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IDC critical of Apple for not selling profitless, sub $200 iPhones in market share report - Page 2

post #41 of 73
Didn't Cook recently say that Apple isn't interested in making trash?
post #42 of 73

Wasn't this guy around when $200 Windows netbooks were going to be the hottest platform on the planet and Apple was said to be doomed because they didn't sell one.  What a doofus.

post #43 of 73
yea apple make 100 dollar phones loose $ on them and gain market wile you loose $
post #44 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post
 

I don't think selling at cost would be a good idea for Apple.  But I wish they would consider mid-range or even low cost with 25%-35% margins. Apple could easily sell a mid-range $350-$400 phone. For example, when the iPhone 6 gets out, why not sell the 5c in the $350 - $400 range instead of the usual $450 price point for a 2 years old phone?

Totally agree.    I would like Apple to have at least a 50% market share with using the 5c as an inexpensive entry point.  

 

Google doesn't really need or care what the profit is for their manufacturers as long as the phones are using google services that translate into advertising revenue.

 

I remember that at one time the Macintosh had the overwhelming majority of the PC GUI operating system market, but then the PCs came along with Windows 95 and blew them out of the water; to where Apple's market share was so low they had to be saved by Bill Gates's bailout.    Hopefully history won't repeat itself. 

post #45 of 73

Uh, folks, while I appreciate your indignation at AI's article on the IDC report, I decided to read the actual IDC report (or more accurately Press Release) for myself. Seems to me the IDC report that the AI article links to is either a) the wrong IDC report, or b) doesn't say what AI says it does. For example, the IDC report's title is:

 

"Android and iOS Continue to Dominate the Worldwide Smartphone Market with Android Shipments Just Shy of 800 Million in 2013, According to IDC" 

http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?containerId=prUS24676414

 

Nothing to complain about there, eh? In the text the only "analysis" mentioning Apple I could find was this which was quoted in part by AI:

 

"Clearly, there was strong end-user demand for both Android and iOS products during the quarter and the year," says Ramon Llamas, Research Manager with IDC's Mobile Phone team. "What stands out are the different routes Android and Apple took to meet this demand. Android relied on its long list of OEM partners, a broad and deep collection of devices, and price points that appealed to nearly every market segment. Apple's iOS, on the other hand, relied on nearly the opposite approach: a limited selection of Apple-only devices, whose prices trended higher than most. Despite these differences, both platforms found a warm reception to their respective user experiences and selection of mobile applications."

*(emphasis mine)

 

I know that I'm not the sharpest tool in the proverbial shed, so if anyone can explain to me exactly what in the actual IDC report is so offensive, I'd be mighty appreciative.

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post #46 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post

I remember that at one time the Macintosh had the overwhelming majority of the PC GUI operating system market, but then the PCs came along with Windows 95 and blew them out of the water; to where Apple's market share was so low they had to be saved by Bill Gates's bailout.    Hopefully history won't repeat itself. 

Back then: Apple had low desktop market share... and no money.

Today: Apple has low smartphone market share... and plenty of money.

So which is actually a problem... the market share or the money?
post #47 of 73
Not sure it matters one bit what IDC writes: it doesn't factor into Apple's product strategy. But I suppose IDC earns money by publicizing these "studies." That's what they're selling.

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post #48 of 73
I find IDC's market share numbers informative. However, IDC should stick with that and go no further. Receipt of their check from Google and Samsung is clearly visible in their "analysis" of what those numbers actually mean.

With profits as made by Motorola, RIMM, HTC, Huawei, Xiaomi, etc, none of these firms will be around this time next year. That means that Samsung, filling the volume void, will no longer be profitable. How long will that last before bottom tier handset ASPs rise about $100 - $150?
post #49 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post


I remember that at one time the Macintosh had the overwhelming majority of the PC GUI operating system market, but then the PCs came along with Windows 95 and blew them out of the water; to where Apple's market share was so low they had to be saved by Bill Gates's bailout.    Hopefully history won't repeat itself. 

Um, PC GUI market? Are we now making up markets? Bill Gates didn't bail out Apple. They settled various patent "disagreements".
post #50 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by 512ke View Post

My earlier sarcastic post didn't show up.  I imagined what would happen if BMW tried to market a car to compete with the Honda Fit, called the 4 cylinder AM/FM radio 10-cupholder BMW Fit©.

At the same time, how low IS Apple's phone market share going to go?  

Apple doesn't want to have only 7% of the market or something, right?

Apple has a hard challenge.  They're a luxury brand.  Aspirational.  High end.  Cutting edge.  And yet the competition is growing way faster.

Maybe Apple should split its brand. Like Toyota and Lexus.  Honda and Acura in the US.  

As a loyal shareholder, I wish that Android would plateau so the story is not always about Apple's ceaseless loss of marketshare.

It's called the Mini Cooper
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post #51 of 73
Arm chair analyst always come up with this kind of baseless analysis. Apple is obviously making wise and informed decisions, that is why they are the most valuable company.
post #52 of 73
By implication, IF, as IDC implies, Apple could sell more handsets by selling lower priced models, those sales have to come from...... Samsung and others, making the profit picture even bleaker for others....and Samsung. I am beginning to like... /snort.
post #53 of 73
...but, but, but making losses paves the way for infinite growth prospects, the "potential" to grow market share and the adulation of Wall St.

Hence share value goes up, it's so simple in it's stupidity that any fool can see it.

A fool and their money are soon parted and that my friends is what keeps Wall Street paved with gold.
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post #54 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by muadibe View Post

Didn't Cook recently say that Apple isn't interested in making trash?
just trash cans
post #55 of 73
Originally Posted by Just_Me View Post
just trash cans

 

Making trash?

Trash cans?

iCan? 

 

ICAHN!

 

IT’S A CONSPIRACY, MAN.

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There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

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post #56 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by K2kW View Post
I remember that at one time the Macintosh had the overwhelming majority of the PC GUI operating system market, but then the PCs came along with Windows 95 and blew them out of the water; to where Apple's market share was so low they had to be saved by Bill Gates's bailout.    Hopefully history won't repeat itself. 

 

This persistent meme is incorrect that the $150 million purchase of non-voting Apple stock by Bill Gates's Microsoft bailed out Apple.

At the time (Aug 97) Apple still had $1230 million in cash and equivalents:

 

Microsoft and Apple Affirm Commitment To Build Next Generation Software for Macintosh

Apple Inc. Form 10-K Annual Report, Filed Dec 5, 1997

post #57 of 73

Apple need advice because they only have 159 thousand million dollars in the bank, which is barely enough to buy a small country these days.

post #58 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogJack View Post
 

Apple need advice because they only have 159 thousand million dollars in the bank, which is barely enough to buy a small country these days.

 

It's more than the USA has.

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post #59 of 73
More of the same irrelevant and fallacious garbage from AI... IDC is speaking about MARKET SHARE, yet the author of this drivel can't keep himself to speak of something else, margins, while shooting the messenger like if they were plotting on bath-mouthing Apple, which is borderline stupid or could be the symptoms of cognitive troubles, but there it is something else, it is called a deflection and a diversion, which is the recipe for a propagandist and certainly not any journalist or honorable blogger...

Zz

People should really read the IDC press release and compare it to this whiny and irrelevant drivel...
post #60 of 73

Everybody knows that you always can make up the different from having to sell each item at a loss by having huge volume.

post #61 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by whatisgoingon View Post

Everybody knows that you always can make up the different from having to sell each item at a loss by having huge volume.

Nice joke 1smile.gif

But on a serious note... most companies don't have huge volume either.

Samsung is in 1st place with 82 million smartphones sold last quarter... Apple is 2nd place with 51 million.

But 3rd place drops way down to only 16.4 million units for Huawei... then 13.9 million for Lenovo and 13.2 million for LG.

That's just the top 5.

What about the rest of the industry? How many companies in the "other" category had a good, profitable quarter? Probably not many.

And that "other" category represents 107 million smartphones... or 40% of the smartphone market. That's a lot of phones being sold at a loss.

That can't be healthy.
post #62 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

More of the same irrelevant and fallacious garbage from AI... IDC is speaking about MARKET SHARE, yet the author of this drivel can't keep himself to speak of something else, margins, while shooting the messenger like if they were plotting on bath-mouthing Apple, which is borderline stupid or could be the symptoms of cognitive troubles, but there it is something else, it is called a deflection and a diversion, which is the recipe for a propagandist and certainly not any journalist or honorable blogger...

Zz

People should really read the IDC press release and compare it to this whiny and irrelevant drivel...

Just curious: is "bath-mouthing" similar to washing your mouth out with soap; or the new politcally correct description of torture by waterboarding?

Regardless, me thinks you should go "bath-mouth" yourself! 1smoking.gif
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post #63 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

…like if they were plotting on bath-mouthing Apple...
 

 

Damn that automobile correction :D 

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post #64 of 73
It sounds slightly clueless by the IDC.
If Apple competed at the low end then competition authorities would show far more interest.

Pricing it high scoops up the cash while staying low on radar. A profit win win to me.
post #65 of 73
Yeah, and Mercedes really ought to manufacture a cheap, rattly econobox car to grab more market share.
Were I Apple, I'd take a different approach. I'd go out of my way encourage a healthy used iPhone market for those who can't currently afford a new iPhone with its pricey contract. Then when they graduate (for instance), those college students who were using a second-hand $150 iPhone 4 will have so many iOS apps, they won't give a moment's thought to buying an Android phone. And a healthy used market would encourage those what want and can afford the latest and greatest to upgrade often.
post #66 of 73

Does anyone know what IDC stands for? I am guessing it is an abbreviation for Idiot Data Collectors.

post #67 of 73

Financial analysts need to be gagged somehow. WTF is wrong with people?

post #68 of 73
Unfortunately quite a few people listen to these dumbasses, which is why the stock goes down $50 on the 4th highest quarterly profit for any company in the history of man. Pisses me off that it will take a month to recover because AAPL didn't make their money the way "experts" thought they should or that they didn't sell as many iphones as "experts" said they would. I would think you would follow AAPLs guidance, they seem to know their business (and met their guidance)
post #69 of 73

No profit smart phones are for people who can't afford the premium.  But that's not what Apple is after.  

However, if the gap between the no profit phones and iphone becomes smaller and smaller, Apple may start to loose market share when the smart phone market is saturated.

post #70 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I have a question about this paragraph.

IDC failed to note that software development for Android failed to keep pace with iOS, both among consumers and in the enterprise, where Apple's iOS now accounts for 73 percent of corporate mobile deployments.

He says "both among consumers and the enterprise" but then gives the enterprise figures only. And the the wrong figures ( corporate mobile deployments not "software development").

I agree that Apple shouldn't go sub $200 but - at the risk of inflaming one off his sock puppets - I never like the way this guy manipulates figures and beats you over the head with far too much rhetoric.

He was rightfully pointing out hardware deployment in the enterprise to compliment the iOS statement. The fact that the iPhone outsells every other model of smartphone speaks for itself.
post #71 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sensi View Post

More of the same irrelevant and fallacious garbage from AI... IDC is speaking about MARKET SHARE, yet the author of this drivel can't keep himself to speak of something else, margins, while shooting the messenger like if they were plotting on bath-mouthing Apple, which is borderline stupid or could be the symptoms of cognitive troubles, but there it is something else, it is called a deflection and a diversion, which is the recipe for a propagandist and certainly not any journalist or honorable blogger...

Zz

People should really read the IDC press release and compare it to this whiny and irrelevant drivel...


What arrogant nonsense! The whole point is you CAN NOT do an accurate analysis of the market just by looking at market share - it is just plain stupidity. That IDC's report is worthless without taking into consideration profitability and gross margins. They are facilitating and perpetuating a market share trap by producing such a half-ass report.
post #72 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

He was rightfully pointing out hardware deployment in the enterprise to compliment the iOS statement. The fact that the iPhone outsells every other model of smartphone speaks for itself. As to DED's writing style, I'm not sure anyone really cares what you think.

He engaged in a non-sequitur and I called him on it. The fact that the iPhone outsells other models tells us nothing with regard to your argument or his.
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post #73 of 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by v5v View Post

If the people in my communications circle could get something like a somewhat less robust and full-featured 5c for $300, they might buy that instead of a Samsung Note. That would expand the group of people with whom I can enjoy ecosystem-specific features like FaceTime, Messages and Airdrop, which in turn would make me more likely to drop $900 for an iPhone.

Unfortunately it's this line of thinking that doesn't even work for Android. If you buy a samsung phone, you're only buying into the Samsung device ecosystem, not Android. Anyone else running Android won't be able offer anything more compelling to switch you from it.

Everyone I know, has an iPhone. Everyone I see outside... iPhone. Once in a while I'll see someone with an oversized phablet, but pretty much everyone, even those non-affluent people have an iPhone. This is probably true in Japan, Canada and the US where the majority of the iOS software is developed. Japanese software developers complain pretty loudly, prior to the iPhone that American and European phones weren't worth developing for.

The rest of the world (eg Europe, India, Russia, Korea) will likely have Samsung devices because their carrier relationships don't subsidize the devices, so people are going to pick the cheapest phone, and not use most of the features on it. To them it's just a feature phone, that maybe lets them do banking and check email. Check out any Korean drama (you can find them to stream on the internet) you will see nothing but Samsung and LG, everywhere. Smartphones, tablets, televisions, fridges, stoves, microwaves, banking, etc. Yet the average person does not own a single high-end device, because Samsung and LG do not make any.

So yeah, market share counts for more, when you have a captive market. Apple is making most of the money because developers want to develop for it. Android is an afterthought ,and difficult platform.
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