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Apple, Inc. sold more computers than all of Microsoft's Windows PC partners in December quarter - Page 4

post #121 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Ah ok, Word Processing then. No, I don't do that on my iPhone. I do use Numbers, work on them on the iPhone, iPad and my desktop. And yes, I have created spreadsheets solely on my iPhone and mailed them to people. Start to finish; it's a neat app. Useful.

If you look at what the Notes app can do it's definitely a word processor.

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post #122 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

If you look at what the Notes app can do it's definitely a word processor.

That's a valid point. It supports many multimedia content, like movies, photos, charts...the lot. Yes, one can tag the Notes app as a Word Processor, but I don't think mistercow will acknowledge this.
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post #123 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

That's a valid point. It supports many multimedia content, like movies, photos, charts...the lot. Yes, one can tag the Notes app as a Word Processor, but I don't think mistercow will acknowledge this.

I had thought it supports images and videos but I just tested it and couldn't get a screenshot to post in it but I feel certain that I've done that in the past.

I was able to copy a spreadsheet over and it does allow for a great number of font options to be displayed as noted by my quick-and-dirty example (below).




Clearly it's highly limited as it's designed to be for taking notes which means Apple could have stopped at just making it a plaintext editor/viewer, but they didn't.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #124 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

^ post

I could've sworn it supported video as well, just tried it and it merely displays the movie icon and syncs over from Mac to Mac. On iOS it displays an unusable paperclip. Photos do work. And way more fonts than the initial 5 on iPhone OS X
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post #125 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I could've sworn it supported video as well, just tried it and it merely displays the movie icon and syncs over from Mac to Mac. On iOS it displays an unusable paperclip. Photos do work. And way more fonts than the initial 5 on iPhone OS X

I couldn't get a screenshot to show up, just the paperclip. I wonder if this is a change they enacted with iOS 7.

Regardless, it's still a rich-text editor.

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post #126 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SixnaHalfFeet View Post

From:



https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/iphone/conceptual/iphoneosprogrammingguide/TheiOSEnvironment/TheiOSEnvironment.html

"Specialized System Behaviors



The iOS system is based on the same technologies used by Mac OS X, namely the Mach kernel and BSD interfaces. Thus, iOS apps run in a UNIX-based system and have full support for threads, sockets, and many of the other technologies typically available at that level. However, there are places where the behavior of iOS differs from that of Mac OS X."



 

There is a difference between UNIX like and UNIX
post #127 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by delreyjones View Post

OK.  But would you argue with the assertion that IOS is kind of on par with Windows, and 80's calculators are kind of not on par with Windows?

I'm not really sure what you are getting at, but I wouldn't class Windows (as in the PC operating system) in the same category as iOS, one is a smartphone/tablet OS, and the other is a PC/Laptop OS
post #128 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) I have no idea what you meant by the phrase "the iPhone ran UNIX." It's not an app or a service that runs on the OS, it's a specification in which an OS can be certified.

I was referring to a claim made on the first page.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/162047/apple-inc-sold-more-computers-than-all-of-microsofts-windows-pc-partners-in-december-quarter#post_2472044
post #129 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluck View Post
 

Yeah, if you are going to go that route, shouldn't all MS devices be included? What about servers and Windows embedded products? Of course, if that was done, the numbers would be back in MS's favor and since this is nothing more than pointless link bait, that wouldn't work. Absolute garbage.

 

-kpluck

 

Yes.  And if anyone bothered to read the original blog post folks would notice that Windows + WinPhones > OSX + iOS by a smidgen.

 

That's for the holiday qtr to boot where Apple dominates.

 

The point is that mobile is the future.  Point made even if he cheated a bit.  There should be little doubt in anyone's mind that tablets will become the dominant form of personal computing.

 

I agree with Saarek that I wouldn't count phones.  It's not a viable primary computing replacement given that even when the apps exist it's very hard to content creation on such a small screen.  The only ones that I would count are the Motorolla Atrix line that could dock into a laptop and maybe the phablets. Maybe.

 

Certainly the CPU and OS are sufficient on an iPhone to replace a computer but the human computer interface isn't.  The iPad is because I can dock it to Apple's keyboard dock or a variety of keyboard cases and replace my computer.  Maybe even without the keyboard although that's a harder case to make since you lose a lot of the available screen resolution to the onscreen keyboard.  Even the mini can do this although the screen is a little small at keyboard range.  Adding a mouse or trackpad would be nice too but viable without it.

 

My iPhone 5 not so much.  The screen is too small.  If you want to argue that you could hook it up to a HDTV using the HDMI connection kit I'm simply going to laugh at you.  If you think using phone apps blown on a tablet is stupid this is much worse.

post #130 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

Internet data is collected through ads.  Just means iOS users visit web pages more.  Not sure how that equates to using an iOS as "real computers. " Most people consider real computer use to be at least word processing and not just browsing the internet and shopping.
 

Netbooks were just used for internet browsing. So why were they computers and an iPhone isn't?

 If anything, the iPhone and iPad gets used more than a netbook because the iPhone has millions of programs that are used for more than just browsing the internet.   The naysayers are defining a real computer as "a device that is used to create word documents."   That's an asinine definition. I use my iPhone and iPad to do just about everything except create word documents, which is why the naysayers pick that as the definition. All of you naysayers can keep sticking your head in the sand.  


Edited by ash471 - 2/15/14 at 11:01am
post #131 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post
 

 

Yes.  And if anyone bothered to read the original blog post folks would notice that Windows + WinPhones > OSX + iOS by a smidgen.

 

That's for the holiday qtr to boot where Apple dominates.

 

The point is that mobile is the future.  Point made even if he cheated a bit.  There should be little doubt in anyone's mind that tablets will become the dominant form of personal computing.

 

I agree with Saarek that I wouldn't count phones.  It's not a viable primary computing replacement given that even when the apps exist it's very hard to content creation on such a small screen.  The only ones that I would count are the Motorolla Atrix line that could dock into a laptop and maybe the phablets. Maybe.

 

Certainly the CPU and OS are sufficient on an iPhone to replace a computer but the human computer interface isn't.  The iPad is because I can dock it to Apple's keyboard dock or a variety of keyboard cases and replace my computer.  Maybe even without the keyboard although that's a harder case to make since you lose a lot of the available screen resolution to the onscreen keyboard.  Even the mini can do this although the screen is a little small at keyboard range.  Adding a mouse or trackpad would be nice too but viable without it.

 

My iPhone 5 not so much.  The screen is too small.  If you want to argue that you could hook it up to a HDTV using the HDMI connection kit I'm simply going to laugh at you.  If you think using phone apps blown on a tablet is stupid this is much worse.

What makes everyone think that creating Word documents is the definition of a personal computer.  The iPhone can create all kinds of content.  Calendar entries, pictures, videos, emails, texts, tweets, social network entries, video game play, etc.  Why does all this content have to take a back seat to Word and Excel spreadsheets?  I think the content created on an iPhone or iPad creates more value to its user in terms of enjoyment than Word and Excel spreadsheets. Your definition of a personal computer is fucked up.

post #132 of 160
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
Clearly it's highly limited as it's designed to be for taking notes which means Apple could have stopped at just making it a plaintext editor/viewer, but they didn't.

 

I wonder if they won’t replace Notes with an iOS version of TextEdit in the near future (given that TextEdit has direct iCloud support but no ability to:

 

1. see those documents on iCloud.com

2. see those documents on an iDevice.

 

Replacing Notes with TextEdit would give a basic text… wait, why? Pages is free now. Apple doesn’t need to do that. Never mind. I was going to say “have an option to take yellow notes, just as before” but they don’t need it at all.

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post #133 of 160

I also think Apps are themselves content.  In other words, the content that is created on the iOS platform is the content that gets uploaded to the App Store or the Cloud.  In that regard, there is vastly more content being created on the iOS platform than Microsoft.  I have about 5 apps I use on my Mac and dozens of apps I use on my iPhone and iPad. 

What authority figure deemed content creation by the user more superior than content creation by software developers?

post #134 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I wonder if they won’t replace Notes with an iOS version of TextEdit in the near future (given that TextEdit has direct iCloud support but no ability to:

1. see those documents on iCloud.com
2. see those documents on an iDevice.

Replacing Notes with TextEdit would give a basic text… wait, why? Pages is free now. Apple doesn’t need to do that. Never mind. I was going to say “have an option to take yellow notes, just as before” but they don’t need it at all.

Yeah, I don't see that happening. As useful as TextEdit I'd think it's considered archaic from Apple's PoV, but I expect it to stay on the Mac for foreseeable future.

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post #135 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

I wonder if they won’t replace Notes with an iOS version of TextEdit in the near future (given that TextEdit has direct iCloud support but no ability to:

 

1. see those documents on iCloud.com

2. see those documents on an iDevice.

 

Replacing Notes with TextEdit would give a basic text… wait, why? Pages is free now. Apple doesn’t need to do that. Never mind. I was going to say “have an option to take yellow notes, just as before” but they don’t need it at all.

I think Apple would like Pages to become the universal word processing software.  Apple didn't put much effort into Pages between 2009 and 2013 because it wasn't clear how Pages would ever supplant MS Word since Apple has a closed platform. Apple couldn't achieve universal compatibility unless it took 100% of the PC market, which clearly is NEVER going to happen.  However, they have cracked the nut so to speak by making Pages 100% compatible between Mac, iOS, and iCloud.  Everyone can have Pages with iCloud and Apple doesn't have to sacrifice the benefits of a closed platform.   If I were MS, I would be very worried about Pages in the cloud.  All Apple needs to do is provide business features like line numbering, paragraph numbering, document comparison, format painting, etc. and enterprise will have no problem moving over to iOS. The iPad is Apple's future and just because it isn't growing as fast as iPhone doesn't mean it is less important. It's actually more important as a platform technology. 

post #136 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

I think Apple would like Pages to become the universal word processing software.  Apple didn't put much effort into Pages between 2009 and 2013 because it wasn't clear how Pages would ever supplant MS Word since Apple has a closed platform. Apple couldn't achieve universal compatibility unless it took 100% of the PC market, which clearly is NEVER going to happen.  However, they have cracked the nut so to speak by making Pages 100% compatible between Mac, iOS, and iCloud.  Everyone can have Pages with iCloud and Apple doesn't have to sacrifice the benefits of a closed platform.   If I were MS, I would be very worried about Pages in the cloud.  All Apple needs to do is provide business features like line numbering, paragraph numbering, document comparison, format painting, etc. and enterprise will have no problem moving over to iOS. The iPad is Apple's future and just because it isn't growing as fast as iPhone doesn't mean it is less important. It's actually more important as a platform technology. 

I do take issue with how Apple updates this productivity suite. I have no problem with iWork — do they even call it that anymore? — not being as robust as MS Office and I really like the current move to keep the feature set between platforms (Mac, iCloud, iOS) the same, but I don't like that they have so many dry spells and seemingly play chutes-and-ladders where they take these huge steps backwards in functionality. I would much rather they have a dedicated iWork team that would release only a few, incremental, and platform-balanced feature updates each and every year. Hopefully the move to make this free with the perhaps of a Mac of iOS-based iDevice is a sign of good things to come.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #137 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I couldn't get a screenshot to show up, just the paperclip. I wonder if this is a change they enacted with iOS 7.

I just went to iCloud.com and saw the .mov icon in my Notes. Double clicking on it downloads the video.

Still, on iOS I could've sworn it used to play the video as well. Perhaps I'm mistaking it for a gif, which doesn't seem to sync either. Whatever, still a great app rich-text editor. Though I do get an occasional duplicate of a note that I've edited. After I've established the most recent on one all 3 devices (phone, pad, desk) I delete the dupe.
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post #138 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I just went to iCloud.com and saw the .mov icon in my Notes. Double clicking on it downloads the video.

Still, on iOS I could've sworn it used to play the video as well. Perhaps I'm mistaking it for a gif, which doesn't seem to sync either. Whatever, still a great app rich-text editor. Though I do get an occasional duplicate of a note that I've edited. After I've established the most recent on one all 3 devices (phone, pad, desk) I delete the dupe.

Videos, images, and animated GIFs do work in iMessages.

Speaking of iMessages I do have one big complaint about it. On the Mac you can send a (formatted) hypertext hyperlink (e.g.: www.apple.com as Check this out.) and it will go through Apple's iMessage servers just fine and work for recipients that have used a Mac to read the message. But iOS devices will just plaintext saying 'Check this out.' Even if Apple didn't want to make these hypertext hyperlinks they could at least strip out the hypertext on the device side to show you the link. This seems very sloppy to me.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #139 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I just went to iCloud.com and saw the .mov icon in my Notes. Double clicking on it downloads the video.

Still, on iOS I could've sworn it used to play the video as well. Perhaps I'm mistaking it for a gif, which doesn't seem to sync either. Whatever, still a great app rich-text editor. Though I do get an occasional duplicate of a note that I've edited. After I've established the most recent on one all 3 devices (phone, pad, desk) I delete the dupe.

Videos, images, and animated GIFs do work in iMessages.

Speaking of iMessages I do have one big complaint about it. On the Mac you can send a (formatted) hypertext hyperlink (e.g.: www.apple.com as Check this out.) and it will go through Apple's iMessage servers just fine and work for recipients that have used a Mac to read the message. But iOS devices will just plaintext saying 'Check this out.' Even if Apple didn't want to make these hypertext hyperlinks they could at least strip out the hypertext on the device side to show you the link. This seems very sloppy to me.

That's a valid point on the hyperlinks. Do they have a feedback page for that? I couldn't find it...
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post #140 of 160

if the purpose of the article (by including phones) is to show that MS's dominance has been usurped then surely it is Android that has taken the crown rather than MS's older adversary?

 

Or is the total of Android devices (phones, tablets, notebooks, watches, cars, media players, etc) lower?

 

And in light of the fact that most market analysts, such as Gartner, include Symbian as a smartphone then I guess it is possible that MS haven't been dominant for over 10 years. 

post #141 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

What makes everyone think that creating Word documents is the definition of a personal computer.  The iPhone can create all kinds of content.  Calendar entries, pictures, videos, emails, texts, tweets, social network entries, video game play, etc.  Why does all this content have to take a back seat to Word and Excel spreadsheets?  I think the content created on an iPhone or iPad creates more value to its user in terms of enjoyment than Word and Excel spreadsheets. Your definition of a personal computer is fucked up.

What is fucked up is your assumption that just because something can do a task at a simple level means it can replace something that does it in a more comprehensive way in an easier fashion.

This is like saying because a semi has the same horsepower engine and similar load capacity that it is a viable dump truck replacement. Sure, if you are willing to compromise on being stupid in using the right tools for the right jobs.

I don't give a shit if the task is writing documents, editing movies/photos or using garage band...a 3.5" screen sucks ass while a 8" screen is viable.

See I can use four letter words too.
post #142 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

1hmm.gif

The biggest one is that I find several sites that just don't behave well on iPad. The hardware (iPad 3) often doesn't seem to be up to the task. iOS Safari seems to crash a lot more. Maybe it's the site's fault, I don't know. But even my 2007 MBP handle same sites just fine.

Even in iOS 7, leave a tab alone long enough (seems half hour) and it has to reload when I revisit it, even in the same browsing session. I never get that on Windows or MacOS, it stayed loaded.

Downloaded file handling seems a bit limited.

I'd also like to "print" a page to PDF. But that need really only came up once on iOS, though I use it a lot on the desktop.

Ok, fair enough. My experience is similar (and I also have an iPad3).
It seems that most of the problems disappeared on the new iPhone (5S) and I expect that to be the case on the latest iPad also.
For me the positives like being able to browse everywhere and 'remove' ads in a few simple moves outweighs the negatives by far.
I also stop visiting websites that don't work well (AI excluded).
post #143 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I do take issue with how Apple updates this productivity suite. I have no problem with iWork — do they even call it that anymore? — not being as robust as MS Office and I really like the current move to keep the feature set between platforms (Mac, iCloud, iOS) the same, but I don't like that they have so many dry spells and seemingly play chutes-and-ladders where they take these huge steps backwards in functionality. I would much rather they have a dedicated iWork team that would release only a few, incremental, and platform-balanced feature updates each and every year. Hopefully the move to make this free with the perhaps of a Mac of iOS-based iDevice is a sign of good things to come.

Agreed, in other words, they should have left the Mac version alone until the iOS version had feature parity.  What they really need to do is kick the development into high gear and produce a better product than MS.  That would be a good use of some portion of that $159 billion.  What's the problem Apple?  Can't afford to develop the iWork platform? 

post #144 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

Agreed, in other words, they should have left the Mac version alone until the iOS version had feature parity.  What they really need to do is kick the development into high gear and produce a better product than MS.  That would be a good use of some portion of that $159 billion.  What's the problem Apple?  Can't afford to develop the iWork platform? 

Hmm… I'm not sure I agree about not touching the Mac app until the iOS version had feature parity as so much of the Mac app had to be rewritten and the connectivity via iCloud might have some issues using the old code base. Also, I find the current feature set across all three platforms to be better suited for my needs than simply having a stand alone Mac version… I just wish they didn't back burner iWork for long.

Ideally I would have liked this project (including being free, like Mac OS X) to have started years ago and slowly progressed forward each year so now in the 7th year of the iPhone we might have something that is considerably more robust than it is today.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #145 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post


What is fucked up is your assumption that just because something can do a task at a simple level means it can replace something that does it in a more comprehensive way in an easier fashion.

This is like saying because a semi has the same horsepower engine and similar load capacity that it is a viable dump truck replacement. Sure, if you are willing to compromise on being stupid in using the right tools for the right jobs.

I don't give a shit if the task is writing documents, editing movies/photos or using garage band...a 3.5" screen sucks ass while a 8" screen is viable.

See I can use four letter words too.

ummmm, "fucked" is a six letter word. LOL, learn to count. 

You missed the point. I'm saying creating pictures, emails, etc. is worthy content creation.  Just because I create different content doesn't mean I'm not creating content.  To keep with your analogy, you are saying that a semi isn't a vehicle because it can't dump like a dump truck.  I'm calling BS on that assumption.  A semi is a vehicle even though it can't dump. An iPhone is computer even if it can't do Word processing well. comprende chico? 

post #146 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Hmm… I'm not sure I agree about not touching the Mac app until the iOS version had feature parity as so much of the Mac app had to be rewritten and the connectivity via iCloud might have some issues using the old code base. Also, I find the current feature set across all three platforms to be better suited for my needs than simply having a stand alone Mac version… I just wish they didn't back burner iWork for long.

Ideally I would have liked this project (including being free, like Mac OS X) to have started years ago and slowly progressed forward each year so now in the 7th year of the iPhone we might have something that is considerably more robust than it is today.

yes, agreed.  They obviously knew mobile was going to be successful. Steve Jobs made bold statements about it. Someone deserves a kick in the pants for doing nothing about the mobile strategy for pages over the last 5 years. 

post #147 of 160

LOL what a load of crap! then tell me why Windows has a 92PCT market share? and anyway this includes iPads and iPhones, which are not PCs.. and don't give me the whole "personal computer" excuse.. Windows 8 PCs OUTSELL Macs and iMacs EVERY SINGLE QUARTER, and that's a fact. In this case, they should count Windows Laptops, Desktops, Surfaces, and WP8 devices vs. Apple's devices, to at least make it somewhat fair.

post #148 of 160

but an iPad is a MOBILE DEVICE.. not a PC! A PC is something that you use a mouse and keyboard with. and that hasn't changed in the last 30 years. no matter what you want to argue.

post #149 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepen03 View Post

but an iPad is a MOBILE DEVICE.. not a PC! A PC is something that you use a mouse and keyboard with. and that hasn't changed in the last 30 years. no matter what you want to argue.

If to be defined as personal computer it has to include a mouse and physical keyboard then the IBM-PC would not have been a "PC" based on your definition, and if you say that the definition changed after the mouse and GUI were introduced then you need to explain why the definition isn't allowed change yet again now that these very personal computing devices are replacing "traditional PCs" in part and in whole, depending on the user.

Also, why were there two decades of keyboard-less and mouse-less Tablet PCs counted alongside all other Windows PCs and now all of a sudden tablets don't count now that Apple has a dominant foothold in the personal computing market? Does this go back to the 2010 claims that the iPad is just a toy?
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/16/14 at 1:03pm

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post #150 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by deepen03 View Post

but an iPad is a MOBILE DEVICE.. not a PC!
Precisely the point. The article was posted to illustrate how mobile is taking over the market.

Tbh you have it back to front, the charts should have removed the Mac business (or at least the non-laptop Mac business) and only posted the iOS figures.

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post #151 of 160
Originally Posted by deepen03 View Post
but an iPad is a MOBILE DEVICE not a PC!

 

No. Sorry. Try again.

 
A PC is something that you use a mouse and keyboard with. and that hasn't changed in the last 30 years.

 

Obviously that means it can never change at any point in the future¡

 

This is you, 30 years ago:

 
A PC is something that you use a keyboard with and that hasn’t changed in the last 8 years.

 

And eight years before that:

 
A PC is something that you flick switches on and then read configurations of lights and that hasn’t changed in the last 20 years. 

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #152 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post


 The article was posted to illustrate how mobile is taking over the market.
 

 

Whilst overlooking the fact that internet enabled phones probably surpassed the number of PCs long before the iPhone was even released.

 

IMO the primary objective for Evans posting his cherry picking article was self-promotion. Well it certain garnered him a lot of column inches.

post #153 of 160

If you're including WAP in "internet-enabled phones" then that's probably true.  How widely used was that though?  I know I had a couple of feature phones where I never touched the internet connectivity because it was so slow and difficult to use with a little keypad.  Maybe others used it more, but it never seemed widespread to me, the only times I remember seeing it used was to check the odd sports score. Whereas I imagine proportion of people that have an iPhone or iPad and don't use the internet pretty regularly and for a number of different things is at most in the low single digits, and probably <1%.  Just guessing, obviously.

 

But more to the point, do you think Microsoft were losing any significant number of Windows sales to phones before the current (i.e. post iPhone) mobile take off (phone and tablet)?  It certainly seems like their sales are being affected now.

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post #154 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungover View Post

Whilst overlooking the fact that internet enabled phones probably surpassed the number of PCs long before the iPhone was even released.

IMO the primary objective for Evans posting his cherry picking article was self-promotion. Well it certain garnered him a lot of column inches.

That brings up a good point. Where do we start measuring? Long before the iPhone there were WAP* browsers which technically connected to the internet and accessed websites. They also connected via various apps to both inter- and intranet-based services via the carrier.

That said, I think it's hard to make a solid case that this should be included outside of a footnote since the usability was absolutely horrid. It would be like saying commercial airline started in 1903 if the Wright Brothers had charged their neighbor a tanner** for a flight.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #155 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


That brings up a good point. Where do we start measuring? Long before the iPhone there were WAP* browsers which technically connected to the internet and accessed websites. They also connected via various apps to both inter- and intranet-based services via the carrier.

That said, I think it's hard to make a solid case that this should be included outside of a footnote since the usability was absolutely horrid. It would be like saying commercial airline started in 1903 if the Wright Brothers had charged their neighbor a tanner** for a flight.


* Crowley, even though it's the same sound as a racial slur when spoken you shouldn't assume that it's a racial slur.
** I'm assuming their neighbor was from Britain in this scenario.

 

There-in lies the problem with definitions, they seem to shift over time. Whilst language is supposed to be dynamic it increases the scope for people to wilfully adapt their definition to suit their argument.

 

If we take the term smartphone for example, what does that mean? Gartner, for example, class Symbian as being a smartphone platform.  A common pre-requisite seems to be internet connectivity but this could imply email access rather than web access, and then how do we define web access. WAP was web access, it wasn't particularly nice but it was better than no access (and it should be remembered that MMS was part of the WAP protocol.

 

The IBM Simon in 1993 had internet access via email, the 1999 Nokia 7110 had WAP access, the 2002 Nokia 7650 had HTML access (via the Doris browser app) and shortly after that the "PDA phones" had native HTML support. And throughout the period we had portable devices such as PDAs and laptops that could use cell phones as modems or WiFi. Again, I return to my earlier point and add that Symbian (classified by Gartner as being a smartphone) probably passed MS ages ago.

 

For me one of the bigger problems with the article is that it focuses on the devices rather than usage. The ability to access the internet on mobile devices hasn't radically changed over the last 10 years or so, yet very few people wanted internet access (regardless of the quality of service. Arguably the more important factor has been the rise in popularity of social media sites (for example). 

post #156 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That brings up a good point. Where do we start measuring? Long before the iPhone there were WAP* browsers which technically connected to the internet and accessed websites. They also connected via various apps to both inter- and intranet-based services via the carrier.

There were devices that were referred to as Pocket PCs between about 2000-2011:



Microsoft has always said that mobile devices should be considered PCs too.

Apps, Word, Excel, images, Opera, Internet Explorer etc. There's not enough of those old devices to be worth counting but they meet a lot of the PC criteria people have for smartphones. I never considered the likes of Palm, Windows Mobile, even the Newton to be PC replacement devices. Same with the likes of the palmtops back in the late 90s:



You can run Android on a watch, you get apps and browsers on the XBox and PS4 and they are even x86 now, the PS4 running some Linux OS. If it's just down to the OS capability then they're all PCs but it's not meaningful to group them together if they aren't competing products. If a graphic designer went shopping for a desktop PC in 2004, the salesman wouldn't ask if they'd rather have an iPaq because it's not a replacement for their usage. If a graphic designer went shopping for an iMac in 2014, the salesman wouldn't ask if they'd rather have an iPod Touch because it's also not a replacement.

Personal Computing implies productivity rather than consumption. An Apple TV, a Classic iPod, a smart TV, a console are considered consumption devices regardless of the OS they run. Pocket PCs, smartphones, Palm devices, Newton etc are meant to be highly mobile productivity devices but their form factor impairs productivity and it always has.

I'd say that productivity is impaired on anything with a display under 7". But then there's the UMPC devices that even run Windows:



That one's actually called the iWatch Pocket Pal Nano PC. There's a wireless USB stick that connects to a display and behaves just like a PC with external peripherals. That kind of device could run Photoshop or Office. But then, so can an iPhone using a remote desktop app. If it's just about controlling and displaying a productive PC experience, then lots of things can be PCs.

But, we have to draw a line somewhere otherwise the stats don't mean anything. Would you sit in front of an iPod Touch for an 8 hour working day to produce something you'd be paid for? Would you ever rely on it to earn an income? I don't think so. I think the same applies to Pocket PC devices. People do this with tablets though to an extent.

It's not that this makes a smartphone not fit the criteria for being a Personal Computing device, I just don't think it's a meaningful statement to call a smartphone a PC when the typical usage pattern differs so much.
post #157 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 

jungmark is correct on this one. The Windows number includes worthless laptops and netbooks as well as their mobile devices that can't run anything more than what the iPhone can run. I like the comparison. To make matters worse for Microsoft, I'd like to know how many of those PCs are sitting in people's closets, store rooms, and recycling centers. Of course, Microsoft has to count all of them even if they aren't running.

 

Sitting in a closet 1-4 months after purchase (these were purchased in the 4th quarter)? I think that's unlikely even for a PC. 

 

Now, if you want to talk installed base numbers, that would be a worthy objection, though I have the sense that Apple customers upgrade more frequently than PC customers do, so there may be a higher proportion of orphaned Apple devices. Too many unknowns to be sure, though.

post #158 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

I don't give a shit if the task is writing documents, editing movies/photos or using garage band...a 3.5" screen sucks ass while a 8" screen is viable.

 

But in the future, where snarky tweets and forum comments have supplanted all other forms of human communication, the 3.5" screen will be all you need!

post #159 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post


Now, if you want to talk installed base numbers, that would be a worthy objection, though I have the sense that Apple customers upgrade more frequently than PC customers do, so there may be a higher proportion of orphaned Apple devices. Too many unknowns to be sure, though.

Nope. Many PC owners upgrade to the latest OS by buying a new PC. My Mac lasted 7 yrs. my PC lasted 3. iPhone users may upgrade more frequently but those early upgraders trade in their old iPhones ( to be refurbished and resold), hand-me down to children, or sell it.
post #160 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arlor View Post

But in the future, where snarky tweets and forum comments have supplanted all other forms of human communication, the 3.5" screen will be all you need!
lol.gif That's a dystopian future to fear!

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