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Samsung's Galaxy S5 said to ship with swipe-style fingerprint sensor in home button

post #1 of 103
Thread Starter 
In a bid to counter the popularity of the Touch ID system found in Apple's iPhone 5s, South Korean electronics giant Samsung will reportedly outfit the home button of its upcoming flagship Galaxy S5 handset with a swipe-style fingerprint reader.

Touch ID


Users will need to swipe the entire end of their finger -- from the tip to the base -- across the sensor in order to authenticate, according to a report from normally-reliable Samsung watchers SamMobile. The swipe must be performed at a "moderate speed" and it is necessary that the user keep their finger flat against the home button for the entire swipe, the publication added.

In addition to authentication, Samsung will allow users to link individual fingerprints to system actions such as launching a specific app. The company is also thought to have developed a "private mode" which can be accessed either with a fingerprint or via a PIN and allows users to keep personal documents, apps, and widgets hidden as well as a fingerprint-based web login system.

Whispers that Samsung would add some form of biometric security to its flagship handset grew louder soon after Apple unveiled the Touch ID system alongside the iPhone 5s last fall. Samsung mobile executive Lee Young Hee hinted in January that the company may choose iris recognition technology, but well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo poured cold water on that idea in a research note later in the month.

"Fingerprint is necessary for a star model," Kuo wrote at the time. "Because Apple's iPhone 5S and HTC's One Max have fingerprint, S5 the star model can't lack the function even [if] the solution (area type same as iPhone 5S's provided by Validity) is not as mature as iPhone 5S's."

The iPhone 5s's Touch ID has been widely praised since its debut, as much for its hardware implementation - the user's fingerprint is read as part of the normal process of pushing the home button --?as its usefulness.

The technology underpinning Touch ID was developed by biometrics firm Authentec, which was acquired by Apple in mid-2012. Samsung is believed to have turned to rival biometrics company Validity.
post #2 of 103
"Fingerprint is necessary for a star model," Kuo wrote at the time. "Because Apple's iPhone 5S and HTC's One Max have fingerprint, S5 the star model can't lack the function even [if] the solution (area type same as iPhone 5S's provided by Validity) is not as mature as iPhone 5S's."

I am so glad Apple did not adhere to the "bit as mature" statement for its fingerprint sensor!
post #3 of 103
Swiping your thumb across the device seems like it'll be less reliable than Touch ID. I see a few issues with it forthcoming.
post #4 of 103
Would be fun if it only were to accept your middle finger.
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post #5 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Users will need to swipe the entire end of their finger -- from the tip to the base -- across the sensor in order to authenticate, according to a report from normally-reliable Samsung watchers SamMobile. The swipe must be performed at a "moderate speed" and it is necessary that the user keep their finger flat against the home button for the entire swipe, the publication added.
 

 

This might be a good chance for me to share a tip on how to improve the accuracy of Touch-ID by "overtraining" the sensor. This is better explained at the Gibson Research Corporation website https://www.grc.com/intro.htm operated by Steve Gibson of the Security Now podcast, part of Leo Laport's TWiT network. Specifically, you want episode #440, Listener Feedback #182, of 28 Jan 14 (https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm). 

 

Just so no one gets any wrong ideas, this is not an advertisement and I have no connection to the TWiT network other than being a regular listener of their podcasts.

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post #6 of 103
I hope iOS8 allows some opening up of TouchID to third party apps. Would be great to unlock 1Password with TouchID, or put an extra authentication on my work email.

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post #7 of 103
Sounds like Samsung might be copying the HTC One Max which had a swipe fingerprint sensor that also allowed you to assign apps to it for quick access. It got trashed though because of location (back near camera), that it didn't work well and the app assignment feature was clunky (I think you could only assign 3 apps). I won't be surprised. to see Samsung do feature creep as a way of trying to provide differentiation and it will be a crap shoot if all the features actually work as intended. Either way they'll make it into the device because for Samsung that's the name of the game.

Thankfully with Apple we have this:
Quote:
http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/155086-apples-jonathan-ive-and-craig-federighi-the-complete-interview

Ive: We never would, but we could just stack up feature after feature after feature that would make for a long list but would make for a completely un-useful phone. [Touch ID] was something that I think we all felt was a very useful feature, and we started with a desire to solve the problem. We didn’t start opportunistically with 10 bits of technology that we could try to find a use for to add to our features list.
post #8 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

Sounds like Samsung might be copying the HTC One Max which had a swipe fingerprint sensor that also allowed you to assign apps to it for quick access. It got trashed though because of location (back near camera), that it didn't work well and the app assignment feature was clunky (I think you could only assign 3 apps). I won't be surprised. to see Samsung do feature creep as a way of trying to provide differentiation and it will be a crap shoot if all the features actually work as intended. Either way they'll make it into the device because for Samsung that's the name of the game.

Thankfully with Apple we have this:
Quote:
http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/155086-apples-jonathan-ive-and-craig-federighi-the-complete-interview

Ive: We never would, but we could just stack up feature after feature after feature that would make for a long list but would make for a completely un-useful phone. [Touch ID] was something that I think we all felt was a very useful feature, and we started with a desire to solve the problem. We didn’t start opportunistically with 10 bits of technology that we could try to find a use for to add to our features list.
Its a difference in philosophy. Apple will offer features it has decided the user needs and will try and give a mature feature when released, samsung will offer more and more features many which the end user may never use but leaves it up to the end user to use it or not as some people will find uses for some features and not use others.
post #9 of 103

Galaxy S5: The Most Amazing iPhone Yet.

 

And bigger.

 

post #10 of 103
OT: can someone explain why Apple is running ads on The Verge?

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post #11 of 103
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

OT: can someone explain why Apple is running ads on The Verge?

Why shouldn't they? 1confused.gif Outside of the rabid few I imagine they get a lot of visits from current and potential Apple customers.
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post #12 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post

This might be a good chance for me to share a tip on how to improve the accuracy of Touch-ID by "overtraining" the sensor. This is better explained at the Gibson Research Corporation website https://www.grc.com/intro.htm operated by Steve Gibson of the Security Now podcast, part of Leo Laport's TWiT network. Specifically, you want episode #440, Listener Feedback #182, of 28 Jan 14 (https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm). 

Just so no one gets any wrong ideas, this is not an advertisement and I have no connection to the TWiT network other than being a regular listener of their podcasts.
Thanks.
post #13 of 103

Ok, now I want to see all those people who were against a fingerprint scanner from Apple chiming in on how bad an idea it is for Android phones.  Where are all those "I don't trust Apple with my fingerprint" people now?  Are you more trusting of Samsung, a Korean company run by a convict?

post #14 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Why shouldn't they? 1confused.gif Outside of the rabid few I imagine they get a lot of visits from current and potential Apple customers.
I guess I can't remember the last time I saw an Apple ad on a tech site (or any site other than apple,com for that matter). That's why I found it odd.
post #15 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I guess I can't remember the last time I saw an Apple ad on a tech site (or any site other than apple,com for that matter). That's why I found it odd.

 

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. :wow:

post #16 of 103
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Originally Posted by RichL View Post

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif

And I for cat food. Considering my avatar is normally a picture of one, that's some serious Google Analytics going on when I don't use Ghostery... 1smoking.gif
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post #17 of 103
I am confused by Samsung's apparent surprise over Touch ID. Didn't we all figure out at least a year ago that Apple didn't buy Authentec for nothing, and deduce from rumors that the reader would be in the home button?

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post #18 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I guess I can't remember the last time I saw an Apple ad on a tech site (or any site other than apple,com for that matter). That's why I found it odd.

Ah, gotcha.
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post #19 of 103
It will suck. But it will be a "spec" that Samesung can put on a list so fanandroids won't feel insecure. Next we will hear how Android had it "first" and Apple doesn't innovate. Yada yada. Let's face it, these people are trying to compensate for inadequacies elsewhere.
post #20 of 103
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Originally Posted by RichL View Post

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif
So that's the type of websites you frequent. 1biggrin.gif
post #21 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I hope iOS8 allows some opening up of TouchID to third party apps. Would be great to unlock 1Password with TouchID, or put an extra authentication on my work email.

 

Opening it to 3rd party apps, probably won't happen.

 

What they'll probably do instead is expand it into the Keychain OS service. Any app that makes use of Keychain would indirectly utilize Touch ID authentication.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #22 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

I hope iOS8 allows some opening up of TouchID to third party apps. Would be great to unlock 1Password with TouchID, or put an extra authentication on my work email.

Opening it to 3rd party apps, probably won't happen.

What they'll probably do instead is expand it into the Keychain OS service. Any app that makes use of Keychain would indirectly utilize Touch ID authentication.

That is indeed what Federighi & Ive say:

Link provided by Rogifan:
http://www.businessweek.com/printer/articles/155086-apples-jonathan-ive-and-craig-federighi-the-complete-interview
Quote:
Federighi: Not to mention literally driving custom security processors into the silicon of our chip.

Ive: We did. I mean, I honestly understood only part of this. There are so many problems that need to be solved to enable this one big idea. This just is remarkable when you explain it—because I can’t. [LAUGHTER]

Federighi: Well, I mean, just to the broad point that you decide you want to do something like, “wouldn’t it be great if you could use your finger to unlock your phone or to make a purchase?” It sounds like a simple idea. But how many places could that become a bad idea because you failed to execute on it? We thought, “Well, one place where that could be a bad idea is somebody who writes a malicious app, somebody who breaks into your phone, starts capturing your fingerprint. What are they doing with that? Can they reuse that in some other location? Can they use it to spoof their way into other people’s phones?”

Well, that would be worse than never having done the feature at all if you did those things, right? And so you take that all the way to that spectrum, and we said, “My gosh, we’re going to have to build in our silicon a little island, a little enclave that’s walled off so that literally the main processor—no matter if you took ownership of the whole device and ran whatever code you wanted on the main processor—could not get that fingerprint out of there. Literally, the physical lines of communication in and out of the chip would not permit that ever to escape. It was something we considered fundamental to solving the overall problem.

Ive: When developing silicon, I think it’s probably the longest schedule that we work with. So you get to sense then if something as fundamental as that was architected into the process for the 5S, how long we have been working on this.
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post #23 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

Opening it to 3rd party apps, probably won't happen.

 

What they'll probably do instead is expand it into the Keychain OS service. Any app that makes use of Keychain would indirectly utilize Touch ID authentication.

Sure, that's what I meant, some system-wide authentication for all apps using the Keychain, that uses TouchID to validate.

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post #24 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ytseman3 View Post
 

Ok, now I want to see all those people who were against a fingerprint scanner from Apple chiming in on how bad an idea it is for Android phones.  Where are all those "I don't trust Apple with my fingerprint" people now?  Are you more trusting of Samsung, a Korean company run by a convict?

 

Actually all the previous implementations of finger print scanning on mobile devices (including Samsung phones) have been cases of frustration not convenience for most users.  The sensors were extremely fragile and after so much use would just start throwing out false positives. This was one area Apple had to solve themselves after buying Authentec.

 

So, those Android folks weren't necessarily wrong about it, it's just they're experience with the tech was less than stellar. But that's par for the course with new tech on devices that just have features shoved on to them.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #25 of 103

Rather incredible that Samsung admits their feature won’t be as good as Apple’s but they grew it in anyway, just because.

 

I can’t wait for the side-by-side videos of Samsung users and iPhone users authenticating their devices with fingerprint technology.

post #26 of 103
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

So that's the type of websites you frequent. 1biggrin.gif

Old chickens make the best soup. lol.gif
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post #27 of 103
As an iPhone 5s user I have to say that the fingerprint sensor works superbly. I didn't set up the fingerprint option until a few days after I received the phone (my first iPhone) and used the standard password system but once I did set it up I came to appreciate the elegance of the solution. Press the home button to wake. Keep the thumb on the button for a second or two and presto it unlocks. Simple, intuitive, and effective. Classic Apple engineering.
post #28 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Would be fun if it only were to accept your middle finger.

Samsung is too busy giving consumers, competitors and courts the middle finger.
post #29 of 103

I have used the swipe finger print censor on the Motorola Atrix product and it suck, there was times which it took up to 10 swipe before it actually recorded the swipe correctly and unlocked the phone. I am not sure if it was 100% an issue with the swipe technology or the fact that Android was spending too much time doing background task to notice I was trying to unlock the phone. This is the issue with Android some time it is busy doing things while you trying to do something else with the phone. I also attempted to use the finger print swipe technology on a HP laptop and had a similar experience, but again, as we all know Windows can get lost in itself doing background task.

 

Since Apple integrated their solution into the processors, you do not have to worry about the OS doing background task and not paying attention to you logging in. I suspect that Samsung will implement it the say way Motorola did and as the PC labtop guy did and it will not work well.

post #30 of 103

Remember when Fandroids said 64 bit was a gimmick?

Remember when Fandroids said Fingerprint was a gimmick and a privacy breach?

 

losers.

post #31 of 103
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Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

And I for cat food. Considering my avatar is normally a picture of one, that's some serious Google Analytics going on when I don't use Ghostery... 1smoking.gif


This is the reason that I am very concerned about Google especially given their demonstrated apathy toward human rights and willingness to cooperate with amoral governments.
post #32 of 103

I guess 80% of smart phone users are losers then.

post #33 of 103
No Connie. 50% of users focus on cheap garbage and just don't realize how great they can have it!! 20% just hate Apple for being a large and powerful company. The other 10% work for google or samdung. LOL.
post #34 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I guess I can't remember the last time I saw an Apple ad on a tech site (or any site other than apple,com for that matter). That's why I found it odd.

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif

Post some links please... Please! 1biggrin.gif
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post #35 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I guess I can't remember the last time I saw an Apple ad on a tech site (or any site other than apple,com for that matter). That's why I found it odd.

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif

Post some links please... Please! 1biggrin.gif

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post #36 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

I guess I can't remember the last time I saw an Apple ad on a tech site (or any site other than apple,com for that matter). That's why I found it odd.

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif

Post some links please... Please! 1biggrin.gif


  
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post #37 of 103
Ah, Mr. Applebaum, coming to the rescue. Especially funny since it's coming from you.
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post #38 of 103

This shows that Apple buying up AuthenTec was a smart move. They were the only company that offered the TouchID style fingerprint sensor that actually worked well.  Apple basically has a temporary monopoly on this technology and Samsung is forced to pursue second rate alternatives. It will take Samsung engineers a few more years to improve it. By that time, Apple will offer something even better than a fingerprint reader.

post #39 of 103

This is probably going to end up the same way as the Galaxy Gear. I have still yet to see anyone wearing one of those in the real world.

post #40 of 103
Originally Posted by Connie View Post
I guess 80% of smart phone users are losers then.

 

80% of smartphone users own iPhones. You’re not a user if the device sits in a drawer for its entire lifetime.

 

Get it through your heads; “marketshare” ≠ use share.

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Originally posted by Marvin

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