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Apple, Inc. sold more computers than all of Microsoft's Windows PC partners in December quarter - Page 3

post #81 of 160

If you want to add meaning to the metric commingling mobile and desktop operating systems, it's the now commonplace knowledge of Objective-C and Xcode. Software had for years been a hurdle for OSX. Not only is this not an issue anymore (except in some specialized situations) the opposite is true; there is a lack of apps for Windows Mobile. Even the long-standing joke about the games section at an Apple Store will soon disappear and is quite the opposite when comparing iOS to Windows Mobile.

post #82 of 160
clickbait title much?

No, apple didn't sell more computers. They sold more desktop, laptop, and mobile devices. Your own graph shows a massive discrepancy between 'Macs' and 'windows PCs' - or computers. This wont include non partner Microsoft suppliers, home enthusiasts, OEMs, unbranded PCs or Windows Servers..

Apple also didn't sell more devices running Apple's OSs than other vendors sold running Android. Still, I wouldn't expect this site to report the actual unbiased facts - why change a habit of a lifetime.
post #83 of 160
But then don't we have to include a large range of Android phones?
post #84 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Wha? Why not add iPhones? Whatever the iPad can do, the iPhone can do it as well

 

Really?! Awesome, let me tell the teams they can stop wasting money on all our m. solutions they are working on. What a waste! They all can do the same thing! Quick let's delete all the device segmentations in analytics, we don't need it! Everyone behaves the same, what fools we all are chasing customer experiences!

I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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I'm not a pessimist. I'm an optimist, with experience.
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post #85 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

How many word documents or spreadsheets have you created using your iPhone.  I'm talking like actual documents not like 3 sentences. I'm pretty sure that number is fairly small if even any.  If all you're using a computer for is browsing the internet and checking email and going on the app store, then sure, an iPad and iPhone are pretty much the same thing.  

It's not about how often you use it.  It's about how you're using it.  And again, this is assuming you at least do some kind of word processing or spreadsheet work and not just browse the internet or check your email.

1) Zero for creating spreadsheet on my iPhone, but also zero for my iPad, MBP, iMac, and netbook.

2) For word processor documents I do this extensively on my iPhone, and pretty much no where else. I do this in the Notes apps where I have multiple notes covering many topics.

3) I am trying to consider a world where people use their "PCs" specifically for spreadsheets and Word documents, bit not for checking email, browsing the internet and using various 3rd-party apps. If that's what you think is the norm is not an accurate portrayal of what people do with "PCs", and you're lying to yourself since you're on this forum, which I happen to be replying to use with more than 3 sentences from my iPhone.

4) How often you use something is also important. You can hate on the iPhone's Mail or Safari for being used more than on a WinPC but it's being used more and in the same way by pretty much everyone. It's simply silly to move the goal posts to say that it's not a PC if you aren't doing extensive spreadsheets even though you could if you wanted to. In fact, you can do a lot more in less time on an iDevice than you could with Lotus 1-2-3 on the old IBM-PC.

5) Note that I mentioned I have a netbook. It's an Intel chip so that makes it a real "PC" in your book? It has Win7 installed so does that makes it a real "PC"? It has a VGA port so does that it a real "PC"? Do you know what I use it for? For sending and receiving Pings when testing my network labs. No spreadsheets. No word processors. That's it and because that's it I don't count that in the list of "PCs" that I own even though another could use it as a "PC" despite it being a very poor personal computing device compared to a Mac, iPad and iPhone which are all personal computers despite what myopic and outdated definition you wish to impose on them.

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post #86 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

Internet data is collected through ads.  Just means iOS users visit web pages more.  Not sure how that equates to using an iOS as "real computers. " Most people consider real computer use to be at least word processing and not just browsing the internet and shopping.

 

Most? Do you have a survey on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shepps View Post

clickbait title much?

No, apple didn't sell more computers. They sold more desktop, laptop, and mobile devices. Your own graph shows a massive discrepancy between 'Macs' and 'windows PCs' - or computers. This wont include non partner Microsoft suppliers, home enthusiasts, OEMs, unbranded PCs or Windows Servers..

Apple also didn't sell more devices running Apple's OSs than other vendors sold running Android. Still, I wouldn't expect this site to report the actual unbiased facts - why change a habit of a lifetime.

This was just comparing Apple and Microsoft. Why do Androiders think otherwise.

It's like comparing just apples and oranges then have some banana lovers scream "Bananas sold more!!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by thataveragejoe View Post

Really?! Awesome, let me tell the teams they can stop wasting money on all our m. solutions they are working on. What a waste! They all can do the same thing! Quick let's delete all the device segmentations in analytics, we don't need it! Everyone behaves the same, what fools we all are chasing customer experiences!

I didn't mention experiences. The fact remains the iPhone can do things that the iPad can. Sure there are benefits of using one over the other, but that wasn't my point. Laptops can do the same things as desktops so why dont we exclude one over the other.
post #87 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

How many word documents or spreadsheets have you created using your iPhone.  I'm talking like actual documents not like 3 sentences. I'm pretty sure that number is fairly small if even any.  If all you're using a computer for is browsing the internet and checking email and going on the app store, then sure, an iPad and iPhone are pretty much the same thing.  

 

It's not about how often you use it.  It's about how you're using it.  And again, this is assuming you at least do some kind of word processing or spreadsheet work and not just browse the internet or check your email.

It's OK if you want to limit your population to those who do spreadsheet and word processor work.  But the original study this article is about, plus most of the people discussing it, don't impose that limitation.  We're interested in the entire community of computer users, including gamers and web surfers and anybody else who spends time doing stuff on their computer (be it handheld or desktop).

 

I myself used to do a lot of spreadsheet and word processing.  I thought it was kind of a sh*tty way to spend my time, and now that I'm retired I don't do so much of it.  But I agree with you, desktops and laptops are the best devices for spreadsheets.  And it reminds me of how Steve Jobs described tablets as like cars and desktops like trucks.  Desktops and trucks aren't going away (someone's got to haul the manure, glad it's not me anymore), but many of us will avoid trucks and desktops when we have the freedom to do so.

post #88 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post


when did iOS become certified UNIX?

From:

https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/iphone/conceptual/iphoneosprogrammingguide/TheiOSEnvironment/TheiOSEnvironment.html

"Specialized System Behaviors

The iOS system is based on the same technologies used by Mac OS X, namely the Mach kernel and BSD interfaces. Thus, iOS apps run in a UNIX-based system and have full support for threads, sockets, and many of the other technologies typically available at that level. However, there are places where the behavior of iOS differs from that of Mac OS X."

 
Also check out:
 
Here is discussed how UNIX has built in modularity, which enabled companies and open source enthusiasts to modify it towards their aims and goal. The modified UNIX is not "certified", but it is still UNIX. Just like legally LINUX is not UNIX, but everyone uses it the same, with much of the same software, and thinks of them as being equal.
 
It can even be said that Android is a break off version of UNIX (LINUX).

 

post #89 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaptorOO7 View Post

So the only way Apple can say they outsold Windows OEM's is to combine ios devices into the computer category. Sorry that is a lame answer if you can't win on the product alone then don't play the game. Desktops/laptops vs desktops/laptops. Next they will count their iwatch as a computer and the appletv as well.

 

 

It's like calling a moped a motorcycle.

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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post #90 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob53 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Calling an iPhone and an iPod Touch a computer it is bit of a stretch because people don't really buy iPhones and iPods instead of a computer.
Your last statement isn't necessarily correct, at least not for everyone. My wife uses an iPad for just about everything she does.

The statement was that iPhones and iPods aren't bought instead of a computer. iPads certainly are.

I think that decision comes down to how long you can use a device comfortably. It's easy to take out an iPhone/iPod while walking to send a text or a tweet, use maps, find a quick link on a browser but could you comfortably use a discussion forum for long periods of time or format documents or read books? It's possible to do but it's not comfortable.

What complicates this is that if you simply attached a large touch display to an iPhone (like the Asus Padfone) then that distinction in comfort is lost.

But, given that these kind of solutions rarely exist, the important consideration with the sales figures has to be competing products at the point of sale. I don't consider an iPod to be a competing product to a laptop but an iPad definitely is. I have bought an iPad instead of a laptop for relatives but would never consider an iPod for the same role because without that screen option, it's not a comfortable enough replacement for a laptop.

There's also the issue that if iPhones and iPods come into play, so do Android smartphones. I think the most meaningful comparison is:

Windows PCs + Surface
vs
Macs + iPads
vs
Android PCs and tablets
vs
Chromebooks

Leave smartphones, music players etc out of it. Some versions of the Kindle can be excluded too as they are low utility devices.

This comparison wouldn't put Apple ahead of all Windows devices combined but it usually puts them ahead of the largest PC manufacturer HP, which is a significant achievement.
post #91 of 160
Some of you are hung up on your inflexible and narrow definition of a computer. And you are missing the point: the functions of a computer are being replaced by other devices. These devices will inherit the earth. My dad used to scoff at personal computers, and called mainframes "real computers." He completely missed the fact that personal computers and microprocessors expanded the reach and availability of computing technology far beyond the expensive mainframe. The use cases for PCs were different from mainframes. Dad clung to the traditional use cases that mainframes were made for. Today, computing and information use cases are shifting to the Internet and cloud services. Pervasive wireless networking will mean highly mobile devices (smartphones and tablets) will become the preferred way a new generation of users will access those services. These people will eschew the complexity of a PC and its in-your-face operating system for the minimal, you-are-directly-touching-your-data experience of the tablet and phone. Fall in love with traditional complex, "elite" technology and you'll miss what is happening. Right now.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #92 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps similar, but it doesn't really matter because iOS is not certified UNIX.

You can read the dozens of requirements here:
http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/testing/prodstds.htm

iOS doesn't conform to any of them.

I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks

Darwin is a Mach kernel and bsd (unix) subsystem. This is the unix part of Mac OS X and the certified bit of Maverick.
Who cares about certification anyway, it's certified by apple, the biggest unix vendor on the planet.
That should be good enough for anyone.
post #93 of 160
Coming soon to anti-Apple argument near you: PCs let you install and run apps without requiring an app store by default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps similar, but it doesn't really matter because iOS is not certified UNIX.

You can read the dozens of requirements here:
http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/testing/prodstds.htm

iOS doesn't conform to any of them.

I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks

When people talk about a machine being UNIX are they always specifically talking about being SUSv3 certified (which Wikipedia says Darwin it is) or are they just using the colloquial instead of saying it's UNIX-like, which is still the case with Mac OS X despite it's clear SUSv3 certification? I think it's the latter.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #94 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SudoNym View Post
 

 

Seriously.  The iPad is twice the computer compared with any ultrabook that the PC crowd is crowing about.

really? the iPad is a great tablet but isn't twice the computer of all ultrabooks.

post #95 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by singularity View Post

really? the iPad is a great tablet but isn't twice the computer of all ultrabooks.

I would say that it's even better than a PC when browsing the web.
post #96 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Perhaps similar, but it doesn't really matter because iOS is not certified UNIX.

You can read the dozens of requirements here:
http://www.opengroup.org/openbrand/testing/prodstds.htm

iOS doesn't conform to any of them.

I'm not seeing where Darwin is certified either, just Mountain Lion and Mavericks

When people talk about a machine being UNIX are they always specifically talking about being SUSv3 certified (which Wikipedia says Darwin it is) or are they just using the colloquial instead of saying it's UNIX-like, which is still the case with Mac OS X despite it's clear SUSv3 certification? I think it's the latter.

Darwin is not certified, but compatible with version 3. If it is open source who would have paid for the certification review? Anyway, the point I made was that iOS is not certified UNIX either as far as I know and my remarks were in reply to a post that ask when iOS was certified which was incorrectly answered by someone else as 2007. I think everyone agrees that iOS is UNIX or UNIX-like.

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post #97 of 160
Originally Posted by shepps View Post
No, apple didn't sell more computers.

 

Maybe read the article before outing yourself as uninformed.

Originally posted by Relic

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Originally posted by Relic

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post #98 of 160
The bottom line here is term personal computer came out to describe something one could personally own and use; not a communal device you had to rent or signup for time at a university or business to utilize. Everything that came after this is the evolution of the PC. From non-GUI to GUI, from desktops to notebooks, and from notebooks to handhelds are all part of this progression. I foresee the next progression in personal computing to be the wearable. As poor as they are even Samsung's Android-based smart watch counts as a personal computer.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #99 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

I would say that it's even better than a PC when browsing the web.

Eh, it has its plusses, but has its minuses too.
post #100 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The bottom line here is term personal computer came out to describe something one could personally own and use; not a communal device you had to rent or signup for time at a university or business to utilize. Everything that came after this is the evolution of the PC. From non-GUI to GUI, from desktops to notebooks, and from notebooks to handhelds are all part of this progression. I foresee the next progression in personal computing to be the wearable. As poor as they are even Samsung's Android-based smart watch counts as a personal computer.

People forget that smartphones are usually as powerful as desktop computers of 5-10 years ago. Most of my computing needs are handled quite easily by my smartphone.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #101 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

As poor as they are even Samsung's Android-based smart watch counts as a personal computer.

So my car is a PC? It has at least as many functions as the Samsung smart watch.

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post #102 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

I doubt any significant number of people only use their iPhone/iPod as their computing device.  That's why it's silly to count them when comparing with Windows pcs.

My hairdresser uses an iPhone exclusively. So do all her friends; no PC's in their homes. But yes, probably an insignificant number, though I do wonder how many hairdressers there are in the world and if the use a PC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) Zero for creating spreadsheet on my iPhone, but also zero for my iPad, MBP, iMac, and netbook.

I mostly create spreadsheets at home, on OSX. And edit them on my iPhone or iPad. I do make full use of the synching capabilities, something I don't see in PC-land, natively.
Quote:
2) For word processor documents I do this extensively on my iPhone, and pretty much no where else. I do this in the Notes apps where I have multiple notes covering many topics.

I do this extensively. The Notes app is simply great for keeping simple lists, copy/paste stuff. It all syncs across, I love it, Use it daily.
Quote:
5) Note that I mentioned I have a netbook. For sending and receiving Pings when testing my network labs

I thought you where using 2 iOS apps for this. They didn't live up to their expectation? Or does it have a RS-232 plug for Cisco maintenance?
post #103 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

 

I doubt any significant number of people only use their iPhone/iPod as their computing device.  That's why it's silly to count them when comparing with Windows pcs.

This is very short-sighted, the comparisons are certainly not silly.

 

Just take one look at the graph and you'll immediately see that iOS (as a mobile computing platform) has grown immensely.

 

Is it NOT obvious from these and many other indicators that in 3-5 years, mobile (phone-like) devices WILL replace a LARGE number of desktop PCs?!...albeit with mobile devices gaining power/speed/efficiency.

 

Also, I'm SURE there are a significant number of people who already use their smart phones INSTEAD of using their pc many times during the day.  It's just a matter of time...many PCs will find their way to the trash can and will not be replaced.

post #104 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Eh, it has its plusses, but has its minuses too.

I think that might be the reason we see so many issues with labeling around here. People focus on what it can't do and then decide that it therefore must not fall under the purview of the previous definition. From the OS standpoint the notebook did pretty well compared to the desktop but that is pretty rare when evolving technologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

People forget that smartphones are usually as powerful as desktop computers of 5-10 years ago. Most of my computing needs are handled quite easily by my smartphone.

I don't even consider performance as part of the definition, just its utility. It really is funny that the iPad was deemed "a large iPod Touch" but now that it's clear people are replacing their WinPCs with tablets for everyday use those goal posts have at least moved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

My hairdresser uses an iPhone exclusively. So do all her friends; no PC's in their homes. But yes, probably an insignificant number, though I do wonder how many hairdressers there are in the world and if the use a PC.

My roommate only had an iPhone for all his computing needs when I moved in. For the most part it was fine but he's a professor at a college which makes far from the best tool for creating tests.
Quote:
I thought you where using 2 iOS apps for this. They didn't live up to their expectation? Or does it have a RS-232 plug for Cisco maintenance?

I have my Mac to connect to my lab equipment. I never did buy the adapter to do this from my iPad or iPhone. There are simply too many files to be moved around that make using the "truck" better for this task than using my "compact car," as Jobs described the future of the PC.

PS: I wonder if the cost of those adapters have come down? I'll have to check but now it's time for The LEGO Movie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

So my car is a PC? It has at least as many functions as the Samsung smart watch.

I have yet to see a car that can send and receive emails, surf the web, and do all the other common personal computing tasks we're familiar with, but if yours can then I would say your car has a PC in it. But calling it a PC is pretty silly. My car certainly has a computer in it (I assume many computers) but it's not a personal computer. It's a personal vehicle, just like your WiFi router is a computer and your personal router but it is not a personal computer.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/14/14 at 11:30am

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #105 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

So my car is a PC? It has at least as many functions as the Samsung smart watch.


I have yet to see a car that can send and receive emails, surf the web, and do all the other common personal computing tasks we're familiar with, but if yours can then I would say your car has a PC in it. But calling it a PC is pretty silly. My car certainly has a computer in it (I assume many computers) but it's not a personal computer. It's a personal vehicle, just like your WiFi router is a computer and your personal router but it is not a personal computer.

 



The car has everything. a screen, text to voice, voice commands, nav, a hard drive, music, lots of setting to control the vehicle. It even connect to the cell phone just like the smart watch.. It even automatically contacts the dealership to make service appointment. Just because it has wheels why is it not the same as a smart watch which has a wrist band which is not normally found on a PC?

I'm just saying calling a smart watch a PC is just as silly in my opinion.
Edited by mstone - 2/14/14 at 12:55pm

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post #106 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

So my car is a PC? It has at least as many functions as the Samsung smart watch.


I have yet to see a car that can send and receive emails, surf the web, and do all the other common personal computing tasks we're familiar with, but if yours can then I would say your car has a PC in it. But calling it a PC is pretty silly. My car certainly has a computer in it (I assume many computers) but it's not a personal computer. It's a personal vehicle, just like your WiFi router is a computer and your personal router but it is not a personal computer.

 



The car has everything. a screen, text to voice, voice commands, nav, a hard drive, music, lots of setting to control the vehicle. It even connect to the cell phone just like the smart watch.. It even automatically contacts the dealership to make service appointment. Just because it has wheels why is it not the same as a smart watch which has a wrist band which is not normally found on a PC?

I'm just saying calling a smart watch a PC is just as silly in my opinion.

You're really missing the point and I am surprised by this. I have absolutely no ideas what wheels have to do with anything.

It's not a personal computing device for the same reason the multitude of Windows-based point-of-sale, vending, tm live ticket purchase, etc. are not personal computing devices. These embedded OSes have the capacity for networking, web browser, 3rd-party apps, etc., but it's use is specifically as a dedicated appliance, which is exactly how your car's OS(es) uses its computer(s).

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #107 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Eh, it has its plusses, but has its minuses too.

I can't find a minus.
post #108 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

You're really missing the point and I am surprised by this. I have absolutely no ideas what wheels have to do with anything.

It's not a personal computing device for the same reason the multitude of Windows-based point-of-sale, vending, tm live ticket purchase, etc. are not personal computing devices. These embedded OSes have the capacity for networking, web browser, 3rd-party apps, etc., but it's use is specifically as a dedicated appliance, which is exactly how your car's OS(es) uses its computer(s).

No I am just saying that if a smart watch is a PC then so is my car. It has almost all the same features as a smart watch. It is a $70K computer on wheels but it is not a PC and neither is a smart watch.

 

To me a PC is any device that can replace the need for a traditional computer for which the iPad barely qualifies. I can't imagine anyone going to the Apple store planning to buy a PC and end up walking out with an iPhone instead.


Edited by mstone - 2/14/14 at 1:35pm

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post #109 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

I can't find a minus.

1hmm.gif

The biggest one is that I find several sites that just don't behave well on iPad. The hardware (iPad 3) often doesn't seem to be up to the task. iOS Safari seems to crash a lot more. Maybe it's the site's fault, I don't know. But even my 2007 MBP handle same sites just fine.

Even in iOS 7, leave a tab alone long enough (seems half hour) and it has to reload when I revisit it, even in the same browsing session. I never get that on Windows or MacOS, it stayed loaded.

Downloaded file handling seems a bit limited.

I'd also like to "print" a page to PDF. But that need really only came up once on iOS, though I use it a lot on the desktop.
Edited by JeffDM - 2/14/14 at 1:51pm
post #110 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

I do this extensively. The Notes app is simply great for keeping simple lists, copy/paste stuff. It all syncs across, I love it, Use it daily.
 

My comment was directed more to full fledged, formal documents that would be sent to a client which is something you probably wouldn't do on an iPhone.  I understand that the notes app is good for lists, but chances are you wouldn't be composing a simple list on your pc anyways.  You would  probably would just use pen and paper.  

post #111 of 160

now we also including iPod touch on the "apple computer" list?

post #112 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No I am just saying that if a smart watch is a PC then so is my car. It has almost all the same features as a smart watch. It is a $70K computer on wheels but it is not a PC and neither is a smart watch.

To me a PC is any device that can replace the need for a traditional computer for which the iPad barely qualifies.

Just because your car has computers to adjust the suspension and ride, engine performance, HVAC, power steering, etc. and the car is your personal vehicle doesn't mean you can conflate the two to call it a personal computer. It's not, but a smartwatch or other wearable, like Google Glass, that has an SDK, 3rd-party apps, and many options for doing the augmenting the same tasks you may have done with your iPhone which has augmented takes you would have done on a "PC" is why they are are personal computers. Nothing you've stated about your car substitutes the primary tasks you used these other personal computers for.
Quote:
I can't imagine anyone going to the Apple store planning to buy a PC and end up walking out with an iPhone instead.

Of course not, because you've specifically chosen to word your comment to make Macs only viable definition for "PC" in that sentence which I find disingenuous.

Just like with people thinking iBeacon nodes can't be used with non-Apple devices despite it being BLE you won't see Apple call these personal computers but that's marketing. You also won't hear Apple calling their Macs PCs unless it's in reference to the market or actually has a marketing benefit. See: Mac v PC ads.


edit: I don't think Apple's rumored iWatch (or whatever they may bring to the wearable market) will be a personal computer (at least not right away), but rather an accessory device to aid in the usage of personal computing devices, like the iPhone, iPad and possibly the Mac. I don't expect it to try to be the everything device that the current lot of smartwatches are trying to be. They want to be a smartphone and watch and they fail at both, much like the MS Surface failing as both a notebook-esque and tablet "PC".

Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

My comment was directed more to full fledged, formal documents that would be sent to a client which is something you probably wouldn't do on an iPhone.  I understand that the notes app is good for lists, but chances are you wouldn't be composing a simple list on your pc anyways.  You would  probably would just use pen and paper.  

1) Full-fledged, formal documents are possible and can actually much larger than much more complex than they ever could be with Lotus 1-2-3 or MacWrite, but even if they weren't that does not mean these devices wouldn't be personal computing devices.

2) The Notes app is for lists? You do know there is an app built-into IOS and Mac OS X that are designed specifically for lists. It's called Reminders and works great. In Notes I have a lot of data. paragraphs upon paragraphs of data, includes charts and images I'm added to some of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

now we also including iPod touch on the "apple computer" list?

It's probably not ideal for being stationary, certainly has connectivity limited compared to the iPhone, and has 1/8th the display area of the iPad but why would you not count it if, presumably, you are counting the iPhone and iPad?
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/14/14 at 6:28pm

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post #113 of 160
If there is one thing I hate about Apple bashers it is the way they distort the facts and present them in such a way as to be dishonest and misleading.

The word "computer" is commonly accepted to mean "personal computer" as in Mac or PC. My car has a computer that manages all sorts of stuff, but it doesn't show up in a chart of "computers."

The title of this article is intentionally misleading and supported by childish logic. It is absurdly transparent and thoroughly unprofessional. It is fanboism and does nothing but provide ammunition to Apple bashers.

Change the headline. If you don't, the principal may force you to repeat second grade.
post #114 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by patpatpat View Post

Stupid comparison. You could just as easily say Samsung sold more computers than apple and Microsoft partners combined.
You could say that, but it would be wrong (not all Samsung phones are smartphones) and even if it were true it would be making a completely different point. The point this comparison makes has nothing to do with Android, or even that much to do with Apple and iOS. The article is about Microsoft, and how it's cash cow business, the desktop OS, is being overtaken by the mobile OS. Apple is just being used illustratively there, you could use Android instead if you wanted, but Apple is a nice one to use because of the companies' respective histories.

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post #115 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post
 
 but even if they weren't that does not mean these devices wouldn't be personal computing devices.

This description I am fine with. Personal Computers has had a implied definition since the first Apple and IBM versions. Early on the term PC was hijacked to mean Windows computers but now is again being repurposed to mean any device that can surf the web and send email. So far I don't think any of the smart watches can actually do that. I believe they all need to be connected to a smart phone.

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post #116 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

This description I am fine with. Personal Computers has had a implied definition since the first Apple and IBM versions. Early on the term PC was hijacked to mean Windows computers but now is again being repurposed to mean any device that can surf the web and send email. So far I don't think any of the smart watches can actually do that. I believe they all need to be connected to a smart phone.

OK, I just checked. Neither the Galaxy Gear nor the Sony SmartWatch 2 ship with web browsers, even though it's possible to install them since they running Android and have an app store, so mea culpa on thinking those devices do come with web browsers built-in.

I had thought it was included because I have seen the Sony SmartWatch 2 in the flesh. The person who showed it to me demoed it and was pretty happy about it (his son works for Sony). It had a web browser app installed, so I'd say that the included features, the app store, and his inclusion of a web browser — a necessary part of today's personal computing needs — would make that a personal computer for him… assuming he's actually using it as such and not just for demos.

Google Glass also has a "full" web browser.

Note: I want to be clear how foolish I think it is for a wrist-worn device to include such an app due to its many HW limitations. Perhaps if voice (or thought) commands get better that will change, but for now it's just as silly for put a personal computer into a watch as it was to slap Windows OS (desktop) into a tablet or MS thinking that the Surface would be a "no compromise" machine instead of an "all compromise" machine.

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post #117 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYancy View Post


The word "computer" is commonly accepted to mean "personal computer" as in Mac or PC. My car has a computer that manages all sorts of stuff, but it doesn't show up in a chart of "computers."
So for the rest of time, a computer is strictly defined as a Mac or Windows PC. So Linux boxes, Chromebooks will never ever be considered a "personal" computer. Ok.
post #118 of 160

Perhaps you didn't read the headline. Go check it again.

 

It lumps all of Apple's devices together and then compares this with "Microsoft's Windows PC partners." It does not say "all OS X machines." It does specifically say "PC" and it specifically says "Windows."

post #119 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by TYancy View Post

Perhaps you didn't read the headline. Go check it again.

It lumps all of Apple's devices together and then compares this with "Microsoft's Windows PC partners." It does not say "all OS X machines." It does specifically say "PC" and it specifically says "Windows."

If you're confused by the headline then read the article.

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post #120 of 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

My comment was directed more to full fledged, formal documents that would be sent to a client which is something you probably wouldn't do on an iPhone.  I understand that the notes app is good for lists, but chances are you wouldn't be composing a simple list on your pc anyways.  You would  probably would just use pen and paper.  

Ah ok, Word Processing then. No, I don't do that on my iPhone. I do use Numbers, work on them on the iPhone, iPad and my desktop. And yes, I have created spreadsheets solely on my iPhone and mailed them to people. Start to finish; it's a neat app. Useful.
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