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Samsung's Galaxy S5 said to ship with swipe-style fingerprint sensor in home button - Page 2

post #41 of 103
This thing will need to work flawlessly, lest the press will come out in droves to ridicule it. If this is anything like those print readers on those $200 LaCie drives, I can write Samsung's obituary now.
post #42 of 103
Here's an interesting read....
Quote:
How big a thing could Touch ID mobile payment be? China alone hit $1.6 trillion last year

http://************/2014/02/18/how-big-a-thing-could-touch-id-mobile-payment-be-china-hit-1-6-trillion-last-year/


Seems like there might be an incentive to bring TouchID to lower-priced [all?] iDevices such as the iPhone 5C and iPad Mini (and whatever)

This may be a bet the farm moment... where Apple, if supply constraints allow, eats the $25 (or so) to include TouchID in all iDevices.
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post #43 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Amhran View Post

Swiping your thumb across the device seems like it'll be less reliable than Touch ID. I see a few issues with it forthcoming.

I suspect Samsung agrees with you but they'll never admit it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waybacmac View Post

This might be a good chance for me to share a tip on how to improve the accuracy of Touch-ID by "overtraining" the sensor. This is better explained at the Gibson Research Corporation website https://www.grc.com/intro.htm operated by Steve Gibson of the Security Now podcast, part of Leo Laport's TWiT network. Specifically, you want episode #440, Listener Feedback #182, of 28 Jan 14 (https://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm). 

Just so no one gets any wrong ideas, this is not an advertisement and I have no connection to the TWiT network other than being a regular listener of their podcasts.

I haven't been to Gibson's site in a decade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ytseman3 View Post

Ok, now I want to see all those people who were against a fingerprint scanner from Apple chiming in on how bad an idea it is for Android phones.  Where are all those "I don't trust Apple with my fingerprint" people now?  Are you more trusting of Samsung, a Korean company run by a convict?

I wasn't against the idea but based on the current tech I was cautious about the speed, accuracy and convenience that could be had from a fingerprint scanner over inputting a simple 4-digit PIN. If Samsung is still using a swipe method I have doubts it will be even close to Apple's solution, not to mention other potential issues like where and how the data will stored on the device and if you can replace the sensor in the S5 to override the security.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

I am confused by Samsung's apparent surprise over Touch ID. Didn't we all figure out at least a year ago that Apple didn't buy Authentec for nothing, and deduce from rumors that the reader would be in the home button?

It's hard to say. A lot of their acquisitions take years to develop. I surely didn't think Touch ID would work as brilliantly as it did despite knowing that Apple wouldn't have released it if worked poorly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Sure, that's what I meant, some system-wide authentication for all apps using the Keychain, that uses TouchID to validate.

This is definitely doable but I think there is plenty of work involved to so the OS knows what app is open and which screen is displayed so it can pull the proper passcode from it's secure DB once you authentic with Touch ID again.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #44 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I haven't been to Gibson's site in a decade.

Neither has Gibson; have you seen the layout? That is soooo 1994
post #45 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"Fingerprint is necessary for a star model, because Apple's iPhone 5S and HTC's One Max have fingerprint, S5 the star model can't lack the function even the solution (area type same as iPhone 5S's provided by Validity) is not as mature as iPhone 5S's."

--Ming-Chi Kuo, AppleInsider's favorite analyst

This is exactly how Samsung works. "They have it, so we gotta add it to our feature checklist."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #46 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Neither has Gibson; have you seen the layout? That is soooo 1994

OMG! It hasn't changed!!!

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #47 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Sure, that's what I meant, some system-wide authentication for all apps using the Keychain, that uses TouchID to validate.

This is definitely doable but I think there is plenty of work involved to so the OS knows what app is open and which screen is displayed so it can pull the proper passcode from it's secure DB once you authentic with Touch ID again.

I think that using TouchID for iTunes Store purchases is the test bed and proof of concept for Online Payments.

Apple can monitor, control and observe both sides of the transaction and mitigate any problems or deficiencies. After 6-12 months of refinement, Apple could expand the TouchID service as you note...

And, Apple could have a proven, secure purchasing solution for merchants in place -- using the iTunes Store as the transaction processor and credit provider/guarantor.


Before too long, the checkout clerk will ask something like: "Would you like a BMW with your fries?"
Edited by Dick Applebaum - 2/18/14 at 9:52am
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post #48 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

Remember when apple fanboys said that 3.5" was the perfect size?
Remember when apple fanboys said the notification center was useless?
Remember when apple fanboys said 3rd party multitasking was useless?

There's hypocrisy on both sides.

Don't remember any of them as the "consensus"/majority thinking.

Watch the media fawn over Sammy's "innovation" while chiding Apple on its "gimmick."
post #49 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post
 

Remember when apple fanboys said that 3.5" was the perfect size?

Remember when apple fanboys said the notification center was useless?

Remember when apple fanboys said 3rd party multitasking was useless?

 

There's hypocrisy on both sides.

 

Indeed I agree.  There is just more hypocrisy on the Android side.  And it's not just the rabid fanbois - it's the media as well.  Look at every time apple releases a new product or feature.  They rail on it or say it's just a big iPod or whatever.  Bottom line is Apple thinks its innovations completely through and is not just responding to nor even overly caring about what others do.  That is why companies, for the most part, follow Apple's lead, with Samsung being the most blatant in that regard.

post #50 of 103

My Copycat Sensor just started its piercing wail!

post #51 of 103

Quote:

The sensor itself works in a swipe manner, which means that you would need to swipe the entire pad of your finger, from base to tip, across the home key to register your fingerprint properly. Also, you would need to keep your finger flat against the home key and swipe at a moderate speed or else it won’t recognise your fingerprint.

 

Here's the source article that describes how Samsung's print reader will supposedly work. Maybe it's just me, but how's this any different than any number of other biometric sensors that have been installed with laptop computers over the past decade? Difference here is that Samsung plans a swipe sensor on a one-handed mobile device. At least HTC tried to address the ergonomic awkwardness of this by installing the sensor on the back of the phone.  Samsung just seems to be copying Apple by integrating the sensor into the home button, but not thinking through the ergonomic issues of trying to push and swipe the button in one motion.

 

The brilliance of TouchID is that it works using the same motion that you would normally use to push the home button. Just leave your finger on the button for a second longer, and the phone unlocks and switches on. Because it's more convenient than just a passcode, more people will keep their phones secured.  It's certainly not perfect (I have had to retrain the TouchID sensor a couple of times when it started giving me more read errors), but still far superior to the other biometric inputs that I've used over the years.

 

But, lest we accuse Samsung of just copying everybody, there IS some innovation in the offing ...

 

Quote:
We forgot to mention, the Galaxy S5 will show real-time image of your fingerprint on the display as you swipe your finger over the sensor.

 

Yeah, when unlocking my phone, I just pine away and curse at the ghost of Steve Jobs that Apple does not let me look at my fingerprint on-screen!

post #52 of 103

Oh my, I'm so happy and excited about these news.

I sense so much fail.

I can't wait for the unveiling so I can troll on android fan boards.

 

Here is how Samsung describes it :

 

The sensor itself works in a swipe manner, which means that you would need to swipe the entire pad of your finger, from base to tip, across the home key to register your fingerprint properly. Also, you would need to keep your finger flat against the home key and swipe at a moderate speed or else it won’t recognise your fingerprint.

 

So basically, it won't work if you are holding the phone and putting your finger sideways.

post #53 of 103

Also this :

 

We forgot to mention, the Galaxy S5 will show real-time image of your fingerprint on the display as you swipe your finger over the sensor.

 

How ostentatious. They don't even know how to make something invisible. I can't wait for the quick toggle in the notification pane to disable the scanner!

 

Christmas is coming!

post #54 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif

LOL. You know how advertising networks track you, right? 1wink.gif

http://www.itworld.com/it-management/354803/whose-tracking-you-across-web-even-ad-industry-don-t-know

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #55 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Here is how Samsung describes it :

"...from base to tip..."

Sounds nasty 1wink.gif

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #56 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Also this :

We forgot to mention, the Galaxy S5 will show real-time image of your fingerprint on the display as you swipe your finger over the sensor.

How ostentatious. They don't even know how to make something invisible. I can't wait for the quick toggle in the notification pane to disable the scanner!

Christmas is coming!

Are you serious?! If so, it indicates it's going to be a flashy but useless feature.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #57 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

Remember when Fandroids said 64 bit was a gimmick?
Remember when Fandroids said Fingerprint was a gimmick and a privacy breach?

losers.

I could not tell what the official talking points were from the Fandroids: wasn't Android already 64-bit or was 64-bit useless for smartphones, or was Apple's 64-bit fake? Or, was it real 64-bit and awesome because "Samsung made the A7"? I mean, I wish they would agree on one anti-Apple position, so I wouldn't have to play wack-a-mole with all these disposable arguments.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #58 of 103
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post
I mean, I wish they would agree on one anti-Apple position, so I wouldn't have to play wack-a-mole with all these disposable arguments.

 

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything."

Mark Twain

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #59 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post
 

 

Opening it to 3rd party apps, probably won't happen.

 

What they'll probably do instead is expand it into the Keychain OS service. Any app that makes use of Keychain would indirectly utilize Touch ID authentication.

 

I hope they open up Keychain a bit more.  I think iCloud Keychain is both tremendous and useless.

 

I signed up for a Kickstarter account, and given this weekends news I fortunately had Safari create a password for me.  It works great, until you download the Kickstarter app and can't log into it, because you don't know the password.

 

Had the same problem with my Nest thermostat and their app this weekend.

 

If they can allow authorized apps to see the passwords in iCloud Keychain, it will be a much more useful feature.

post #60 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonMG View Post

No Connie. 50% of users focus on cheap garbage and just don't realize how great they can have it!! 20% just hate Apple for being a large and powerful company. The other 10% work for google or samdung. LOL.

My sister in law has just got hooked on Candy Crush Saga as she has been playing it on her daughters iPhone who is in hospital having a bone marrow transplant. I said to her you can put that on your phone, a Galaxy something or other that she has only ever used as a feature phone. It is less than a year old but runs Android 2.3. I spent about 10 minutes or so setting up a Google account for her only to find that Candy Crush isn't in the particular App Store on her phone. She also wanted Facebook putting on so I tried downloading it over her 3G connection as she does not have wifi at home. After about 6 attempts which timed out every time, I gave up. This is my only experience of using Android 2.3 and hopefully my last. I only have an iPhone 4 and previously an iPhone 3GS but the experience on both is light years apart from using her Galaxy phone.
post #61 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post


My sister in law has just got hooked on Candy Crush Saga as she has been playing it on her daughters iPhone who is in hospital having a bone marrow transplant. I said to her you can put that on your phone, a Galaxy something or other that she has only ever used as a feature phone. It is less than a year old but runs Android 2.3. I spent about 10 minutes or so setting up a Google account for her only to find that Candy Crush isn't in the particular App Store on her phone. She also wanted Facebook putting on so I tried downloading it over her 3G connection as she does not have wifi at home. After about 6 attempts which timed out every time, I gave up. This is my only experience of using Android 2.3 and hopefully my last. I only have an iPhone 4 and previously an iPhone 3GS but the experience on both is light years apart from using her Galaxy phone.

 

She doesn't have a Galaxy phone if she doesn't have the Google Play Store on board.  Samsung makes a lot of junk, especially outside its key Galaxy brand, so I'm not surprised by the experience.

post #62 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Are you serious?! If so, it indicates it's going to be a flashy but useless feature.

Of course I'm serious. I copied that text from Sammobile, and I'm pretty sure it's from a reliable source.

Sounds too good to be true, doesn't it? I can't imagine people actually using this.
post #63 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I hope they open up Keychain a bit more.  I think iCloud Keychain is both tremendous and useless.

I signed up for a Kickstarter account, and given this weekends news I fortunately had Safari create a password for me.  It works great, until you download the Kickstarter app and can't log into it, because you don't know the password.

Had the same problem with my Nest thermostat and their app this weekend.

If they can allow authorized apps to see the passwords in iCloud Keychain, it will be a much more useful feature.

Yes, it'll probably be included on iOS 8. It has just been introduced a few months ago. Let it a little time me it'll get a lot more useful.
post #64 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by wakefinance View Post

She doesn't have a Galaxy phone if she doesn't have the Google Play Store on board.  Samsung makes a lot of junk, especially outside its key Galaxy brand, so I'm not surprised by the experience.

It is definitely a Samsung Galaxy phone - looking at images on the internet it is the Galaxy Fame. I don't think it had the full Google Play Store that is on my Galaxy Tab 2 7, but that is running Android 4.2. This is the first time I have tried Android 2.3 or whatever it is running and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Even my sister in law is now saying she will have to get an iPhone.
post #65 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

This thing will need to work flawlessly, lest the press will come out in droves to ridicule it. If this is anything like those print readers on those $200 LaCie drives, I can write Samsung's obituary now.

You're living in a dream world. The press will cream their jeans over this "innovative technology", even if it takes an average of 20 swipes to work and sends actual pictures of your fingerprints to Google. Meanwhile, Apple "didn't invent fingerprint recognition", and how could anyone "trust Apple with their fingerprints" anyway?
post #66 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I haven't been to Gibson's site in a decade.
 

 

It's good for randomly generated passwords, about the only thing I have ever used it for.

 

Now back to the topic at hand (or fingerprint), here is another fine example of Apple's "lack of innovation" as opposed to Samsung being truly innovative for the trolls to latch on to.

 

The Google delusions are strong.

Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #67 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crosslad View Post


It is definitely a Samsung Galaxy phone - looking at images on the internet it is the Galaxy Fame. I don't think it had the full Google Play Store that is on my Galaxy Tab 2 7, but that is running Android 4.2. This is the first time I have tried Android 2.3 or whatever it is running and it wasn't a pleasant experience. Even my sister in law is now saying she will have to get an iPhone.

Quick search shows the fame runs Android 4.1, although it seems due to the low specs, it can't run a lot of the newer apps.  It's not exactly a fair comparison though.  You're talking about a $150 phone, made with reduced specs in mind, compared to a $600 phone.  Imagine running Candy Crush or any newer app on a 3Gs.  You'd probably have a similar experience.

 

Also the 3g connection on her phone has more to do with her service as opposed to the actual phone.  Yes the phone itself can create some variance, but for the most part it's probably the service.

post #68 of 103
Wonder what it looks like! Is it like the iPhone 6 shape or like the Galaxy S3 or S4? I know the screen resolution is UHD - 2540 X 1920? Is it still plastic or did they make it out of metal?

Interesting to find out!
post #69 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

OT: can someone explain why Apple is running ads on The Verge?

2hg8fav.jpg

In order to attract people to their website.
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post #70 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif

I've never dated a website.
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post #71 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

And I for cat food. Considering my avatar is normally a picture of one, that's some serious Google Analytics going on when I don't use Ghostery... 1smoking.gif

Older women dating cat food?
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post #72 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post

OT: can someone explain why Apple is running ads on The Verge?

2hg8fav.jpg

 

They are hoping to sell iPads to readers of the Verge, in order to increase profits.

post #73 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

All I get on AI is ads for older women dating websites. 1eek.gif

And I for cat food. Considering my avatar is normally a picture of one, that's some serious Google Analytics going on when I don't use Ghostery... 1smoking.gif

 

When you use Ghostery, the website doesn't make any money.  

post #74 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Watch the media fawn over Sammy's "innovation" while chiding Apple on its "gimmick."

 

 

The media is unfair to Apple.  Just like Wall Street and Fandroids.

post #75 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClemyNX View Post

Yes, it'll probably be included on iOS 8. It has just been introduced a few months ago. Let it a little time me it'll get a lot more useful.

You can recover your passwords from the keychain using the keychain app on OSX or in iOS 7:

Settings > Safari > passwords & autofill > Saved Passwords

Not elegant but not exactly hard.
post #76 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by theotherphil View Post


You can recover your passwords from the keychain using the keychain app on OSX or in iOS 7:

Settings > Safari > passwords & autofill > Saved Passwords

Not elegant but not exactly hard.

I didn't know that, thanks.

 

It's not a great workaround, but it is a workaround of sorts.

post #77 of 103

It looks like Samsung and the media are trying to implement Apple's fingerprint sensor technology in two steps.  First, on the home button but with swiping method.  If it does not work or does not work as well as TouchID, change it to touch method.  Then Kuo will pronounce that Samsang has 'matured'.

post #78 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

I didn't know that, thanks.

 

It's not a great workaround, but it is a workaround of sorts.

 

That is not a work around, it is the way it has to be - it is the ONLY secure way of saving and storing passwords. Only the original source is allowed access to a previously saved password. Period. There is no way for Apple to securely verify that a specific website is made by the same person that made the app and therefor could automatically serve up a previously stored password. That would/could lead to a huge security hole. 

 

Even on the Mac, this is how it's done. Just because the Keychain saved my iCloud password in the System Preferences, doesn't mean Safari can automatically grab it when I go to the iCloud website. The password must be entered and saved from within Safari as well.

 

As a someone previously stated, there is a way to gain access to that password, just copy and paste it if needed. Yes, it is a little inconvenient, but you DO NOT want this type of built-in automation. Manually entering your password and saving it at each access point is much, much more secure.

Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #79 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by SudoNym View Post

When you use Ghostery, the website doesn't make any money.  
And couln't you conclude that I don't use Ghostery all the time... like when I visit AI, or Anand, or Arstechnic... and that's just the beginning of the "A" list figuratively.

I decide who gets my ad money when visiting a site, please explain why that's bad... 1rolleyes.gif
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #80 of 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercow View Post

Quick search shows the fame runs Android 4.1, although it seems due to the low specs, it can't run a lot of the newer apps.  It's not exactly a fair comparison though.  You're talking about a $150 phone, made with reduced specs in mind, compared to a $600 phone.  Imagine running Candy Crush or any newer app on a 3Gs.  You'd probably have a similar experience.

Also the 3g connection on her phone has more to do with her service as opposed to the actual phone.  Yes the phone itself can create some variance, but for the most part it's probably the service.

My mistake it is the Galaxy Ace - too many Galaxy models on market. Her 3G connection was on full bars. Also the point I was trying to make, irrespective of the model, is that Google counts this phone as being one if the 80% market share. The fact is that it is next to useless as a smartphone and is little better than a feature phone.
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