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Advertisers criticize Apple for holding back customer targeting data in iAd campaigns

post #1 of 90
Thread Starter 
Apple's refusal to open its vast trove of purchase data and demographic information to advertisers is said to be the principal factor inhibiting the growth of the company's nascent iAd platform.

iAd


Industry insiders likened Apple's strict data limitations to forcing "the best-looking girl at the party...to wear a bag over her head," according to a Tuesday report from Advertising Age. Apple offers advertisers the ability to target customers based on geography, purchase history, and media interests, but refuses to share the underlying data.

Compounding the issue, the data Apple does reveal cannot be fed into many agencies' automated ad-buying platforms. Apple's user tracking is not based on web browser cookies, so advertisers are unable to mix-and-match that information with data from other sources that use cookies to identify users.

Competitors like Google, Facebook, and Yahoo give advertisers a much deeper level of insight, though some say Apple's data is still the most valuable. Apple is "one of the best in terms of data quality and accuracy," AdMobius co-founder Dan Grigorovici said, "but I think Google is a little more open."

It is unclear how this might change if iAd's rumored shift to a real-time bidding system comes through. Such a change could lead to increased opportunities for advertisers to automate their iAd buys, making the service more efficient and financially viable for smaller advertisers.

Advertisers also complained about the frigidity of Apple's iAd sales team, a problem in the clubby advertising industry. Perhaps in a sign that Apple has not yet decided exactly what to do with the $250 million per year iAd business, it is thought that the company has not even given its staff sales targets.

"It's not their main focus to tell everyone in the world how amazing advertising in iAd is," GroupM executive Cary Tilds told the publication. "It's just not as loud."

The complaints come on the heels of an iAd reorganization that has seen the team's focus shift to selling advertisements on iTunes Radio, a directive thought to have come directly from software and services chief Eddy Cue. The company brought in former terrestrial radio executive Michael Pallad to head that team in December.
post #2 of 90

Breaking: Apple doesn’t share their users’ information with third parties; third parties upset

 

Who gives a frick? This is only good news for Apple.

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post #3 of 90
1) In the long run, when people realise why this is a better practise than what Google does Apple will be the one to remain standing. Google can fall for all I care.

2) Why does this iPad look like it's screen is about to pop out? Or is the user completely immersing himself with the content¿
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post #4 of 90

I have yet to see an iAd.

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post #5 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Who gives a frick? This is only good news for Apple.

Perhaps there are Google advocates on this forum that need to see the light? "I'll allow it"
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post #6 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I have yet to see an iAd.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/iad-gallery/id424733624?mt=8
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post #7 of 90

"best looking girl... wearing a bag... frigidity..."

 

I can't decide if the author is being coy, or inadvertently projecting their own issues.  :p 

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Quality isn't expensive... it's priceless.

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post #8 of 90
These issues might be fatal for a company that makes most of its revenue from ads. Apple is not that company.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #9 of 90
Apple is attracting major advertisers.

Google and Facebook are promoting garbage spam ads on the order of "One Weird Trick" which rely on pervasive privacy trampling.

Ad agency shills rush to the media to tell things from their perspective: Apple is doomed because it doesn%u2019t give them full access to all user details.

Sounds like the iTunes stories that were written ten years ago, complaining that Apple would fail because it wasn%u2019t giving the labels everything they asked for, including over the top DRM and spyware capabilities.

Meanwhile, Apple%u2019s iAd brought in a sixth of Facebook%u2019s mobile ad revenue in 2013, and that%u2019s before iTunes Radio really started to gain traction.
post #10 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Perhaps there are Google advocates on this forum that need to see the light? "I'll allow it"

What light should those Google advocates see then? Do you even know what is talked about here? With deeper insights it is meant that advertisers can get aggregated none-personally identifiable information from Google. For things like trend analysis and stuff like that.
If you ever read Google's privacy policy you would have known this. No personal data is shared without consent (exceptions: domain admins if necessary, external processing and legal reasons, which are the same exceptions as in Apple's policy) but what they can do is this: "We may share aggregated, non-personally identifiable information publicly and with our partners – like publishers, advertisers or connected sites."

Hate it when people criticize something without actually knowing what it is about. I know a lot of people on this forum see Google as evil, but let's be rational shall we...
post #11 of 90
Looking forward to the CNBC spin on this one.
post #12 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

2) Why does this iPad look like it's screen is about to pop out? Or is the user completely immersing himself with the content¿

It's not easy containing those big bottomed Brazilian girls. lol.gif
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post #13 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Apple is attracting major advertisers.

They're the only ones that can afford to advertise to everyone instead of a specific demographic.
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post #14 of 90
I would much rather advertisers don't have access to my details thank you very much.

Let's put it this way... I am not governed by advertising I'm governed by my needs or wants which often doesn't involve companies these advertisers are trying to push.

Sure I'll look through the Mitre10 or Bunnings catalogue to see if they have specials on what I'm looking for but that's it. I'm not going to be persuaded by some crap.

That being said if advertisers actually pushed iAds to its limits and gave us something cool instead of some dumb video for Clash of the Titans that I've seen a million times before (crap game by the way) then maybe I'd look at the ads more often and they'd make more money even if I don't purchase the product.
post #15 of 90
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post
"Perhaps in a sign that Apple has not yet decided exactly what to do with the $250 million per year iAd business, it is thought that the company has not even given its staff sales targets."

 

I'm convinced that iAd was designed for TV from day 1.

That would explain lots of iAd's history, right up to today.

We won't see what iAd can really do until Apple rolls out its long-term TV strategy.

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post #16 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post


Ad agency shills rush to the media to tell things from their perspective: Apple is doomed because it doesn%u2019t give them full access to all user details.

I'm sorry we know this isn't true because they don't. Actually at least Google doesn't provide full access to all user details, no idea about Facebook though. Google's privacy policy doesn't allow for personal information to be shared without specific opt-in consent (exceptions: domain admins, external processing and legal reasons which are the same exceptions as in Apple's policy).

What it concerns here is insight in aggregated non-personal identifiable information which Google is allowed to share. More open as in sharing aggragated anonymous data partners can work with.
Edited by Chipsy - 2/18/14 at 11:12am
post #17 of 90
Apple should just ban any advertising platform from iOS except iAds 1wink.gif
post #18 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryn Lowe View Post

I'm not going to be persuaded by some crap.

I agree with you for the most part, there are products I've purchased that I had no idea existed if it wasn't for a advertisement. I don't particularly like advertisements, but I understand that it's essential for new businesses.
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post #19 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
 

I'm convinced that iAd was designed for TV from day 1.

That would explain lots of iAd's history, right up to today.

We won't see what iAd can really do until Apple rolls out its long-term TV strategy.

I think iAd was designed for mobile which is why iAd Developer projects are built with Javascript. 

 

Perhaps Apple's rumored iTV will also run JS, who knows?

 

Or maybe FCP X will get iAd developer functionality to produce video advertisements.

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post #20 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Perhaps there are Google advocates on this forum that need to see the light? "I'll allow it"

But your honor!
post #21 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Google and Facebook are promoting garbage spam ads on the order of "One Weird Trick" which rely on pervasive privacy trampling.

 

It's been shown time and time again that Google doesn't reveal personal information to advertisers.  I don't know whether or not Facebook does, but I doubt they would since that personal information is the base of the company's value.  A company won't relinquish its one and only resource.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

Ad agency shills rush to the media to tell things from their perspective: Apple is doomed because it doesn%u2019t give them full access to all user details.

 

I don't see any doom and gloom in this article, but feel free to inject so you can write another scandalous piece on Apple's latest "enemy."

post #22 of 90
Good. Keep the ads value lower (not zero, just less) but keep my privacy too. Apple doesn't depend on selling personal info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipsy View Post

What light should those Google advocates see then? Do you even know what is talked about here? With deeper insights it is meant that advertisers can get aggregated none-personally identifiable information from Google. For things like trend analysis and stuff like that.
If you ever read Google's privacy policy you would have known this. No personal data is shared without consent (exceptions: domain admins if necessary, external processing and legal reasons, which are the same exceptions as in Apple's policy) but what they can do is this: "We may share aggregated, non-personally identifiable information publicly and with our partners – like publishers, advertisers or connected sites."

Hate it when people criticize something without actually knowing what it is about. I know a lot of people on this forum see Google as evil, but let's be rational shall we...

"aggregated, non-personally identifiable information" is pseudo-comforting language, carefully chosen to placate if you don't think too hard about it or follow the money.

Google is forming detailed profiles on you and every user they can. They may identify you with a number, username, email address and YouTube name, rather than your real name (which they probably also know) but it's still specifically tied to you. They don't just know that "some 27-year old male" searched for a divorce lawyer. They know that one specific one did--the same one that reviews his favorite restaurants on the west side of Chicago, and posts videos to YouTube from a California trip once a year, and has a given list of friends and family, and has a certain political leaning, and owes money on both a mortgage and a car loan, and fits the statistical profile of someone at risk for gambling problems.

That's on a whole different scale than what Apple collects, and is worth a ton of monetary value. And then Google shares more of that with advertisers than Apple does. And makes it less easy to opt out. In fact, Google has been caught intentionally bypassing people's opt out (Safari cookies).

When I'm using a web site and Google-served ads are showing me things based on searches I did two weeks ago, while iAds are not.... yes, I hope Google tolerators see the light more and accept less of that kind of tracking. (I point the same finger at Facebook.) That's to say nothing of cases where your data is shared OUTSIDE the official privacy policy: by bad employees or by hackers, for example. An unavoidable side effect if deep tracking is where your income comes from. Privacy is the enemy to Google's business model.

I'm much more comfortable being the customer who pays for something, instead of the product being sold.
Edited by nagromme - 2/18/14 at 11:24am
post #23 of 90

Traduction :

Apple respect its users privacy and dont overshare, unlike Google and Facebook.

 

Ok, not a negative.

post #24 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post

Traduction :
Apple respect its users privacy and dont overshare, unlike Google and Facebook.

Ok, not a negative.

Did you mean 'translation'?
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post #25 of 90

Thank you Apple!

Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
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post #26 of 90
That's some news that can't be downplayed!
post #27 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post
 

I think iAd was designed for mobile which is why iAd Developer projects are built with Javascript. 

 

Perhaps Apple's rumored iTV will also run JS, who knows?

 

Or maybe FCP X will get iAd developer functionality to produce video advertisements.

 

Apple uses their SproutCore Javascript framework in lots of things, mobile and otherwise.

Here's an AI post from 2009 about Javascript in iTunes LP and iTunes Extras:

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/09/09/14/apples_tunekit_itunes_lp_format_appears_aimed_at_apple_tv

 

Not sure, but I don't think iTunes Extras runs on Apple TV yet, but it's HDTV-ready.

Anyway, the end result is similar to DVD / BD "special features" content but it's easier to create that content.

Seems like a natural fit for iAd + Apple TV.

 

And, unfortunately, I think ads will be a key enabler for Apple's long-term TV strategy.

And that means iAd.  Non-skippable iAd content that you're forced to interact with to watch the rest of your content.

(Unless you pay some kind of monthly fee, in which case there wouldn't be any ads.)

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post #28 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Good. Keep the ads value lower (not zero, just less) but keep my privacy too. Apple doesn't depend on selling personal info.
"aggregated, non-personally identifiable information" is pseudo-comforting language, carefully chosen to placate if you don't think too hard about it or follow the money.

Google is forming detailed profiles on you and every user they can. They may identify you with a number, username, email address and YouTube name, rather than your real name (which they probably also know) but it's still specifically tied to you. They don't just know that "some 27-year old male" searched for a divorce lawyer. They know that one specific one did--the same one that reviews his favorite restaurants on the west side of Chicago, and posts videos to YouTube from a California trip once a year, and has a given list of friends and family, and has a certain political leaning, and owes money on both a mortgage and a car loan, and fits the statistical profile of someone at risk for gambling problems.

That's on a whole different scale than what Apple collects, and is worth a ton of monetary value. And then Google shares more of that with advertisers than Apple does. And makes it less easy to opt out. In fact, Google has been caught intentionally bypassing people's opt out (Safari cookies).

When I'm using a web site and Google-served ads are showing me things based on searches I did two weeks ago, while iAds are not.... yes, I hope Google tolerators see the light more and accept less of that kind of tracking. (I point the same finger at Facebook.) That's to say nothing of cases where your data is shared OUTSIDE the official privacy policy: by bad employees or by hackers, for example. An unavoidable side effect if deep tracking is where your income comes from. Privacy is the enemy to Google's business model.

I'm much more comfortable being the customer who pays for something, instead of the product being sold.

 

Yes, Google does have that information.  No, Google does not share that information.

post #29 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Apple doesn't depend on selling personal info.

When I'm using a web site and Google-served ads are showing me things based on searches I did two weeks ago, while iAds are not.... yes, I hope Google tolerators see the light more and accept less of that kind of tracking. (I point the same finger at Facebook.)

I'm much more comfortable being the customer who pays for something, instead of the product being sold.

Apple doesn't sell personal information but here is the thing, neither does Google (no idea about Facebook though). Google certainly keeps track of a lot things, no doubt about it (but read Apple's privacy policy you will be surprised what they collect). Google does create a profile of you (only from things you do when logged in) but this information isn't sold. Targeted advertising is not the same as selling. The advertiser selects a target audience and Google does the targeting (Google determines which ad to show you, at no point does the advertiser get to see personal information).

Regarding whether it is connected to a name. If you are logged in to your Google account, then the things you do are connected to your name. You can see this in Google Dashboard. If you are not logged in it is not. Then it uses cookieID or anonymous identifier to determine which ad to show you. This data is only kept for a certain period (a couple of months). The things you do when logged in are kept for a very long time, but things like searches are user deletable.

Everyone has the choice to use whatever he/she feels most comfortable with. Personally I'm more concerned about actual data brokers who do sell personal information and collect this from all over the internet then I am about Google.
Edited by Chipsy - 2/18/14 at 11:59am
post #30 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Industry insiders likened Apple's strict data limitations to forcing "the best-looking girl at the party...to wear a bag over her head," 

 

Funny that these "insiders" think they are being invited to the "right" party in the first place.  Idiots.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PScooter63 View Post
 

"best looking girl... wearing a bag... frigidity..."

 

I can't decide if the author is being coy, or inadvertently projecting their own issues.  :p 


Serious issues.  If anything, it's more like the best-looking girl is at the party that these "industry insiders" can only see from the outside of a building, looking through a window while standing on top of an old milk box.

post #31 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post
 

Apple uses their SproutCore Javascript framework in lots of things, mobile and otherwise.

 

Does Apple still use SproutCore? I thought I read somewhere they bailed on it after the lead developer left. Can't find it now...

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post #32 of 90

I mean, $250M is what?  A few hours of revenue for Apple overall?  Google's activities are different because they are an advertising company.  Apple could lose all that $250M per year of revenue, and barely notice.  Advertising revenue for Google, OTOH, represents 90% of their total.

 

EDIT: Just to put this in perspective, Apple's revenue for 2013 was $55.60 billion.


Edited by AaronJ - 2/18/14 at 12:03pm
post #33 of 90

IF Apple & Apple fans want iAd to survive (READ: kick google where it hurts MOST$$), then they have to open up a bit and keep advertisers happy....

 

After all, remember, the world is run by Ad .... so let it be iAd!

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post #34 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


Did you mean 'translation'?

once translated from French, traduction means  . . . wait for it . . . translation

post #35 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post
 

once translated from French, traduction means  . . . wait for it . . . translation

It is also valid in English though :

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Traduction

post #36 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chipsy View Post

Apple doesn't sell personal information but here is the thing, neither does Google (no idea about Facebook though). Google certainly keeps track of a lot things, no doubt about it (but read Apple's privacy policy you will be surprised what they collect). Google does create a profile of you (only from things you do when logged in) but this information isn't sold. Targeted advertising is not the same as selling. The advertiser selects a target audience and Google does the targeting (Google determines which ad to show you, at no point does the advertiser get to see personal information).

Regarding whether it is connected to a name. If you are logged in to your Google account, then the things you do are connected to your name. You can see this in Google Dashboard. If you are not logged in it is not. Then it uses cookieID or anonymous identifier to determine which ad to show you. This data is only kept for a certain period (a couple of months). The things you do when logged in are kept for a very long time, but things like searches are user deletable.

Everyone has the choice to use whatever he/she feels most comfortable with. Personally I'm more concerned about actual data brokers who do sell personal information and collect this from all over the internet then I am about Google.


Tell your drivel to your fellow Google sycophants. Google is demonstrably the most amoral major American company today. Anyone who trusts Google with their personal data is a fool.
post #37 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post


Tell your drivel to your fellow Google sycophants. Google is demonstrably the most amoral major American company today. Anyone who trusts Google with their personal data is a fool.

lol because you try to clear up common misconceptions about Google you are a Google sycophant? The second sentence is just pure nonsense (and you probably know it). The third one is easily countered by this: 'anyone who thinks that your data isn't being collected by all kinds of data brokers all over the internet is a fool'. Compared to data brokers Google is a lamb.

post #38 of 90
This is the difference between Apple and Google. Google stuff is free or cheap because they sell info about you that these freebies elicit. You pay more for Apple gear, in part, because you have confidence that Apple will not sell you out.
post #39 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post

once translated from French, traduction means  . . . wait for it . . . translation

The Spanish version is similarly spelled, but you didn't translate from one language to another, you just gave your take on it.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #40 of 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by lukefrench View Post

It is also valid in English though :
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Traduction

Didn't know that, thanks, but you still did not translate from one language to another.
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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