assemble than apparently you presume. Many workers in Chinese factories are Engineering graduates. The west literally does not have enough engineers to fulfill that demand.

Even if we did, would they work for that little money? Doubtful. So you are correct, and so is Mr Cook.
post #42 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post


I don't know what tradition you speak of, but iPhones, for example, are much more complex to assemble than apparently you presume. Many workers in Chinese factories are Engineering graduates. The west literally does not have enough engineers to fulfill that demand.

Even if we did, would they work for that little money? Doubtful. So you are correct, and so is Mr Cook.

 

If you're saying that Foxconn is full of engineering graduates then that's going to need some sort of reputable citation to go with it.  I know of some student "interns" (some call it child labor) that have been found to work there, but never heard of it overflowing with engineers on the front lines.

 

Also, you don't need an engineering degree to assemble an iPhone.  Let's be realistic.

post #43 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post


Many workers in Chinese factories are Engineering graduates. The west literally does not have enough engineers to fulfill that demand.
 

 

The West does not have enough low-end engineers to fulfill the demand. These are people who have had, at max, two years of what we would call community college.

 

There are more than enough engineers in the US, IEEE had an article showing real total compensation for engineers has declined since the end of cold war spending. The west has too many engineers who will design and program a CNC mill. They don't have enough that will fix one when it breaks.

post #44 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Then, don't whine when public policy doesn't go your way.
Aggressive. I always vote and no one was whining.

Could have been phrased better. It was meant in the spirit of "people who don't vote shouldn't whine about public policy that does not go their way."

post #45 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

There may have been Intellectual Property issues, but Sony produced quality televisions that were more reliable. They sold better without undercutting the retail price of their competitors.

You may be thinking of of the period when Sony developed and patented the Trinitron™ Picture tube which gave Sony a preferred place in the TV industry. Kind of like when Apple didn't have to compete with Sumsung's copy of the iPhone.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #46 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Absolutely true. But I still feel that Election Day should be a federal holiday. Be able to take the day, go to your local voting station, and educate yourself on the issues with candidate information put up there. Have regulations on what information can be put there by each candidate (your content may not speak of other candidates in any capacity, any issue addressed by one candidate must be addressed by all, etc.).

If Election Day was a Federal Holiday everybody would be out of town.

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post #47 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post
 

If Election Day was a Federal Holiday everybody would be out of town.

 

LOL!

 

Nah, they'd be at the bar.  Which, for elections, works for me. :)

post #48 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post
 

 

Oh, laziness and apathy are a HUGE part.  And I think part of what causes the apathy is the lack of education and the rampant ignorance in this country.  In countries like Finland and S. Korea, where the education level is very high, the turnout is higher than it is in the US.

 

Also, I believe that our present system of intense gerrymandering does not help.  In the vast majority of districts across the country the result is known long before the election ever happens.  Even without gerrymandering that can be the case.  My district, for example, in SE Michigan hasn't elected a Republican in my entire lifetime I don't think.  They could resurrect Lincoln, and he lose here too.

 

Or look at Henry Waxman's district, essentially Beverly Hills.  He's retiring, so it's an open seat this year.  The odds against a Republican winning there are better than the odds against me dating Maria Sharapova.  That should tell you something. :)

 

So, I think that that contributes in part to the apathy as well: People, whether it's in say my district, or somewhere in the deep South like Mississippi, already know the result.

...

This is even more important of a factor in states like Mississippi where a Democrat would never carry the state, or California where a Republican would never carry the state.  California has 53 reps, 38 of which are Democrats.  Conversely, Mississippi has 4 representatives, 3 of which are Republicans.

 

 

California is not gerrymandered. It has a bipartisan system for determining districts (backed by Republican). California has had several Republican Governors including Ronald Reagan, Pete Wilson and Arnie Schwarzenegger. Jerry Brown instituted several Republican like cost-cutting measures.   

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post #49 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post


There are more than enough engineers in the US, IEEE had an article showing real total compensation for engineers has declined since the end of cold war spending. The west has too many engineers who will
 design and program a CNC mill. They don't have enough that will fix one when it breaks.

You are getting closer to the truth than anyone else. It's not the total number of engineers that is the problem, but the agility and infrastructure that brings them to bear...

In China, when 10,000 engineers are needed to build a super-factory, including the production equipment and production lines, the testing facilities (not to mention to build the infrastructure to support, feed and house the much larger numbers of workers), they can have those 10,000 engineers on site in a matter of days. In the USA we would still be interviewing engineers. It takes the USA months to accomplish a ramp-up process that can be done in days or weeks in China, It's this agility with even professional people that gives China an edge.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #50 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post
 
 In the USA we would still be interviewing engineers. It takes the USA months to accomplish a ramp-up process that can be done in days or weeks in China, It's this agility with even professional people that gives China an edge.

 

That's not true. If you need somebody like that, you hire them as a consultant. If you don't want to interview, you go hire a consulting firm who has the people lined up already. This is exactly the job of Foxconn, they shuffle or absorb any unused capacity.

 

The more important somebody is, the more you have to interview them. Compare a CEO versus a fast food worker. The people being hired in China are simply fast food workers.

post #51 of 65

Because they feel their votes don't count as much as millionaires - or at all. And they're correct.

post #52 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

Perhaps that will help. But your vote counts only if you actually go out and vote. Why do the less well-off Americans vote in such small numbers?

Because they don't believe their votes count as much as millionaires' money does. And they're right.

post #53 of 65
Why is Samsung so adamant even though it has been proven without a doubt that it thrives on copying other companies, not just Apple?
post #54 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithinkthere4iam View Post

I refuse to vote, why? 

Because you are satisfied to have whoever everyone else votes for...

post #55 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post
 

California is not gerrymandered. It has a bipartisan system for determining districts (backed by Republican). California has had several Republican Governors including Ronald Reagan, Pete Wilson and Arnie Schwarzenegger. Jerry Brown instituted several Republican like cost-cutting measures.   

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  What I meant to say was that in an Electoral College system, where a Republican stands no chance in California and a Democrat stands no chance in Mississippi, the force of apathy -- the feeling that "my vote won't mean anything" -- is even more powerful.

post #56 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Your opinion is worth as much as the work you put into your vote. Go away.

 

Although I always vote, he does have a point.  In many situations, there really is very little difference between candidates.

 

Now, often there are referenda or the like, and those DO make a difference.

post #57 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

Yes, it is troubling that there are no American television manufacturers.

Should be considered a matter of national security given that we all know how important propaganda (corporate media news) and pacification (sports and entertainment) are to keep the public peacefully and quietly at bay.
If there's no ample supply of TVs, the country could blow up in a civil war...

To prevent the ability of the enemy to subvert the country like this, there's but one solution: free, made-with-pride-in-the-USA TVs for all!
post #58 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post


Should be considered a matter of national security given that we all know how important propaganda

 

Imagine war breaks out in the Far East. Supply for LCDs are destroyed. Want a cell phone? Want a TV? Want a laptop? Want a new computer? Want a new car? Want to build an airplane, civilian or military? Want a printer or digital camera? Think about it.

 

In 1999, there was a major Taiwan earthquake that caused the disruption of that country's DRAM production for several months... RAM prices tripled.

post #59 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by DroidFTW View Post

According to Tim Cook it has nothing to do with cheap slave like labor, but that the skilled labor is over in China and not here in the US.  Apparently Americans don't have the skills to perform jobs which are traditionally considered unskilled labor.

Source:  http://rockcenter.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/06/15708290-apple-ceo-tim-cook-announces-plans-to-manufacture-mac-computers-in-usa?lite

I would have to agree with your view over Tim Cook's.

To say that Americans don't want to work in factories is complete bullshit. Go to Detroit or Dayton and you'll find 1000s of workers who'd jump at those jobs, if there were any jobs. The factories closed and moved to Mexico and then Asia a long time ago because of dirt cheap labor. To say that there's no skilled labor in the US is only half bullshit, but still bullshit. It's only true in the fact that it takes factories to train workers. No factories, no skilled workers. It isn't as if Asians are born with the skills.

Now, if you want to talk willingness to work, then we have a more sensitive issue. In most of asia there aren't unions or laws that protect workers nor is there a minimum wage. So they either take this shitty job or that one. It's the unions, god love em, that drove the jobs out of the US, because factory owners are immoral and unethical and only care about the bottom line. It's a disease called greed what's killing us all. Blame wall st.

But what's this got to do with Korean IP theft and racism? China and korea have been stealing IP for decades. They've compromised the American market beyond the point of repair. Samsung crossed the line five years ago. Appeals to prejudice are more than acceptable here. Are the American courts not allowed to protect American companies? Korean courts certainly protect Koreans.
Edited by robogobo - 2/9/14 at 5:23am
post #60 of 65
That statement by Apple attorneys is defending American companies, but I don't see it as being prejudicing. It's not like they are saying that foreign companies are worse than American ones.
post #61 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDax View Post

Hooray for Xenophobia and Racism!

Good job Apple :-/

Manufacturing went away from "the west" because people don't want to work in factories! In other countries the people have little choice. The west increases that pressure all the time. It's certainly a sad state of affairs, but not for Americans. TVs are no longer made in America? That's the whole point! Americans don't want to make TVs!

It has nothing at all to do with Americans not wanting to work in factories or workers not wanting to make televisions. It has everything to do with the American companies exporting manufacturing to other countries to lower their manufacturing costs in order to increase their profit margins, and failing to be competitive in features and pricing when imported televisions from non-American companies got into the American market.

This was active participation by American companies, not some kind of intellectual property theft. Luckily back then the state of "intellectual property" and patents hadn't yet gotten to the utterly insane condition it's in now.
post #62 of 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by konqerror View Post

 

Imagine war breaks out in the Far East. Supply for LCDs are destroyed. etc etc.

Companies are smarter than you think.

 

This is why they employ Chief Risk Officers.

post #63 of 65

Look at the very top of any of the official legal documents from this case.  It's points out that it's Apple Inc versus Samsung, Ltd. "a Korean company," Samsung America incorporated in the US, and some third version.  Therefore it's perfectly reasonable to make comments about Samsung Korea (the first defendant).

post #64 of 65

I thought the closing arguments were spot on and not in the least bit "troubling". Defend IP vigorously or the last thing that is made in the West will disappear, and with it any prosperity that we have. That is the very real point of all these cases. Google's idea is to give away theirs and others' intellectual property so as to make a killing on the ads. And they are loved by the young who do not want to pay for anything they don't have to.

 

Bribe people with other people's stuff that you have stolen and now give away. That is the YouTube model; it's Google's model entirely. And it plays into the waiting hands of Samsung who clone anything they can get their hands on.

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post #65 of 65
If people are going to play the race card then I wish they would at least get it right.

There was nothing racist about that statement. It was certainly nationalistic and *was* meant to influence the jury into protecting an American company against the outsider, but it wasn't racist.
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