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New iPod will not succeed...

post #1 of 53
3/20/02 at 8:11pm
Thread Starter 
anywhere close to it's predecessor. I'm guessing the majority of people who are in line to buy an iPod was more concerned with price rather than storage space.

Yes, the 10gig version will satisfy many who just need to have 2000 songs at their fingertips.

But, how many more iPods do you think Apple would have sold had they lowered the current version to $299? A lot more than those forking out $499 for the new one!
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post #2 of 53
3/20/02 at 8:13pm
yeah, i would have liked to see the prices drop on the 5Gb model. i would have been nice to find the 10Gb model for $399, and the 5Gb model for $299. oh well.
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post #3 of 53
3/20/02 at 8:18pm
I totally agree with you. $499 for an MP3 player is ridiculous. Who really needs 2000 songs with them all the time? I thought 1000 was pushing it.
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post #4 of 53
3/20/02 at 8:20pm
[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>anywhere close to it's predecessor. I'm guessing the majority of people who are in line to buy an iPod was more concerned with price rather than storage space.

Yes, the 10gig version will satisfy many who just need to have 2000 songs at their fingertips.

But, how many more iPods do you think Apple would have sold had they lowered the current version to $299? A lot more than those forking out $499 for the new one!</strong><hr></blockquote>


as much as i'd love to ignore this post (as it should be)...

don't you think the prices will drop in time? like, as soon as apple has recouped the R&D costs, and/or the drives going into the units come down in price?

quit yer bitchin'
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post #5 of 53
3/20/02 at 8:21pm
actually, i have seen a few people on these boards aching for a 10 gig ipod. though, i doubt many of them will get it at the $500 price
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post #6 of 53
3/20/02 at 8:23pm
apple will most likely be in the red this quarter. they can't afford to cut prices. even though more people would buy them at $300, it would only hurt them in the short term, which seems pretty bad as it is
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post #7 of 53
3/20/02 at 8:50pm
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by concentricity:
as much as i'd love to ignore this post (as it should be)...
<hr></blockquote>

Yet somehow you can't

[quote] don't you think the prices will drop in time? like, as soon as apple has recouped the R&D costs, and/or the drives going into the units come down in price?

quit yer bitchin' <hr></blockquote>

You miss the point. They would probably sell a ton more at $299 and make more money than selling fewer at $499.

And it ain't bitchin, it's debatin'
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post #8 of 53
3/20/02 at 9:13pm
[quote]Originally posted by Max8319:
<strong>apple will most likely be in the red this quarter. they can't afford to cut prices. even though more people would buy them at $300, it would only hurt them in the short term, which seems pretty bad as it is</strong><hr></blockquote>

cough... bullshit... cough


499 took me completely off guard. I've been waiting for a 10GB iPod or a 299 5GB ipod since the iPod was announced.

I may get the 10GB though. I want it so bad but I don't really want to spend so damn much
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post #9 of 53
3/20/02 at 9:22pm
[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>

You miss the point. They would probably sell a ton more at $299 and make more money than selling fewer at $499.

And it ain't bitchin, it's debatin' </strong><hr></blockquote>

If they sell it for less than it costs them, they'll bleed money, and the more it sells the more they'll bleed. I don't know for a cold fact that the 5GB iPod costs Apple more than $300 a pop, but it wouldn't surprise me.

The pricing tells me that, contrary to all the people who've always said the price was a deal-breaker, the iPod is still a strong seller, and the 10GB version is at a premium because sales of the 5GB version aren't flagging.

Apple is consciously pursuing a strategy of increasing market share at the expense of their profit margins. Fred Anderson came right out and said so, and if the "5 down, 95 to go" retail campaign isn't proof enough, the razor-thin margins on the new iMac should be. They've never made that much money on the iPod, as far as I can tell, and if they're not lowering the price it's probably because they can't lower it enough to significantly impact the number of units sold, and keep it profitable.

It'll probably continue selling well for as long as it has no serious competition, and so I imagine its price point will hold pretty well. There are players with bigger hard drives and more features, but they're still nowhere near as usable.
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post #10 of 53
3/20/02 at 9:40pm
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong>

If they sell it for less than it costs them, they'll bleed money, and the more it sells the more they'll bleed. I don't know for a cold fact that the 5GB iPod costs Apple more than $300 a pop, but it wouldn't surprise me.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's all speculation unless we know what it costs Apple. While the push for greater market share is a goal (although I'm not sure how seriously they're pursuing it), I don't think they'd venture into something without a reasonalble margin let alone a loss.

It would have been a highly risky move to market a $400 unproven item and take a hit on each one sold.
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post #11 of 53
3/20/02 at 9:58pm
Ooh the logic (aside from Amorph's) is astounding in here!

You can get your same damned iPod for the same damned price if you like or you can spend $100 more for 5g extra of space.

2000 is not too much. As far as I'm concerned, it's not enough. I have 18.5g of mp3s and a ton of CDs I still haven't ripped.

This 10g iPod is seriously making my Visa run and hide from me.
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post #12 of 53
3/20/02 at 10:12pm
Exactly.

"You mean I can double the hard drive size in an iPod for an extra $100? F uck you Apple!!!"

Jesus.

Don't like it? Don't buy the damn thing.
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post #13 of 53
3/20/02 at 11:16pm
Toshiba is still selling the 5GB drive used in the iPod for $399. You can't expect Apple to lower its prices if their suppliers don't lower theres. Seems Toshiba has a bit of monoply at the moment on drives of this capacity that are small enough for the iPod. Hopefully IBM will increase the capacity of their microdrives to give them some competition soon.
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post #14 of 53
3/20/02 at 11:37pm
With $50 custom laser engraving these things will be flying off the shelves!!!

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post #15 of 53
3/20/02 at 11:37pm
This is not what I expected. I expected the 10GB version to be $449 and the 5GB would drop in price to $349.
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post #16 of 53
3/20/02 at 11:49pm
[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>I totally agree with you. $499 for an MP3 player is ridiculous. Who really needs 2000 songs with them all the time? I thought 1000 was pushing it.</strong><hr></blockquote>



I totally agree with you. $499 for an MP3 player and organizer is ridiculous. Who really needs 1000 songs, several divx movies, all their personal files, a bootable disk with both os 9 and X with superfast firewire connectivity and their software (or compusa's ) with them all the time? I thought 1000 was pushing it.

Don't sell it short, it's a lot of money but it is far more than simply an mp3 player.

[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: janitor ]</p>
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post #17 of 53
3/21/02 at 1:01am
[quote]originally posted by raiger77

Toshiba is still selling the 5GB drive used in the iPod for $399.<hr></blockquote>

I believe Toshiba wouldn't like Apple to sell the iPod for a price lower than the drive alone. Sure, Apple doesn't pay $399 but it is still a good price.
You can pay $399 for a 1.8" HD or pay the same for a 1.8" HD plus firewire connector plus mp3 player.
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post #18 of 53
3/21/02 at 3:25am
i wish i could justify an ipod purchase, even though i dont really need one... a lower price might have helped, but i understand apple's postition.
would ya believe, i tried dropping my old discman a few times so i could have an excuse to get an ipod, but damn that sucka still works. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
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post #19 of 53
3/21/02 at 4:09am
KrazyFool,

I know you didn't mean that they wouldactually be flying off the shelves because of the custom engraving, but what you said is true.

The iPod ended up something that people would buy for themselves. No one could justify buying it as a gift for someone else. Now it is perfect for parents to give at graduations, bar mitzvas, any special occasion where a gift is a good idea.

It actually does increase the marked potential of the iPod significantly.

pi
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post #20 of 53
3/21/02 at 5:02am
What about a 2 or 3 Gig one???
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post #21 of 53
3/21/02 at 6:13am
Sorry satchmo, but your logic is flawed.

The 10GB not only will succeed, it already has succeeded. How? Simple. It's what manufacturers call 'commonality.'

the 10GB iPod is 99.9% a copy of the original iPod, so it is already bought and paid for on Apple's books. That .01% difference is just the HD, which costs no more to install and whose wholesale price is more than offset by the $100 extra the consumer pays.

Essentially, as long as the 5GB models are selling well (which they are) then every 10GB model Apple sells is pure profit.

Until the prices drop I doubt the 10GB will sell nearly as well as the 5GB, but Apple only has to sell one for that model to be a success.
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post #22 of 53
3/21/02 at 6:35am
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Michael Grey:
<strong>Sorry satchmo, but your logic is flawed.

The 10GB not only will succeed, it already has succeeded. How? Simple. It's what manufacturers call 'commonality.'

the 10GB iPod is 99.9% a copy of the original iPod, so it is already bought and paid for on Apple's books. That .01% difference is just the HD, which costs no more to install and whose wholesale price is more than offset by the $100 extra the consumer pays.

Essentially, as long as the 5GB models are selling well (which they are) then every 10GB model Apple sells is pure profit.

Until the prices drop I doubt the 10GB will sell nearly as well as the 5GB, but Apple only has to sell one for that model to be a success.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, I understand. But you're splitting hairs here. Sure, the R&D on the 10GB has been absorbed by the initial 5GB.
My point is that the actual numbers sold won't be as great, which I think you agree.

I also find it funny how easily offended some people get over a simple opinion. I believe it's too expensive and no, I won't buy one....others may .
Folks, chill out.
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post #23 of 53
3/21/02 at 6:42am
Well, I'm not buying one, but not because of the price. It's simple supply and demand:

As long as apple can sell them at $399, why drop the price? The demand is there. Who cares if some can't afford it--enough people can, and that's the real issue.

Same with the iMac. They can't fill all of the orders at $1,799, so kick up the price to curb demand. None of this should be surprising.

It's not about profitability after they break-even. It's about matching demand with supply.

[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: gordy ]</p>
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post #24 of 53
3/21/02 at 6:55am
I was really hoping for a price drop on the 5 GB model to $299 or $349.

I guess I don't have to wait any longer and can take the plunge. I'm going to look at the 10 GB, but I will probably get the 5 GB version.
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post #25 of 53
3/21/02 at 7:25am
For what it's worth, I posted a rant on here shorty after the iPod's debut that it was too expensive to ever sell in quantity. Boy was I wrong.

I think it's funny how we all expected the price scale to slide when Apple came out with a bigger iPod. Kinda how we figured the prices would slide on displays if Apple ever came out with a bigger ACD.
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post #26 of 53
3/21/02 at 9:52am
From an actual iPod owner (me) -
After having used this thing for almost 3 months now (xmas gift), were I to lose or break my iPod today, I would not hesitate to buy a 10gig tomorrow. Without a doubt, this is one of the coolest things I own, I use it every day and $100 extra to double the HD space seems like a steal to me.

You're free to wait as long as you want for the prices to drop of course, but trust me - it's already worth it right now!

rr.
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post #27 of 53
3/21/02 at 10:02am
Oh lord. Here we go again. "iPod is too expensive!" "It will never sell!" "Apple is going to lose its ass on this!"

We heard all about this when the first iPod came out, and within 2 months Apple had sold over 125,000 of the things. By now I'm sure that number is well over 250,000. There are actually a lot of people who want a 10 GB iPod, and if you look at the iPod sales so far, people will pay for it, even if it "looks" expensive. You have to realize the technology you are getting at the size and weight of the iPod.
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post #28 of 53
3/21/02 at 10:43am
Check out <a href="http://www.shoptoshiba.com." target="_blank">www.shoptoshiba.com.</a> The previous poster is correct. The 5 gig drive is still $399 USD without a microprocessor, firewire interface, LCD display and software. Apple can really not be making much on these things at these prices. We should all thank Apple for making the iPod. If you want a tiny little 5 or 10 gig HD and have a firewire port then ipod is great. Plus it has a built in user interface, plays MP3s and now all ipod owners can upgrade the ipod to be a contact manager as well. That was a software upgrade that works on all ipods sold to date as well. Cudos Apple.
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post #29 of 53
3/21/02 at 11:14am
All of this conjecture about whether or not the new iPod will succeed or flop will be decided with time.
The market will dictate this.
If you want it, buy it. If you think it's not worth the price, don't.
It's really that simple.
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post #30 of 53
3/21/02 at 11:55am
[quote]Originally posted by Pikachu Invasion:
<strong>KrazyFool,

I know you didn't mean that they wouldactually be flying off the shelves because of the custom engraving, but what you said is true.

The iPod ended up something that people would buy for themselves. No one could justify buying it as a gift for someone else. Now it is perfect for parents to give at graduations, bar mitzvas, any special occasion where a gift is a good idea.

It actually does increase the marked potential of the iPod significantly.

pi</strong><hr></blockquote>

I love the idea just $50 is little much, maybe by the letter?
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post #31 of 53
3/21/02 at 12:19pm
I have to comment here that I too was a little perturbed when I read about the 10 gig iPod. I've had my iPod for only a month or so. In that time, I've grown to love it, and wonder how I ever lived without it. An example: I took a trip recently that encompassed 4 days of driving out of 8 days away (36 hours/2500 miles). Thank goodness for the 986 songs on my iPod !! The only thing I really could have used in addition was a car power adapter, a problem I've recently corrected.

I have about 100 CD's. I've ripped most of them to iTunes, and created some custom CD's and a few mp3 disks. But by far and away, I love my iPod. The only thing I wish I had was enough space to have my entire CD collection on there (besides my 500 or so downloaded mp3s).

Enter the 10 gig iPod. I want one. But I can't own 2. So here's my solution - someone want my 5 gig for $300 ? Its only flaw is a few fingerprints, and they'll wipe off

Of course, I may just wait for the 20 gig model !!
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post #32 of 53
3/21/02 at 12:47pm
My 2 pennies... I got my wife an ipod for valentines. She looked a little confused at first, but I told her it was all I could think of that she will actually use and appreciate. Now she hasn't put the thing down at all. It is alway with her, she plugs it in to her speakers at work and listens all day. she uses it when she works out and we use it on road trips. I have asked to borrow it a couple of times, but sometimes I think it would just be easier to ask for a divorce, she does not want to let it go;she is afraid I might hurt it. Anyway, I MUST get my own(enter 10 gig ipod). hehe, now I will finally have my very own to snuggle up to, I just hope the wife doesn't take my 10 gigger....wait, hehe, I'll just get it engraved. Thanks apple!
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post #33 of 53
3/21/02 at 1:28pm
[quote]Originally posted by satchmo:
<strong>anywhere close to it's predecessor. I'm guessing the majority of people who are in line to buy an iPod was more concerned with price rather than storage space.

Yes, the 10gig version will satisfy many who just need to have 2000 songs at their fingertips.

But, how many more iPods do you think Apple would have sold had they lowered the current version to $299? A lot more than those forking out $499 for the new one!</strong><hr></blockquote>

I personally think that a 5 gig version had everything I needed. If they just dropped the price, I would have bought one. I'm serious, I just need it to fit my tight college budget. 10gigs is just overkill, and the new price firmly places it way outside of my price range.

Consumer devices are supposed to be inexpensive. That's what I want.

[ 03-21-2002: Message edited by: Metacom ]</p>
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post #34 of 53
3/21/02 at 3:14pm
I wish they were less expensive as well, but I have to think that they are priced with a pretty thin margin. I just can't see Exec's saying "let's price it stratospherically and really pi$$ people off!!"

I do like that they have the contact info there- it almost justifies it for me as a work related device. If it had calendar functionality I might even be able to write it off.... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
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post #35 of 53
3/21/02 at 4:26pm
[quote]Originally posted by ricRocket:
<strong>From an actual iPod owner (me) -
After having used this thing for almost 3 months now (xmas gift), were I to lose or break my iPod today, I would not hesitate to buy a 10gig tomorrow. Without a doubt, this is one of the coolest things I own, I use it every day and $100 extra to double the HD space seems like a steal to me.

You're free to wait as long as you want for the prices to drop of course, but trust me - it's already worth it right now!

rr.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed!
I bought mine the DAY they were available to be sold (through the EDU store, so i paid $400 (taxes) total...) because I KNEW that Apple would not drop the price for a while... I got a good 6 months or so of use and now I am debating whether or not to sell my 5 gigger to get a 10 gigger, or just wait for a 20 gig so I can engrave it... and if i could sell my iPod for $300, then I would get the 10 gigger.... we will see...
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post #36 of 53
3/22/02 at 10:27am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
[quote]Originally posted by gafferino:
<strong>Check out <a href="http://www.shoptoshiba.com." target="_blank">www.shoptoshiba.com.</a> The previous poster is correct. The 5 gig drive is still $399 USD without a microprocessor, firewire interface, LCD display and software.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Or <a href="http://store.yahoo.com/smartdiskstore/noname.html" target="_blank">$199.95</a> with firewire and enclosure.

I´m in the "Its worth that and people want it at that price so let them sell it at any price they want" but we can´t blame it on the HD anymore.

Apple computers and iPods etc. is luxury items so I say let them charge whatever they want. Its housing, food and education that everybody should be able to have. Not Apple computers.
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post #37 of 53
3/22/02 at 10:58am
[quote]Originally posted by Anders:
<strong>

Or <a href="http://store.yahoo.com/smartdiskstore/noname.html" target="_blank">$199.95</a> with firewire and enclosure.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

rather false: that's a run-of-the-mill notebook drive, not the 1.8" diameter drive that is in the iPod...
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post #38 of 53
3/22/02 at 11:12am
  • Anders
  • Feared and Biased Moderator
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>

rather false: that's a run-of-the-mill notebook drive, not the 1.8" diameter drive that is in the iPod...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Its the exact same drive as in the 5GB iPod
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post #39 of 53
3/23/02 at 2:38pm
[quote]Originally posted by Jonathan:
<strong>

rather false: that's a run-of-the-mill notebook drive, not the 1.8" diameter drive that is in the iPod...</strong><hr></blockquote>

ah.... jonathon is wrong! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
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post #40 of 53
3/23/02 at 5:28pm
Find me documentation that it's the Toshiba 1.8" drive that's in the iPod.

I'm very sure that it's a normal laptop drive.
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