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Apple releases OS X 10.9.2 with fix for SSL security flaw, plus new FaceTime Audio - Page 4

post #121 of 186
Why not ditch gmail? It's crap! Don't blame Mail for crappy email service from Google.
post #122 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie Isaacks View Post

Why not ditch gmail? It's crap! Don't blame Mail for crappy email service from Google.

 

BS. Gmail is one of the most reliable services out there.

post #123 of 186

Just in case there were others out there that have had issues with unread counts not showing, I found a solution that seems to work for me. Basically it requires you to remove your mail accounts, rename some system folders (to force new ones to get created) and then re-create your mail accounts. My mail is still syncing, but my unread counts are back again and accurate:

 

Hold down the option key and go to Go > Library > Mail and rename the Mail folder Mail.old

 

Again, hold down the option key and go to Go > Library > Containers > com.apple.mail and rename that folder com.apple.mail.old

 

And again, hold down the option key and go to Go > Library > Containers > com.apple.MailServiceAgent and rename that folder com.apple.MailServiceAgent.old

 

In Mail, recreate your email account.

post #124 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

If his speakers worked it would interfere with the NSA listening through his microphone.

Actually... I guess I am safe there too, as my bloody microphone and headphones DON'T WORK EITHER! After @ 4hrs of online chat with Apple Support and an extended phone call w/ them, they have finally, reluctantly come to the conclusion that the problem most likely is a matter of the new 10.9.2 update conflicting with the Sound drivers/firmware of my Late '08 MacBookPro. Their "solution" is to wait until some undetermined future date when a newer OS update will come along and magically undo the damage done by this update. Reinstalling Mavericks, zapping PRAM, resetting the Power manager, etc, etc, none of that did a bit of good.

Oddly enough, I DO get sound out through Bluetooth when I pair it to the earbud I use with my iPhone. Different channel?

Not holding my breath on the magic update's arrival...
-eb
post #125 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebergh View Post

Actually... I guess I am safe there too, as my bloody microphone and headphones DON'T WORK EITHER! After @ 4hrs of online chat with Apple Support and an extended phone call w/ them, they have finally, reluctantly come to the conclusion that the problem most likely is a matter of the new 10.9.2 update conflicting with the Sound drivers/firmware of my Late '08 MacBookPro. Their "solution" is to wait until some undetermined future date when a newer OS update will come along and magically undo the damage done by this update. Reinstalling Mavericks, zapping PRAM, resetting the Power manager, etc, etc, none of that did a bit of good.

Oddly enough, I DO get sound out through Bluetooth when I pair it to the earbud I use with my iPhone. Different channel?

Not holding my breath on the magic update's arrival…
-eb

Wow! I see you're in either California or Canada. Any chance you can make it to an Apple Store to get assistance that is better than a call center and potentially get 10.9.1 installed?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #126 of 186
Yeah, thought about that - it would mean having them wipe the drive, ( a 1 -T, w/ 2 partitions) and then reloading it all over again... + being gone a week. Probably what I will have to do though, since it will likely be a long time before a fix comes through for such an old machine. Although, I see on the Apple Support board that a 2011 Mac Mini and a 2013 MacBookAir are also complaining of the same issue tonight... maybe more widespread than they think.
-eb
post #127 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Can you post link to at least one of those ads?

 

I know that right now they suggest that with Mac OS, "Security was the first thought.  Not an afterthought."

http://www.apple.com/osx/what-is/

 

Some people might have a heyday with that one.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #128 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post
 

 

Not a single word of what you have written disproves his statement in any respect.


Correct - not a single word taken by itself disproves his statement.  Rather, it is a group of words that states in very clear language: "It doesn't get PC viruses", further stating directly under that text that a Mac has "built-in defenses in OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part"  Very black and white.  One cannot successfully make the argument that Apple is stating the Mac isn't susceptible to "PC viruses" simply because it's not running Windows.  They call out the fact that the Mac will "keep you safe, without any work on your part".  Just read the next column in the ad: "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing"

 

If they weren't (incorrectly) promoting the fact that Macs don't get viruses, then why did they change the ad later, leaving themselves lots of wiggle room with new wording that doesn't use the word "virus" and clarifies that a Mac will "help keep you safe"?  There is a very large difference between:

 

"It doesn’t get PC viruses."

"A Mac isn't susceptible to the the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers.  That’s thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part."

(the first ad at http://web.archive.org/web/20120329193342/http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/)

 

and
 

"It helps keep you safe"

"Built-in defenses in OS X help keep you safe from unknowingly downloading malicious software on your Mac"

(the later ad which can be seen at http://web.archive.org/web/20120811220303/http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/)

 


Edited by runbuh - 2/26/14 at 6:01am
post #129 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by smalM View Post
 

Obviously Apple doesn't take OS X seriously anymore.

To wait several days for the 10.9.2 release to fix a severe bug like this - I'm gobsmacked how non-professional Apple's behaviour in this case is.

I was wondering about that too.

The only thing I can think of is that 2 releases in a short span of time is to much hassle.

post #130 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Howie Isaacks View Post

Why not ditch gmail? It's crap! Don't blame Mail for crappy email service from Google.

 

Your right, but some of us have gmail at work.

post #131 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

This is very basic and it calls into question not just the coding style which lead to this ( not just the gotos but the way it would succeed, ie actually just clean up when sopposedly "failing") and lack of code reviews and proper compiler warnings - I mean that's true but people are human - but the testing. The sad truth is nobody in Apple tested a site with a bad cert, nobody wrote those test scripts. That's the fundamental test for ssl security. The goto fail website produced a test in 10 minutes. What is going on?

 

My thoughts exactly. This could be an incident, but even that is worrisome.

post #132 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR View Post

This update put a spring in my step and resolved an issue for me where, if I gambled, I would lose large amounts of money.

Highly recommended.

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. 1smile.gif

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #133 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I know that right now they suggest that with Mac OS, "Security was the first thought.  Not an afterthought."
http://www.apple.com/osx/what-is/

Some people might have a heyday with that one.

Making a mistake doesn't mean their statement is untrue.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #134 of 186
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post
Correct - not a single word taken by itself disproves his statement.  Rather, it is a group of words

 

Talk about splitting hairs. :no:

 
…states in very clear language:  t doesnt get PC viruses”,

 

Which. does. not. disprove. his. statement.

 

0+0 is still 0. 0*0 is still 0.

 
One cannot successfully make the argument that Apple is stating the Mac isn't susceptible to "PC viruses" simply because it's not running Windows.

 

Before we have to call you a fool, do you mean to say that this cannot be inferred from only the information he presented, only the information Apple presented, or only all information available to us?

 

Because the above is wrong; I just want to know how wrong it is before saying so.

 

If they werent (incorrectly) promoting the fact that Macs dont get viruses

 

Because they weren’t doing that. Reading the image would show you.

 

…then why did they change the ad later, leaving themselves lots of wiggle room with new wording that doesn’t use the word “virus”…

 

Probably because not all malware is viruses, given that it happened right around the time that there was a new trojan for OS X (patched a week later).

 

The weakest link in the chain is you. Apple can protect you from your own idiocy only so well. There will always be people who install anything from anywhere at any time. Gatekeeper and… whatever the automated thing is. I forget the name. The thing that catches these files in the background… already do 90% of the work for you. In their minds, the rest being your fault isn’t worth them wasting the time being sued over.

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #135 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

Correct - not a single word taken by itself disproves his statement. Rather, it is a group of words that states in very clear language: "It doesn't get PC viruses", further stating directly under that text that a Mac has "built-in defenses in OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part" Very black and white. One cannot successfully make the argument that Apple is stating the Mac isn't susceptible to "PC viruses" simply because it's not running Windows. They call out the fact that the Mac will "keep you safe, without any work on your part". Just read the next column in the ad: "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing"

If they weren't (incorrectly) promoting the fact that Macs don't get viruses, then why did they change the ad later, leaving themselves lots of wiggle room with new wording that doesn't use the word "virus" and clarifies that a Mac will "help keep you safe"? There is a very large difference between:

"It doesn’t get PC viruses."
"A Mac isn't susceptible to the the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers. That’s thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part."
(the first ad at http://web.archive.org/web/20120329193342/http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/)

and

"It helps keep you safe"
"Built-in defenses in OS X help keep you safe from unknowingly downloading malicious software on your Mac"
(the later ad which can be seen at http://web.archive.org/web/20120811220303/http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/)

This is kindergarten logic here. They don't get Windows PC viruses and Windows don't get *nix or Android viruses. It's not that hard. They also don't say "keep you safe," in regards to being susceptible to malware, as you claim, but rather "help keep you safe." They clearly have added many aspects to the OS to help in that regard. Again, they have never started nor suggested that OS X was infallible or incapable of ever getting a virus and you original assertion is flawed on every level.
Edited by SolipsismX - 2/26/14 at 8:05am

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #136 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimk69 View Post

Why can't they fix this freakin gmail problem already. There's been like what, 3 or 4 so called mail fix updates and still doesn't work. Uhg.

I find iCloud to work well in Mavericks. I suggest you switch from gmail to iCloud.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #137 of 186

Installed the update, now Safari crashes every time I close a tab, then crashreport starts running, taking up 110% of the CPU time.

Turned crashreport off, Safari still crashes when I close a tab. I have to drag a tab to another monitor so it becomes its own window and then close the window. No one else seems to be suffering this problem.

post #138 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebergh View Post

I just installed the update onto my MacBook Pro… and now the speakers do NOT work! Still get sound via bluetooth, but no sound out via the speakers at all… geez.
-e

Don't know if this is of any help but I looked into my Library folder at /Preferences/Audio and found two sets of .plist files: one pair apparently renamed and the other pair created today just at the time I upgraded.

 

com.apple.audio.DeviceSettings.plist 

com.apple.audio.DeviceSettings.plist~orig

com.apple.audio.SystemSettings.plist

com.apple.audio.SystemSettings.plist~orig

 

Maybe you or someone smarter than either of us can figure out if your problem involves these files.

 

Something else to try is downloading the 10.9.2 Combo update (OSXUpdCombo10.9.2.dmg) and installing again with it. I've found that installing updates with the Combo works better than just the normal update. Fewer problems.

"You can't fall off the floor"   From 128k Mac to 8GB MBP

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"You can't fall off the floor"   From 128k Mac to 8GB MBP

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post #139 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post


Correct - not a single word taken by itself disproves his statement.  Rather, it is a group of words that states in very clear language: "It doesn't get PC viruses", further stating directly under that text that a Mac has "built-in defenses in OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part"  Very black and white.  One cannot successfully make the argument that Apple is stating the Mac isn't susceptible to "PC viruses" simply because it's not running Windows.  They call out the fact that the Mac will "keep you safe, without any work on your part".  Just read the next column in the ad: "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing"

If they weren't (incorrectly) promoting the fact that Macs don't get viruses, then why did they change the ad later, leaving themselves lots of wiggle room with new wording that doesn't use the word "virus" and clarifies that a Mac will "help keep you safe"?  There is a very large difference between:

"It doesn’t get PC viruses."



"A Mac isn't susceptible to the the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers.  That’s thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part."



(the first ad at http://web.archive.org/web/20120329193342/http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/)




and

 

"It helps keep you safe"



"Built-in defenses in OS X help keep you safe from unknowingly downloading malicious software on your Mac"



(the later ad which can be seen at http://web.archive.org/web/20120811220303/http://www.apple.com/why-mac/better-os/)



 



One of Apple's lawyers will probably have advised them that the wording of 'It doesn't get PC viruses' was too loose, because some hapless soul might sue Apple when they received a PC virus in their email, even though it wouldn't run; they still 'got' a PC virus.

Edit: and, of course, running Windows in Bootcamp could lead to a virus.

In fact, neither of the quoted Apple statements says that Apple is immune to viruses, nor that it is impossible to get a virus on a Mac.
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
post #140 of 186
Mail keeps counting exactly as bad as before. Intelligent folders do not count their contents well since Mavericks
post #141 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


I find iCloud to work well in Mavericks. I suggest you switch from gmail to iCloud.

Yeah, I also use an iCloud account and at one time forwarded the gmail to it but there are some personal reasons

why it didn't work out the way I would have liked it to. I hate google now a days but the gmail incorporates really 

well with everything I have going right now. I can't even remember why I didn't like to forward it to iCloud, probably 

something petty but I like the shit to work the way its supposed to. Anyway, Im very happy to say that it looks like 

gmail is keeping everything in sync with mac mail, web mail and devices finally.  Im a happy camper. 

Thank You Apple....

post #142 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


I find iCloud to work well in Mavericks. I suggest you switch from gmail to iCloud.

Spoke to soon. Have about 10 emails that were deleted elsewhere yesterday and today but their still

in the mammal inbox. not the all mail folder but inbox. It just irritates the hell out of me.

post #143 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. 1smile.gif

Actually, so would I.

😝
post #144 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That scene was posted to this forum a couple weeks ago. It was the first time I had ever seen a clip from that show and makes me want to watch the show after I finish up with my current season of shows.

in my opinion that was good in my opinion I would like to watch that again what show is this from
post #145 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimk69 View Post
 

Spoke to soon. Have about 10 emails that were deleted elsewhere yesterday and today but their still

in the mammal inbox. not the all mail folder but inbox. It just irritates the hell out of me.

There are mailbox behavior settings, they might be out of sync between your various iterations? I had noticed items piling up in one account and it turned out I had a settings issue.... If it were convenient perhaps a visit to an Apple store to get it sorted out?

post #146 of 186
Patched just in time to switch focus to a new security bypass, a recipe for "Fried Mac"

IMO there's just not going to be a way to make internet connected computers bullet-proof for consumers. Now enterprise systems being targeted with unique, sophisticated and unrecoverable attacks.
http://www.networkworld.com/news/2014/022614-rsa-apple-attack-279212.html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_daily_pm_2014-02-26
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #147 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimk69 View Post

Spoke to soon. Have about 10 emails that were deleted elsewhere yesterday and today but their still
in the mammal inbox. not the all mail folder but inbox. It just irritates the hell out of me.

Then take the plunge!
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
Reply
"If the young are not initiated into the village, they will burn it down just to feel its warmth."
- African proverb
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post #148 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


This is kindergarten logic here. They don't get Windows PC viruses and Windows don't get *nix or Android viruses. It's not that hard. They also don't say "keep you safe," in regards to being susceptible to malware, as you claim, but rather "help keep you safe." They clearly have added many aspects to the OS to help in that regard. Again, they have never started nor suggested that OS X was infallible or incapable of ever getting a virus and you original assertion is flawed on every level.


Show me in this wording below, which is a direct cut and paste from the old ad, where they use the word "help" in the manner you suggest.  It isn't there.   Did you even read it?

 

It doesn’t get PC viruses.

A Mac isn’t susceptible to the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers. That’s thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part.

 

Safeguard your data. By doing nothing.

With virtually no effort on your part, OS X defends against viruses and other malicious applications, or malware. For example, it thwarts hackers through a technique called “sandboxing” — restricting what actions programs can perform on your Mac, what files they can access, and what other programs they can launch. With FileVault 2, your data is safe and secure — even if it falls into the wrong hands. FileVault 2 encrypts the entire drive on your Mac, protecting your data with XTS-AESW 128 encryption. Initial encryption is fast and unobtrusive. It can also encrypt any removable drive, helping you secure Time Machine backups or other external drives with ease. Other automatic security features include Library Randomization, which prevents malicious commands from finding their targets, and Execute Disable, which protects the memory in your Mac from attacks.

 

Download with peace of mind.

Innocent-looking files downloaded over the Internet may contain dangerous malware in disguise. That’s why files you download using Safari, Mail, and iChat are screened to determine if they contain applications. If they do, OS X alerts you, then warns you the first time you open one.

 

Stay up to date, automatically.

When a potential security threat arises, Apple responds quickly by providing software updates and security enhancements you can download automatically and install with a click. So you’re not tasked with tracking down updates yourself and installing all of them one by one.

post #149 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin Frost View Post


One of Apple's lawyers will probably have advised them that the wording of 'It doesn't get PC viruses' was too loose, because some hapless soul might sue Apple when they received a PC virus in their email, even though it wouldn't run; they still 'got' a PC virus.

Edit: and, of course, running Windows in Bootcamp could lead to a virus.

In fact, neither of the quoted Apple statements says that Apple is immune to viruses, nor that it is impossible to get a virus on a Mac.


Hmmm...

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/08/12/03/apple_pulls_support_note_recommending_antivirus_software

 

Apple pulls support note recommending antivirus software

By AppleInsider Staff

Apple has removed a widely publicized support document from its website that encouraged Mac OS X users to install antivirus software, explaining that its operating system was designed with safeguards to protect against malicious attacks on its own.

The recommendation drew widespread attention given that the Mac maker has been critical in its television advertisements of Windows users' need to stock up on virus detection software while its own computers remain immune to viral threats.

post #150 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post


Kindergarten must be where you left your brain.  Show me in this wording below, which is a direct cut and paste from the old ad, where they use the word "help" in the manner you suggest.  It isn't there.   Did you even read it?

It doesn’t get PC viruses.



A Mac isn’t susceptible to the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers. That’s thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part.

Safeguard your data. By doing nothing.



With virtually no effort on your part, OS X defends against viruses and other malicious applications, or malware. For example, it thwarts hackers through a technique called “sandboxing” — restricting what actions programs can perform on your Mac, what files they can access, and what other programs they can launch. With FileVault 2, your data is safe and secure — even if it falls into the wrong hands. FileVault 2 encrypts the entire drive on your Mac, protecting your data with XTS-AESW 128 encryption. Initial encryption is fast and unobtrusive. It can also encrypt any removable drive, helping you secure Time Machine backups or other external drives with ease. Other automatic security features include Library Randomization, which prevents malicious commands from finding their targets, and Execute Disable, which protects the memory in your Mac from attacks.

Download with peace of mind.



Innocent-looking files downloaded over the Internet may contain dangerous malware in disguise. That’s why files you download using Safari, Mail, and iChat are screened to determine if they contain applications. If they do, OS X alerts you, then warns you the first time you open one.

Stay up to date, automatically.



When a potential security threat arises, Apple responds quickly by providing software updates and security enhancements you can download automatically and install with a click. So you’re not tasked with tracking down updates yourself and installing all of them one by one.

1) I was using help in regards to your previous post but they do use help in the same way in the sentence "helping you secure Time Machine backups."

2) Read what they wrote. This is marketing speak but it's all truthful. If, however, you think Apple lied then you have a case against a company with deep pockets. Good luck¡

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #151 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) I was using help in regards to your previous post but they do use help in the same way in the sentence "helping you secure Time Machine backups."

2) Read what they wrote. This is marketing speak but it's all truthful. If, however, you think Apple lied then you have a case against a company with deep pockets. Good luck¡

1 - There is no mention of using "help" to avoid viruses  (back to the original point of all this)

2 - "It doesn't get PC viruses" and"Safeguard your data.  By doing nothing" --  That's not marketing speak.  That's bullshit and very misleading to the general public.. 

 

So - let's get all the way back to the original point.  Apple ran ads marketing the fact that the Mac didn't get viruses.  Period.  Even AI agrees, and AI is never wrong.  :)

 

http://appleinsider.com/articles/08/12/03/apple_pulls_support_note_recommending_antivirus_software

 

Apple pulls support note recommending antivirus software

By AppleInsider Staff

Apple has removed a widely publicized support document from its website that encouraged Mac OS X users to install antivirus software, explaining that its operating system was designed with safeguards to protect against malicious attacks on its own.

The recommendation drew widespread attention given that the Mac maker has been critical in its television advertisements of Windows users' need to stock up on virus detection software while its own computers remain immune to viral threats.


Edited by runbuh - 2/27/14 at 5:07am
post #152 of 186

Nope, I had to time machine back to a previous save before 10.9.2

Nothing was really working correctly. Many programs didn't open at all, some didn't function and some crashed. An SSL security issue doesn't outweigh an unusable iMac for me.

I'll try with the next update.

post #153 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

1 - There is no mention of using "help" to avoid viruses  (back to the original point of all this)
2 - "It doesn't get PC viruses" and"Safeguard your data.  By doing nothing" --  That's not marketing speak.  That's bullshit and very misleading to the general public.. 

So - let's get all the way back to the original point.  Apple ran ads marketing the fact that the Mac didn't get viruses.  Period.  Even AI agrees, and AI is never wrong.  1smile.gif

1) You posted where it said "help" earlier. Did you just make that up?

2) Doesn't get PC viruses which is followed up by an explanation that Mac OS can't get Windows viruses is confusing to you?

3) Still waiting for you to show me evidence where Apple said that Mac OS can't get any viruses. Note that Macs got plenty of viruses pre-OS X.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

Reply
post #154 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


1) You posted where it said "help" earlier. Did you just make that up?

2) Doesn't get PC viruses which is followed up by an explanation that Mac OS can't get Windows viruses is confusing to you?

3) Still waiting for you to show me evidence where Apple said that Mac OS can't get any viruses. Note that Macs got plenty of viruses pre-OS X.

1 - I'll try and clarify.  

I posted two links to the Internet Archive's capture of Apple's "Why You'll Love a Mac" web ad.  The first version has the very clear, unambigious, wording that states "It doesn’t get PC viruses.  A Mac isn’t susceptible to the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers. That’s thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part." and "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing.  With virtually no effort on your part, OS X defends against viruses and other malicious applications, or malware.".  In this ad, there is no wording like Mac OS X will "help keep you safe" or "help defend".  It contains clear and simple wording that Mac OS X will "keep you safe, without any work on your part".   All of this wording is in the section titled "It doesn't PC viruses". 

 

The second link was to the Internet Archive's capture of that same URL *after* Apple changed the wording due to the Flashback trojan that hit over 600,000 machines.  The clear and unambiguous wording has been softened to state that "It helps keep you safe.  Built-in defenses in OS X help keep you safe from unknowingly downloading malicious software on your Mac.".  Also gone is the wording about "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing.".  Now it states "Safety. Built right in.  We designed OS X with powerful, advanced technologies that work together to constantly scrutinize, encrypt, update, and ultimately keep your Mac safer".  Now instead of "keep you safe", the ad states that Mac OS X "helps keep you safe" and will "keep your Mac safer".

 

2 - From the original web ad, read the wording again. The wording states "It doesn’t get PC viruses.  A Mac isn’t susceptible to the thousands of viruses plaguing Windows-based computers. That’s thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part."  Are you saying that when the ad states that "It doesn't get PC viruses", Apple is referring solely to the "viruses plaguing Windows-based computers"?  If so, I have to disagree.  If this was only about Windows viruses, then why did Apple further state in the same sentence that it doesn't get "PC" viruses "thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part."?  Also, as we all know, there have been many viruses that infect both Windows PC's and Mac PC's (same virus infect both types of PC's, without the Mac running Windows via Fusion, Parallels, or Bootcamp).

 

3 - Please read the first version of the ad one, more time, with a consumer eye.  The ad uses very clear wording about "built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part" and "Safeguard your data. By doing nothing.  With virtually no effort on your part, OS X defends against viruses and other malicious applications, or malware."   Where does it say in the ad that a Mac can get viruses?  Everything in the "It doesn't get PC viruses" says that Mac OS X will "keep you safe".  Also, here's two of the most blatant examples from the Mac vs. PC ads

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eEG5LVXdKo:

 

At about  29:23:

Megan: "I just need something that works without crashing, or viruses, or a ton of headaches"

PC: "Did you say no viruses, or crashes, or headaches?"

Megan: "Yeah"

PC: "Ugh!  She's all yours, Mac."

Mac: "Hi, how are you"

Megan: "Good"

Mac: "I'm a Mac"

Megan: "I'm a Megan"

(end of commercial)

 

At about 30:55:

Lady: "And I want one that just works without thousands of viruses and tons of headaches"

Top of the Line PC: "Look, Lady, any PC you get is gonna have those problems"

Lady: "Well, I think I'll go with Mac"

Mac: "Great"

Top of the Line PC: "When you're, uh, ready to compromise, you call me"

(end of commercial)

 

 

post #155 of 186
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

It contains clear and simple wording that Mac OS X will "keep you safe, without any work on your part".

 

Yep. Because it does. Your point?

 

Now instead of "keep you safe", the ad states that Mac OS X "helps keep you safe" and will "keep your Mac safer".

 

This is going to be the greatest windup ever.

 
Are you saying that when the ad states that "It doesn't get PC viruses", Apple is referring solely to the "viruses plaguing Windows-based computers"?

 

YES. WE ARE. BECAUSE THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT IT MEANS.

 
If so, I have to disagree.

 

Too bad! Apple doesn’t.

 
If this was only about Windows viruses, then why did Apple further state in the same sentence that it doesn't get "PC" viruses "thanks to built-in defenses in Mac OS X that keep you safe, without any work on your part."?

 

Is this a question that needs to be asked of another human being? Is this a question that does not inherently resolve itself within the confines of a single brain? Shouldn’t the answer be readily apparent, given the content and order of the words within, is what I’m saying.

 
…there have been many viruses that infect both…

 

Nope.™

 

Where does it say in the ad that a Mac can get viruses?

 

No. Sorry. Not how this works. Where does that paragraph say that it CANNOT?

 

“Nope.” is a trademark of Jim Dalrymple and may not be used without the express written consent of Jim Dalrymple.

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #156 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post


At about 30:55:
Lady: "And I want one that just works without thousands of viruses and tons of headaches"
Top of the Line PC: "Look, Lady, any PC you get is gonna have those problems"
Lady: "Well, I think I'll go with Mac"
Mac: "Great"
Top of the Line PC: "When you're, uh, ready to compromise, you call me"
(end of commercial)


Ugh! I really don't mean to be offensive here but this is likely talking to a child so I'll make this brief.

1) You can't quantify "tons of headaches" This was added to the sentence using the conjunction and not or for a reason.

2) What thousands of viruses does Mac OS X have?

You not understanding the words used in advertising does mean Apple is lying to you. That said, you could have taken the stand post BootCamp that Apple should use the word Mac without specifically mentioning Mac OS X since someone really stupid might assume that running Windows on a Mac also means they aren't going to get "thousands of viruses" but as stated already you can't quantify "tons of headaches." Have you seriously not ever considered why they would use a unit of weight to describe a headache? Have you not considered why they didn't say "without ever getting a headache"? This is very easy stuff.
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/1/14 at 11:18am

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post #157 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post


Ugh! I really don't mean to be offensive here but this is likely talking to a child so I'll make this brief.

1) You can't quantify "tons of headaches" This was added to the sentence using the conjunction and not or for a reason.

2) What thousands of viruses does Mac OS X have?

You not understanding the words used in advertising does mean Apple is lying to you. That said, you could have taken the stand post BootCamp that Apple should use the word Mac without specifically mentioning Mac OS X since someone really stupid might assume that running Windows on a Mac also means they aren't going to get "thousands of viruses" but as stated already you can't quantify "tons of headaches." Have you seriously not ever considered why they would use a unit of weight to describe a headache? Have you not considered why they didn't say "without ever getting a headache"? This is very easy stuff.

1 - Read the wording from the commercial again.  Specific words in a specific order.

Megan: "I just need something that works without crashing, or viruses, or a ton of headaches"
PC: "Did you say no viruses, or crashes, or headaches?"
Megan: "Yeah"
PC: "Ugh! She's all yours, Mac."

 

2 - I don't see any lists out there that allow one to filter out a technical "virus" from other forms of malware, like trojans.  The only "easy" list I can find from a quick search is the Sophos list of 15,200("osx" search) or 19,200 ("mac" search) instances of malware.  However, most of the returned results appear to be trojans, not viruses.

http://www.sophos.com/en-us/search-results.aspx?page=2&refine=1a1e9ea6979a493dba64e1b2ced03044&search=osx

http://www.sophos.com/en-us/search-results.aspx?search=mac&refine=1a1e9ea6979a493dba64e1b2ced03044


Edited by runbuh - 3/1/14 at 8:22am
post #158 of 186
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post
Ugh! I really don't mean to be offensive here but this is likely talking to a child so I'll make this brief.

 

See, that’s what we feel, too. So somebody’s doing something wrong somewhere.

 

If you don’t understand how specific words in a specific order in a sentence form a meaning, we’re never going to get anywhere with this. Let’s fix that first.

“The only thing more insecure than Android is its userbase.” – Can’t Remember

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post #159 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post

At about 30:55:

Lady: "And I want one that just works without thousands of viruses and tons of headaches"
Top of the Line PC: "Look, Lady, any PC you get is gonna have those problems"
Lady: "Well, I think I'll go with Mac"
Mac: "Great"
Top of the Line PC: "When you're, uh, ready to compromise, you call me"
(end of commercial)

If you think you have such a great case against Apple lying unendlessly to the public why don't you sue them? Why hasn't anyone else sued them?
Edited by SolipsismX - 3/1/14 at 11:22am

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #160 of 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by runbuh View Post


Let's just stop here and realize you're talking about an ad campaign that started 2006 and ended 2009. So your complaints cover ad that are over four years old!

So maybe they could have been worded better. But the communication point remains that the problems on Macs are dwarfed by the problems on Windows.

While you're at it, are you going to sue Microsoft because Surface tablets don't actually make good dance props?
Edited by JeffDM - 3/1/14 at 9:29am
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