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Apple, Inc. sold more computers than all of Microsoft's Windows PC partners in December quarter - Page 2

post #41 of 160
Stupid comparison. You could just as easily say Samsung sold more computers than apple and Microsoft partners combined.
post #42 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

No I'm not, was curious on your take on it.

Ok. Two different form factors for different use cases.
post #43 of 160
as always there is a difference between the amount shipped and the amount sold.
post #44 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorOO7 View Post

So the only way Apple can say they outsold Windows OEM's is to combine ios devices into the computer category. Sorry that is a lame answer if you can't win on the product alone then don't play the game. Desktops/laptops vs desktops/laptops. Next they will count their iwatch as a computer and the appletv as well.
Says who? In fact, the comparison is even more appropriate than this article suggests since Apple sells all those devices by itself and Microsoft has legions of othe companies designing and selling computers
post #45 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorOO7 View Post

So the only way Apple can say they outsold Windows OEM's is to combine ios devices into the computer category. Sorry that is a lame answer if you can't win on the product alone then don't play the game. Desktops/laptops vs desktops/laptops. Next they will count their iwatch as a computer and the appletv as well.

Apple plays (and wins) the game by counting its money. End of story.

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post #46 of 160
@rob53
@LarryA

Sorry probably an English as a second ;language issue on my part however you quoted me and as far as I can tell made no contextual point that related to what I posted whatsoever.

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post #47 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Stupid comparison. You could just as easily say Samsung sold more computers than apple and Microsoft partners combined.
No, it is a fair comparison. Internet data shows that iOS users actually use their devices as real computers. (Like me writing this post on an iPhone). The evidence suggest otherwise for Samdung devices.
post #48 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Not sure I'm comfortable with mobile phones being placed up against traditional PC's in this data. Adding iPads & Mac's together no problem but adding in iPhones...... You might as well start adding in my calculator wrist watch from the 80's, it's able to compute after all.

Wrong! Millions of people around the world are using their smartphones as their primary computing device!
post #49 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Surely you can't be serious.


He's not being serious. He's just being dasanman69.

 

And don't call him Shirley.

post #50 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

wait a minute you forgot to add in the Microsoft Surface RT and Pro to the Microsoft column.  that changes everything.     /s

To paraphrase Steve Ballmer: that's a rounding error.

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post #51 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Wrong! Millions of people around the world are using their smartphones as their primary computing device!

True, and this will only accelerate as a future generations have their first computing experience on a phone or tablet. In developing countries, smartphones and feature phones are people's primary access to the Internet.

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post #52 of 160
Of course I remember that Apple and MS have been around longer than Google.., but so what?  This isn't the 90s. It's 2014. Some silly old rivalry isn't a valid reason to call cell phones "computers" and then compare sales of hardware against sales of OS licenses.  It's just completely meaningless.
Edited by starxd - 2/13/14 at 10:24pm
post #53 of 160
Quote:
 Not sure I'm comfortable with mobile phones being placed up against traditional PC's in this data. Adding iPads & Mac's together no problem but adding in iPhones...

Perhaps you might look at this from the utility or business perspectives.  

The iOS devices and their successors have made it possible for the Web to be largely the Web, no matter the container.  The same can be said for their provisioning of e-mail and other things that people often used a PC for.  

It used to be that we had to wait until we got to our offices before we could receive and then reply to our e-mails on our PCs; now we can do both those tasks anywhere and anytime on our mobile devices.  A task done by the latter is one less task done by the former; thus the latter gains value relative to the former.  

If a pair of glasses could get you the same information and services that you go to your PC for, then those glasses can reasonably (and for certain purposes) be considered a competitor to the PC.  The fact that those glasses might only do 90 percent of what that PC can should not be blithely ignored.  The PC industry does well to include functionally similar devices in their competitive assessments, lest they be blind-sided in the marketplace by competition that erupts from an unseen direction… as it would appear Mr. Ballmer and his associates allowed themselves to be.  

 

Seen scrawled on a lavatory wall at Lehigh University in 1971…

"Alas!  Is this the only place where a Lehigh man has time to dream?!"

 

Not anymore...


Edited by AlmostBoughtaLisa - 2/14/14 at 12:13am
post #54 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Stupid comparison. You could just as easily say Samsung sold more computers than apple and Microsoft partners combined.

Exactly. This is an incredibly silly comparison.
post #55 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by starxd View Post

Of course I remember that Apple and MS have been around longer than Google.., but so what? This isn't the 90s. It's 2014. Some silly old rivalry isn't a valid reason to call cell phones "computers" and then compare sales of hardware against sales of OS licenses. It's just completely meaningless.

Ah, I see the problem. Just because you have neither heard of nor considered that the iPhone and iPad personal computers doesn't mean they don't fit the definition. They are not only more powerful, more versatile, and more useful than "PCs" of the 1990s, but are considerably more personal. You don't count your calculator watch because it's a very limited appliance.

You can count Android, WinPh, and even BB10-based smartphones and tablets in a count for personal computers, which I'm surprised you haven't seen before, but this is clearly not about the share of the market.

If you don't think the iPhone is personal computer then you can't possibly think the iPad is a personal computer which then makes me wonder why you think people are giving up Windows and even Mac OS X)-based personal computers to either solely or mostly use these other devices for tasks they previous used this much bigger, more costly, and less personal devices. Furthermore, if you can't see how the iPhone and iPad are personal computers then you can't consider the Mac a personal computer unless you have invented your own definition (which seems very at this point) that would somehow require an on-screen (mouse) pointer to a be PC (or some other forced definition), which would be odd considering that IBM's branded IBM PC had no GUI at all.

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post #56 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Ah, I see the problem. Just because you have neither heard of nor considered that the iPhone and iPad personal computers doesn't mean they don't fit the definition. They are not only more powerful, more versatile, and more useful than "PCs" of the 1990s, but are considerably more personal. You don't count your calculator watch because it's a very limited appliance.

You can count Android, WinPh, and even BB10-based smartphones and tablets in a count for personal computers, which I'm surprised you haven't seen before, but this is clearly not about the share of the market.

If you don't think the iPhone is personal computer then you can't possibly think the iPad is a personal computer which then makes me wonder why you think people are giving up Windows and even Mac OS X)-based personal computers to either solely or mostly use these other devices for tasks they previous used this much bigger, more costly, and less personal devices. Furthermore, if you can't see how the iPhone and iPad are personal computers then you can't consider the Mac a personal computer unless you have invented your own definition (which seems very at this point) that would somehow require an on-screen (mouse) pointer to a be PC (or some other forced definition), which would be odd considering that IBM's branded IBM PC had no GUI at all.

 

It's not about whether an iPhone/iPod is considered a personal computer.  It's about similar functions.  People can use an iPad to replace a laptop/desktop - the same can't be said for an iPhone/iPod.  I doubt any significant number of people only use their iPhone/iPod as their computing device.  That's why it's silly to count them when comparing with Windows pcs.

post #57 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps similar, but it doesn't really matter because iOS is not certified UNIX.

 

You can read the dozens of requirements here:

http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/testing/prodstds.htm

 

iOS doesn't conform to any of them.

 

I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks

 

If we're going to split unnecessary hairs, Leopard was the first version of OS X (built on the darwin kernel architecture) to receive full SUS 3.0 UNIX Certification... Which lends a sort of "ipso facto" factor to the situation (considering iOS runs the exactly same kernel, just ported to ARM).  But it honestly couldn't matter less.  UNIX is not an operating system anymore, it's not even a particular set of programming or API's.  It's simply a set of guidelines to guarantee interoperability with any other system that is UNIX-certified.  If they so chose, Microsoft could incorporate those guidelines into their next version of Windows, pay the money to get it reviewed, and Windows would be UNIX certified.

 

None of this changes the fact that BSD UNIX and anything built off that starting point is, and should be, referred to as "UNIX".  UN*X Or *nix for the pedantic.  "Certified Unix" is a completely different thing.

post #58 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

It's not about whether an iPhone/iPod is considered a personal computer.  It's about similar functions.  People can use an iPad to replace a laptop/desktop - the same can't be said for an iPhone/iPod.  I doubt any significant number of people only use their iPhone/iPod as their computing device.  That's why it's silly to count them when comparing with Windows pcs.

1) I know plenty of people that use their iPhones more in a week than they ever used their WinPCs in months.

2) You think netbook owners are using them more than an iPhone owners?

3) Speaking of similar functions, that's exactly right and the reason why your position is woefully inaccurate. I can't explain why you would argue that Safari, Mail, App Store apps, etc. between the iPad and iPhone are so dissimilar that people can't do anything useful on the iPhone but that's your issue and you need to simply get over it.

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post #59 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by delreyjones View Post


Does your calculator from the 80s run Unix?

 

I think I'll nit-pick this 'delreyjones' guy ...  

 
Who cares if the internals are Unix or not?  (It's especially unimportant whether or not it's Certified Unix or Linux or QNX or whatever ...)  Microsoft's devices are definitely not *nix.  M$ grew their own with David Cutler, so it's all some kind of VMS progeny, but Windows is still completely usable  What's important is whether or not it's a viable, modern platform.  IOS, Android and Windows are all viable.  Maybe Blackberry is too, I don't know.  Here's a bare minimum to be a viable, modern platform:
 
-  web browsing
-  email
-  developer API
 
There are probably more criteria, but the above covers a lot.  Windows, Macs, Windows Phone, IOS devices, and high end Android all qualify.  Apple IIs, Windows 3.1 machines, 1980s vintage technology in general, and low-end Android devices do not qualify.  
 
This is big news that Apple devices have eclipsed Windows devices.  Those of you who are nit-picking need to get some altitude to see that this change reflects a way in which the entire world has changed.  And yes, Android is big and Android is important, but it's fragmented and its place in the technology universe is not perfectly clear.  Both OSX/IOS and Windows are relatively homogeneous, and as of now people are buying and using more Apple devices than Windows devices.  
 
Changing of the guard does not happen every day.

Edited by delreyjones - 2/14/14 at 12:30am
post #60 of 160

Not sure why it matters to @delrayjones' point (or the larger discussion) whether or not the version of Unix implemented in iOS is "certified UNIX."  Wikipedia advises that iOS is a computer operating system that's "Unix-like" and based on the BSD and in the OS X family.  Shouldn't that be enough to support the point that an iOS device is a computer comparable to at least some versions of PCs in the pool of those we're considering?  After all, MS Windows isn't a certified UNIX, either.  

 

Separately, I see* at opengroup.org that the BSD flavor of UNIX is not "certified" -- does that mean that the BSD is not really UNIX?  

 

* thanks to @mstone

† By the way… the Wikipedia article on OS X tells us that Tigers, Leopards, Snow Leopards, and Lions were also certified UNIX beasties, just like the most recent two.

post #61 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

Now you're just splitting hairs.  Can we all agree an iPhone is a much more capable device than an 80's calculator watch or even an 80's PC?

No, there was a claim that the iPhone ran UNIX, and just like the 80's calculator, it doesn't
post #62 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


No, there was a claim that the iPhone ran UNIX, and just like the 80's calculator, it doesn't

 

OK.  But would you argue with the assertion that IOS is kind of on par with Windows, and 80's calculators are kind of not on par with Windows?

post #63 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

No, there was a claim that the iPhone ran UNIX, and just like the 80's calculator, it doesn't

1) I have no idea what you meant by the phrase "the iPhone ran UNIX." It's not an app or a service that runs on the OS, it's a specification in which an OS can be certified.

2) It appears that iOS was never specifically certified under SUSv3 but since all apps are loaded via Apple's App Store and peripheral access is limited there is no absolutely no reason for this to transpire specifically for iOS. That said, Darwin is compliant with SUSv3 and since Darwin makes up the core components of iOS your claim that there is no UNIX-like OS in iOS is unfounded. And, yes, UNIX-like is the proper terminology when referring to a BSD system, which includes the SUSv3 certified Mac OS X.

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post #64 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Not sure I'm comfortable with mobile phones being placed up against traditional PC's in this data. Adding iPads & Mac's together no problem but adding in iPhones...... You might as well start adding in my calculator wrist watch from the 80's, it's able to compute after all.

Well its not full OS X experience but is still a computer and its just a matter of time until becomes full OS X Computer

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Then why make the iPad at all if it's a redundant piece of hardware?

 

I decided not to ignore this, when the iPad gets full OS X experience in the future that could only mean bye bye Macbook translation the iPad it's a laptop killer

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


when did iOS become certified UNIX?

since 2007

 

 

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post #65 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by starxd View Post

Of course I remember that Apple and MS have been around longer than Google.., but so what? This isn't the 90s. It's 2014. Some silly old rivalry isn't a valid reason to call cell phones "computers" and then compare sales of hardware against sales of OS licenses. It's just completely meaningless.

Ah, I see the problem. Just because you have neither heard of nor considered that the iPhone and iPad personal computers doesn't mean they don't fit the definition. They are not only more powerful, more versatile, and more useful than "PCs" of the 1990s, but are considerably more personal. You don't count your calculator watch because it's a very limited appliance.

You can count Android, WinPh, and even BB10-based smartphones and tablets in a count for personal computers, which I'm surprised you haven't seen before, but this is clearly not about the share of the market.

If you don't think the iPhone is personal computer then you can't possibly think the iPad is a personal computer which then makes me wonder why you think people are giving up Windows and even Mac OS X)-based personal computers to either solely or mostly use these other devices for tasks they previous used this much bigger, more costly, and less personal devices. Furthermore, if you can't see how the iPhone and iPad are personal computers then you can't consider the Mac a personal computer unless you have invented your own definition (which seems very at this point) that would somehow require an on-screen (mouse) pointer to a be PC (or some other forced definition), which would be odd considering that IBM's branded IBM PC had no GUI at all.

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post #66 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMember View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Well its not full OS X experience but is still a computer and its just a matter of time until becomes full OS X Computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Then why make the iPad at all if it's a redundant piece of hardware?

I decided not to ignore this, when the iPad gets full OS X experience in the future that could only mean bye bye Macbook translation the iPad it's a laptop killer
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

when did iOS become certified UNIX?
since 2007

Mmm... maybe the tipping point is when Macs get the full iOS experience...
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post #67 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Stupid comparison. You could just as easily say Samsung sold more computers than apple and Microsoft partners combined.

No they didn't "sold more than Apple" if you don't include Samsung feauture phones which i call it lame fi$#ud S#$$$$$$$$ piss of cr$$$ fuc!n$ hate you samsong!!!!! believe me i used one 

 

 

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post #68 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Mmm... maybe the tipping point is when Macs get the full iOS experience...

Well yeah iOS does have some really awesome feautures like iPhone 4S's Siri, Air Play, Air Print, iCloud and more because of that i became Apple fan, but.. they did use Mac to make those features, don't get me wrong i like both of them but each one edges the other one 

 

OS X needs more Apps in Mac App Store, Siri and more features like iOS

iOS needs PRO Apps, True Multitasking and Hardware improvements like 100% sensitive Multi-Touchscreen so you can draw with your own fingers

 

 

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post #69 of 160

Its pretty funny to count all those idevices as computers until you look at the average selling price...

Apple a.s.p. is greater than the a.s.p. of the windows Pc's, pretty disturbing stats :-)

post #70 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by starxd View Post


Exactly. This is an incredibly silly comparison.

 

actually, no, because of the average selling price. If you count all of Samsung sales, they will probably sell more than all of the windows pc's, but there average selling price is going to be lower. In Apple case, the a.s.p. is higher, making the comparison significant....

post #71 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

It's not about whether an iPhone/iPod is considered a personal computer.  It's about similar functions.  People can use an iPad to replace a laptop/desktop - the same can't be said for an iPhone/iPod.  I doubt any significant number of people only use their iPhone/iPod as their computing device.  That's why it's silly to count them when comparing with Windows pcs.

Lots of people use a PC to check email, surf the web, or play games. You can do that on idevices.
post #72 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Stupid comparison. You could just as easily say Samsung sold more computers than apple and Microsoft partners combined.

Not all Sammy's are smart phones.
MS and Apple are not related so that would be a useless grouping.
post #73 of 160
Quote:
 Apple's rapidly expanding iOS platform was extended to iPad, which worked like a larger format iPod touch

Not this old lie again!  Please God, the iPad is NOTHING like the iPod Touch!  It is a whole new experience!

post #74 of 160
Such sales volumes were unthinkable for Apple just a few years ago. While the company's Mac desktops and notebooks were growing significantly in the mid 2000s, they still remained in the realm of a million or two systems each year...

I don't think that is a true statistic.

 

 

 

 

Thompson

post #75 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post
 
It's actually a very nice computer, a whole lot better than a lot of those garbage netbooks and ultra whatevers the PC crowd likes to try and say are computers.

 

Seriously.  The iPad is twice the computer compared with any ultrabook that the PC crowd is crowing about.

post #76 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Totally correct. An iPhone 5s would blow an IBM PC out of the water and an IBM XT ... and so on ... , hell they were only 8 bit not to mention the crappy OS they ran!

 

The biggest difference is that the PC would run any software that was written for it, but on the 5s, you can only run good software that Apple allows you to run.  So it is better.

post #77 of 160
undefined
post #78 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Not sure I'm comfortable with mobile phones being placed up against traditional PC's in this data. Adding iPads & Mac's together no problem but adding in iPhones...... You might as well start adding in my calculator wrist watch from the 80's, it's able to compute after all.

Yeah, if you are going to go that route, shouldn't all MS devices be included? What about servers and Windows embedded products? Of course, if that was done, the numbers would be back in MS's favor and since this is nothing more than pointless link bait, that wouldn't work. Absolute garbage.

 

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post #79 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post


No, it is a fair comparison. Internet data shows that iOS users actually use their devices as real computers. (Like me writing this post on an iPhone). The evidence suggest otherwise for Samdung devices.

 

Internet data is collected through ads.  Just means iOS users visit web pages more.  Not sure how that equates to using an iOS as "real computers. " Most people consider real computer use to be at least word processing and not just browsing the internet and shopping.
 

post #80 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) I know plenty of people that use their iPhones more in a week than they ever used their WinPCs in months.

2) You think netbook owners are using them more than an iPhone owners?

3) Speaking of similar functions, that's exactly right and the reason why your position is woefully inaccurate. I can't explain why you would argue that Safari, Mail, App Store apps, etc. between the iPad and iPhone are so dissimilar that people can't do anything useful on the iPhone but that's your issue and you need to simply get over it.

How many word documents or spreadsheets have you created using your iPhone.  I'm talking like actual documents not like 3 sentences. I'm pretty sure that number is fairly small if even any.  If all you're using a computer for is browsing the internet and checking email and going on the app store, then sure, an iPad and iPhone are pretty much the same thing.  

 

It's not about how often you use it.  It's about how you're using it.  And again, this is assuming you at least do some kind of word processing or spreadsheet work and not just browse the internet or check your email.

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