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AirPlay configuration files in iOS 7 hint at next-gen Apple TV hardware - Page 2

post #41 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post


And integrating your apps into the 'control' system that integrates all your 'sources' into one searchable nav system, that you use either onscreen with your 6 button apple remote, or with your Apple Remote App on your iPad mini.

This control centre makes sense, but not for apps, for TV and Movie
content.

1) Create an SDK which allows content owners to publish their schedule, or available movies.
2) Read that published list into an EPG app owned by Apple.
3) When someone picks a programme from a certain app, the app is launched
( or more cleverly) the viewing window is shown within the EPG app, possibly with
external branding - all possible with the window server model.

So if I have BBC Player, 4oD, and Sky I have all that in the Apple branded EPG app.

That solves the content problem.

The advantages to the companies are - if they have their viewing window in the EPG, they
can monetise with Adds ( 4od), or people have to pay (Sky).
The BBC might be a bit more reluctant but I doubt it. Netflix wont care as long as they are paid.
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post #42 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

 

But developing that framework now put apple not into the TV market, but the Home Theater market.  Let' replace that $800 Denon receiver for... $99.

I'm all for this as long as it can decode to Lossless audio format (and iTunes starts supporting it).  Id be much happier with Lossless Audio in iTunes than 4k Video in iTunes.

 

But where exactly are you going to plug in your speakers Geoff?  If you say Bluetooth speakers- I say- Awesome!  That'd be huge.  But not for me, personally, until the quality gets better.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #43 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Despite protestations that they'd love an Apple STB I don't really think that cable operators are all that keen on letting Apple control the gateway the way Apple would insist on controlling the gateway to the viewers.  They didn't make cable card an immense pain in the ass for so many years because they want to let other folks get between them and their customers.

If the Cable STB is a HDMI CEC compliant device where you can set the channel and it's not dog slow so folks can actually surf as fast as with the native cable remote then perhaps it would work with a good EPG and UI.
With the new HDMI 2.0 spec, Apple nor anyone else will need to ask. They will just take over the device and it's relavent functions...period.

From HDMI.org
Quote:
HDMI 2.0, which is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI specifications, significantly increases bandwidth up to 18Gbps and adds key enhancements to support continuing market requirements for enhancing the consumer video and audio experience. New functionality includes:

4K@50/60, (2160p), which is 4 times the clarity of 1080p/60 video resolution
Up to 32 audio channels for a multi-dimensional immersive audio experience
Up to 1536kHz audio sample frequency for the highest audio fidelity
Simultaneous delivery of dual video streams to multiple users on the same screen
Simultaneous delivery of multi-stream audio to multiple users (up to 4)
Support for the wide angle theatrical 21:9 video aspect ratio
Dynamic synchronization of video and audio streams
CEC extensions provides expanded command and control of consumer electronics devices through a single control point

Edit: had HDMI 1.4 above; changed to 2.0.
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post #44 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


With the new HDMI 2.0 spec, Apple nor anyone else will need to ask. They will just take over the device and it's relavent functions...period.

From HDMI.org


Edit: had HDMI 1.4 above; changed to 2.0.

 

And cable STBs are forced to fully implement HDMI 2.0 why?  They could do just do HDMI 1.4 for a long time since I doubt they're really going to do 4K anytime soon.  4K roll out will likely be kinda like HD roll out.  A channel or two and special STBs for the few folks willing to pay extra for the service.  Even with DOCSIS 3.0 it's going to stress the plant.  Even then 1.4 supports 4K at 24/30 fps.  Just not at higher frame rates.

post #45 of 51
HDMI 2.0 then gives Apple little or nothing. All this excitement about a cable standard.
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post #46 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

And cable STBs are forced to fully implement HDMI 2.0 why? They could do just do HDMI 1.4 for a long time since I doubt they're really going to do 4K anytime soon. 4K roll out will likely be kinda like HD roll out. A channel or two and special STBs for the few folks willing to pay extra for the service. Even with DOCSIS 3.0 it's going to stress the plant. Even then 1.4 supports 4K at 24/30 fps. Just not at higher frame rates.
Sorry. I forgot that only the cable companies can release boxes for their services in NA. We use to a wide extent CI Cards here in Europe, with dozens of providers for compatible receiver boxes and the majority of TV manufacturers building slots into many of their models.

So what your saying is that you believe the cable companies will never ever upgrade their boxes if Apple or anyone else is able to pull control functions from the box and reskin them in a new unified GUI? That's unfortunate. Because it spells their certain death.

Also, about TV manufacturers: they have no other new tech on the horizon more mouthwatering to get people to buy a new TV than 4k. 3D has utterly failed, but until you have witnessed 4k, believe me, youl'll want it and consumers will demand it. Especially since new cameras and tools are starting to come to market that let everyday consumers shoot it. Witness the under 2000.- debut of the new Panasonic G4.

4k is definately coming and if I'm not mistaken, Apple and other partners in the MPEG-LA consortium are working hard on new optimized codecs for streaming. It's when... not if... 4k will be the new standard. It will be sort of like Retina: without it, no sale. And then, where do you go from there.
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post #47 of 51
Just wanna add: I can't believe I'm having these same discussions every few years when people declare advancements in tech dead, and that nobody needs them, no one will buy them, or worse yet, a handful of companies will delay and/or kill the chance of them gaining acceptance.

From flat screens, to Full-HD, smart phones, tablets, cloud services... devices and services that people are becoming familiar with and can't imagine the world without them by the millions daily.

Companies, no matter how big they are and how much control they have, can have their walls pulled down: Example A = Microsoft.
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post #48 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


Sorry. I forgot that only the cable companies can release boxes for their services in NA. We use to a wide extent CI Cards here in Europe, with dozens of providers for compatible receiver boxes and the majority of TV manufacturers building slots into many of their models.

So what your saying is that you believe the cable companies will never ever upgrade their boxes if Apple or anyone else is able to pull control functions from the box and reskin them in a new unified GUI? That's unfortunate. Because it spells their certain death.

 

What I am saying is the cable companies will make it as annoying as possible for 3rd party hardware since they get away with charging $5-$10 a STB rental a month.  Ask TiVO how great it is to work with these guys.

 

Quote:
Also, about TV manufacturers: they have no other new tech on the horizon more mouthwatering to get people to buy a new TV than 4k. 3D has utterly failed, but until you have witnessed 4k, believe me, youl'll want it and consumers will demand it. Especially since new cameras and tools are starting to come to market that let everyday consumers shoot it. Witness the under 2000.- debut of the new Panasonic G4.

4k is definately coming and if I'm not mistaken, Apple and other partners in the MPEG-LA consortium are working hard on new optimized codecs for streaming. It's when... not if... 4k will be the new standard. It will be sort of like Retina: without it, no sale. And then, where do you go from there.

 

4K is great but most folks already sit too far away from their 1080p sets to make it worth that much.  Videophiles will care.  Consumers will demand it?  

 

Maybe.

 

"On a 50-inch 1080p HD display, most consumers can begin to distinguish individual pixels only when standing within six feet of the screen. Therefore if your viewing distance is 10 feet or greater, an Ultra HD 50-inch display will likely have little perceived benefit in terms of image clarity and sharpness – which can be attributed directly to the increase in pixel count."

 

http://www.thx.com/test-bench-blog/when-does-4k-matter/

 

I sit closer than average.  In fact I'll be sitting well inside that 6 foot range.  Most folks?  Around 8-9 feet.

post #49 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Just wanna add: I can't believe I'm having these same discussions every few years when people declare advancements in tech dead, and that nobody needs them, no one will buy them, or worse yet, a handful of companies will delay and/or kill the chance of them gaining acceptance.

From flat screens, to Full-HD, smart phones, tablets, cloud services... devices and services that people are becoming familiar with and can't imagine the world without them by the millions daily.

Companies, no matter how big they are and how much control they have, can have their walls pulled down: Example A = Microsoft.

 

SACD, 3-D TV, 9.1 audio, Laserdisks, HD-DVD...it's not that folks are luddites.  It's more been there, bought that, didn't pan out in the mainstream market.

 

Is 4K going to be the next HDTV?  Maybe.  On the other hand 1080p HDTVs are decent enough and BluRay adoption still slowly increasing.  What kind of penetration will Ultra-HD have in the near future?  It's not like folks are going to be jumping up and down to dump their relatively recent HDTV purchases.

 

And if I remember right the median size is still around 48".

 

On the other hand 4K sets can actually deliver 2K passive 3-D.  Maybe that will help both actually gain traction.

 

But in 2014?  No, 4K won't be a major factor.  Probably not in 2015 either.  Anyone that tells you they can accurately predict what the mainstream market will look like past 2 years is trying to sell you something.  Usually it's an overly expensive industry report that has little resemblance to reality when the future becomes the present.

post #50 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

What I am saying is the cable companies will make it as annoying as possible for 3rd party hardware since they get away with charging $5-$10 a STB rental a month.  Ask TiVO how great it is to work with these guys.


4K is great but most folks already sit too far away from their 1080p sets to make it worth that much.  Videophiles will care.  Consumers will demand it?  

Maybe.

"On a 50-inch 1080p HD display, most consumers can begin to distinguish individual pixels only when standing within six feet of the screen. Therefore if your viewing distance is 10 feet or greater, an Ultra HD 50-inch display will likely have little perceived benefit in terms of image clarity and sharpness – which can be attributed directly to the increase in pixel count."




http://www.thx.com/test-bench-blog/when-does-4k-matter/

I sit closer than average.  In fact I'll be sitting well inside that 6 foot range.  Most folks?  Around 8-9 feet.

"Most Folks"... as in North America.

Across Europe and large metropolises like New York, Tokyo, Hong Kong and countless other cities across the globe, people are downsizing their living quarters due to lack of space and high living costs. A 36-42" at 2 meters is the average here in Germany. 4K will be glorious at that size and distance. Add a 50-100mb internet pipe (also mostly available within most cities) to an AppleTV (1) and you're golden.

The sprawling 3000sq-ft estates in the 'burbs of Des Moines, OK City, or even Sacramento are continuing to have problems getting the necessary bandwidth to make streaming 4k... or even HD... work for them. I'm betting on optimized codecs to bring bandwidth requirements to managable size.

So I agree: with living rooms larger than most city-dweller's entire flats and 50" screens looking downright "puny" at 3,4 or even 5 meter viewing distance... 4k doesn't look interesting... UNTIL you want to replace that relative postcard-sized screen to do the walls expanse justice. Think 80 - 120"...(2) 1smoking.gif

(1) If Apple ever get's down to building out their channels and services available to the AppleTV outside of NA... OR... lets us control via AppleTV, our Kabel, Sky, or HD subscription from the TV with the inserted cable card (!)

(2) There's always going to be a compromise of one kind or another. More space for less money vs. costing more money to decorate, accessorize, and service. Front lawns larger than many small towns and entire zip codes comes to mind.

*** Edited for better understanding and readablity... yeah right... TL;DR again 1hmm.gif
Edited by ThePixelDoc - 2/13/14 at 2:39am
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post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

SACD, 3-D TV, 9.1 audio, Laserdisks, HD-DVD...it's not that folks are luddites.  It's more been there, bought that, didn't pan out in the mainstream market.

Is 4K going to be the next HDTV?  Maybe.  On the other hand 1080p HDTVs are decent enough and BluRay adoption still slowly increasing.  What kind of penetration will Ultra-HD have in the near future?  It's not like folks are going to be jumping up and down to dump their relatively recent HDTV purchases.

And if I remember right the median size is still around 48".

On the other hand 4K sets can actually deliver 2K passive 3-D.  Maybe that will help both actually gain traction.

But in 2014?  No, 4K won't be a major factor.  Probably not in 2015 either.  Anyone that tells you they can accurately predict what the mainstream market will look like past 2 years is trying to sell you something.  Usually it's an overly expensive industry report that has little resemblance to reality when the future becomes the present.

Well I'm certainly not trying to sell you anything physical that you can touch 1smoking.gif

However, I am trying to sell you on "the idea and philosophy" that technological advances stop for no one. Considering you're an Apple fan on this forum, I tend to take it for granted that you and others have bought into that very same Apple philosophy long ago. They've been... and continue to be... the undeniable leaders and driving force in getting people to adopt new technology... even if the "majority" doesn't think we need it yet, if ever.

The 64-bit A7 debate for example.

Or many years ago: "a what?... a mouse? USB? CD Super-Drive?... never gonna happen!". NOW days, you have the "majority", including entire companies (MS), that can't seem to bring themselves to "drop" old tech, to work with and help optimize the new tech like, "touch? Wireless transfer? Digital downloads/cloud streaming?".

You're certainly correct that adoption of 4K in the home will take awhile, say 5 years based on former acceptance of new tech across the board (touch phones anyone?). But do you seriously think that Apple will stop and wait for that day down the road? I don't. Look at what they're demo'ing the nMP with.

Also, 4k brings some very interesting scenarios for everyday users and content creators until the "UHD full resolution" across devices realized.

Simple example is zoom and crop to HD without resolution loss i.e. fixed wide-angle high speed optics, and then "pulling" and "panning" to the areas of interest, then saving output to 1080p HD. Now how cool is that?! Next gen A8 could very possibly do this as smoothly and as simple as 1080p HD today. Then think what endless possibilities there are after sucking that 4K footage into iMovie/FCPX over Thunderbolt to an MBP or iMac will afford you. No 4K screen... no problem. Push, pull, pan and zoom in a 1080p "frame".

I look at 4K the same way that DSLR and camera sensors have evolved over time. A 36mb Nikon d800 or Sony a7r image is not "necessary" for web-shots and/or printing up to Letter/A4. HOWEVER, it does afford you the ability to zoom and crop in post-production, a full length portrait to a cropped face, or a product shot to just the label... and still be able to print up to Letter/A4 and publish to the web in full high-res quality for the intended medium or device.

Some notes at engadget regarding the new Panasonic 4K GH mirrorless camera for under $2k:
http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/07/panasonics-4k-mirrorless-gh-camera/

@nht - Here's a Panosonic 4K displays quote... also from engadget at CES... notice the sizes and release date:
Quote:
When it comes to picture quality, the line of sets shown off today boasts a 4K LED display (which is said to look just as good as the company's old plasma tech) and will come in 58 to 65 inches when it arrives this year, with an 85-inch -- the firm's first LED TV of that size -- joining it later in 2014.
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