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Facebook to buy messaging app WhatsApp for $16B plus $3B in RSUs - Page 2

post #41 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post


I see comments on the Engadget defending this price saying FB is paying for the users. Even still are whatsapp users really worth $50 a pop?


Funny thing is that some of my friends were using WhatsApp because they hate Facebook.  I'm going to crack up laughing when I tell him the news. :)
 

What's going to happen like everything else in the past, they over-pay for a company, everyone (or most) will jettison the app and move on to the next one.. rinse and repeat.  This deal is going to go south within a year.

post #42 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

FB phone did not work. FB messenger did not work either.   What makes FB think people want their communications to be captured by FB?
glad I never bought into Whatsapp, if I had I'd be finding myself a different way to IM. 

They wrote on their blog the following:

Almost five years ago we started WhatsApp with a simple mission: building a cool product used globally by everybody. Nothing else mattered to us.

Today we are announcing a partnership with Facebook that will allow us to continue on that simple mission. Doing this will give WhatsApp the flexibility to grow and expand, while giving me, Brian, and the rest of our team more time to focus on building a communications service that’s as fast, affordable and personal as possible.

Here’s what will change for you, our users: nothing.

WhatsApp will remain autonomous and operate independently. You can continue to enjoy the service for a nominal fee. You can continue to use WhatsApp no matter where in the world you are, or what smartphone you’re using. And you can still count on absolutely no ads interrupting your communication. There would have been no partnership between our two companies if we had to compromise on the core principles that will always define our company, our vision and our product.

On a personal note, Brian and I couldn’t be more proud to be part of a small team of people who, in just under five years, built a communication service that now supports over 450 million monthly active users worldwide and over 320 million daily active users. They have helped re-define and revolutionize communication for the 21st century, and we couldn’t be more grateful.

Our team has always believed that neither cost and distance should ever prevent people from connecting with their friends and loved ones, and won’t rest until everyone, everywhere is empowered with that opportunity. We want to thank all of our users and everybody in our lives for making this next chapter possible, and for joining us as we continue on this very special journey.
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post #43 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Wouldn't that turn out to be 4 + 12 + 3 = 19?

That's a contingent payment.

 

It really should've valued at 4 + 12 + Call Option Value (of a four-year option with exercise price equal to the vesting price).

post #44 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Facebook has a market cap of $173b for 1.2b users. If Facebook users are worth $144 each and they can monetize 450m WhatsApp users the same way, that would suggest the company is worth $65b to them. 

I think you may be double-counting many hundreds of millions of users.....

post #45 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickFaced View Post
 

What did your friends think the Messages app that comes with the phone did?


They didn't.  In Germany, they were paying for regular text messages.  They weren't using it.  So even when iMessage went mainstream, they didn't know and still continued to not use Messages.

In my experiences both here and (especially) abroad, ignorance of technology is really the norm.  It's why I always tell people here and on other threads that tech people here do not represent the knowledge of the masses.  I spent about 30 minutes showing them all new stuff of iOS7 and other native functionality and they were just in awe at the things we all here take for granted.

To them, it's all about apps.  None of them knew about FaceTime Audio.  Took a few times to explain it to them before it kicked in.

post #46 of 105
The reason why whatsapp is so popular at least here in South America is that from the 40+ contacts that have whatsapp only 3 have iPhones. So it is much more convenient to just use whatsapp with all of them.

If they merge the two message systems and that allows us to send messages to people on Facebook too that would be an improvement.

Other than that I don't really see any positives with this buyout
post #47 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post
 

Really?  Why?

At least Larry Page made the world a better place.  I use Google everyday and I think I'm more knowledgable and effective as a human being because of it. In contrast, fanatic users of Facebook are often worse people because of their Facebook habit.  

I am sure Larry is knowledgeable in your likes / dislikes too and provides you with effective Ads! :p

 

With that said, I fully respect your choice.

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

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....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

Reply
post #48 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post
 

There's another tech stock crash coming...........

 

I'm afraid you are right, Google, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, and Netflix will take tech down.

post #49 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post


Yeah, right. Stock isn't real money.
If you agree, just give me $12B in FB stock. I'm sure FB stockholders won't mind either.

 

Bitcoins?

post #50 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by leavingthebigG View Post
 

PhilBoogie,

 

For me 4 + 12 = 16. It may be different for you.

 

Which part of, "Facebook to buy messaging app WhatsApp for $16B", did you actually miss in the title AND in the article? It does not matter if Facebook is paying $4B in cash and $12B in stock. The amount still adds to $16B.

 

The next time you choose to stupidly respond to one of my posts, don't.

I case someone else doesn't respond to your limited knowledge, you don't know what you don't know. The $12B is stock transfer has not been described, and it would not surprise me if the stock transaction has some restrictions -- such restrictions are typical. The real value at this time is not known.

post #51 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disturbia View Post
 

I trust Zuckerberg more than Page! ;)

That's like saying I'd rather be shot than stabbed ;)

post #52 of 105

I think everybody is missing the point. Simply the original creators of FB are tired of searching/spying two different data centers, so they decided to combine them into one.   The amount of money is irrelevant.

post #53 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post
 

That's like saying I'd rather be shot than stabbed ;)

I hear ya ... what can I say ... I hate google that much!

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

Reply

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

Reply
post #54 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post
 

I think you may be double-counting many hundreds of millions of users.....

 

Not to mention not a single web site I have ever socialized has ever seen a dollar out of my pocket, through any form of advertising.

post #55 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post


You mean the keyword 'including' refers to the later on mentioned $3B in additional stock? Strange way of using words, then again, English is a language I'll never understand properly.
$4B is obviously a ridiculous amount for this service, but I guess the widespread use is what sets it so high. I should've typed the 'only' in italic or something


Gotcha. I just find it repugnant these corporations exist and are ballooning Wall Street who is legally siphoning billions off of these web portal 2.0 sites.

post #56 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I came back from Germany a few weeks ago.  My friends there were all using WhatsApp on their iPhones.  What was funny is that when I explained to them what iMessage does (including FaceTime Audio), they all said they had no idea the iPhone works that way so they all jettisoned WhatsApp.  In addition, I trust Apple to keep my contact info secure versus have some 3rd-party company have access to my contact info.

The problem is iMessage is a closed system with no web, Windows, Android, or Linux client. iMessage is only good if you live in an all Apple world. It's a shame Apple refuses to open their API - I doubt they ever will.
post #57 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonPedro View Post

I think everybody is missing the point. Simply the original creators of FB are tired of searching/spying two different data centers, so they decided to combine them into one.   The amount of money is irrelevant.

Interesting, depending on the details you are referring to. Original creators? Are they not who they seem to be?

Spying? Ordinary Big Data spying, or something extraordinary and hidden? Please divulge.
post #58 of 105
Kai Ryssdal just went ahead on his national radio show "Marketplace" and said we're in a tech bubble.

Edit: corrected typo on old Kai's stellar name.
Edited by Flaneur - 2/19/14 at 6:40pm
post #59 of 105
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post
Kat Ryssdal just went ahead on his national radio show "Marketplace" and said we're in a tech bubble.

 

Hoo… All right: guesses on when it’ll pop? I mean, we know Amazon and Google are the result of the bubble, but popping time, anyone? 2017?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #60 of 105
I seem to remember that the talk of a bubble and the pop were only several months apart last time.

But then I also remember that it was the "election" of the "president" was what ended the party. So you may not want to quote me on this.
post #61 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post


Overrated. Did the Google guy that brokered the Moto acquisition move to Facebook?

LOL, nice comparison. By the time the proof is available, everyone will have forgotten about it.

post #62 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by snapplez View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

I came back from Germany a few weeks ago.  My friends there were all using WhatsApp on their iPhones.  What was funny is that when I explained to them what iMessage does (including FaceTime Audio), they all said they had no idea the iPhone works that way so they all jettisoned WhatsApp.  In addition, I trust Apple to keep my contact info secure versus have some 3rd-party company have access to my contact info.

 It's a shame Apple refuses to open their API - I doubt they ever will.

if someone can figure out how opening up the iMessage API would help Apple's product sales business model then I'm sure they would be all ears.

The whole reason for iMessage's existence is to promote the sales of Apple devices, not to promote iMessage itself. Its about the product, not the service.


Edited by snova - 2/19/14 at 7:02pm
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post #63 of 105

There is another $3 billion reserved in restricted stock, just not part of the initial purchase it seems. $16B + $3B = $19B.

post #64 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

FB phone did not work. FB messenger did not work either.   What makes FB think people want their communications to be captured by FB?
glad I never bought into Whatsapp, if I had I'd be finding myself a different way to IM. 

They wrote on their blog the following:

Almost five years ago we started WhatsApp with a simple mission: building a cool product used globally by everybody. Nothing else mattered to us.

Today we are announcing a partnership with Facebook that will allow us to continue on that simple mission. Doing this will give WhatsApp the flexibility to grow and expand, while giving me, Brian, and the rest of our team more time to focus on building a communications service that’s as fast, affordable and personal as possible.

Here’s what will change for you, our users: nothing.

WhatsApp will remain autonomous and operate independently. You can continue to enjoy the service for a nominal fee. You can continue to use WhatsApp no matter where in the world you are, or what smartphone you’re using. And you can still count on absolutely no ads interrupting your communication. There would have been no partnership between our two companies if we had to compromise on the core principles that will always define our company, our vision and our product.

On a personal note, Brian and I couldn’t be more proud to be part of a small team of people who, in just under five years, built a communication service that now supports over 450 million monthly active users worldwide and over 320 million daily active users. They have helped re-define and revolutionize communication for the 21st century, and we couldn’t be more grateful.

Our team has always believed that neither cost and distance should ever prevent people from connecting with their friends and loved ones, and won’t rest until everyone, everywhere is empowered with that opportunity. We want to thank all of our users and everybody in our lives for making this next chapter possible, and for joining us as we continue on this very special journey.

what exactly do you expect them to write? "We just sold out our ethics for $16B, so run, run away, quickly!!" ?

 

WhatApp was able to grow and be quite successful without Facebook. I don't believe "needed" $16B to make things better and to "partner" with FB. They sold out, cashed in, whatever you want to call it. plain and simple.  Actions speak louder than words, spin this as they like. they sold out their ethics.  You don't accidentally get acquired unless you are willing to sell your control in exchange for a very large check. If they believed in FB and in "partnering", you don't need to give up control and you don't need a big check.  FB could have simply giving them money without acquiring them, or better yet make them a wholly owned subsidiary allowing WhatApp to continue to be self managed. The truth is, FB has no interest in spending $16B on IM without total access to your communications for exploit as they see fit to maximize  return on investment.  Its not a partnership its an acquisition.  Say goodbye to the old boss, hello to the new boss and along with it the FB business model.


Edited by snova - 2/19/14 at 7:46pm
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post #65 of 105

CEO Mark Zuckerberg in a prepared statement. "I've known [WhatsApp founder Jan Koum] for a long time and I'm excited to partner with him and his team to make the world more open and connected."

 

translation key: 

I've known Jan Koum for a long time = Hello, I'm a friend; I come in peace. I'm just like family. 

partner = all the value is in existing user base.. don't freak out and leave or our $16B would have been wasted for nothing.

world more open = we want OPEN access to your information

and connected = and what you say to others

"Building for the future?! They should be running around reacting to the present!" -John Moltz
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post #66 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Once they merge and purge, FB will find out how many Whatsapp users are already FB users.

Yeah there will probably be overlap. If Facebook at least keeps the subscription of $0.99 per year, that'll be a decent amount of revenue. They expect the users to grow to 1 billion soon. $1b in revenue per year from subscriptions plus potential to monetize new contacts on Facebook and vice versa (get Facebook users to subscribe to Whatsapp) doesn't make the purchase price seem too bad.

Zuckerberg talked about the purchase here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/mediatechnologyandtelecoms/digital-media/10650340/Facebook-buys-WhatsApp-Mark-Zuckerberg-explains-why.html

but doesn't really explain much. They're not even going to replace their own messaging apps but run both separately.

I wonder if Google or Yahoo wants to buy one. Someone make Flappy Candy Chat that plays fart noises when you get a message and promise users won't get ads or privacy invasion so teens can feel safe sexting each other and then sell it on to someone who sells ads and invades privacy.

I think that's what these chat apps are mainly for: teens texting each other, not running up huge bills, sending nude pics. The problem with things like Facebook is they get all the family involved. Teens don't want that.

Some people aren't even aware of how much they share online but one bad experience should set them right:



I guess they don't expect strangers to have any reason to look things up but the companies are those strangers. It'll be interesting to see if users drop WhatsApp in large numbers after this takeover.
post #67 of 105
Fortunately there are a lot of alternative apps out there - lots of guys I know are using this one: https://telegram.org/
post #68 of 105

WhatsApp is a beautiful acquisition for Facebook, because WhatsApp won't do diddly-squat until a user gives the app access to their entire contact list.

Suckers! :lol: 

post #69 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie View Post

Read the article; it's only $4B in cash. The other $15B is FB stock.

It's STILL a transfer of $16,000,000,000 of assets.

I think Apple is the only remaining high-flying company with a sound understanding of the value of a Billion Dollars.
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post #70 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post

what exactly do you expect them to write? "We just sold out our ethics for $16B, so run, run away, quickly!!" ?

WhatApp was able to grow and be quite successful without Facebook. I don't believe "needed" $16B to make things better and to "partner" with FB. They sold out, cashed in, whatever you want to call it. plain and simple.  Actions speak louder than words, spin this as they like. they sold out their ethics.  You don't accidentally get acquired unless you are willing to sell your control in exchange for a very large check. If they believed in FB and in "partnering", you don't need to give up control and you don't need a big check.  FB could have simply giving them money without acquiring them, or better yet make them a wholly owned subsidiary allowing WhatApp to continue to be self managed. The truth is, FB has no interest in spending $16B on IM without total access to your communications for exploit as they see fit to maximize  return on investment.  Its not a partnership its an acquisition.  Say goodbye to the old boss, hello to the new boss and along with it the FB business model.

...Ah, yes, THE Facebook business model. Allow me to explain it:
1. Total control by an immature egomaniac.
2. Unexpected changes in privacy settings.
3. Data mining of every status posting you make.
4. Unexpected and unrequested mapping of all of your connections and friends.
5, Unexplained relationship of Facebook users to Facebook management: YOU are its PRODUCT, not its CUSTOMER.
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #71 of 105

DELETE, DELETE, DELETE!

 

​Clear your histories while you still can.  One  DELETE, first things they do is to make  everything permanent.

 

And delete  your accounts as well.

post #72 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Hoo… All right: guesses on when it’ll pop? I mean, we know Amazon and Google are the result of the bubble, but popping time, anyone? 2017?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

I seem to remember that the talk of a bubble and the pop were only several months apart last time.

But then I also remember that it was the "election" of the "president" was what ended the party. So you may not want to quote me on this.

The last "tech" bubble was late in the previous century... What president was that?

I'm inclined to say that we should see a tech bubble "pop" within a year. Goggle is likely to make the biggest "pop" of all. Anyone want to suggest a company that may exceed Goggle's "pop"???
"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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"That (the) world is moving so quickly that iOS is already amongst the older mobile operating systems in active development today." — The Verge
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post #73 of 105
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post
The last "tech" bubble was late in the previous century... What president was that?

 

♪♬ Clint stone! Meet the Clint stone! He doesn’t-live-in-a-country-where-the-stone-is-an-acceptable-unit-of-measure-to-switch-freely-with-the-toooooon!  ♪♬

 
I'm inclined to say that we should see a tech bubble "pop" within a year. Goggle is likely to make the biggest "pop" of all. Anyone want to suggest a company that may exceed Goggle's "pop"??? 

 

Would the length of the last bubble be a metric to figure out how long this one will last?

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #74 of 105

Facebook buys WhatsApp?

 

1. Delete all messages and conversations right now.

2. Deactivate account, preferably before the acquisition process is over.

3. Hahahaha, $19 billions (with a 'b')? hahahahah

post #75 of 105
Originally Posted by crysisftw View Post
3. Hahahaha, $19 billions (with a 'b')? hahahahah

 

Really, it’s becoming quite a lucrative practice to create an “indie” app that involves social interaction. Just make something simple that aggregates a subsection of personal information not yet gathered by The Big Two, sit on your laurels while it grows, and then wait for the buyout. 

 

You’ll become a billionaire and… oh, by the way, I may have just signed this paper officially turning the company’s assets over to you, but it turns out the information we gathered was destroyed in a fire.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #76 of 105
Apple should finally publish the iMessage/FaceTime specs as they originally promised; the reality is there are Android phones, and when faced with the choice of cross-platform protocols or single platform protocol, cross-platform wins due to (quite literally) network effects.
So without open specs that allow third parties to make iMessage/FaceTime compatible apps on other phones, Apple undermines the utility and penetration of their own products.
I keep using Skype and to a lesser degree WhatsApp and Viber because all three allow me to reach friends using a variety of different phones, incl. the iPhone.
The iMessage/FaceTime contacts list is rather short, and the apps only see use in special cases or when I actually send an SMS to a relative stranger which then ocasionally gets converted to an iMessage.
I much rather see iMessage/FaceTime gain more users.
post #77 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfa View Post

Apple should finally publish the iMessage/FaceTime specs as they originally promised; the reality is there are Android phones, and when faced with the choice of cross-platform protocols or single platform protocol, cross-platform wins due to (quite literally) network effects. < , , , >

I'm guessing that Steve didn't think through how long it was going to take to build out a data network capable of handling the traffic of millions of Apple-only FaceTime calls, let alone the traffic of more 100s of millions of Android rabble.

Already, you still can't get Siri to make a call for you on a Friday or Saturday evening. They got a lot of data centers to build and who knows what else before they open up FaceTime.
Edited by Flaneur - 2/20/14 at 2:55am
post #78 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macky the Macky View Post


The last "tech" bubble was late in the previous century... What president was that?

I'll just say it was winter of '99 and a cold wind was blowing from Texas, and someone decided to let the curtain down.
post #79 of 105

JUMP

 

 

THE

 

 

SHARK!

I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
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I have enough money to last the rest of my life. Unless I buy something. - Jackie Mason
Never own anything that poops. - RadarTheKat
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post #80 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by snova View Post
 

what exactly do you expect them to write? "We just sold out our ethics for $16B, so run, run away, quickly!!" ?

 

WhatApp was able to grow and be quite successful without Facebook. I don't believe "needed" $16B to make things better and to "partner" with FB. They sold out, cashed in, whatever you want to call it. plain and simple.  Actions speak louder than words, spin this as they like. they sold out their ethics.  You don't accidentally get acquired unless you are willing to sell your control in exchange for a very large check. If they believed in FB and in "partnering", you don't need to give up control and you don't need a big check.  FB could have simply giving them money without acquiring them, or better yet make them a wholly owned subsidiary allowing WhatApp to continue to be self managed. The truth is, FB has no interest in spending $16B on IM without total access to your communications for exploit as they see fit to maximize  return on investment.  Its not a partnership its an acquisition.  Say goodbye to the old boss, hello to the new boss and along with it the FB business model.

 

Yeah, but $4B (or 16 or 19) is a ridiculous amount of money, especially for this app. The company wouldn't make this much money over the next 10 years - why not sell what you built to someone who overpays by a factor of 10? Capitalize on the stupidity of others. 

 

If I were him, I'd leave it to Zuck and start something else. Or not.

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