or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Google made last-ditch effort to block WhatsApp-Facebook deal, was willing to pay more than $19B
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Google made last-ditch effort to block WhatsApp-Facebook deal, was willing to pay more than $19B

post #1 of 165
Thread Starter 
As talks between Facebook and WhatsApp began to draw to a close, Google Chief Executive Larry Page made a last-ditch effort to block the deal, and was even willing to outdo the $19 billion agreement the messaging app eventually reached with Facebook.

Facebook WhatsApp


Additional inside details on the Facebook-WhatsApp deal were revealed on Thursday by The Information, which cited three unnamed sources involved with the deal. Those people reportedly said that Google was willing to top Facebook's $19 billion deal, as the search giant was apparently extremely eager to bring WhatsApp under its own umbrella.

Page also made a last-minute effort to WhatsApp Chief Executive Jan Koum, offering him the ability to keep his company independent and continue competing with Facebook while using Google's deep pockets.

The sales pitch by Page wasn't enough, as WhatsApp officials reportedly felt that it was Facebook, not Google, that would allow them to operate more independently. WhatsApp executives also reportedly felt they had more of a "shared vision" with Facebook than Google.

Facebook Chief Executive Mark Zuckerberg's own pitch to WhatsApp included offering Koum a seat on his company's board of directors. Zuckerberg also reportedly told WhatsApp that he was interested in diversifying his company's business model, which currently relies almost entirely on advertising. WhatsApp charges users 99 cents per year to access its messaging services.

The talks with both companies apparently left officials at WhatsApp feeling as though Google was only interested in their company in order to keep it out of the hands of Facebook.

The new details suggest that Google upped its offer for WhatsApp after it learned how much Facebook would eventually pay for the startup. Another report from earlier Thursday claimed that Google had bid $10 billion for the company.

Google was also said to have made an "odd" offer to WhatsApp, paying as much as millions of dollars just for the right to be notified of if and when it entered into acquisition talks with other companies. The so-called "right of notice" offer to WhatsApp was allegedly made months ago, but was rejected by the service.

Nearly a year ago, Google was rumored to be well into negotiations with WhatsApp, and was allegedly considering a $1 billion price tag for the cross-platform messaging app. At the time it was claimed that the WhatsApp team was playing "hardball" in negotiations with Google.

Facebook announced on Wednesday that it will buy WhatsApp for $16 billion in initial cash and stock, plus $3 billion provisioned for restricted stock units. The deal breaks down to about $4 billion in cash and $12 billion worth of Facebook shares.

"WhatsApp is on a path to connect 1 billion people. The services that reach that milestone are all incredibly valuable," Zuckerberg said in a statement. "I've known [WhatsApp founder Koum] for a long time and I'm excited to partner with him and his team to make the world more open and connected."
post #2 of 165

Do we really need so many articles about something uninteresting and irrelevant?

post #3 of 165
WhatsAppInsider.

1wink.gif
Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
Reply
Apple managed the astonishing feat of getting the equivalent of a personal computer into the hands of everybody from eight to eighty year olds, and did so while providing absolutely no instructions...
Reply
post #4 of 165
Jan Koum famously does not like advertising so Google would not be a good fit. What happens with Facebook in terms of advertising and user info is another story, but it couldn't have been a worse fit than Google WhatsApp. Bottom line - Nice Payday!
post #5 of 165
Tech Bubble 2.0 is in full effect. Spend money now boys, because your stock is going to crash in the next 18 months when everyone figures out that you don't have a product, you don't have adequate revenue, and you sure as hell don't have a P/E ratio that makes institutional investors' socks roll up and down after the honeymoon is over.

Today's $billion stock swaps are tomorrow's $billion write-downs. Enjoy it while you can.
post #6 of 165
I always feel like an idiot when I read about these massive buyouts because I honestly can't comprehend exactly what about WhatsApp is worth even $1 billion, much less $16 or $19 billion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

Do we really need so many articles about something uninteresting and irrelevant?

Such a large purchase price and a competition for it by two of the most well known internet-based companies today makes that news I want to hear about even though I have never had nor expect to have any interest in the app itself.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #7 of 165
Hey let hope this keeps happens and before you know these company will look into the check book and begin wondering why it has a negative balance.

I do not care how they spin this, the ROI or NPV on this purchase is negative in any time period. Most time you want the time horizon to be in the 7 to 10 yrs time period, but in the internet age we talking 3 to 5 yrs if you investment can not turn positive in that time frame it is not worth doing.

Also keep in mind Steve was whispering in Marks ear , and Mark is just another Steve follower who is helping to wage war on Google. As well as Larry form Oracle, and M$, Google is being battled on many fronts, Steve know how to wage a war,
Edited by Maestro64 - 2/21/14 at 5:54am
post #8 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always feel like an idiot when I read about these massive buyouts because I honestly can't comprehend exactly what about WhatsApp is worth even $1 billion, much less $16 or $19 billion.

It has nothing to do with your intelligence, it's your age.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #9 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always feel like an idiot when I read about these massive buyouts because I honestly can't comprehend exactly what about WhatsApp is worth even $1 billion, much less $16 or $19 billion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

Do we really need so many articles about something uninteresting and irrelevant?

Such a large purchase price and a competition for it by two of the most well known internet-based companies today makes that news I want to hear about even though I have never had nor expect to have any interest in the app itself.

Agree.

The Facebook Android app has permission to read sms. If they can also have similar permissions to WhatsApp messages, how do you value That long term?
post #10 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It has nothing to do with your intelligence, it's your age.

I still feel like I should be able to see how something can valuable to others even if I don't personally have an interest in it. I know how Barbies and Transformer toys can hold value and I know how these compressive MMORPG and FPS games are profitable and popular even though I don't engage in them myself.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #11 of 165
Apple should just buy it for $20 billion and then shut it down as a big F U to Googs and Facebook. 1smile.gif.
post #12 of 165

Apple should buy Facebook and shutdown it down for the good of humanity!

post #13 of 165

Sequoia Capital should be irked about that alleged higher figure coming from Google...

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #14 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always feel like an idiot when I read about these massive buyouts because I honestly can't comprehend exactly what about WhatsApp is worth even $1 billion, much less $16 or $19 billion.
I have to say I struggle with this too. Perhaps the millions and millions of users of WhatsApp is not your typical Facebook user and that Facebook sees great value in the ability to be in direct contact with this user base. Who knows what's Facebook's plans are for the future but I have to agree $16 billion is an insane amount of money. In fact, the amount of money is so large the whole transaction seems suspicious. How can the personal information of two hundred million 'chatters' be worth that much?. How exactly will Facebook extract that much money from these users in the future? Perhaps these users have a legitimate claim to at least 50% of the money.
post #15 of 165
This is a big opportunity for Apple.
iMessage for Android would literally be a killer app.
post #16 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

This is a big opportunity for Apple.
iMessage for Android would literally be a killer app.

 

I agree. Apple did that with iTunes and Windows & the iPad took off!

I don't know what is stopping them from expanding iMessage.
FaceTime would also be great to use with other phones, but I can see where Apple would have problems getting it to work on all of the possible configurations of Android.

post #17 of 165

How is this worth that kind of money, and how can Facebook not bring similar functionality for much, much, much less? 

post #18 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

It has nothing to do with your intelligence, it's your age.
That is so insightful and analytical... Now i understand why it is wirth 19 billion.
You my friend are brilliant !
post #19 of 165
Quote:
Google was also said to have made an "odd" offer to WhatsApp, paying as much as millions of dollars just for the right to be notified of if and when it entered into acquisition talks with other companies. The so-called "right of notice" offer to WhatsApp was allegedly made months ago, but was rejected by the service.

 

If they really wanted WA, then why didn't Goog just offer up the $16B back then?  Now it just looks like they got scooped.  Again.

post #20 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I still feel like I should be able to see how something can valuable to others even if I don't personally have an interest in it. I know how Barbies and Transformer toys can hold value and I know how these compressive MMORPG and FPS games are profitable and popular even though I don't engage in them myself.

You've mentioned things that were popular when we were younger, and easy to see the value. It seems like every time I find out whatever is popular these days it's already on the way down and the younger generation has moved on to something else.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #21 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo007 View Post

That is so insightful and analytical... Now i understand why it is wirth 19 billion.
You my friend are brilliant !

Well thank you. I do get the occasional epiphany lol.gif
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #22 of 165

~~The sales pitch by Page wasn't enough ....

 

Obviously ... because everyone knows Page and his google are full of pure shit!

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

Reply

....the lack of properly optimized apps is one of the reasons "why the experience on Android tablets is so crappy".

Tim Cook ~ The Wall Street Journal - February 7, 2014

Inside Google! 

Reply
post #23 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


It has nothing to do with your intelligence, it's your age.

 

Horse crap. It has everything to do with this generation's blind ignorance to Social networking. The monetization fantasy they plan on about having some mythical 500 million new users to suck dry is truly mythical mathematics.

 

When FB takes a real dump and Google ultimately drops their Thermostat investment people will down play both, when it's a case of a truly ignorant group of young kids getting to play big boy in the SV sandbox post 2000.

post #24 of 165

So Sorry, Googly Goo.  Better luck next time (not).

 

Google is a lot more evil than Facebook.  I'm happy to know they lost out!

post #25 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Apple should just buy it for $20 billion and then shut it down as a big F U to Googs and Facebook. 1smile.gif.

Nice one lol! Facebook and Google why ......Apple because i can..   Facebook and Google but you don't even need it but we do....Apple i know 

 

 

Reply

 

 

Reply
post #26 of 165

This is very significant news in the internet spying world.

Google got beaten out on this deal by a much friendlier deal.

 

Both FaceBook and Google knew WhatsUP here; the access to a huge number of users spread around the world.

Google knows too much about me and Facebook think they know about me, but I've been managing to give them a slip.

I wasn't  into WhatsApp, so neither would have learned more about me there.

 

I'm sure many WhatsApp users wouldn't have been happy either way.

They'll move on to the next independent What-ever App until Google takes it over, in attempt to catch up with Facebook's user inventory.

post #27 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowitall View Post

This is a big opportunity for Apple.
iMessage for Android would literally be a killer app.

Yeah, it would kill Apple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DipDog3 View Post

I agree. Apple did that with iTunes and Windows & the iPad took off!
I don't know what is stopping them from expanding iMessage.
Different scenarios. iTunes for windows happened to sell more iPods. iMessage for android does nothing for Apple's bottom line.
post #28 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Horse crap. It has everything to do with this generation's blind ignorance to Social networking. The monetization fantasy they plan on about having some mythical 500 million new users to suck dry is truly mythical mathematics.

When FB takes a real dump and Google ultimately drops their Thermostat investment people will down play both, when it's a case of a truly ignorant group of young kids getting to play big boy in the SV sandbox post 2000.

Somebody is making a lot of money using those 'mythical mathematics'.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #29 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


I still feel like I should be able to see how something can valuable to others even if I don't personally have an interest in it. I know how Barbies and Transformer toys can hold value and I know how these compressive MMORPG and FPS games are profitable and popular even though I don't engage in them myself.


Join the club.  I just can't see the math working here to justify such the huge price tag.  Many of my friends overseas use WhatsApp, even though I never heard of it until recently.  The ironic part is that my European friends all use iPhones.  So when I was there and they were trying to convince me to use WhatsApp, I turned the table around on them and showed them what iMessage, FaceTime Audio does.  They were in complete awe as to their iPhone having that native ability.  To them, it's all about apps.

Most people are ignorant about what their iPhones can do.  I must have spent an hour with them going through all the iOS7 stuff and general concepts.

They all jettisoned WhatsApp after that.

I like WhatsApp mantra of charging $.99 cents to use it, be add-free, and they seem to be very good about privacy.  It's great for developing countries like India that have very expensive phone plans and use very cheap junk Android phones.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
 

 

Horse crap. It has everything to do with this generation's blind ignorance to Social networking. The monetization fantasy they plan on about having some mythical 500 million new users to suck dry is truly mythical mathematics.

 

When FB takes a real dump and Google ultimately drops their Thermostat investment people will down play both, when it's a case of a truly ignorant group of young kids getting to play big boy in the SV sandbox post 2000.


I'm in this area of thinking too.  Then mentality of these people throwing so much money into these black holes just reeks of adolescents with money-management problems.  They have so much of it right now, and they became so rich at so young an age, they don't have the mental maturity to stop for a moment and think long-term about deals like this and whether there's value for the money.

I think $16B is an absolute waste of money considering how much WhatsApp is making right now.  I read an article that the founder said they made about $20m last year and that's their first profit I think.  The math just doesn't add up.

post #30 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Yeah, it would kill Apple.

How would it kill Apple? I remember clearly how many here wanted BBM for iOS. How is the OP's idea so far fetched?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #31 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

How would it kill Apple? I remember clearly how many here wanted BBM for iOS. How is the OP's idea so far fetched?
Ok. It wouldn't kill Apple but what benefit is it to Apple to have iMessage on a Android?
post #32 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always feel like an idiot when I read about these massive buyouts because I honestly can't comprehend exactly what about WhatsApp is worth even $1 billion, much less $16 or $19 billion.

It's a subscription app with over 450 million users, $0.99 per year after the first year. It'll have some running costs but there's only 55 staff.



WhatsApp has a steep growth curve. This will follow the adoption rate of smart devices so it'll slow down with them too but it has room to more than double again.

The reason for Facebook's price is clearer now after this Google bid. I figured they'd have wanted in on this, they're always trying to buy into social media. At least now I know a starting price to sell them my Flappy Candy Chat app for.

I would have said $5b was a more realistic amount and $10b should have sealed the deal for Google (just like ~$3b did for Nest) but clearly Facebook decided they wanted it no matter what.
post #33 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I always feel like an idiot when I read about these massive buyouts because I honestly can't comprehend exactly what about WhatsApp is worth even $1 billion, much less $16 or $19 billion.

It has nothing to do with your intelligence, it's your age.

Age may have something to do with 'intelligence'...

post #34 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It's a subscription app with over 450 million users, $0.99 per year after the first year. It'll have some running costs but there's only 55 staff.



WhatsApp has a steep growth curve. This will follow the adoption rate of smart devices so it'll slow down with them too but it has room to more than double again.

How many of their 400M+ users are already Facebook users, do you think?

 

The market and the analysts –perhaps even you -- appear to be treating this number as 0%.

post #35 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Age may have something to do with 'intelligence'...

So you're saying as Soli gets older he's getting dumber? lol.gif

I agree, and we all know that Soli is far from being a' idiot'. The younger generation migrate to a service/app faster than those of us in our 30s and up ever did.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #36 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by MachineShedFred View Post

Tech Bubble 2.0 is in full effect. Spend money now boys, because your stock is going to crash in the next 18 months when everyone figures out that you don't have a product, you don't have adequate revenue, and you sure as hell don't have a P/E ratio that makes institutional investors' socks roll up and down after the honeymoon is over.

Today's $billion stock swaps are tomorrow's $billion write-downs. Enjoy it while you can.

 

This. 

 

On the one hand, this buyout price is greatly exaggerated because it's mostly paid for with super inflated facebook shares (funny money). On the other hand, $4 billion in cash is still far more than this company is likely to ever be really worth. 

 

The value that Apple gets for its acquisitions is pretty impressive compared to deals like this. Heck, I bet the inflation-adjusted cumulative price of every company Apple has ever bought is noticeably less than the price of this one company.  

post #37 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by jungmark View Post

Ok. It wouldn't kill Apple but what benefit is it to Apple to have iMessage on a Android?

It wouldn't benefit Apple, but it would benefit its users, and isn't Apple all about the 'user experience'? Most people have friends and family with a mixed bag of devices. A cross platform iMessage would dwarf WhatsApp in users.
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
post #38 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Age may have something to do with 'intelligence'...

There is also this…

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #39 of 165
So glad that Apple is above participating in these insane bidding wars. I'd lose all faith in the company if they blew $20B on such a purchase.
post #40 of 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkLite View Post

Do we really need so many articles about something uninteresting and irrelevant?
It got you to post. 1smile.gif
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Google made last-ditch effort to block WhatsApp-Facebook deal, was willing to pay more than $19B